tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post4585777059509883836..comments2024-03-28T23:38:22.511-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Tuesday Open ThreadMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68498633121215141962016-03-03T21:25:20.134-08:002016-03-03T21:25:20.134-08:00Yes, I should put up a thread on Trish Dziko who I...Yes, I should put up a thread on Trish Dziko who IS the real thing who DOESN'T pull any punches and truly is the guiding light for public education in this region. Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87963297745291386182016-03-03T20:43:27.743-08:002016-03-03T20:43:27.743-08:00Ed Voter: Can you recall what year the Aviation H...Ed Voter: Can you recall what year the Aviation HS skirmish in Seattle took place? I am thinking that this disaster lies at the feet of either MGJ or her immediate (and temporary successor). But my vague recall is also that Aviation made its attempt to site the school at RBHS -- with little or no buy in from the neighborhood there (from Aviation's point of view, it had lots of positives -- they wanted a strong school that would pull kids into the SE, RBHS at that point in time was the ONLY Seattle high school that was hugely under-enrolled, etc.) But the local community at RBHS didn't want it (in general, there must have been some individuals who did) and, as you point out, the idea and the movers behind it were not from downtown, so they wanted nothing to do with it either (I am sure they viewed it as nothing more than claptrap burbling up from the hoi polloi). Leaving aside whether it would have been well sited at RBHS (for the same reasons it was causing resentment in Highline when engineering-minded Seattle kids descended on it) -- if it is now oversubscribed, it might be interesting for someone to approach Trish Dziko and the others who backed it to find out if there would be any possibility of starting a second school in Seattle. <br /><br />As for magnets in general, the last ones were supported by administrations BEFORE MGJ -- that is to say, before big ed reform, the Broad School for Superintendents, etc., school board members backed by billionaires looking for "market based solutions," etc. If we can ever free up enough time and attention from fighting off the bad policies (and bad policy makers and administrators) that flow downhill from RttT, SBAC, MAP, Broad, Fordham, etc. -- maybe we can one day get back to the business of dreaming up, and then bringing to reality, a variety of schools so that all Seattle's kids can have options and reasonable educational environments in which they can grow and learn.Jannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-74782245354091195402016-03-03T14:03:11.272-08:002016-03-03T14:03:11.272-08:00HS Parent,
Absolutely true. Not many kids really ...HS Parent,<br /><br />Absolutely true. Not many kids really know - but some do. There 100 kids per class at RAHS. I think the issue was finding 50 within one school district that had this passion. Last year, the non-highline kids drew from many other districts. Kids were willing to come from Everett, Whidbey, Issaquah, and Tacoma because they wanted this. You have to give up sports, music, art and all the traditional high school experiences. Again, the program isn't more rigorous or advanced like an IB or IBX or APP, it's just more specialized. You can't take AP Bio or orchestra - you can take Aviation Law and Intro to Aerospace Engineering. StepJ is exactly correct. (And About Time, I have no idea where you got the "students aren't prepared" nonsense - that was never the issue. Sounds like you know a lot about RBHS, but nothing about RAHS. Stop conflating the two.) A magnet school isn't for everyone - and those kids who are being pushed there by poor alternatives, rather than pulled there by the focus, won't be well-served either. The kids who were only moderately interested in aviation in my son's class switched back to a traditional high school before the end of 9th grade. Highline actually does an excellent job of doing outreach in 8th grade to their schools about their innovative schools (see here http://highlineschools.org/Page/955 , including the awesome WELS outdoor school). The schools send out students to all the 8th grades. My point is a lottery is a poor way to ensure the passion for the subject. Also, it would have been nice if there had been real community engagement on how to address the issue. Families were unaware there was an issue until the surprise news of the change, and Enfield was not interested in feedback or suggestions. I'll sign out - I remember now why I Rarely Comment. Some folks just want to vent without knowing the facts. Was just sharing our experience.<br /><br />rare commenterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50390914685794912232016-03-03T09:53:56.867-08:002016-03-03T09:53:56.867-08:00I don't know the Aviation program, so my comme...I don't know the Aviation program, so my comment may not apply there. But I am nervous about asking kids to specialize at 13.