tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post4920401087569192586..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Sherry Carr Meeting and Transition PlanMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger60125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29780377499193365002010-01-19T18:45:25.243-08:002010-01-19T18:45:25.243-08:00The opportunity to maintain APP eligibility by enr...The opportunity to maintain APP eligibility by enrolling at a neighborhood school with either Spectrum or an ALO is one thing in the north-end where 80% of schools have one or the other. It is another thing south of downtown. The only elementary advanced learning programs in the Southeast cluster are a Spectrum program at Wing Luke and a new ALO at Graham Hill. The only elementary advanced learning programs in the South cluster are Spectrum at Muir and an ALO at Thurgood Marshall. The only elementary advanced learning programs in the Central cluster are Spectrum at Leschi and the new ALO at Lowell. The only advanced learning programs in the West Seattle-North cluster are the Spectrum programs at Lafayette and West Seattle (no ALOs). There are no advanced learning programs in the West Seattle-South cluster.<br /><br />If you live south of downtown and your child is APP-eligible, it is very unlikely that you will be able preserve the eligibility at your neighborhood school.<br /><br />Yes, the New Student Assignment Plan calls for every elementary school to have an ALO - EVENTUALLY. They will NOT all have them next year. Nor will they all have one the year after that or the year after that. Even if they SAY they have an ALO, there is absolutely no quality assurance. Even if they make promises about what their program will offer there is no way to make them keep those promises.<br /><br />Why would you take a check from these people when you already have six of their checks taped to your cash register?Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-12334686917449601202010-01-19T07:45:31.607-08:002010-01-19T07:45:31.607-08:00Elementary students who test into APP maintain the...Elementary students who test into APP maintain their status if they are in a school with formal ALO and they continue to show they work a grade ahead on their ALO report card. I was surprised to find a child could test in kindergarten and maintain status via ALO until middle school! Transfering in at middle school may be a better time to transition students who need more academically but are otherwise doing well in the classroom test in later (2nd, 3rd, 4th). And now its a way out of a less desirable middle school for APP qualified students - though their sibs won't automatically follow.<br /><br />Look for Hamilton to get popular very quickly.sixwrenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10692385606408766285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62904466317925514122010-01-19T00:42:03.910-08:002010-01-19T00:42:03.910-08:00Students who remain enrolled in an ALO school, a S...<i>Students who remain enrolled in an ALO school, a Spectrum program, or the Accelerated Progress Program retain their academically gifted or academically highly gifted designations through the eighth grade.</i><br /><br />Wow, I completely missed this! I haven't read the discussions about this but it seems that it's another step towards diluting the APP program so they can move it to lots of schools, like Spectrum.<br /><br />The whole point of APP was to have a cohort learning specific things at a specific time . . . with every ALO different, and different methods of learning and acceleration being used district-wide, how can they be sure that a student who's stayed at his local elementary, using ALO, has learned what's necessary to join APP in 6th grade? <br /><br />Am I missing something?<br /><br />stuStuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11769983958729170219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53632496296964972782010-01-18T21:48:09.391-08:002010-01-18T21:48:09.391-08:00Stu, Lori's right. Been discussed on the app d...Stu, Lori's right. Been discussed on the app discussion blog. Check the SPS website for verification.<br /><br />You either need to enter APP in middle school OR attend a K8 ALO, in which case you maintain eligibility? I can't remember that part for sure. <br /><br />Yup, Hamilton is going to be a much more attractive app middle school for north end families. Look for it to fill. Look for that to impact Garfield as well.Dorothy Nevillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17108759281089768738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-48133522245668793382010-01-18T21:23:22.781-08:002010-01-18T21:23:22.781-08:00Stu, all elementary schools are supposed to have f...Stu, all elementary schools are supposed to have formal ALO programs in place by the fall. We've been told that APP-qualified kids who choose not to go to Lowell but instead participate in a formal ALO program and receive some sort of ALO report card (instead of the regular report card, I think) can in fact enter the APP cohort for middle school without retesting. If you don't have a formal ALO program or if you go private and try to re-enter SPS later, you need to re-test.<br /><br />It's late, and I'm tired, but I think this is what I heard at our school a few weeks ago, where they are developing a formal ALO for the first time. <br /><br />If true, and every school has a formal ALO from this fall forward, perhaps there will be more APP-qualified kids in the north end and elsewhere who don't want to commute to Lowell but do want to be part of Hamilton for middle school.Lorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07777580098975083499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40415324420215283762010-01-18T21:11:31.694-08:002010-01-18T21:11:31.694-08:00My understanding is that you can maintain your APP...