tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post37919299322682379..comments2024-03-28T23:35:27.197-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Things That Make You Go, Hmm...Melissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger83125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-2705291988334647312015-09-15T11:56:42.584-07:002015-09-15T11:56:42.584-07:00Response to North Seattle:
NYC has by far the lar...Response to North Seattle:<br /><br />NYC has by far the largest inventory of public housing in the US. There is a smaller, but still substantial inventory of privately-owned, rent-stabilized apartments.<br /><br />More context:<br /><br />Most folks in NYC:<br /><br />(a) Don't live in Manhattan;<br />(b) Don't live in the new apartments and pricey sub-areas that get all the press.<br /><br />The 9% differential sounds reasonable to me.Joe Wolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747791661117554332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63446344800994702722015-09-14T21:00:10.682-07:002015-09-14T21:00:10.682-07:00Well, I'm no one to say I know. I do have one ...Well, I'm no one to say I know. I do have one teacher friend whose sister works in nyc and she's paid over $100,000. Ed said that was due to cost of living allowances. But I'm no expert. So much goes into the calculation. Why would Boston be so much higher paying that nyc?<br /><br />Check this out for 2015: http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/2712AB02-A1EF-4CE2-B879-33241B7AFFB5/0/TeacherSCHEDULEMAY12015Corrected.pdf<br /><br />http://jd2718.org/the-new-uft-contract/new-uft-nyc-doe-teacher-pay-scale-salary-charts/<br /><br />This appears to be equivalent to our base pay schedule. The second charte shows extra money for length of service but I can't figure out how it is calculated.nnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39915559457846070642015-09-14T17:30:55.562-07:002015-09-14T17:30:55.562-07:00That COL calculator looks so wildly inaccurate tho...That COL calculator looks so wildly inaccurate though. I am not that familiar with Boston, but looking at NYC (where we recently moved from), it says the COL is only 9% higher there. Which. Ha. With state and local taxes there, a 9% increase in salary at our family's level would be basically a net decrease. Here we can afford a fairly spacious 3 bedroom house in a nice neighborhood with good schools (but certainly not the $1M+ houses or highest end areas). In a similar commute/area of the city there we'd be spending more of our take-home pay on a 2 bedroom. <br /><br />Of course, a single data point (Seattle to Boston in this case) is never sufficient for a solid comparison. So going further, teacher portal.com says the average teacher salary in NYC is $72k and starting salary is $44k. DC, $69k (indeed.com); $75k San Francisco. Looking at that, it looks like Seattle teachers have it pretty good to average.<br /><br />North SeattleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83335748522488608382015-09-14T15:20:21.996-07:002015-09-14T15:20:21.996-07:00@Joe
management salaries went through the roof sta...@Joe<br />management salaries went through the roof starting in the eighties. And now we have polarization up the yin yang. Why do you think so many socialist/democratic socialists are gaining popularity. Using current management pay scales may cease to be a problem as unions become stronger again. I noticed in the news today there is quite a resurgence of union activity. Thank goodness. You are in a social service industry and your pay is going to suffer a bit just like ours does except our suffering has become exorbitant. <br /><br />If I read your email correctly and the $82,000 figure is correct, Boston teachers are paid much more than Seattle teachers. Is that a correct analysis? I know we don't know what goes into Boston wage scale so perhaps we can't answer that question. Still . . . nnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57456982811482838792015-09-14T12:44:25.778-07:002015-09-14T12:44:25.778-07:00On a couple of things:
City-to-city cost of livin...On a couple of things:<br /><br />City-to-city cost of living comparisons.<br /><br />When I was in the job-hunting process that brought me to SPS I did some research into the various online "calculators". The most useful one IMHO linked to below. It is city-specific (many of the others are metro-specific). It also tells you why a city is more expensive (or not) ... housing, transportation etc.<br /><br />http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/<br /><br />Using the Boston <-> Seattle discussion upthread as an example, and the SPS teacher salary average of ~$60K as the Seattle salary benchmark I received the following output.