tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post4914873979213487386..comments2024-03-27T20:01:11.889-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Tuesday Open ThreadMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71624601290037551832018-08-01T23:25:06.218-07:002018-08-01T23:25:06.218-07:00Thanks for the initiation us in these things.
www....Thanks for the initiation us in these things.<br /><a href="https://www.qcredit.pl" rel="nofollow">www.Qcredit.pl</a>BB.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11046294621847102058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-49494127612906472942017-07-27T18:41:33.515-07:002017-07-27T18:41:33.515-07:00Interesting article on Peer Tutoring: When is it S...Interesting article on <a href="http://nancyebailey.com/2017/07/26/peer-tutoring-when-is-it-student-exploitation/#comments" rel="nofollow">Peer Tutoring: When is it Student Exploitation?</a><br /><br />Kids who are ahead are often put to work as peer tutors in the gen ed classroom. Some of the kids being put to work this way in our district are as young as five and have received absolutely no pedagogical training and are not remunerated in any way for their work. Sometimes this goes really badly. Some of these kids skipped over phonics entirely and are autodidacts and may not understand what other students find so hard about learning to read. They can be prone to saying things along the lines of, "Come on, this is just a level A book. Just read the words. What are you, stupid?" Not gracious by any means. And certainly not the way any child deserves to learn. On the other hand, what do you expect when you hire a 5-year-old teacher to work pro-bono with absolutely no training? Peter R.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85120796035436609682017-07-26T18:48:37.188-07:002017-07-26T18:48:37.188-07:00Anon at 5:09, you don't have to be privy to ot...Anon at 5:09, you don't have to be privy to other students' scores to know that. If it's the top score possible (a perfect 800), others might have matched it, but none would have exceeded it. <br /><br />Parenting 2e<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71363228028387422702017-07-26T17:09:18.494-07:002017-07-26T17:09:18.494-07:00Not a single IB student scored higher than her on ...<i>Not a single IB student scored higher than her on the Evidence-Based Reading and Writing Section</i><br /><br />Aren't student scores private? How would a parent be privy to the scores of other students??<br /><br />As far as IB, it's kind of sink or swim, with little to no hand holding for anyone. The lack of support from the district, along with extra demands on teachers (some of whom cannot keep up with the IB workload themselves), makes for a very mixed experience. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88192997526688815842017-07-26T16:52:16.016-07:002017-07-26T16:52:16.016-07:00ANY course can be modified to be accessible to stu...ANY course can be modified to be accessible to students with IEPs. ANY. Yes, your child might then receive a CIA, certificate of individual achievement, instead of a CAA (certificate of academic achievement), but... so what? Your child can still take the course, learn based on individual needs, and receive credit. If a student with a disability can't do voluminous writing, that requirement can be reduced. If a student can only read half the reading, or needs to read different texts, those are all completely reasonable modifications. And yes, teachers can and do make these modifications all the time. It's true that a great many teachers don't believe it is part of their jobs. They are wrong. It is also true that a great many IEP teams think that barriers to participation and academic minimum requirements are acceptable barriers for students with disabilities. They are wrong too. If an iep team believes a class, ANY class, would be a benefit to students with disabilities then the school is mandated to make those modifications even if it means that the standards are drastically different for the disabled student than for the non disabled student. You can imagine (and I know of) students who are in advanced or regular education classes for the language or social goals, instead of for the academic goals. That too can be an appropriate and reasonable placement for a given student. It really is unconscionable to fail students, to the point of drop out, rather than make individualized accommodations and modifications. <br /><br />SpeddieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-90012663690387462942017-07-26T14:38:08.359-07:002017-07-26T14:38:08.359-07:00Sorry, IHS Parent,
I didn't mean to sound dis...Sorry, IHS Parent,<br /><br />I didn't mean to sound dismissive. I do support allowing modifications for credit in Seattle schools. <br /><br />-IHS tooAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43988703829676645912017-07-26T13:45:18.117-07:002017-07-26T13:45:18.117-07:00Please don't confuse volume with quality. My s...Please don't confuse volume with quality. My student who dropped out of IHS scored 1450 on the SAT with a perfect score of 800 on the Evidence-Based Reading and Writing Section. She failed several IB classes which led to her dropping out of IHS.