<i> My understanding is that you can maintain your APP status if you are in an ALO program at an elementary (sorry, not AOL) and then transfer into APP at Hamilton or Washington. Maybe I am incorrect about this, but this seems to be what sixwrens is saying as well.</i><br /><br />I never heard this . . . anyone? <br /><br /> It's my understanding that, if you test into APP, you have one year of eligibility. If you don't go, you can't go the following year unless you retest. The ALO thing doesn't make sense to me, since some schools don't have an ALO program and I know that kids in Spectrum, which is an advanced program, can't just move to APP.<br /><br />stuStuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11769983958729170219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6147038434346603692010-01-18T14:08:54.548-08:002010-01-18T14:08:54.548-08:00the district pits parents against each other. I un...the district pits parents against each other. I understand wanting to keep sufficient numbers of JSIS students together to allow immersion learning. I also think that APP kids that choose to transition into the program at middle school should have priority. The transition in middle school can make sense when academic needs (1 grade level of advancement) are met at the elementary school.<br /><br />The problem is 2 programs in one school. APP and international student families shouldn't have to duke it out for who gets in first.sixwrenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10692385606408766285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87600045933008277392010-01-18T13:34:11.979-08:002010-01-18T13:34:11.979-08:00Stu -- My understanding is that you can maintain y...Stu -- My understanding is that you can maintain your APP status if you are in an ALO program at an elementary (sorry, not AOL) and then transfer into APP at Hamilton or Washington. Maybe I am incorrect about this, but this seems to be what sixwrens is saying as well. <br /><br />I agree that anyone at Lowell in APP should have priority at Hamilton even if they are outside the attendence area. But I question the fairness in giving kids who qualified for APP but opted to stay at neighborhood elementary (and live in another middle school area) priority at Hamilton over the JSIS kids who also live outside the area. The JSIS kids are at least part of a cohort, and a small one at that. You need some sort of critical mass to keep the immersion classes going there.WallingfordMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02402684896296359495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-78666016346335866222010-01-18T13:19:05.695-08:002010-01-18T13:19:05.695-08:00From North End Mom: The sibling grandfathering da...From North End Mom: The sibling grandfathering data analysis is now posted online under the Transition Plan item on the agenda:<br />http://www.seattleschools.org/area/board/09-10agendas/012010agenda/nsapmemorandum.pdf<br /><br />I just read through most of this information and it is appalling to me. Did the district not foresee any of these issues when they drew the NSAP boundaries? It seems like the data they used to create boundaries was outdated. What the district really should do is NOT implement the NSAP until the Fall of 2011 so they can more accurately draw boundaries based on capacity issues and projected attendance.This seems ludicrous to adopt new boundaries only to maybe have them change several times over the course of the next few years because the attendance projections they used were inadequate. This is definitely NOT the predictability parents are looking for. Or is the district too vain to put the brakes on this for the time being? I support attending neighborhood schools, but not when it is going to have such a huge and unsettling impact on our kids.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17444660757190318548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-44943152730339995112010-01-18T12:34:21.829-08:002010-01-18T12:34:21.829-08:00It seems a bit unfair to me to give priority to AP...<i>It seems a bit unfair to me to give priority to APP eligible students enrolled in an AOL (but not attending Lowell) priority to Hamilton but deny the JSIS students not in the Hamilton reference area that are clearly already part of a cohort.</i><br /><br />I misread this a few times but finally figured it out . . .wanted to post something to clarify what's going on. <br /><br />Students who are in Spectrum or AOL programs can not advance to APP at Hamilton without actually testing into the program. Students test in to APP in all different grade levels; if a student doesn't take the test 'til 5th grade, they can still get into Hamilton or Washington 'cause those are the only middle school APP programs.<br /><br />I know some families, who are happy with their neighborhood elementary school, who have their children test every year just to keep their eligibility for APP. They had planned to move their child to APP before they even knew that it was going to be closer than WMS.<br /><br />It was probably semantics but it was reading to me like you were saying any "advanced learning" student could go to Hamiltion.<br /><br />stuStuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11769983958729170219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1658614703413979542010-01-18T12:24:10.079-08:002010-01-18T12:24:10.079-08:00I posted this on the Board Meeting Agenda thread, ...I posted this on the Board Meeting Agenda thread, but it belongs here, as well:<br /><br />The sibling grandfathering data analysis is now posted online under the Transition Plan item on the agenda:<br />http://www.seattleschools.org/area/board/09-10agendas/012010agenda/nsapmemorandum.pdfNorth End Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781046556751463879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81624507274875996512010-01-18T10:58:27.855-08:002010-01-18T10:58:27.855-08:00sixwrens, the cynic in me says that SPS doesn'...sixwrens, the cynic in me says that SPS doesn't think much beyond 1 year or so when filling schools. My first grader was part of a bubble that needed 5xK classes. Those kids are now in 4x1st grades, and there is talk that it might be 3x2nd grades next year. Class size seems to be irrelevant any more. They're gonna do what it takes to make it work, even if that means 30+ kids/class with no PCP rooms, so the kids are crammed into their homeroom with nowhere else to go during the day except recess and, a few days per month, gym.