<br /><br />"A salary of $60,000 in Seattle, Washington should increase to $62,489 in Boston, Massachusetts (to maintain the same standard of living).<br /><br />Boston is 4% more expensive than Seattle. Utilities are the biggest factor in the cost of living difference. Utilities are 40% more expensive in Boston."<br /><br />Table below benchmarks the cost of different major household budget categories, with 100 = US average.<br /><br /> Seattle Boston<br />Overall 154.3 160.7<br />Food 107.7 116.5<br />Housing 252.4 239.6<br />Util 92 129<br />Trans 105.7 108.4<br />Health 118.5 126.6<br />Misc 110.3 136<br /><br />On SPS salaries and broadcasting of same. Please note that this is my personal position, period.<br /><br />I am fine with the publication of SPS staff salaries - they are public information, after all. If the purpose of doing so is to incense the public (I'm not saying it is) ... well my guess is that that goal may come up a little short.<br /><br />In 2015 Seattle there are many, many folks paid over 100K/year. I won't go as far as to say it's the new normal, but an "OMG! $100K ?!?" narrative isn't going to bring out the pitchforks and torches.<br /><br />In the context of my office: The going salary for my planning positions in other area institutions - the City, the County, the Port, the UW - is more like *my* salary. And the going rate for my position is $20-25K/year more than I make now.<br /><br />I absolutely think teachers deserve better compensation. Hopefully that was understood as a given.<br /><br />Joe Wolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747791661117554332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77099988829400211402015-09-14T09:13:13.602-07:002015-09-14T09:13:13.602-07:00Thanks, mirmac1. Friends of Ingraham Board has dr...Thanks, mirmac1. Friends of Ingraham Board has drafted a letter to the Supe and Board and that is our first bullet point, but it was difficult for us to discern from what has been posted where they were on those negotiations.<br /><br /><i>• SPS must provide adequate staffing ratios for ESA and Special Education staff. Given that the District is currently under sanction from the Office of the Superintendent of Public Instruction and under investigation by the Office of Civil Rights for violating equal opportunity for students with disabilities, it is unconscionable to even consider increasing educator and service provider caseloads. </i>Maureennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-78269044820887206012015-09-14T08:47:22.086-07:002015-09-14T08:47:22.086-07:00Maureen, as far as I can tell SpEd ratios are stil...Maureen, as far as I can tell SpEd ratios are still on the sacrificial altar - to be used as a bargaining chip by both sides. Many parents have written to the board, superintendent and SEA protesting the cynical bartering of our students' education. The district's proposed ratio of 15:1:3 for high school students in the mandated lest-restrictive environment is untenable.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76958979639990780482015-09-14T00:44:17.592-07:002015-09-14T00:44:17.592-07:00Could someone please address the following issue:
...Could someone please address the following issue:<br />Secretaries will be greatly impacted by students being in school an additional half hour.<br />The office calms down once the students have left for the day, and that time is used to work on the many projects we have that are time sensitive.<br />Has anyone thought about compensating secretaries not just teachers for this additional burden?????Fairness for allhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09658177803747929987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30919785402138796892015-09-14T00:36:13.701-07:002015-09-14T00:36:13.701-07:00Obviously the system is broken since all administr...Obviously the system is broken since all administrators are not incompetent nor lacking concern for the success of the district, teachers and students. Assuming administration is failing is likely an indicator of a failed state. In our case, it's ensured by a lack of funding. Levies are necessary for operations? Fundraisers supplant state funding for missing teachers? Poor areas simply go without? It's a screwed up system that needs to change.<br /><br />Let's stop pointing the finger at the district and the teachers and point it where it belongs. At the legislature who's primary duty is to properly fund education. There's a reason the court is penalizing the state for not funding education properly. Let's work together to solve that problem instead of fighting over available scraps.