tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post4606053671798593425..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Opting Out of Middle School MathMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger87125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-205179009957232402014-11-30T20:18:49.591-08:002014-11-30T20:18:49.591-08:00It's true, middle school math is not very inqu...It's true, middle school math is not very inquiry-based...it's a bit boring, especially the "CMP2" now "CMP3" (taught to Common Core). However, Hamilton M.S. now has a three-year pathway, starting with Alg. 1. It's 6th grade Algebra 1 Honors, 7th Geometry Honors, and then Pre-Calculus Honors in 8th ("skipping" Algebra 2)! Of course, for those who took Geometry in 6th (there are a FEW), it's still a problem.<br />SOURCE: I took Algebra in 6th, with Mr. BuchananHamilton Studentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77795445186413557962009-10-27T02:45:31.647-07:002009-10-27T02:45:31.647-07:00Correct link for Math Whizz is HERE .Correct link for Math Whizz is <a href="http://www.whizz.us/" rel="nofollow"> HERE </a>.dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59655903384471784972009-10-22T18:26:44.055-07:002009-10-22T18:26:44.055-07:00Despite increasing numbers of students attempting ...Despite increasing numbers of students attempting calculus in high school the results are NOT looking good. For in college...... <b>absolute numbers of students enrolled in University second year Calculus have been declining for two decades</b>. Yup total number of students enrolled in College has risen but the opposite is true for second year Calculus.<br /><br />The number of engineers graduating has also declined.<br /><br /><b><i>The pathetic results are evident at every level and yet the board continues to listen to "The Club Ed" professionals that produced this calamity. What are these directors thinking?</i></b>dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8717155510933526872009-10-21T18:13:05.480-07:002009-10-21T18:13:05.480-07:00I agree with adhoc. The competition for college pl...I agree with adhoc. The competition for college placement—especially at the affordable and high-quality state universities is pushing our kids to reach for a higher and higher bar. I never did any prep for the SATs and got a decent grade. Now the kids and parents stress about it so much it makes them crazy.SolvayGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12709893209963350066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72702733679766960632009-10-21T16:39:46.621-07:002009-10-21T16:39:46.621-07:00"complaining that high school is pushing calc..."complaining that high school is pushing calculus on more kids but they are missing basic algebra competency. "<br /><br />Honestly, I don't think it's the high schools pushing for students to take calculus, I think it's Universities. It is so competitive to get into college these days that students have to take higher level math just to be considered for admissions. Kids feel forced to get through Alg and Geometry so they can take pre Calc, Calc and statistics.SPS parenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00766426598026724476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-82017824206802738572009-10-21T16:11:57.606-07:002009-10-21T16:11:57.606-07:00I just had a chat with an old friend who teaches m...I just had a chat with an old friend who teaches mathematics at a small private college in Indiana. She's been teaching college for years (we were in grad school together).<br /><br />Said they've redone their calculus to go slower and have added a quantitative methods class for the students who just cannot pass the competency test. She doesn't teach the Methods class, but her colleague who does is simply shocked at the lack of number sense the students have. <br /><br />My friend is currently frustrated with her Linear Algebra class. A mix of math and physics majors, they just aren't getting it. She said they just don't know how to do a proof, and claim that they didn't really do any proofs in high school geometry. <br /><br />Said that the latest MAA journal is full of letters complaining that high school is pushing calculus on more kids but they are missing basic algebra competency. My friend can agree. She is often surprised when lecturing that students stop and ask about very basic algebraic steps. This just didn't use to happen. <br /><br />Oh, and at UW, Calculus and Honors Chemistry allow a simple scientific calculator for tests, but no programmable or graphing calculators. (yay!)Dorothy Nevillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17108759281089768738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-16140917429406356592009-10-21T15:43:48.504-07:002009-10-21T15:43:48.504-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.SPS momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07868844486562389924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76185198097591569812009-10-21T14:19:55.621-07:002009-10-21T14:19:55.621-07:00A bunch of Seattle-area parents have been using Ma...A bunch of Seattle-area parents have been using <a href="www.whizz.us" rel="nofollow">Math-Whizz</a> alongside school to get a more focused math instruction. Everett, Bellevue, Shoreline, Bellingham and Richland districts have added Math-Whizz in some way or others to their elementary and middle-school classrooms.