tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post495762120359392031..comments2024-03-18T16:51:10.406-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Get Rid of Public Schools? Parent vs Superintendent over Opting Out? Required ReadingMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23742126162357324052015-02-23T23:03:20.865-08:002015-02-23T23:03:20.865-08:00Has anyone gotten Amplify test results for their c...Has anyone gotten Amplify test results for their children? My child has taken several tests this year, but we've never seen the results. We aren't even notified of testing days should we want to opt out. <br /><br />-testyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65716567398221362222015-02-23T22:43:27.486-08:002015-02-23T22:43:27.486-08:00Thanks for the info Ivan.Thanks for the info Ivan.Linh-Conoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-913241273814496292015-02-23T17:52:23.275-08:002015-02-23T17:52:23.275-08:00Linh-Co:
She front-loaded all her classes at Nort...Linh-Co:<br /><br />She front-loaded all her classes at North for early in the morning, then bused to Hale for lunch, spent the rest of the school day doing her college work in the Hale Library (on her own laptop with her own account), then participated in Drama for thosee two years.<br /><br />In short, she did everything at Hale but attend classes. She enjoyed the full social life. Her eagerness to accept the (far) higher-level and more challenging work than she would have gotten in AP at Hale earned her a full tuition and fees scholarship to UW. She graduated UW two years ago with two majors and a 3.5 GPA, and she tells me today that she owed it all to Running Start.<br /><br />-- Ivan Weiss <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83492451593217127192015-02-23T17:20:57.364-08:002015-02-23T17:20:57.364-08:00@Ivan
After your daughter went to full time Runni...@Ivan<br /><br />After your daughter went to full time Running Start, did she still do after school sport or joined school clubs? I'm wondering if these students are still expected to do all the extra-curricular activities to beef up their college applications.Linh-Conoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85433862219323834912015-02-23T17:09:46.763-08:002015-02-23T17:09:46.763-08:00Having read through this entire thread, all I can ...Having read through this entire thread, all I can say is thank goodness my daughter went straight from 10th grade to a full load of Running Start classes, and avoided all this nonsense.<br /><br />-- Ivan Weiss Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-338726684828040542015-02-23T13:30:40.416-08:002015-02-23T13:30:40.416-08:00So say a parent was less than impressed with the d...So say a parent was less than impressed with the district's math curricula, so always provided their own lessons at home. Maybe bought some workbooks, got the kid hooked up with some online resources, etc. Next thing you know, the kid is working several grades ahead in math. When they take those grade-level standardized assessments, they naturally score pretty high. Looks like the school and teacher are doing great work, when in reality, they would likely have scored just as high if they'd taken that assessment at the beginning of the year, prior to the standard instruction. <br /><br />There are a lot of kids working above grade level in math and/or English--and a lot of frustrated parents taking on the role of part-time educator. If kids are exceeding standards, there's a good chance it's not due to the work of classroom teachers--who are generally only teaching up to the standards. At least that's been our experience. <br /><br />And re: the .8 FTE requirement, doesn't that mean single-subject homeschooled kids would be included in the school's data--whether or not your kid has ever taken that subject at that school--unless you opt out?<br /><br />HIMSmom<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47695129719436996052015-02-23T12:12:24.785-08:002015-02-23T12:12:24.785-08:00Students enrolled less than .8 FTE, regardless of ...Students enrolled less than .8 FTE, regardless of whether they are homeschooled, private school, or ALE are not counted in a school or district's AYP calculations.<br /><br />From the OSPI Adequate Yearly Progress Questions and Answers document:<br /><br />Are home-based students and those from private schools who take the MSP/HSPE/EOC included in AYP?<br /><br />No. Students enrolled less than .8 FTE in a public school or ALE program do not need to take the MSP/HSPE/EOC. If they test, their results are not included in any AYP calculations. (WAC 392-121-182)<br /><br />--- swkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91974835570128904212015-02-23T11:59:55.924-08:002015-02-23T11:59:55.924-08:00Hmm...that WAC reference is for ALE (Alternative L...Hmm...that WAC reference is for ALE (Alternative Learning Experience) students. While a student enrolled in Cascade Parent Partnership (CPP) falls under the ALE umbrella, a part-time enrolled student falls under WAC 392-134-010 and if they've filed a "Declaration of Intent to Provide Home Based Instruction," they also must comply with WA State homeschool requirements. Some part-time enrolled students are private school students. <br /><br /> http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=392-134-010<br /><br />-opt out?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15068735544742840982015-02-23T11:20:46.574-08:002015-02-23T11:20:46.574-08:00opt out?, students enrolled less than .8 FTE but w...opt out?, students enrolled less than .8 FTE but who might have taken the state assessments for whatever reason are not included in the school's accountability calculations per WAC 392-121-182.<br /><br />--- swkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84931237706551078862015-02-23T10:42:01.241-08:002015-02-23T10:42:01.241-08:00Part-time attendance means a student is enrolled w...Part-time attendance means a student is enrolled with the district, but homeschools part time and attends school part time. They are enrolled students and can take 1 class or any combination of classes offered to students at their school. If they take the standardized assessments at their school, they are most likely included in the school's data.<br /><br />opt out?