tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post4066401111675992738..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: How easily I get confusedMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35728319674127981542007-12-15T23:02:00.000-08:002007-12-15T23:02:00.000-08:00Dear Anon sat at 5:43,So true.The classroom group ...Dear Anon sat at 5:43,<BR/><BR/>So true.<BR/><BR/>The classroom group that a teacher must use differential instruction for gets more and more diverse as the grade level gets higher. In the SPS, due to the failure to enforce the defining of necessary skills to be taught at each grade level and complete failure to either provide effective interventions and/or non-promotion based on necessary skills, the diversity of this group becomes larger faster than in many other places. <BR/><BR/>The current idea of evaluating teachers on their ability to turn pages in a uniform fashion with the uniformity of synchronized swimmers is one of the most bizarre ideas yet. This is now know as Fidelity of Implementation.<BR/><BR/>Do not worry if the children do not understand just keep turning those pages for in the end the kids will understand {at least when it is discovered in the end that they did not get it, the kids will be long gone from your classroom}.<BR/><BR/>---------------------<BR/>Consider the following from Niki Hayes:<BR/><BR/>We need to be really careful about believing everything a company’s salespeople or representatives tell us. Our children's academic lives depend on <B>our doing our homework</B>. We also need to stop turning these issues into politically- charged ones ....in the decision-making process that leads to big bucks for people.<BR/> <BR/>As a sidebar, I wouldn't buy a product that has 3,000 pages (1,000 pages in the teacher's lesson guide alone) for my third grade teachers to try and wade through in 176 days of instruction when they must teach four core subjects.[the 3000 pages is in reference to Everyday Math]<BR/> <BR/>Niki Hayes <BR/>----------------------------<BR/><BR/>Here I thought the national emphasis on math was going to be a big improvement. Well it was for publishing houses,especially for Pierson with the WASL contract.<BR/><BR/>The top scoring math countries have math specialists teaching math beginning around grade 3 and none have the social promotion policies of SPS.<BR/><BR/>The fear of tracking students is greater than the fear of failing to educate them.<BR/><BR/>I as a part of a team of three had great success once with developing a middle school program that effectively used differentiated instruction at the middle level in a team taught classroom. My principal could have cared less because it disrupted the uniformity.<BR/><BR/>Well the SPS is certainly on track for great uniformity. Unfortunately that is miles away from the best education that can be provided each child.<BR/><BR/>We have moved from the idea of uniform access to education for each child to the absurd idea of uniform educational outcomes.<BR/><BR/>NCLB had no effectively researched ideas for improving failing schools. NCLB according to NYU research analyst Diane Ravitch has produced five years of disruption and little else.<BR/><BR/>When a program is based on the fake accomplishments of Houston schools, under Supt. Rod Paige during GWB's governorship in Texas, that hardly makes it based on creditable research.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23192346599519824712007-12-15T17:43:00.000-08:002007-12-15T17:43:00.000-08:00Charlie and differentiation - Charlie, I teach, an...Charlie and differentiation - <BR/><BR/>Charlie, I teach, and you don't.<BR/><BR/>differentiation in math has been a great excuse to mix and match kids skills just any old way, and it is your fault as a teacher if, with skills that are all over the map, the kids behavior is all over the map. <BR/><BR/>I have never seen this idea detailed so that it workable in reality, but, I'm sure that there are reams and gigabytes of 'research' showing it works on paper and on hard drives.<BR/><BR/>p.s. - for anyone considering applying for a job teaching math, do not use anything I just said in an interview, if you need a job.<BR/><BR/>anon satAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-67178868881627586122007-12-12T18:50:00.000-08:002007-12-12T18:50:00.000-08:00Kellogg does not do a math placement test. A 7th g...Kellogg does not do a math placement test. A 7th grader can opt into honors math, which at Kellogg means 8th grade math. They 8th grade work book. In 8th grade honors students take integrated I, which is 9th grade math. Again, no test. You elect yourself in, and if you drop below a 75 you get bumped into a regular ed class. Most families that we know have been very responsible in trying to choose the right placement for their children.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-82582985969575559042007-12-12T12:14:00.000-08:002007-12-12T12:14:00.000-08:00I never said honors classes were elitist. Indeed, ...I never said honors classes were elitist. Indeed, I never even *mentioned* honors classes until someone else brought them up. I was responding to the situation Charlie described in the words "Not only do a number of teachers not present challenging, rigorous material, many of them do not even teach to the Standards, the grade level expectations."