<br /><br />Perhaps some students know as 12 year olds what their life's passion will be. But I think that for most students high school should be an opportunity to try many interests and even change direction completely, several times. They are teenagers with very little life experience. Are we sure our kid isn't an aerospace nut only because she hasn't tried genomics or anthropology. We know that most undergrads change their major. Even those child prodigies who leave high school to pursue a narrow interest like musical performance often don't stick with it after training. Having a variety of experiences available at a high school gives students a good way find their interests. It is why I wish there were more opportunities for electives in our high school curriculum and less emphasis on taking each elective to the highest level. My kids have surprised me by changing interests in high school and college. Their 8th grade priorities did not endure and I am so glad they weren't pigeon-holed at that age.<br /><br />-HS ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59397515558534664812016-03-03T06:35:51.986-08:002016-03-03T06:35:51.986-08:00The essential issue for programs like IB and magne...The essential issue for programs like IB and magnet schools is to provide viable pathways OUT of the program, or the school, for students who find the program is to rigorous or has an emphasis that is not interesting to them. The problem with the school districts is that this sort of flexibility is an anathema to them. This suggests that the district is, undoubtedly, not going to be able or willing to advise and re-situate students who want out of the program. Parents will pressure the school to dumb down the curriculum and the goal of the district to have all schools equivalent and aimed at the LCD will have been achieved. Well done district administrators!<br /><br />I think a lot of the policies that the district imposes to rectify inequities are actually aimed at homogenizing the district so that the schools programs and faculty are interchangeable. District administrators have told us parents that quite often at PTA meetings - that this is their clear goal. Unfortunately, this has the effect of removing exciting programs for all kids.<br /><br />-SPS parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33464833302007597832016-03-03T00:02:09.132-08:002016-03-03T00:02:09.132-08:00RAHS is a magnet school devoted to aviation scienc...RAHS is a magnet school devoted to aviation sciences. There are ways to dedicate attendance per percentage per school district, such as 50% Highline, 30% Tukwila, and 20% SPS. However, if these percentage attendees are determined solely by lottery then the passion and focus of the school will be lost. <br /><br />If your parent applies and gains a spot for you purely on lottery – and you the student don’t really want to attend – well, at the High School level that is a sink and fail.<br /><br />There is the ability to set the percentages of attendance per District at the outset, and then let the students express their passion for attendance to determine the best applicants among these percentages.<br /><br />A magnet school of any genre is incredibly demanding, as in requiring full devotion and mastery of the subject. For a student, that is definitely a study commitment beyond the urging of a parent. Application and acceptance purely by lottery can indicate the passion of the parent. However, only the addition of an interview or other expressions by the student can express their actual passion for the subject.<br />Without passion from the student, a magnet school will falter and fail. With falter and fail the sponsors of said school will recognize failure and step away. I believe that is what the families and faculty of RAHS are trying to express in their opposition to the lottery only selection system. Highline cannot keep this school open without support of corporate sponsors. Corporate sponsors will not continue to sponsor if the kids attending the school are really not fully invested in aviation science.<br /><br />For a Magnet School at the High School level, the student really determines their own success. As a parent I can urge, punish, prompt or use whatever means to get them to act. But unless they themselves have the passion to do the extra work that a magnet requires at a High School level it just won’t get done. They themselves have to want it. That is one of the reveals that an interview will highlight – the personal passion of a student vs. just a winning lottery number. Plopping a kid into an environment where they have no interest will not do the trick. They have to WANT to do the extra work. I believe that is why lottery alone will not allow a magnet school to continue to exist . Educators, students and family can and are smarter than just a lottery.<br /><br />I think in choosing the lottery only solution, Enfield did not consider the best interest of the students of Highline, the continuing success of a magnet school within her jurisdiction, nor the best interest of students interested in aviation science from her and two other participating school districts in the region. I want a Superintendent to be a leader and fight for the success of the kids under their jurisdiction. Lottery only in my opinion is a fail to students and a cave on leadership. <br /><br />-StepJ<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-67665670437147253852016-03-02T21:55:09.876-08:002016-03-02T21:55:09.876-08:00Lynn,