<br /><br />Concerned ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-74010343649095421892015-09-14T00:25:53.759-07:002015-09-14T00:25:53.759-07:00I find it entertaining and a bit disturbing readin...I find it entertaining and a bit disturbing reading the posts on the negotiator's pay. In 14 years of observing both teachers and administrators at Seattle schools, it clear they all work hard but administrators are often charged with matching stringent, arcane requirements with inadequate budgets. I would loathe to take on that kind of pressure personally and would never wish what they endure on anyone.<br /><br />I'm for paying teachers as much as possible, we need excellent teachers in every classroom. We also need effective administrative staff overseeing the proper functioning of an enterprise equal to a medium-sized business (one that serves 53,000 customers, requiring several levels of management). These people need to be compensated well or we'll lose them just like we lose good teachers to competitive school districts. I didn't see anyone mention these folks work year round, not 180 days. <br /><br />If we're going to make comparisons let's at least make them fair comparisons, please.<br /><br />Concerned Parent<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-73727368368127523962015-09-13T23:46:21.466-07:002015-09-13T23:46:21.466-07:00Reposting for Anonymous (pick a name or you will b...Reposting for Anonymous (pick a name or you will be deleted.)<br /><br />Anonymous said...<br />I find it entertaining and a bit disturbing reading the posts on the negotiator's pay. In 14 years of observing both teachers and administrators at Seattle schools, it clear they all work hard but administrators are often charged with matching stringent, arcane requirements with inadequate budgets. I would loathe to take on that kind of pressure personally and would never wish what they endure on anyone.<br /><br />I'm for paying teachers as much as possible, we need excellent teachers in every classroom. We also need effective administrative staff overseeing the proper functioning of an enterprise equal to a medium-sized business (one that serves 53,000 customers, requiring several levels of management). These people need to be compensated well or we'll lose them just like we lose good teachers to competitive school districts. I didn't see anyone mention these folks work year round, not 180 days. <br /><br />If we're going to make comparisons let's at least make them fair comparisons, please.<br /><br />9/13/15, 7:42 PMMaureennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89853992174831128922015-09-13T20:57:56.764-07:002015-09-13T20:57:56.764-07:00SEA/WEA are not very skilled at communications. If...SEA/WEA are not very skilled at communications. If they were, we'd have beaten I-1240 when it was on the ballot, and we'd already have funded the McCleary decision. I've noticed SEA is getting a bit better at this in recent days but they still have a ways to go.<br /><br />Ultimately, strikes are won in the court of public opinion, not at the bargaining table. Part of "the process" of bargaining a contract is using effective PR to undermine the position of your opponent. In this case, undermining SPS' position isn't hard because the public has built up a deep level of anger at them over the years, so SEA has a lot of goodwill to draw upon - though they have to be careful not to lose it by failing to properly explain their position and their actions.Greenwoodynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-2001120774894927292015-09-13T20:27:33.113-07:002015-09-13T20:27:33.113-07:00Anonymous, Perhaps the most disappointing aspect o...Anonymous, Perhaps the most disappointing aspect of our district is that our administrators perform so poorly, are so unresponsive to our community, seem to lack all accountability. Let's see... the list is endless. Schools closed over community objections, reopened a few years later at enormous expense and with great turmoil, no one held accountable. Crappy math curriculum forced on schools despite resistance from parents and teachers. Popular principal fired for no reason, community up in arms. Precious resources channeled into standardized testing which no one wants except administrators. Most of them don't stick around for more than a few years. Our district does need high quality administrators but, unfortunately, what we have is administrative bloat that drains resources from our kids' classrooms. <br /><br />SolidarityAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-67761421573297620222015-09-13T20:12:15.690-07:002015-09-13T20:12:15.690-07:00anon 7:42