<BR/><BR/>He proposed using opt-in Spectrum classes as a way of getting away from such teaching. I disagree. I think such a solution would be less just. <BR/><BR/>As far as I can tell, I'm not disagreeing with Charlie at all over ultimate goals -- only over the best way to achieve those goals. <BR/><BR/>Helen SchinskeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15570617743390535712007-12-12T10:26:00.000-08:002007-12-12T10:26:00.000-08:00Why are honors classes elitist? If they are open ...Why are honors classes elitist? If they are open to all, what is the problem?Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-58420456439768656572007-12-12T09:23:00.000-08:002007-12-12T09:23:00.000-08:00Mel said "What most of you need to do, all of us, ...Mel said <B>"What most of you need to do, all of us, is rise up, together, and tell the Board, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT THE PROGRAM TO LOOK LIKE."</B><BR/><BR/>Wow!!! that worked so well in math there was no record or even video of any public testimony of the May 30th Everyday Math adoption.<BR/><BR/>The idea that the SPS board hears anything worth acting on without massive disruption has not been born out in the last 24 months.<BR/><BR/>There is no data driven intelligent decision making in many areas.<BR/>No transparency.<BR/><BR/>If you can arrange for fights and shouting you might have a slight chance.<BR/><BR/>Logical rational thought well presented by a variety of parents both professional and non-professional has been virtually useless.<BR/><BR/>Witness the recent Denny/Sealth ongoing disaster.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86090374916416034242007-12-12T09:07:00.000-08:002007-12-12T09:07:00.000-08:00I apologize for upsetting people. I was not thinki...I apologize for upsetting people. I was not thinking of a middle school environment like Kellogg's when I wrote -- rather of an elementary school where the choice would be all or nothing. I was also thinking specifically of the proposal to turn a program that *had* been test-in to an opt-in program -- rather than a situation where there had been honors and regular classes for a while.<BR/><BR/>I'm also speaking in the context of a district in which there are undeniably classes that don't suit anyone, and that people want to get away from. Providing an escape hatch in the form of honors classes doesn't fix the real problem there, and is an elitist solution. Classes at all levels *should work*, just as first-grade classes should be as successful on their own terms as second-grade classes, and so on up. It sounds as if Shoreline is a lot closer to that ideal than Seattle is.<BR/><BR/>By the way, does Kellogg use placement tests in math at all? Can one test out of a year, or is the honors math enrichment rather than acceleration?<BR/><BR/>Helen SchinskeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34309245553664257942007-12-12T08:50:00.000-08:002007-12-12T08:50:00.000-08:00Ever wonder why Shoreline has plenty of room, plen...Ever wonder why Shoreline has plenty of room, plently of money, but is closing schools? They have a deminishing school age population because the city is built out and families with grown children are staying in thier homes, not downsizing. Absent the importation of students from other districts, they would have to continue closing even more schools, and will likely do that anyway. <BR/><BR/>Before folks get too grass is greener, remember that the Shoreline School District Board also faced a recall petition, had a walkout on thier hands for teacher treatment, and is being sanctioned by the Office of Civil Rights for the Dept of Ed for discrmination against special education students. Not knocking what appears to be a good thing for dfm and others, but Shoreline is not perfect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31384251355498372912007-12-12T07:28:00.000-08:002007-12-12T07:28:00.000-08:00We found our Seattle neighborhood elementary schoo...We found our Seattle neighborhood elementary school to be fantastic and didn't go to Shoreline for elementary, so I can't speak to how they handle advanced learning k-6. I will go to the Shorecrest HS info night in February, and will post anything that I find out about their high school honors/AP program then.<BR/><BR/>DFMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62441884153272548172007-12-12T06:47:00.000-08:002007-12-12T06:47:00.000-08:00Mel said "What most of you need to do, all of us, ...Mel said "What most of you need to do, all of us, is rise up, together, and tell the Board, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT THE PROGRAM TO LOOK LIKE."<BR/><BR/>The HC grant pays for testing anyone. Do away with private testing and we have a more level field. Go to the School Board and ask them to ask the supt how many kids get to APP from Spectrum. The answer is "most." APP starts out small and as the grades get higher, the enrollment increases. Spectrum was defined as a gifted program and only recently were the enrollment criteria changed to make it a "borderline" gifted program. This was an effort to reduce the APP program until it shrivels up and goes away. One unified test-in program would make for a much stronger, larger population. Getting rid of waitlisted Spectrum seats is something to request. Combine APP and Spectrum.<BR/><BR/>A big part of the admin. challenge is finding teachers who can teach these kids. In some states it requires an extra level of certification. FInding principals who like these kids is the greatest challenge.