Take that argument to Rainier Beach and see...Lynn,<br /><br />Take that argument to Rainier Beach and see what they say about it. They<br />heard the exact same "your students" aren't "well-prepared" (code for certain types of students) and are "not up to the rigor" naysayers when they were attempting to start an IB program. Outreach is the key. Schedule a meeting<br />with Rita Green if you question that. She'll clue you in on how it works.<br /><br />Laws are laws. Fairness is fairness. Excellence is nurtured and all students<br />are capable of it. <br /><br />The school's purpose won't change, but thankfully more students who attend<br />will come from the district where the school is located (i.e. whom the school<br />is supposed to be serving).<br /><br />--about timeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10700286720558069942016-03-02T20:15:25.428-08:002016-03-02T20:15:25.428-08:00Had the students in the Highline School District b...Had the students in the Highline School District been well prepared for the rigor of work at Aviation, they would have been represented in higher numbers. That is how fairness works.<br /><br />It is not parents who will pull their time and money from the school, it is local businesses. They're not involved with the school because they want to help the underprivileged. They want to support the development of future STEM professionals. Without the mentoring and internships and without a well-prepared group of students who share a passion for aerospace, the school will have no purpose. <br />Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-61278604344001574962016-03-02T20:03:35.927-08:002016-03-02T20:03:35.927-08:00The "you're so bitter" or "you&...The "you're so bitter" or "you're a hater" response to people who call out inequities is similar to "I'm going to take my money and run." It certainly does not address the issues that were raised. We are getting a lot of this response during our current campaign cycle.<br /><br />Obviously, the (legal) heat was turned up enough on Susan Enfield so that it forced her to have to address a long overdue violation(s). BTW, the program will not be a default placement, EE. Students/families will have to choose to be in the lottery.<br /><br />Sadly, it's also a cautionary tale. Being reactive is usually undesirable. Had the students in Highline been represented in the program fairly from the beginning, a better application criteria would already be in place.<br /><br />--about timeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1313933071611055572016-03-02T19:59:29.411-08:002016-03-02T19:59:29.411-08:00I would ask that commenters not make assumptions a...I would ask that commenters not make assumptions about people's race, background or position. I am increasingly finding that this is happening and I wonder if it stifles the discussion. I have had one guy on Twitter (from another state) repeatedly challenging me on my income status, my home and my race. All this without knowing anything about me. <br /><br />I certainly would admit that I believe most of our readers to be white and yes, with that comes privilege. But there is no way for anyone to know who anyone is for certain on this blog and you may not know this when you challenge someone's statement by inserting privilege. <br /><br />Certainly speak broadly if you like but if you are directly answering a question from someone, I would suggest not just throwing that out there. Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6512208521174467302016-03-02T19:53:25.458-08:002016-03-02T19:53:25.458-08:00EDUCATION .... Trump says USA is #30 and Norway an...EDUCATION .... Trump says USA is #30 and Norway and Sweden are near the top. <br /><br />What list is Donald using? Sounds like an advertisement for some kind of tutoring service.<br /><br />Data is not from PISA or TIMSS.<br /><br />I like the local part.... but The Donald pulls data from thin air far too often.<br /><br />What a bleak election season ... other than feeling the Bern, not much of merit.<br /><br />-- Dan DempseyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10905689506607340062016-03-02T18:31:22.688-08:002016-03-02T18:31:22.688-08:00Wow About Time. Why so bitter? Do you have firstha...Wow About Time. Why so bitter? Do you have firsthand knowledge of this? Or are you just making assumptions? Are you talking about RB or RAHS? And you are making lots of assumptions oabout people privilege. Thanks EE for adding a thoughtful comment. <br />Rare Commenter.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-67208981957379745772016-03-02T17:26:46.059-08:002016-03-02T17:26:46.059-08:00@ about time, isn't the program meant to serve...@ about time, isn't the program meant to serve students who are interested in aerospace or aviation, and who are academically prepared for the challenging work?<br /><br />EEAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89840131336132347902016-03-02T16:44:37.052-08:002016-03-02T16:44:37.052-08:00Glad that it has been a great experience for you, ...Glad that it has been a great experience for you, Rare Commentator.<br /><br />Obviously, Highline will need to work harder to ensure that their district's students know how to pursue application to the program (nothing like lawsuits to get a district's attention). Prior to the IB program at RB, many people falsely assumed there wasn't enough "interest". The fact is that parents without knowledge of the system often are unaware of the opportunities available to their children or how to navigate the pursuit. With so many first generation immigrants and refugees in Highline, they will need to focus on outreach. A lottery assumes there will be more applicants than spots.