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01523608654064116052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41983554583127267122009-10-21T13:39:27.131-07:002009-10-21T13:39:27.131-07:00oops. That web address should end "dictionary...oops. That web address should end "dictionary.html"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-60285285649380928712009-10-21T13:37:42.811-07:002009-10-21T13:37:42.811-07:00Three years ago (EDM's 1st year) it was requir...Three years ago (EDM's 1st year) it was required. So teachers taught EDM and Montessori-style math both. I'm guessing the teacher was a wreck at the end of the year! After that, they moved most of the EDM to homework and focus on Montessori math teaching at school. <br /><br />This means that homework and schoolwork are unconnected, which to me devalues having homework at all. Still, the EDM worksheets ARE a kind of math practice. I'm trying to discourage dd from even bothering with the online EDM resources. We use other math websites when definitions or methods stump us both -- dd likes this one: http://www.teachers.ash.org.au/jeather/maths/dictionary.html. <br /><br />I have not had any problem finding the supporting material on the EDM site but it is poorly written (the number system that links worksheet to resource book is a bit arcane but I'm now used to it). Dd often doesn't understand after reading the resource guide, or the explanation is circular so if the one word she is stumbling over is key the explanation is no help.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-73461760979937749062009-10-21T10:54:44.072-07:002009-10-21T10:54:44.072-07:00I am 99% sure that when we were in the Montessori ...I am 99% sure that when we were in the Montessori program at T.T. Minor, the teacher used EDM.djhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01720927162286657378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21894196907038511952009-10-21T10:29:08.294-07:002009-10-21T10:29:08.294-07:00Also, make sure you see this comment in Cliff'...Also, make sure you see this comment in Cliff's Math post.<br /><br /><i>The switch to Everyday Math is still in transition; not taught in the Montessori classroom.<br />I am asked to introduce my child to Everyday Math at night using the web/online manual as a tutorial reference.<br /><br />Helping my child to learn is a task I cherish, but in this case the logic is flawed, i.e. the online, Everyday Math pages do not correlate to the Everyday Math book (page numbers and their content are not the same and I have no context for teaching the curriculum. To patch the void, an answer sheet is sent home to support the Everyday Math homework assignments.</i><br /><br />Anybody with a child in SPS Montessori want to share? I can't tell if the commentor on Cliff's blog is in SPS or not.Dorothy Nevillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17108759281089768738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-74115893996860516382009-10-21T10:10:02.878-07:002009-10-21T10:10:02.878-07:00Speaking of math, did you see Cliff Mass's blo...Speaking of math, did you see Cliff Mass's blog today?Dorothy Nevillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17108759281089768738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-74075226063757858232009-10-21T10:03:20.128-07:002009-10-21T10:03:20.128-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.SPS momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07868844486562389924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81197909260371448512009-10-21T07:28:19.193-07:002009-10-21T07:28:19.193-07:00Wseadawg said:
"Once again, those with means...Wseadawg said:<br /><br />"<i>Once again, those with means can pay for their own math if they don't like what the school offers. Is this what we pay taxes and support levies for? Exactly what business model are MGJ and her minions on the Board following where as the <b>customers complain and complain, you simply give them more of what they are complaining about?</b></i>"<br /><br />Peter Maier told me during his campaign that he was tired of the same people testifying at board meetings over and over again on the same issue.<br /><br />Note to Peter:<br />"<b>Fix something</b>"dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-16415967691978517642009-10-20T21:59:27.474-07:002009-10-20T21:59:27.474-07:00Well, my oldest child is only in 1st grade and I&#...Well, my oldest child is only in 1st grade and I'm already very unimpressed with EDM. What gets me are the homework sheets that ask you a pretty straightforward question such as "if one nickel is worth five pennies, then how much are 2 nickels worth?" and then follow it up with "explain how you figured it out." Hmm, is this math, or English? These are six year olds, after all. There are a lot of folks, including adults, who intuitively grasp math, but can't verbally expain it, and your math grade should not depend on your ability to explain basic arithmetic in a series of sentences. It's pretty obvious that a kid who answers "10" understands the thought process, and one who gets a different answer doesn't. Whether or not they can explain it has a lot more to do with their verbal ability than their understanding of math.<br /><br />I am definielty concerned about what she will be learning, but with four kids, the youngest of whom is disabled, we don't have the time to teach them all math ourself because the schoolm district won't. Nor do we have the money to send four kids through private tutoring, so I'm not sure yet what we will do for the moment it's not a big problem, but it sounds like it's only a few years until the kids are way behind where they should be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76096072375089754582009-10-20T17:06:39.534-07:002009-10-20T17:06:39.534-07:00(continued...) As far as my daughter’s schedule, E...(continued...) As far as my daughter’s schedule, Eckstein arranged for her to miss her first two periods. I am not sure how this would have worked if I did not have a flexible work schedule and/or my daughter wasn’t close enough to walk/bike on her own, but it is working well for our family. I’m not sure what we’ll do when we get to high school, but we will definitely consider WAVA. <br /><br />My son is currently a 3rd-grader, and I imagine that we’ll do something similar with him. I plan to continue supplementing with Singapore at home while he’s in elementary (btw, he’s currently working on long division in the Singapore 3RD grade book); this is working fine for us. EDM isn’t great, but we concur that it’s better than TERC, so we’re feeling ok with how things are going so far(the worst part is that there are many more families out there who don’t have the means to supplement).Danahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12292048366484809829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79327842312950012952009-10-20T17:05:37.513-07:002009-10-20T17:05:37.513-07:00(cont...) As mentioned by someone else, WAVA uses ...