has compensating administrators fairly f...anon 7:42<br />has compensating administrators fairly for what they "endure" led to better outcomes for district students? <br /><br />-wondering, honestly but snarkilyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65332646714033315792015-09-13T19:42:00.205-07:002015-09-13T19:42:00.205-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36127507502863190072015-09-13T19:31:51.640-07:002015-09-13T19:31:51.640-07:00*foolish to starve schools while create more assis...*foolish to starve schools while create more assistant SUPERINTENDENTS (not supervisors, bad autocorrect)<br /><br />CCAAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71785849392362034162015-09-13T19:27:36.905-07:002015-09-13T19:27:36.905-07:00I hope SEA is asking for more counselors and famil...I hope SEA is asking for more counselors and family support workers too. Only 0.5 counselors for any school with less than 550 kids is ridiculous, also taking away family support workers from schools with Special Ed, ELL and high FRL means teachers end up doing that job also on top of their own. <br /><br />My kids' teachers get to school at 8am (1.5 hours early) to help kids who don't have internet at home, and I've received calls from them several times as late as 6-7pm (from school phones). It makes me angry to hear people try to portray them as greedy and lazy, especially when the people doing so are clearly using SPS as only a way station on their way up to higher paying jobs!<br /><br />It is foolish to starve schools of funding while creating more and more assistant supervisors and other top admin positions each year. We know what teachers do for students, what do all these administrators do? Why are there so many assistant superintendents now?<br /><br />Mr Nyland gets paid a lot more than Ms Goodloe-Johnson did, and has many more assistants. What does he do other than sign illegal contract, write threatening letters to teachers ordering them not to talk to parents about that ill-advised SBAC fiasco, and starts negotiations at end of summer with 1st offer demanding teachers agree to paycut - with 1% raise for 6% more work - such blatant disrespect! That's clearly not negotiating in good faith! We already have young teachers needing to go to foodbanks. Mr Nyland seems to want them on Basic Food and Medicaid also! Already we have teachers at our schools spending their own money for school and students supplies and fieldtrips, parents are now asked to buy cleaning supplies and paper towels, bathrooms cleaned every three days at schools with several hundred kids, no textbooks for home because the kids have to share them in class! Not enough IAs so some kids are kept in the resource room ALL DAY and never get to go to any regular classrooms! Kids with IEPs not served because counselor only there two days per week.<br /><br />I realize the strike is hard for parents, but we need to press for more money spent where the students are! Each year there are more students yet fewer school staff and school services because SPS claims not enough money. Yet some how there's plenty of money for newly created admin positions downtown!<br /><br />Don't let Nyland turn our schools into Walmart! Education is NOT a business. Paying the LEAST for the MOST work can make CEOs rich and Amazon et al. powerful, but that kind of practice in education will destroy our children's futures. If the teachers give in now, SPS will keep cutting funds to schools to divert more money to central administration. Nyland, like Gates, believe teachers are expendable. <br /><br />CCA<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34138114287045387392015-09-13T17:43:06.700-07:002015-09-13T17:43:06.700-07:00Re special ed staffing ratios Lynn linked to above...Re <a href="http://sps.ss8.sharpschool.com/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/News/Whats%20New/sps_special_education_workload_proposal.pdf" rel="nofollow">special ed staffing ratios</a> Lynn linked to above: Can an informed teacher or parent (mirmac1, FloorPie?) tell us the bottom line? Have SPS and SEA agreed? Are the ratios the least bit reasonable? (One thing I have noted in teachers' comments is that the set ratios aren't respected anyway, so if the top limit is supposed to be 7 or 8, a teacher expects to be assigned 10 or 11 students. So what is the point?)Maureennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79460775024201641862015-09-13T17:31:25.146-07:002015-09-13T17:31:25.146-07:00Eye on Principals -- well, damn. I'm sorry to ...Eye on Principals -- well, damn. I'm sorry to hear that.<br /><br />Helen Schinskehschinskehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10316478950862562594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8310621787886826432015-09-13T16:55:48.286-07:002015-09-13T16:55:48.286-07:00@hschinske