<br /><br />Sounds like it's been an amazing opportunity. It's great that so many more students from within Highline will now be able to take advantage of their own district's program. Public magnet schools have long been one of the best ways to create quality, rigor and diversity. Maybe you can now put your energies into getting SPS to work on opening some of these.<br /><br />Woody Allen said that "80% of success is just showing up." Too many students haven't been informed about where the door of the building is even located, much less about what's inside.<br /><br />Making sure more students attend from within the district for which the program is meant to serve is certainly not a definition of "race to the bottom". Sometimes losing a privileged position feels like that.<br /><br />--about timeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-92183688197005271352016-03-02T15:43:31.607-08:002016-03-02T15:43:31.607-08:00About Raisbeck Aviation High School: my son is a s...About Raisbeck Aviation High School: my son is a student there. We were delighted to leave SPS for it, and have had a wonderful experience. The new lottery system was a shock to students and families, and as some have mentioned, the staff. Morale is low, and the principal just resigned. The reason for the change was a few lawsuits and questions of diversity and proportionate representation from Highline. According to the teachers and the parent meeting, there was trouble filling all the Highline allotted spots with qualified students. And here's what I loved about the school: qualification wasn't based on scores or grades, like a private school or APP which we left. The sole requirement, proved through written essays and an in person interview, was a passion for aerospace or aviation, which is how a magnet school should work. My son wrote and talked about his passion for space and desire to work on a Mars mission. Not enough kids from Highline were even applying, so spots were filled from Seattle and many other districts. No one cared until the new school opened - it was fine when they were in a totally awful vacant temporary site. But the new shiny building opened, and Highline is having the same issues SPS is: overcrowded, decrepit schools. Suddenly RAHS would be a great option, whether or not your kid likes aerospace. And diversity was an issue. Sadly, instead of changing admission requirements or listening to family input on how to do better attracting students of color, Enfield went with the scorched earth option and blew the whole thing up. There are many options between selective admission and a straight lottery: she chose to ignore all, and just repeated, "Everyone has the right to a decent education." So true. Yet so self serving. Instead of lifting the other schools up, she pulled down one that worked. Most families are disheartened: there are no sports at RAHS, just teams like Robotics and Science Olympiad that take enormous time commitments, and they are not going to be filled by incoming students who are merely fleeing an overcrowded school. Funding and internships from aerospace companies like Boeing and Alaska, which support those teams, will likely lag, as they were looking to support future engineers and aerospace workers, which seems less likely with kids who aren't plane/rocket nerds. A shame. We saw firsthand how great a public magnet school can be - the teachers are so dedicated, and everyone has this common passion. We're glad our son will get out under the "old regime" and hope that SPS or other districts look to create more public magnet schools. They are really great for those kids who really know they want to focus on STEM, the arts, etc. Seems we must race to the bottom so that everyone is equally ill served. <br />-Rare CommenterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34806587226488231622016-03-02T13:26:49.819-08:002016-03-02T13:26:49.819-08:00The threat to take your money and run has been a c...The threat to take your money and run has been a consistent response for years on this blog. It can always be counted on whenever anyone brings up sharing PTA dollars, for example. Using this response avoids dealing with any intellectual or ethical merits of the issue, and instead play on fears.<br /><br />AP and IB use performance and interest to determine and maintain rigor. The emphasis on testing into a program, rather than having to demonstrate achievement and excellence to stay in the placement, is a much weaker approach for maintaining rigor. That is why HCC parents complain so much about the program--there is no performance piece once they test in. It also highly favors home preparation over student potential, which some people mistakenly define as "smart".<br /><br />Rainier Beach has already redefined "smart" for many people in this area. Maybe those concerned posters can visit RB and discuss your definition of smart with the community and see their IB program in action. This will likely allay your fears.<br /><br />--about timeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-51680346846707933892016-03-02T13:09:37.925-08:002016-03-02T13:09:37.925-08:00Here's more from a source in Highline:
RAHS re...Here's more from a source in Highline:<br />RAHS resides in the Tukwila school district. As part of the agreement to keep RAHS in the school district, they are supposed to have 50% + 1 come from Highline. Then 20% from Seattle, then the rest from outside districts.<br /><br />From some public disclosure info, it was found that only 25% of the students were coming from Highline. And, Highline has a high number of F/RL and kids of color so obviously the students coming from Highline may not have represented Highline.<br /><br />This person's concern is that Highline students may not be getting the rigor they need for the work that is given at this magnet school.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81679689774664734942016-03-02T09:32:22.247-08:002016-03-02T09:32:22.247-08:00I expect to see private support (funding, voluntee...I expect to see private support (funding, volunteers) decrease dramatically at Aviation over the next few years. The principal is leaving at the end of the year.<br /><br />Support MediocrityAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30016144551733839612016-03-02T09:25:47.692-08:002016-03-02T09:25:47.692-08:00EdVoter, I agree with what you say; the district l...EdVoter, I agree with what you say; the district loves to open new things but the planning and follow-thru is usually poorly done. <br /><br />Very good comments.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-49558656452561325072016-03-02T09:03:06.621-08:002016-03-02T09:03:06.621-08:00The last time Seattle opened a new magnet program ...The last time Seattle opened a new magnet program and supported it was when? (I am not counting the extension of IB, which was already established and in any case is not supported via central district funds the way it should be.) It's been a decade, right? <br /><br />Personally I am very sad that the district can't be bothered at minimum to bring "interest" programs (magnets in other districts) to our city where the populace begs for it. Magnets or what we call option schools are a great tool for racial desegregation and socio-economic heterogeneity.<br /><br />At minimum we should have both a performing arts and hands-on STEM school for 6-12 students. Yes, I believe they should be by application, but not with proof of interest and commitment, not necessarily grades, as the top qualifier. Cleveland's attempt as a STEM draw was interesting but poorly planned and delivered. Band at Garfield and Roosevelt, funded by parents, is not the same as a performing arts school in which our growing visual arts and performing arts students would be supported with flexible schedules and an emphasis on a curriculum that didn't focus on sitting in a seat with textbooks.<br /><br />Secondly, we should continue our language immersion programs 6-12. True international language schools. Hamilton most certainly does not count.<br /><br />This is the sort of central big picture planning I'd like to see from staff, with a promise to get these programs off the ground in the next decade as new buildings come online and enrollment patterns have to shift anyway. This would also force a rethink of the Spectrum and HCC delivery methods and program placement, which is past-due on a refresh and a cogent plan anyhow.<br /><br />EdVoterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-206262589375701042016-03-02T08:43:01.463-08:002016-03-02T08:43:01.463-08:00Magnet schools - for whatever the talent - are dif...Magnet schools - for whatever the talent - are different than regular schools. That's the point. Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31063570672559237672016-03-02T08:33:03.174-08:002016-03-02T08:33:03.174-08:00Really? It's "eliminating" an optio...Really? It's "eliminating" an option - to make Aviation High available to more students? Why SHOULD smart kids (or those who have good "application"), or those who have already achieved... get more options than others? Is it supposed to be some sort of reward? Why SHOULD students who have much home advantages - get even more advantages? One way to equalize opportunity.... is to make it available by lottery. Everyone who wants to attend has an equal chance to do so.<br /><br />Isn't handpicking your student body... kinda the big complaint against charters?<br /><br />ReaderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-69971148354411810012016-03-02T06:19:53.126-08:002016-03-02T06:19:53.126-08:00I would disagree with Grateful Dad that these are ...I would disagree with Grateful Dad that these are options set aside for "smart kids". Speaking from experience with APP/HCC (another commonly vilified elitist academic option under constant attack from the district) these kids are working hard. I've seen lots of smart kids all over the district, but I have never seen kids work as hard as my kid's HCC friends. <br /><br />I think it is a bad precedent for the district to eliminate incentives to excel academically. Worse than bad, its ironic.... <br /><br />-SPS parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36931643824690856222016-03-01T21:27:48.768-08:002016-03-01T21:27:48.768-08:00Some interesting notes on enrollment projections, ...Some interesting notes on enrollment projections, class sizes, and the HCC breach in the most recent friday memo:<br /><br />http://www.seattleschools.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/District/Departments/School%20Board/Friday%20Memos/2015-16/February%2019/20160216_Friday_Memo.pdf<br /><br /><br />- MemoReaderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-60582653843475184792016-03-01T19:01:45.493-08:002016-03-01T19:01:45.493-08:00RE: Aviation, it's simple: People don't li...RE: Aviation, it's simple: People don't like it when smart students have more options.<br /><br />Grateful DadAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com