<br /><br />I posted a question on Harium's blog this morning to ask if we can find out which schools are talking about this option (half-day K) and how and when parents would be notified. What's strange to me is that this option was not in the earlier version of the transition plan. Someone, somewhere, decided to add it, which strongly suggests that there is at least one principal out there with whom it has been discussed. <br /><br />Here's the whole section:<br /><br /><i>Consult with principals about possibilities for creating temporary surge capacity. Where there are significant capacity challenges, the extent of surge capacity will likely require such steps as, for example:<br /><br />Using most or all PCP rooms for regular classrooms.<br /><br />Using libraries part of the day for part-time resource, ELL, or itinerant services.<br /><br />Using child care space during the day for other purposes.<br /><br />Not renewing leases with outside groups that provide preschool programs.<br /><br />Converting computer labs to mobile labs.<br /><br />Putting portables on playground space.<br /><br />Eliminating full-day K classes (including Pay for K), and offering only half-day K classes at some schools.<br /><br />Filling classes to contractual limits at the beginning of the year (to provide more K seats and to condense number of homerooms needed at upper grades). This implies being prepared to pay overload costs if needed over the course of the year.</i>Lorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07777580098975083499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-2139552162221767242010-01-18T09:48:14.825-08:002010-01-18T09:48:14.825-08:00The JSIS/Hamilton feeder issue will likely work it...The JSIS/Hamilton feeder issue will likely work itself out once the current group of students at JSIS all reach Hamilton, since JSIS will likely fill from its own reference area from now on. <br /><br />It seems a bit unfair to me to give priority to APP eligible students enrolled in an AOL (but not attending Lowell) priority to Hamilton but deny the JSIS students not in the Hamilton reference area that are clearly already part of a cohort.WallingfordMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02402684896296359495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35261990608796414282010-01-18T09:20:26.323-08:002010-01-18T09:20:26.323-08:00And so you see, to my mind, a major flaw in how th...And so you see, to my mind, a major flaw in how the thinking is in this district. They cannot see down the road. "What are the possible outcomes to this decision?" I have said and I'll say again, I believe many program placement decisions are starting to be made on building condition. It seems if you were thinking about it, you wouldn't move one program (APP) into a school that is already a feeder school for another program (foreign language immersion). (Yes, Hamilton is close to JSIS but again, are you doing the best thing for all 3 populations - attendance area, foreign language immersion and APP)? I think a lot of district decisions come with a shrug "it'll work itself out".Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31495639163879960882010-01-18T09:08:00.289-08:002010-01-18T09:08:00.289-08:00Re: Hamilton APP. I think it's not uncommon fo...Re: Hamilton APP. I think it's not uncommon for APP kids in strong north end elementaries with true ALO offerings to stay put and maintain APP status. I would expect many of these kids to rise into Hamilton. Agree that this will negatively affect the feeder tiebreaker for all Hamilton area schools, with a potentially big impact on the language immersion program.sixwrenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10692385606408766285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79546613847611899102010-01-18T08:59:18.713-08:002010-01-18T08:59:18.713-08:00Eliminating full day K and replacing each class wi...Eliminating full day K and replacing each class with 2 1/2-day K's would not solve the incoming K problem. There would be twice as many kids moving into 1st and where would you put them?sixwrenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10692385606408766285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20102318180412694562010-01-17T23:57:09.763-08:002010-01-17T23:57:09.763-08:00The problem with the feeder school tiebreaker for ...The problem with the feeder school tiebreaker for JSIS is that incoming 6th graders are after APP, attendance area and siblings. APP is the unknown, as it's not clear how many 5th graders not going to Lowell will qualify and choose Hamilton. It is possible with a location north of the ship canal that the numbers will go up. Further, recent experience tells us that new buildings have historically gotten higher numbers of enrollees than in previous years. <br /><br />The worry is that with 37% of the class being outside of the Hamilton service area, there will only be 15 kids in each 6th grade immersion language class. What kind of support can a school give to a program with such small numbers? In the current era of budget cuts, can that be supported? In the coming years, I don't think it will be much of a problem as there won't be many people who try to get a student into JSIS who doesn't live in the Hamilton attendance area.Tami Okihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05128028804121676153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-16163771202946199112010-01-17T23:31:11.622-08:002010-01-17T23:31:11.622-08:00Exactly Melissa, exactly.