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33048794821069553542007-12-11T21:53:00.000-08:002007-12-11T21:53:00.000-08:00Mel-Shoreline does have a seperate test-in program...Mel-<BR/><BR/>Shoreline does have a seperate test-in program for high cap for Elementary. There are two sites that are co-located in larger schools. Again, there is no wait-list. If more kids test in, they add more seats.<BR/><BR/>I don't have the exact figures with me, but the programs aren't used by all who qualify. The principal at our elementary school told us that about 40% of the kids who test in go. I think that parents who feel like their kids are doing okay at their home (in walking distance) school see no need to put their kids on a bus each day. If a student tests in and chooses not to go, their home school gets the funding from the state to purchase extra materials.<BR/><BR/>At the middle and high school levels, there is definitely some pressure from the school (teachers and administrators) both for kids who they think will do well in honors classes to take them and for kids who might struggle to consider opting out. But, in the end, it is up to the family.<BR/><BR/>The biggest differnce I see in Shoreline is a high value placed on neighborhood schools as opposed to Seattle that places a high value on choice. But, I think Shoreline can do that because of the more homogenous population.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81908131527441664202007-12-11T20:08:00.000-08:002007-12-11T20:08:00.000-08:00This is all a great discussion.What most of you ne...This is all a great discussion.<BR/><BR/>What most of you need to do, all of us, is rise up, together, and tell the Board, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT THE PROGRAM TO LOOK LIKE. I'd be interested in learning more about Shoreline's program. I think that works at middle school because there are separate classes but I am unsure how it would work at elementary.<BR/><BR/>Nonetheless, why can't it be like that here? Why can't whoever wants the challenge and can keep up be allowed in a so-called honors math, social studies or LA class? <BR/><BR/>But the district needs to hear this loudly and in large numbers.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-26543070298682258742007-12-11T19:47:00.000-08:002007-12-11T19:47:00.000-08:00Wow, think about that???.....No competition to get...Wow, think about that???.....<BR/><BR/>No competition to get into a school. Shoreline has neighborhood schools with plenty of space and guaranteed access if you are within the boundaries.....<BR/><BR/>Once you are in, no competition to get into honors classes. There are enough for everyone.<BR/><BR/>Compare that to choosing a school in Seattle. You have no idea if your gonna "get in". If you don't get in you get a mandatory assignment somewhere you don't want to be that may not even be in your neighborhood. Then when you finally get to whatever school you wind up in, and you "test in" to Spectrum you still have a good chance of getting dumped on a Spectrum Wait list if you are in a popular school. This system MAKES parents become pushy, competitive and stressed out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-25216657167759636562007-12-11T19:22:00.000-08:002007-12-11T19:22:00.000-08:00One more thing, and I'm sorry to be so long winded...One more thing, and I'm sorry to be so long winded, just very passionate about this topic.<BR/><BR/>To Helen Schinske, if you went to Kellogg, you would notice that they don't have all of those pushy parents and elitist notions. Because it is not competitive. No test. No wait list. No stress. No limited access. No clawing your way in or to the top. It is much more simple. You just elect to take a class, and viola, you're in. It eliminates all of the elitist, entitled, privatized, pushy parents, and opens the door to kids who just want a challenging class. Think about it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88183614625350883502007-12-11T19:16:00.000-08:002007-12-11T19:16:00.000-08:00And to Helen Schinske, I would say go and take a l...And to Helen Schinske, I would say go and take a look at Kellogg MS. See how self elected honors works. About 30% of their MS students take one honors class. About 19% take 2 or more honors classes. They all take them by choice. If they can't keep up a grade of 75 or higher they are bumped into regular ed. This is how they keep these classes challenging for the kids who need the challenge, and don't overwhelm the kids who really are not at that level. Your perception is wrong about the non-honors classes being or feeling remedial. Quite the opposite. My child went to Salmon Bay last year for 6th grade. All of his classes felt like remedial classes. He learned nothing, and goofed off a lot. His English class was a joke. This year at Kellogg,, he is in a regular English class where he is challenged every single day! It feels like an honors class as they are light years ahead of Salmon Bay. No where near remedial. <BR/><BR/>You shouldn't try to cut down something that you haven't tried or haven't seen in action. Shoreline is doing a fantastic job of challenging EVERY student. Please don't be so defensive and so quick to condemn.