<br /><br />Not a single IB student scored higher than her on the Evidence-Based Reading and Writing Section. <br /><br />IHS parent<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86116884637864357652017-07-26T13:33:38.849-07:002017-07-26T13:33:38.849-07:00It is not only Sped students but also quite a few ...It is not only Sped students but also quite a few HCC students who wash out of IB because of the work load. I believe that staff does try to council students to avoid the diploma if they think the students aren't able to handle the workload. Though taking only a class or two in IB should reduce the workload.<br /><br />Having said that doesn't diminish the fact the Sped students in this district do not get the services required by law. They are often pushed out not only academically but also by limited access to school activities. I like to believe this is mostly due to lack of funding, but honestly there is a lot of prejudice against students with disabilities. I have also dealt with teachers & school administrators who don't want my kid & who even punish because of disability. It is heartbreaking.<br /><br />The need for modifications though is actually a policy issue. A number of years ago, a Roosevelt administrator tried to explain to me that they could not modify curriculum without switching to a modified diploma. She said, "A credit has to mean something". But I can't figure out what it means. It doesn't mean a certain level of academic competence when so much credit is given for timeliness or organization or extra credit. It doesn't demonstrate how much a student learned when some students start the class already knowing the material. It's not about the amount of work, since students work different amounts to achieve the same thing. I don't see why students can't get credit for classes with modifications. At least the district could define it more specifically so that some kinds of modification could be provided for Sped students to access more classes.<br /><br />-IHS tooAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1673136410374258072017-07-26T12:25:32.680-07:002017-07-26T12:25:32.680-07:00Another 2E, I have a 2E as well. I didn't find...Another 2E, I have a 2E as well. I didn't find it difficult to get his 504 in high school enacted but then, we didn't ask for much. And, in the end, they still managed to do damage by allowing the yearbook staff to say something hurtful about him (this with 2 of the 3 yearbook advisors being his teachers and knowing his issue).<br /><br />I will always agree that Sped students seem to always get a lot of lip service but not much action on their behalf. I do think it's about the money but again, the district is supposed to serve all students and the state is supposed to supply that money. <br /><br />What's ironic is that many SPed students are students of color so there's another equity issue.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32680893405055626402017-07-26T12:02:32.206-07:002017-07-26T12:02:32.206-07:00I don't want it to seem we are trying to pile ...I don't want it to seem we are trying to pile on IB teachers at Ingraham but we had a similar experience where an IB teacher attended an IEP meeting to argue against our child attending her class. She made a valid argument that the shear volume of writing would make it impossible for our child to pass the class. <br /><br />The district special ed supervisor put the kibosh on the objection. Our child failed the class and summarily dropped out of high school.<br /><br />We were able to get her into a more appropriate setting outside of SPS.<br /><br />I don't recommend IB for students who can't produce the voluminous amount of work as it most likely will lead to further damage of their already damaged self esteem.<br /><br />For me it's hard to stomach all the social justice talk and closing the opportunity gap talk when in reality the district is only concerned with African American males improving or that's how I and my children interpret the SPS propaganda.<br /><br />The special ed students are just worthy of a diploma as any other group...maybe even more.<br /><br />Another 2e Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85693964875241099832017-07-26T11:42:49.009-07:002017-07-26T11:42:49.009-07:00She makes it clear that it would not be fair to no...<i>She makes it clear that it would not be fair to non IEP IB students if accommodations were made for IEP students...</i><br /><br />Argh! That's the sort of completely clueless comment that makes my blood boil. Flipping things around, is it fair to IEP students that the IB curriculum is designed for non-IEP students? <br /><br />Or how about, is it fair to IEP students that they have disabilities that make it much harder to do the same work as students who don't need IEPs? <br /><br />The district needs to do a much better job of making teachers understand that students who get accommodations and modifications aren't somehow "cheating" and getting an unfair advantage. Best case scenario is that the accommodations and/or modifications simply level the playing field. And as we all know, best case scenario is not the typical user experience in SPS. <br /><br />Parenting 2e Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5168241964001330172017-07-26T11:37:50.006-07:002017-07-26T11:37:50.006-07:00SPED Parent, I think you mistook what was said:
&...SPED Parent, I think you mistook what was said:<br /><br />"Any student at Ingraham can take IB classes.'<br /><br />Classes, not the entire IB courseload. RBHS has the same thing. Take an IB class for challenge and rigor but you don't have to do the entire program.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66699651008366263282017-07-26T11:09:46.720-07:002017-07-26T11:09:46.720-07:00IB does allow accommodations for students with dis...IB does allow accommodations for students with disabilities. The possible accommodations are outlined on the IBO website. I have proctored IB exams at Ingraham & have supervised different accommodations for a number of students, from transcription for a child with dysgraphia to snack time for a diabetic child to extra time for a child with dyslexia. <br /><br />Modifications are a different story. IB does not allow modifications to the work required for the diploma. However students can still participate in a class and learn the same material with modifications, just not get recognition from the IB organization. In Seattle high schools modifications for any class usually result in earning a modified diploma, not just IB. <br /><br />There are students with SLD's, ADHD & autism that are getting IB diplomas at Ingraham and have for several years. I can believe there is a teacher who is not excited about having Sped students in their classes, but you can't paint the whole school or the whole program with that brush. <br /><br />When my kid took IB class in the area of the SLD, accommodations were allowed and even adjusted as needed for my kid to succeed. My child did not ask for modifications, but a friend did. That student was able to be intellectually engaged at an advanced level and was willing to forgo the IB credit to have an opportunity to take the class.<br /><br />My SLD kid had only one year out of 9 in SPS where effective specially designed instruction was provided. That was in an honors class. Perhaps I am so jaded that just being allowed to participate in class, encouraged to use accommodations to achieve the most possible, challenged & encouraged by teachers instead of punished, made Ingraham IB a win for me.<br /><br />-IHS tooAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38204724691936968642017-07-26T10:36:09.612-07:002017-07-26T10:36:09.612-07:00Seriously SPS can't serve SLD students in Gen ...Seriously SPS can't serve SLD students in Gen ed. How would they ever be able to serve them in an IB program. <br /><br />Sped2Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39617284139027931472017-07-26T10:32:23.767-07:002017-07-26T10:32:23.767-07:00I believe you are wrong about inclusion of SPED in...I believe you are wrong about inclusion of SPED in IB at Ingraham. We have heard that IB will not change the required writing workload to accommodate SLD students. The school's excuse is that Ingraham doesn't control the IB requirements the IB governing body does and the writing workload is a key component of IB. <br /><br />There are NO accommodations made for students who can not produce the required volume of writing. In fact there is a document available via FOIA request that shows an Ingraham High school teacher describing why an IEP student should not be in her class. She makes it clear that it would not be fair to non IEP IB students if accommodations were made for IEP students nor does she believe she is required to modify the IB curriculum and student assignments.<br /><br />The document is from 2016, so maybe things have changed, but I seriously doubt it.<br /><br />The entire IB program is discriminatory against special educational students. For SLD students it would be next to impossibly earn an IB diploma under the current IB program. <br /><br />SPED Parent Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-4292038806048358852017-07-26T09:14:29.170-07:002017-07-26T09:14:29.170-07:00It seems that no matter how you slice it, it's...It seems that no matter how you slice it, it's always those "smart" kids who are the problem. They just act so damn superior, and/or make others feel inferior! If you have an IB program--even it it's open to anyone!--it's still a problem, because it creates more of an elitist attitude or something. AP-heavy schools like Garfield have the same problem, that divide between the high-performing and lower-performing students and the classes they qualify for and/or select. But does anyone really think you're going to find a comprehensive public high school where all students are performing at the same level, and some don't feel academically inferior/superior? Artistically inferior/superior? Socially inferior/superior? Financially inferior/superior? Athletically inferior/superior? Etc.? That seems silly to me, and <br /><br />wishful thinkingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9968015995847700862017-07-26T07:22:16.004-07:002017-07-26T07:22:16.004-07:00Any student at Ingraham can take IB classes. Incl...Any student at Ingraham can take IB classes. Including my sped kid, who has been encouraged by IB teachers to take the classes. (One actually came to an iep meeting to encourage that.) Other students I know have been encouraged to take IB classes with curricular modifications. You won't see that in many of our high schools. That could not happen if IB is moved off site. I think all kids deserve to have access to advanced courses. <br /><br />I have had other kids in different Seattle high schools. I think there will always be cliques in any high school, Varsity vs JV football, Jazz 1 that travels to NY vs Jazz 2 that goes to Idaho. The Roosevelt newspaper had a story a couple of years ago about a girl who moved to Hale because of similar social exclusion by the student council. Often the ‘chosen group’ will be seen as preferred by the coach/teacher. Sometimes that is true. And there will probably always be teachers who