Actually, you have to g...Exactly Melissa, exactly.<br /><br />Actually, you have to go into the agenda, select the transition plan and then click on THAT link to find it.<br /><br />Helpful, eh?! Excellent public notification!Central Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411595538958030193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35534879719795490962010-01-17T22:49:33.215-08:002010-01-17T22:49:33.215-08:00Central Mom,
The original, older draft version of ...Central Mom,<br />The original, older draft version of the Transition Plan for 2010-11 is still on the SAP webpage, under Implementation. That was what I was warning readers about- it's still not been updated to the newer version, so even though it is on the SAP Implementation webpage, do not use it:<br />http://www.seattleschools.org/area<br />/implementation/index.dxmlSPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12726295210572942506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35893899441131963112010-01-17T22:34:49.471-08:002010-01-17T22:34:49.471-08:00Of course, Central Mom, that's the first place...Of course, Central Mom, that's the first place I'd look on the website for it.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21389221691782771502010-01-17T22:03:14.028-08:002010-01-17T22:03:14.028-08:00Seattle Parent///
The new transition plan is attac...Seattle Parent///<br />The new transition plan is attached to the board agenda. It's not on the SAP page.Central Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411595538958030193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11329859053567555832010-01-17T21:41:52.903-08:002010-01-17T21:41:52.903-08:00Maureen & Seattle,
The unfortunate thing is th...Maureen & Seattle,<br />The unfortunate thing is that the older draft version of that document is still posted online, under the SAP Transition page. They added a different new document, "Follow-up to Transition Plan Questions and Recommended Changes", but didn't update the one you are talking about which is now included in the agenda to be vote on (with all of the considerable changes).<br /><br />Do be aware that Steve Sundquist said at his Saturday meeting that more documents will be posted on the SAP Transition website before Wed.'s vote, including placement and timing of Spectrum programs and other enrollment projections from the district.SPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12726295210572942506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50028248500366355162010-01-17T21:41:50.888-08:002010-01-17T21:41:50.888-08:00DJ I was originally responding to Dan Dempseys pos...DJ I was originally responding to Dan Dempseys post that said that if the district limited transportation to only your neighborhood school then only families with money for transportation could escape bad schools. To that I say, no, not true. As I listed, they could move. And, yes, I know there is a process and there are waitlists, but we do have the capcity to plan, no? If there is a one year waitlist then you apply a year before your kid goes to kindergarten or at worst you kid goes to the crappy school for one year and you move as soon as your waitlist clears. It can be done. <br /><br />And no, DJ, of course kids don't make the decision to move to housing near better schools. But neither do they make the decision to participate in open enrollment (still necessary for choice in the new SAP), or to try for one of the 10% lottery seats at a better high school, or an option school. They don't decided to get themselves tested for APP, or Spectrum either. <br /><br />Making these decisions are a parents responsibility, whether low income or wealthy.seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87384206921352462562010-01-17T21:36:01.341-08:002010-01-17T21:36:01.341-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89555619883082386532010-01-17T20:52:41.249-08:002010-01-17T20:52:41.249-08:00Ann, you are missing the point, in my view.
Kids ...Ann, you are missing the point, in my view.<br /><br />Kids don't make decisions about where they live. To the extent that (let's just assume you are entirely correct about this) parents have the flexibility to move near good schools, kids don't. Kids can't take responsibility for finding new housing and making sure they can access good schools.djhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01720927162286657378noreply@blogger.com