<BR/><BR/>DFMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39334861504791214722007-12-11T19:05:00.000-08:002007-12-11T19:05:00.000-08:00We live in Seattle but live very close to the Shor...We live in Seattle but live very close to the Shoreline border. We opted to enroll our son at Kellogg, the Shoreline neighborhood middle. In addition to the fact that Kellogg has 690 kids VS. Eckstein's <BR/>1250 kids, Kellogg also has a self elected honors program. I have posted about this before, but I will mention it here again as it relates to this thread. Any student at Kellogg can elect themselves into one, two, three or all four honors classes (Soc Stud, English, math and science). They have a large enrollment in their honors program, and no wait list!! Everyone who wants to take an honors class, takes it! No competition. No tests. No wait lists. The only requirement is that your child maintains a grade of 75 or higher. If they fall below, they get bumped into a regular ed class . Unlike Spectrum in Seattle which is "all or nothing", with self elected honors classes you can customize your own curriculum. If you are strong in math, you can take an honors math class. If you are super interested and motivated in science, you can just take a science honors class. You can take one honors class, all honors classes or none. And the best part is its all up to you! It's very civil. And, with the exception of math (which is about the same) we have found the classes to be far more challenging than our friends Spectrum classes at Eckstein.<BR/><BR/>In addition to all of the above, they offer full year science at every grade in MS, and every kid gets an ibook laptop for the entire school year!!! It feels like a private school. Now I understand why Shoreline is ranked so high. <BR/><BR/>I know Shoreline is a smaller district, and their demographics are different. But, there is no reason Seattle couldn't do many of these things.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-12780982802423959542007-12-11T15:58:00.000-08:002007-12-11T15:58:00.000-08:00The presence of tracking no more precludes the int...The presence of tracking no more precludes the introduction of differentiation than the presence of the ferry precluded the construction of the bridges. There is absolutely no basis for saying such a thing. How does the presence of Spectrum or APP prevent teachers from getting training in differentiation? It doesn't. How does it prevent principals from getting training in it? It doesn't. How does it prevent the District from using coaches to support differentiation? It doesn't. There is a plenty big range in the general education classes already to provide teachers with practice. There are plenty of high performing students in general education classes to provide teachers with practice. There are plenty of APP- and Spectrum-eligible students in general education classes to provide them with practice. As has been pointed out, there is a plenty big range in the Spectrum and APP classes to practice differentiation there too.<BR/><BR/>There is no reason to dismantle the system that works pretty well for a large number of students BEFORE the new system is built. It is entirely unnecessary.<BR/><BR/>Furthermore, there is no reason to believe that Spectrum and APP hurt the overall goals of the educational system. The suggestion is inflammatory and it is irresponsible to state such a thing without some sort of supporting details.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-44850360417011449102007-12-11T14:46:00.000-08:002007-12-11T14:46:00.000-08:00"APP could then be more selective - as it once was..."APP could then be more selective - as it once was - and be just for the students who really need it: the severely gifted (that's actually the correct jargon). These would be the kids who enter UW after the eighth or tenth grade."<BR/><BR/>I like this a lot. I think there would be few that would disagree that a special program is needed for kids that are so far ahead that they are entering college in 8-10th grade. <BR/><BR/>I agree that for those falling below this criteria the justification that they need/deserve a separate program more than others, and where that line of eligibility is drawn is problematic.<BR/><BR/>My son is on the upper edge of Spectrum, as are many of his peers. I think he would have no problem handling the APP middle school curriculum. He tested into the math class where most of the APP kids are in and is getting an A so far. It's fortunately that math placement is independent of the district eligibility test. So why should others get the more rigorous curriculum in APP when they just scored a few points above him on the eligibility test and he could handle the curriculum?<BR/><BR/>That's my issue with the program. I would imagine it's the same issue for those that don't meet the eligilbity requirements for Spectrum but feel their kids could handle the curriculum. <BR/><BR/>I think that the general ed classes are taught to the middle and below and so anyone that is performing above the middle and below Spectrum feels that they want more rigorous coursework and that the people that tested into Spectrum and APP are not all more deserving of it then they are.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41731375030078407632007-12-11T11:19:00.000-08:002007-12-11T11:19:00.000-08:00If you had self-selected Spectrum, that *would* be...If you had self-selected Spectrum, that *would* be lowering expectations for the regular program -- you'd have people thinking they had to "opt in" to get a real education. Spectrum would become the "non-remedial" program, not any sort of real accommodation for advanced learners. I think that would be much *more* elitist, much *more* open to charges of parental pushiness, and much *more* like a private school within a public school than the current system.