have favorites. <br /><br />But my experience with Ingraham is that staff and parents work hard to make it one school. If you look at the population of student council or the homecoming court you will see academic diversity. When the pep band plays during basketball season, instead of playing at every varsity game, they go to couple of each Varsity, JV, Men’s, Women’s & Special Olympics games. There are several all-school activities annually, like the back to school BBQ where staff works extra hard to get underrepresented families to come and teachers come to man the grills, including IB teachers. The Multicultural dinner is organized & staffed by the teachers, including IB teachers, for Ingraham families and most participating families are not IB families. Teachers, including IB teachers,& staff also attend sports games, concerts, plays, etc even when they are not the mentor for the group. (I sat next to the school nurse at an event last year.) They do this because they are invested in their students & see the school as a community.<br /><br />The groups of teenagers who hung out at my house from Ingraham included IB diploma, gen ed, full time running start, sped & kids taking a mix of courses. They chose to be together socially & they treated their different academic choices the same way as the choice of band vs baseball vs photography club.<br /><br />Compared to other Seattle high schools my kids have attended, my experience is that there is a lot less gatekeeping and an intentional goal of Ingraham staff to make the school a community for all students<br /><br />-IHS too<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19616755386164092262017-07-25T23:22:27.635-07:002017-07-25T23:22:27.635-07:00Lincoln should be an international school with Lan...Lincoln should be an international school with Language Immersion continued on from Stanford and McDonald, IB, IBX, and HCC. <br /><br />Problem solvedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31232549952058723492017-07-25T17:37:51.474-07:002017-07-25T17:37:51.474-07:00@ Melissa-- " Honestly, it would just be bet...@ Melissa-- " Honestly, it would just be better to have separate HCC schools for all the grief it seems to cause all around. Charlie used to advocate for this as well. What's interesting is that many schools seem glad to get IB and then become unhappy (well, except for Rainier Beach where you don't hear any of this,hmmm)."<br /><br />I agree with your comments. <br />-Karen Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19710979195097469362017-07-25T17:36:22.537-07:002017-07-25T17:36:22.537-07:00Big Picture, right. If HCC left Garfield, that wo...Big Picture, right. If HCC left Garfield, that would be a big change for that school. Clearly, there are some who would say good riddance but the changes would be profound.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6438197890963953912017-07-25T17:30:37.317-07:002017-07-25T17:30:37.317-07:00If students weren't bused to Ingraham, IHS wou...If students weren't bused to Ingraham, IHS would be underenrolled and neighboring schools would be even more overcrowded. Let's remember IBX was created as a capacity solution. Are there enough neighborhood students in the Ingraham boundaries to fill the school? A majority of the non-neighborhood students are from Ballard, Hale and Roosevelt assignment areas. IHS will soon have a 500 student addition, and they won't suddenly have 500 more students in the draw area. <br /><br />big pictureAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41726643576172466262017-07-25T16:08:12.721-07:002017-07-25T16:08:12.721-07:00From someone who has no skin in the game, I'd ...From someone who has no skin in the game, I'd like to gently remind some parents that most of those IB kids were likely bullied at some point for being nerds. So some then turn into bullies themselves - this is shocking to anyone? I'm just getting a weird vibe from some posts, like IB kids invented bullying. <br /><br />-Pollyanna Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6176108865038683332017-07-25T15:44:12.779-07:002017-07-25T15:44:12.779-07:00IHS, if only someone would listen. Honestly, it w...IHS, if only someone would listen. Honestly, it would just be better to have separate HCC schools for all the grief it seems to cause all around. Charlie used to advocate for this as well. What's interesting is that many schools seem glad to get IB and then become unhappy (well, except for Rainier Beach where you don't hear any of this,hmmm). Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-60542887572787092542017-07-25T15:33:43.867-07:002017-07-25T15:33:43.867-07:00I can add that this is true,
Our daughter is lea...I can add that this is true, <br /><br />Our daughter is leaving Ingraham due to this exact issue. Many of her friends left for running start to avoid the IB cliche. I think it's best to create one and IB school centrally located and bus students there. I think a large percentage of the Ingraham IB students are bused in which breaks down the local feel.<br /><br />IHS Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-55616924762021116772017-07-25T15:19:52.508-07:002017-07-25T15:19:52.508-07:00Not sure how this became a "let's blame H...Not sure how this became a "let's blame HCC" discussion...again. I could not speak to Parent's claims, but can tell you some teachers help fan the flames and speak disparagingly of HCC students. <br /><br />getting oldAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com