(cont...) As mentioned by someone else, WAVA uses the Dolciani series for middle school math:<br /> * Pre-Algebra A (typically for WAVA’s 6th graders) uses Mathematics: Structure and Method Course 1<br /> * Pre-Algebra B (typically for 7th graders) uses Mathematics: Structure and Method Course 2. As someone mentioned, this is an old book, but it is still being printed (we received a brand new copy from WAVA) <br /> * Algebra (typically for 8th graders) uses Algebra: Structure and Method<br /><br />All of these textbooks received good reviews on Mathematically Correct, and the ones we've seen (the pre-algebra texts) seem like they provide a very solid foundation. My daughter is using the Pre Algebra B book, and we are very happy with it. I wouldn’t say that it’s visually appealing (colorful, pictures, etc), but this doesn’t seem t bother my daughter. In addition to basic math skills like fractions and operations with positive/negative numbers, these texts also cover many algebra topics, including basic mathematical properties (defined), isolating variables and simplifying equations, and performing operations on polynomials (factoring trinomials is an “extension” section). There is also a fair amount of geometry and statistics/probability (including permutations & combinations).<br /><br />WAVA is designed to allow a huge amount of flexibility. Kids take an online assessment at the beginning of the school year, and parents receive feedback on this within a couple of weeks. This can help in placement, but parents (within reason) can specify where they want their kid to begin. Before we received assessment results, we requested Pre-Algebra B, and there were no questions asked. There are about 180 lessons per yearlong course, and only 160 required lessons (the remaining 20 can be skipped or can be used for review, enrichment, catch-up, etc). If kids are knowledgeable with the content of a particular required lesson and don’t need more practice, they can skip the practice exercises and simply complete the assessment (usually 4-5 problems) to demonstrate competency. If kids finish a book by the end of March, WAVA will send them the next book.<br /><br />As part of WAVA, my daughter is required to have weekly contact with her WAVA teacher. This contact can take many forms (replying to a weekly question, attending an online conference-style lesson, emailing the teacher with questions). We are also required to conference with the teacher once every 3-4 weeks and send in samples of work every month or so. She will take the WASL-like test in the spring, but she will do so through WAVA (so I don’t think SPS will count her scores in their own statistics). <br /><br />WAVA, as a public school, is free. But, to participate in WAVA part-time we had to apply for cross-district dual enrollment. Unfortunately, this was not easy. The middle school WAVA is part of the Steilacoom School District (high school is with another district...can’t recall which one now), so SPS and Steilacoom must work out an agreement. Apparently, Seattle’s dual-enrollment policies are different from many other districts in the state, but, quite honestly, SPS’s enrollment office (and ultimately their legal office) was very helpful and responsive; our problems were with communicating with WAVA. But all worked out in the end. If anyone else plans to do this next year, I would recommend starting the enrollment process early in the summer.<br />(continued...)Danahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12292048366484809829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70667541325291783382009-10-20T17:01:48.583-07:002009-10-20T17:01:48.583-07:00My daughter is currently a 6th grader at Eckstein ...My daughter is currently a 6th grader at Eckstein and is taking math through WAVA (www.wava.org), an online public school affiliated with K12 (www.k12.com). She was in a Spectrum classroom last year so used the 6th- and some 7th-grade CMP booklets, and we had some major concerns about the texts. Although she did well in math last year (i.e., she would ultimately master the concepts), she was frequently frustrated by the books and seemed to learn the most when we worked together at home. We have been supplementing math with Singapore since she was in 3rd grade (her 1st/2nd grade teacher was so great with supplementing that we didn’t realize how horrible TERC was until 3rd grade), and I think she really would have struggled had she not had that foundation. <br />I have heard great things about Eckstein’s math program, so we had not planned on homeschooling math, hoping instead that the teachers would fill in the holes in CMP. We only stumbled upon WAVA as an option for math after we went looking for PE alternatives when we found out that Eckstein doesn’t grant 6th grade PE waivers. In addition to PE (where you simply report time spent in supervised physical activity), WAVA offers online classes in math and other “traditional” subjects.