<BR/><BR/>I'd love to see differentiation, cross-grade classes, all that. But to do it all right, I doubt you could manage with current class sizes. I think given the way the whole school system is set up, with the expectation of age-based groupings and large homogeneously taught classes, the best we can do is tinker within the age groupings, which pretty much leaves us stuck with self-contained gifted classes.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, given that we've *got* a particular program, and we've *got* this particular issue with how the assignment plan is being handled, what on earth is wrong with discussing that? Why do we need to start from the beginning every time the subject of APP is brought up?<BR/><BR/>Helen SchinskeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14391319348399250452007-12-11T11:05:00.000-08:002007-12-11T11:05:00.000-08:00To anon at 8:57 - Sorry I don't agree that "those ...To anon at 8:57 - Sorry I don't agree that "those APP" kids will all be all right. I taught in the APP program a few years ago. Prior to that I taught in special education. Both sets of parents had concerns about the education and welfare of their children. The special ed parents had a set of prescribed procedures that insured a process for determining a specialized program for their children. They were invited to participate in the planning of an appropriate IEP. They had voice in the process and usually a strong advocate working with them, the special education teacher. <BR/><BR/>My personal experience is that APP parents, while perceived to have a strong voice and nothing to complain about, actually are worrying about more than whether their child will get into an ivy league college. I dealt with APP students with both special education and emotional health issues. I never had one of my special ed students attempt suicide, but it did happen with my APP students.<BR/><BR/>APP and special education have a lot in common - students who need consideration of their unique abilities. I never hear people complain about the special ed parents who have advocated for their child's placement in a particular program including placement at district expense in a private school. Is that because we feel sorry for those parents? <BR/><BR/>Let give APP parents some credit for the value they do add to the district. They do volunteer, they help raise money, and they have kept their kids in the public schools. And they do care about kids.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77928009079245157422007-12-11T09:17:00.000-08:002007-12-11T09:17:00.000-08:00Charlie writes:"I think that entrance to Spectrum ...Charlie writes:<BR/><BR/>"I think that entrance to Spectrum should be based on self-selection. This would be coupled with a functional and effective means of moving students out of the program if it proves an inappropriate placement for them."<BR/><BR/>"APP could then be more selective - as it once was - and be just for the students who really need it: the severely gifted (that's actually the correct jargon). These would be the kids who enter UW after the eighth or tenth grade."<BR/><BR/>"I'm not great fan of President Bush, but when he talks about the soft bigotry of low expectations, he hits the nail on the head."<BR/><BR/>(among other things)<BR/><BR/>Well, I agree with all of this. I could be comfortable with a self-selected Spectrum program (and a requirement that it be offered at schools in every cluster) + a much more stringent APP standard that actually identifies kids that have special needs. (Though I believe the correct term is "Profoundly gifted", not "severely"). Even in our rarefied world, though I'd expect that to be a small proportion of SPS children (something close to the 1/1000 the statistics would support). That would also decrease the size of the APP program relieving the current problem of over-crowding. <BR/><BR/>And, I too am neither a fan of Bush or NCLB, but I have seen a consequence I like: I think we've been forced to face up to the inequity of expectations in our different schools and that's a good thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72594095986507777772007-12-11T09:01:00.000-08:002007-12-11T09:01:00.000-08:00"Anonymous-at-many-times, If your child has qualif..."Anonymous-at-many-times, If your child has qualified for APP and you didn't choose to send them there, how is that not an alternative?"<BR/><BR/>Because it's not an alternative for the children who didn't qualify through a process that is by no means a consensus method of selecting for "advanced" programs. If it's an alternative program, it should be treated like an alternative, not a "special ed" program for which children qualify. <BR/><BR/>The fact that it could have been an alternative for my own children has nothing to do with any of my thinking on this question or my participation in this forum. I read and think about these questions because I care about the SPS and I care about the equity issues. I oppose SPS policies that allow people to find solutions that work for subgroups of children without considering all the children. <BR/><BR/>Again, I think we have to separate the personal from the political. I don't expect anyone to not defend policies that help your own children, but that's not going to prevent me from arguing for the decisions I favor (even when they don't affect my children).