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17549281443410417062015-02-23T08:29:13.264-08:002015-02-23T08:29:13.264-08:00Meant to say that their "scores" too are...Meant to say that their "scores" too are not included in a school's performance.<br /><br />--- swkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35839122004312144202015-02-23T08:26:43.512-08:002015-02-23T08:26:43.512-08:00opt out?, your homeschooled children's scores ...opt out?, your homeschooled children's scores were not factored into the school' scores. Those students who take the assessment at a given school but are not enrolled in that school are not part of the data file from which a school's proficiency rates are calculated.<br /><br />Students enrolled in a public online school have to take their tests at a physical location. Their schools too are not included in a school's performance.<br /><br />--- swkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-69091641130847805652015-02-23T08:21:49.119-08:002015-02-23T08:21:49.119-08:00HIMSmom, it would be difficult to assign a student...HIMSmom, it would be difficult to assign a student's achievement on a large-scale summative assessment to tutoring, supplemental support, etc. In other words, if a student meets standard or exceeds standard on an assessment, it would be hard to conclude that the tutoring is the factor that most strongly correlates to or predicts their performance. And given the number of students being assessed within a school, it completely dilutes that factor, if it is a factor at all, as a determining influence on the school's overall performance.<br /><br />So, no, I wouldn't suggest that students who receive outside tutoring, etc. be exempted from the assessments.<br /><br />--- swkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-61504812037604217752015-02-23T08:16:41.989-08:002015-02-23T08:16:41.989-08:00Our child homeschooled for math and still took the...Our child homeschooled for math and still took the state tests. For homeschoolers, WA requires an annual standardized achievement test (MSP was free to us) or an independent assessment ($). The MSP score reflected what was learned outside of school, yet the results got lumped into the school's results. In the same way, my child's reading scores are strongly tied to the volume of reading done outside of class. <br /><br />Should I opt my child out of the tests so I don't skew the data? <br /><br />If my child were a junior in high school and the SBAC was not required for graduation (as for this year's students that have passed the EOCs), we would not hesitate to opt out. The SAT and ACT will provide ample feedback.<br /><br /><i>But there will be many, many more students for whom the results of this test will provide valuable information about their college readiness.</i><br /><br />Having read some released sample questions, I am not convinced they will be a meaningful measure. The SBAC tests look hateful. One year I viewed my child's MSP tests and I found them fairly straightforward, with few ambiguous or convoluted questions. Washington's old math standards were strong and the tests seemed a fair assessment of a basic understanding of those standards. I can't say the same of the SBAC samples I've seen. It's all speculation, however, until students have taken the tests. <br /><br />opt out?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59333120616469064752015-02-23T05:54:08.812-08:002015-02-23T05:54:08.812-08:00Exempting high-performing students invalidates the...<i>Exempting high-performing students invalidates the results and gives a false sense of these results and the performance of the school.</i><br /><br />swk, including them can also distort results. Based on your concern, would you suggest, then, that kids who get outside tutoring or whose parents have supplemented their education not take the tests? If the tests are supposed to tell us about the performance of the school, including those kids would misrepresent what's happening in the classroom. (And yes, I opted my child out of MAP tests for this reason--his scores reflected independent study, not anything he learned at school.) <br /><br />If these tests are supposed to show how well schools are doing , then shouldn't the analysis somehow account for how well-prepared kids are when they arrived, and any additional preparation they've had since? To what extent do these scores really reflect the teaching and learning that happens on site, vs. other student-level factors? <br /><br />HIMSmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40917234725357513882015-02-22T21:18:47.449-08:002015-02-22T21:18:47.449-08:00swk,
Students at the UW can use SAT or ACT scores...swk,<br /><br />Students at the UW can use SAT or ACT scores to fulfill the English Language Proficiency Requirement. AP Calculus and IB Higher Math scores can be used for UW math placement. <br /><br />My child will have other test scores that exempt her from remedial math courses in college. She'll have AP exams to study for during the weeks the SBAC will be given this year. Finally, she will lose over 30 hours of instruction this year so that other students can take standardized tests. We won't be volunteering for the SBAC.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86324775617532546362015-02-22T19:23:37.018-08:002015-02-22T19:23:37.018-08:00HIMSmom, I would agree that there will be students...HIMSmom, I would agree that there will be students for whom the 11th grade SBAC assessments will provide little to no predictive value of their college readiness.<br /><br />But there will be many, many more students for whom the results of this test will provide valuable information about their college readiness.<br /><br />Regardless, it is my belief, informed by my own experience/career, research, and education, that statewide standardized tests provide policymakers, taxpayers, educators, parents, and students valuable information about our public schools. And that the participation of nearly all students, excluding students with significant cognitive disabilities, in these assessments is critical to capturing this information. Exempting high-performing students invalidates the results and gives a false sense of these results and the performance of the school.<br /><br />With that said, I have no problem with parents opting their children out of the tests. I wholeheartedly believe in that right.