<br /><br />In making our decision about whether to use WAVA for math, the “pros” for us were: 1) rigorous materials (see below), 2) flexible pacing/ability to accelerate, 3) can tailor work/practice to my daughter’s needs, 4) no classroom down time, 5) late start at Eckstein (might be a con for some), 6) flexibility with when work gets done (very important for us, as it allows my daughter to maintain extra-curricular schedule), 7) no worries about incorrect placement by district/school test, 8) no worries about getting a poor match between a teacher and my daughter, 9) free<br /><br />The “cons” were: 1) time commitment (though, honestly, it’s not much more than what I put in before), 2) not in math class with peers (but she sees them every other period, so this is not really a problem, not to mention that she doesn’t have to contend with the “girls shouldn’t be good at math” stereotype)<br /><br />Our decision was pretty clear-cut. (continued)Danahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12292048366484809829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-55582467897452928342009-10-20T16:29:53.302-07:002009-10-20T16:29:53.302-07:00My kids do Kumon, and I wouldn't call it an al...My kids do Kumon, and I wouldn't call it an alternate curriculum. I can't see it standing on its own. There are no real story problems, it's just computational fluency. Which is a good complement to EDM and CMP. Great -- if you can squeeze out the $110 per kid per month (at U Village).<br /><br />What about the new "Math and Science" high school at Cleveland? If the district offered traditional math there -- and teachers who believe in traditional math -- I think families would love it and enrollment would go through the roof!Isabel D'Ambrosiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09425963902792586721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-51511968069284419052009-10-20T13:29:04.651-07:002009-10-20T13:29:04.651-07:00Ugh! How RIDICULOUS it is that we even must have ...Ugh! How RIDICULOUS it is that we even must have this discussion!<br /><br />Once again, those with means can pay for their own math if they don't like what the school offers. Is this what we pay taxes and support levies for? Exactly what business model are MGJ and her minions on the Board following where as the customers complain and complain, you simply give them more of what they are complaining about? <br /><br />What business would stay open a day operating like that? <br /><br />When will the outrages cease?wseadawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08750439461734046035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24920009052707995752009-10-20T11:59:15.023-07:002009-10-20T11:59:15.023-07:00Some teachers do work on computational fluency, bu...Some teachers do work on computational fluency, but there is a lot of pressure to spend class time keeping up with the EDM pacing guide.<br /><br />Before EDM, I knew of schools where every child had to be fluent with multiplication by the end of 3rd grade, long division by the end of 4th grade & fractions by the end of 5th grade. <br /><br />At least one of the schools that had grade level fluency expectations before EDM has dropped them. That is part of the curriculum standardization that really saddens me.<br /><br />It seems that it is up to parents, if they value computational fluency, to provide practice outside of school.<br /><br />I think that to be successful with algebra, students need to be able to calculate quickly & accurately when they solve equations.Rose Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06502791495668486857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91765486495781335282009-10-20T11:47:55.811-07:002009-10-20T11:47:55.811-07:00EDM does little to teach the traditional long divi...EDM does little to teach the traditional long division algorithm - their "focus algorithm" is the "partial quotients" algorithm. It is based on simple multiples of 2,5,and 10, since it is unlikely that kids will have mastered their multiplication/division facts in order to do the traditional algorithm (unless there's supplementation or help at home). EDM does not stress automaticity with math facts. The coverage of fractions is also pretty weak.<br /><br />How does this relate to middle school math? If kids don't have the basics of addition, subtraction, multiplication and division mastered by the end of elementary school, it becomes a roadblock for middle school math.<br /><br />Your child could be coasting along with EDM and you would be unaware that there are issues until they get to middle school. This is because EDM does not expect mastery - parents are reassured that it's ok if students "don't get it" the first time around because the topic will be introduced again later.SPS momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07868844486562389924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62212532986239507802009-10-20T11:44:47.071-07:002009-10-20T11:44:47.071-07:00Helen said "Lisa, I hate to say it, but my fo...Helen said "Lisa, I hate to say it, but my fourth-grader in regular classes was not even TAUGHT fractions and long division. You were lucky they were even on offer!"<br /><br /> Helen you are right! My oldest son had no long division or fractions until 5th grade. And in 5th grade only had a few weeks of long division, and fraction lessons! His class mainly focused on mastering their times table. This was pre-EDM and our school was using TURK, which was so horrendous it makes EDM look like the jackpot.<br /><br /> Worse, when my son went to middle school where they used CMP2 he was not taught long division, as kids were expected to have already mastered it. <br /><br /> Needless to say we taught him long division at home, but have been surprised at how little kids ever use long division with CMP2 and IntI. They did however get to use calculators in MS, maybe that was part of the problem.<br /><br /> Today my son is a freshman at Hale, a year ahead in math (taking Geometry) and on track to earn honors.<br /><br /> You can imagine my shock when a couple of weeks ago he was trying to help his younger brother with math homework and he said "Oh I can't help you with long division, I don't remember how to do that". When I questioned him it was true. He really had no clue how to do long division.<br /><br /> AARRGGHHHSPS parenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00766426598026724476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18106041082620982142009-10-20T11:35:25.761-07:002009-10-20T11:35:25.761-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.SPS parenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00766426598026724476noreply@blogger.com