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20646810659552285312007-12-11T08:55:00.000-08:002007-12-11T08:55:00.000-08:00I, too, think that more students could benefit fro...I, too, think that more students could benefit from a more rigorous curriculum. I think that more rigorous curriculum could be Spectrum.<BR/><BR/>I think that entrance to Spectrum should be based on self-selection. This would be coupled with a functional and effective means of moving students out of the program if it proves an inappropriate placement for them.<BR/><BR/>Think of the money that would be saved on testing if students could get into Spectrum simply by enrolling in it. Think of how many more students would be exposed to more challenging, rigorous schoolwork. Think of how test scores would rise. Think of how satisfaction with the District would be improved. Think of how enrollment would grow.<BR/><BR/>Let's be very candid. A lot of people who opt out of the general education classroom - either for advanced learning programs, alternative education programs or private school - aren't running TO something they want, they are running FROM something they don't want. If they could be assured an escape from the chaos, the low expecations, the wasted time, the behavior problems, and the peer pressure to underachieve in the general education classroom, without leaving the public school system, I think they would take it.<BR/><BR/>Could this mean that 40-50% or more of our students would be in Spectrum? I think so. How would that be a bad thing?<BR/><BR/>APP could then be more selective - as it once was - and be just for the students who really need it: the severely gifted (that's actually the correct jargon). These would be the kids who enter UW after the eighth or tenth grade.<BR/><BR/>Even these steps would still be interim solutions. There is no reason that every classroom could not offer rigorous, challenging, and, when appropriate, accelerated curriculum. Wonder why they don't?<BR/><BR/>When teachers, particularly those in South Seattle, are encouraged to nominate their advanced learners for Spectrum and APP, a lot of them say they don't have any such students in their class.<BR/><BR/>When principals, particularly those in South Seattle, are encouraged to nominate their advanced learners for Spectrum and APP, a lot of them say they don't have any such students in their school.<BR/><BR/>It's actually worse than that.<BR/><BR/>Not only do a number of teachers not present challenging, rigorous material, many of them do not even teach to the Standards, the grade level expectations.<BR/><BR/>We know this to be true because we know that students are arriving in classrooms unprepared to do the work and unfamiliar with the pre-requisite material. Students who fail the 10th grade WASL are the same students who failed the 7th grade WASL are the same students who failed the 4th grade WASL.<BR/><BR/>I'm not great fan of President Bush, but when he talks about the soft bigotry of low expectations, he hits the nail on the head.<BR/><BR/>Look at Van Asselt. Do you know why this school, with 457 students - one of the biggest elementary schools in the District - with 44% bilingual, 98% minority, and 82% FRE - had 4th grade WASL Reading, Writing and Math pass rates of 74%, 68.5% and 63%? Because their plan there is to teach to the strongest students and help the rest to keep up.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-45091857156627904082007-12-11T08:51:00.000-08:002007-12-11T08:51:00.000-08:00The problem we "differentiators" have with the fer...The problem we "differentiators" have with the ferry/bridge analogy is that we think the existence of the ferry (tracking/APP) will prevent the building of the bridge (differentiation) and actually favor the tragedy of having neither (standardization of mediocrity). <BR/><BR/>You defend tracking because it is working for you. But, tracking fails others (including those APP students who are functioning above the standardized advanced curriculum offered at Lowell). Mind you, I expect no one to jump onto the bandwagon to oppose a program that helps their child, so I do not mean that statement to be an ad hominem attack). But, neutral observers can't be too swayed by the idea that something helps a particular group of children if it hurts the overall goals of the educational system.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-12969038352040340602007-12-11T08:45:00.000-08:002007-12-11T08:45:00.000-08:00Anonymous-at-many-times, If your child has qualifi...Anonymous-at-many-times, If your child has qualified for APP and you didn't choose to send them there, how is that not an alternative? My children qualified, but no one made me send them there, I chose it because it works for us. How is this different than someone who choses an alternative program like AS1 or TOPS? For someone who claims to not want to engage in APP bashing, you are certainly devoting a lot of time to it in this thread. And no one "pushes" kids into APP. You don't qualify, you don't get in.If my kids were floundering there, I would pull them out. They are not. I would LOVE nothing more than to be able to send them to our neighborhood school, and be able to walk to it, and not get up so early to catch a bus across town, but we tried that, it didn't work. I'm not asking for anything special, I'm not demanding a more rigorous program to send my kid off to Harvard at age 16. I am looking for the same thing you are, an appropriate education for my children from the public schools.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com