<br /><br />--- swkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23549058865583100222015-02-22T19:01:59.237-08:002015-02-22T19:01:59.237-08:00@ swk, but don't you think this is a waste of ...@ swk, but don't you think this is a waste of time for many students? There are a lot of kids who aren't in any danger of needing remedial courses, and who will be able to avoid placement testing altogether (e.g., via AP or IB scores, college courses in high school, etc.). What exactly is the benefit of this additional standardized testing for these kids?<br /><br /><i>"This agreement is intended to use the Smarter Balanced Assessment as a way to help high school students avoid additional placement testing and prepare for college. However, students who feel this approach does not serve their needs may also choose other methods as defined by local colleges and universities to place into the appropriate level of college course, including traditional placement tests, transcripts, or completing dual enrollment,<br />college-credit courses in high school. For example, a student who scores at a level 3 or 4 might wish to place into a higher-level of course than established under this agreement. In this case, the student might choose to pursue traditional placement testing."</i><br /><br />HIMSmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-4244151189409109912015-02-22T18:50:01.716-08:002015-02-22T18:50:01.716-08:00Watching, these aren't my claims. These are c...Watching, these aren't my claims. These are commitments from the 6 presidents of the state universities and all community and technical colleges in our state.<br /><br />You can read their joint press release here:<br /><br /><a href="http://sbctc.edu/documents/Smarter-balanced-final-approved-10.6.2014.pdf" rel="nofollow">Commitment to use 11th grade SBAC in placement determinations</a><br /><br />And just to be clear, I never claimed that SBAC would be used in admissions decisions. I only made reference to placement decisions.<br /><br />-- swkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-180905454913683202015-02-22T18:39:29.388-08:002015-02-22T18:39:29.388-08:00I also agree with David- 11th grade IB students ti...I also agree with David- 11th grade IB students time is better spent preparing for IB exams over SBAC. <br /><br />We've reached a point of ridiculous amount of exams. I can only hope the opt-out folks make their way into the IB programs.<br /><br />I'm sure there are plenty of folks wanting SBAC results from IB students--it makes good research--you know.<br /><br />Watchingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13324510328914990162015-02-22T18:28:51.705-08:002015-02-22T18:28:51.705-08:00Despite swk's claims, I"ve been in touch ...Despite swk's claims, I"ve been in touch with college admission offices. They are having "discussions" around SBAC and college admissions. There are many unknowns and I agree with David Edelman- our children are being used to determine cut scores. They are missing valuable class time and there is such a thing as test fatigue. 11th graders are taking final exams, SAT, AP exams etc.Watchingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54163427921225707002015-02-22T14:59:14.677-08:002015-02-22T14:59:14.677-08:00"Students benefit, albeit indirectly at times..."Students benefit, albeit indirectly at times, from the state assessments. Because people may profit from the assessments doesn't necessarily mean that the use of data generated by the assessments is unethically gathered nor unethically put to use."<br /><br />Let's take the NAEP as an example of a state (by which I mean "government") assessment. It could be argued that we all, students included, benefit from the data produced by this assessment. I still think that the selected students (or their parents) should have to opt in, just as someone who would potentially benefit from a drug trial has to opt in, with full disclosure.<br /><br />However, the SBAC isn't the NAEP. I don't believe the former is useful. But if students and their parents disagree, let them opt in.<br /><br />J.S. Mill, in <i>On Liberty</i>, essentially made the liberal case for state involvement in student assessments. He also warned of too much state involvement. In my view, the SBAC represents too much state involvement.<br /><br />How that came to be is a complicated issue. It ultimately goes back to the question of what we think education is for and who gets to decide this question.<br /><br />David EdelmanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68289843844573747052015-02-22T14:55:31.047-08:002015-02-22T14:55:31.047-08:00"With that said, I would disagree with your s..."With that said, I would disagree with your statement that no one is against testing. If by testing we mean standardized testing, then there are lots of people --- including people who regularly post here --- who are opposed to ALL standardized testing."<br /><br />Find me someone (or show us something on the blog). I have never met anyone who said no testing.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-64568245668450357162015-02-22T14:34:25.564-08:002015-02-22T14:34:25.564-08:00OK, David, now that we're clear about the data...OK, David, now that we're clear about the data, I would still make the same argument. I will agree with you that the state assessments, SBAC or otherwise, generate data and that data is useful to others aside from the students. I will also concede that there are people who profit from it.<br /><br />I disagree with you that the state assessments, SBAC or otherwise, are "educationally useless for students" and that they are designed "for the sole purpose of producing data for extra-school institutions and companies."<br /><br />Students benefit, albeit indirectly at times, from the state assessments. Because people may profit from the assessments doesn't necessarily mean that the use of data generated by the assessments is unethically gathered nor unethically put to use.<br /><br />To whit, there has never been a successful lawsuit claiming a violation of ethical standards of social science research based on the administration of standardized testing.<br /><br />--- swkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-69233241009113548162015-02-22T14:04:05.477-08:002015-02-22T14:04:05.477-08:00David Edelman, again above.David Edelman, again above.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com