Unfortunately, we had a very different ...@hschinske<br />Unfortunately, we had a very different experience of Halfaker as principal at Washington. Our APP student was a student with a serious health condition and 504 in addition, and Halfaker essentially told teachers they did not have to accommodate our student. <br /><br />I'd encourage everyone to look closely at principals and the IDEA-compliance culture they establish. Makes a huge difference. When these principals become admin... look even more closely.<br /><br />- Eye on PrincipalsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53883423851587920952015-09-13T16:49:33.163-07:002015-09-13T16:49:33.163-07:00Seems like shedding a light on top salaries is mak...Seems like shedding a light on top salaries is making a difference. I hope so. I looked up the job description for principals and they are expected to do extra meetings and gatherings for whatever reason. At my school, the principal is out of the building a fair amount so I'm not sure how much of that is actually during after-school hours. I went to a very nice meeting with my principal during the Maria days. It was at Anthony's at Shilshole and I had a very nice lunch and listened to a wonderful speaker. Yes, I sat with my principal who sat with Goodloe-Johnson. Once in my teaching career - believe me. <br /><br />Will providing increases for teachers leave less for admin increases? Conflict of interest?nnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32765091129004110472015-09-13T16:32:38.882-07:002015-09-13T16:32:38.882-07:00". . . I don't relish the prospect of neg...". . . I don't relish the prospect of negotiating a principal contract next year amid the atmosphere we are sure to have of substantial layoffs of new teachers if we end up promising money we don't have in order to get kids back to school."<br /><br />And how do you <i>know</i> that we'll have layoffs if SPS meets SEA's offer?<br /><br />South Whidbey settled for a two-year contract with 5% and 5% raises. That is precisely .5% lower than SEA's latest offer. Can you explain why Seattle Public Schools can't meet an offer comparable to South Whidbey's?<br /><br />David EdelmanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-61798128395867991192015-09-13T16:30:28.048-07:002015-09-13T16:30:28.048-07:00Principled Principal, I'm curious about two th...Principled Principal, I'm curious about two things:<br />1) a) if teacher salaries have been languishing for years, and District knows this, why have they continued to spend big chunks of money on things besides actual educators (MAP tests, more and more top level admin....) and b) of not now, when do you expect that teachers will be able to get the pay they deserve and the pay we NEED to attract and retain teachers?<br /><br />2) You mention that principal bonuses came out of TIF. That's the Teacher Incentive Fund. Explain, please, why that TEACHER incentive fund paid principals bonuses. Shouldn't all monies associated with that go to, oh, I don't know....teachers? Can you shed some light on this mystery? Is there some accounting metric that pays principals the money granted for teachers' successes? I'm heartily confused.<br />Thank you for shedding some light on this accounting.seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36667921934313841962015-09-13T16:09:30.987-07:002015-09-13T16:09:30.987-07:00I don't think the principal bonuses are over y...I don't think the principal bonuses are over yet. IN looking at their 2013-2016, I see in the section "principal balanced scorecard", it looks like SPS offers individual "principal effectiveness awards" up to 7500 per year if you score well on the "scorecard". This is in addition to salary and stipends. As a teacher, I don't get a bonus if my students score well on tests. I get a negative rating if they score poorly. With regard to the student growth rating, it's inherently unfair. When I worked at a wealthy school, any student needing extra help usually had after school parent funded tutoring and lots of in school PTA funded staff support. Kids did not need an IEP to get help. This is important as many families I work with do not want special education. Now, I'm at a school with 63% free and reduced lunch. We get a .7 extra teacher who only can work with kids on free and reduced lunch. If you are a student who is not on FRL, there is no extra support for you. It's just me, which is difficult when I've got reading range of 1st thru 7th grade in my 3rd/4th split class. But back the principal bonus issue, an important one to unpack - financial incentives should be shared with everyone in the building who contributes to a student's positive school experience - teachers, IA's, office staff, bus drivers, custodians, principals. We all matter.Maggie Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14909452827006435882015-09-13T16:01:20.703-07:002015-09-13T16:01:20.703-07:00http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Seattle-teacher...http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Seattle-teachers-strike-continues-no-school-Monday-327218701.html<br /> - ABCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com