tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post5321840399617895290..comments2024-03-28T23:38:22.511-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Tuesday Open ThreadMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62599894153795658382015-05-20T19:50:24.814-07:002015-05-20T19:50:24.814-07:00APP kids do multiplication in first grade. That...APP kids do multiplication in first grade. That's the two years ahead math part.<br /><br />That could be a lot of months waiting to move on in a regular classroom.<br /><br />BooAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19500363792228710182015-05-20T19:41:14.889-07:002015-05-20T19:41:14.889-07:00Amen advocate. Let's all do a collective boo-...Amen advocate. Let's all do a collective boo-hoo-hoo for a 1000 strong cohort - that must be maintained NO MATTER WHAT. Oh poor them! They only get 5 languages, 10 different jazz bands, 5 different high school choices, their gifted cohort OR their neighborhood cohort OR Center School OR Nova OR Cleveland. What's a parent to do, when their kid can multiply in 3rd grade? ??? It's such a burden!<br /><br />And did you read? The poor kid even had to get up early to catch the bus. Let's post 25 times about that. Oh, stop the injustice.<br /><br />Right On!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-3109481257038290562015-05-20T17:34:04.486-07:002015-05-20T17:34:04.486-07:00Jaded Mom and others,
*sigh* I can't read thi...Jaded Mom and others,<br /><br />*sigh* I can't read this pitiful wingeing without sighing.<br /><br />Do your children get moved every year? Cohort? What a joke. Students with disabilities (even mild autism) are forced to up and move or sign off on getting nothing, flailing without support and failing.<br /><br />Yes. Failing. Consigned to the garbage heap of society. Or prison. <br /><br />Let's have a different Tuesday Open Thread, shall we?<br /><br />another sped advocateAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47965418925245466272015-05-20T17:22:34.813-07:002015-05-20T17:22:34.813-07:00OK, thank you for the clarification!
North End Pa...OK, thank you for the clarification!<br /><br />North End ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-48172574365479444022015-05-20T16:16:15.372-07:002015-05-20T16:16:15.372-07:00FYI - Busing costs and the District Budget
There ...FYI - Busing costs and the District Budget<br /><br />There are 5 special categories of transportation funding that are paid for by the State from a separate funding source -- so it is neutral to the District and does NOT pull $ out of the classrooms!<br /><br />The 5 categories are:<br />Preschool (specific mandated forms)<br />Special Education<br />Gifted and Talented<br />Homeless<br />Bilingual (ELL)<br /><br />So, these categories of students mean that their transportation is paid for, and, does not cost our District a thing. It is a flow-through. Our District actually makes money on the APP kids. And no, while there is a Ingraham shuttle (due to challenges with Metro), non-SpEd students in the north absolutely do NOT get a bus to Garfield!! And if you really dig down into the weeds on the funding mechanism, putting gen ed students on these special buses muddies the water for the remuneration to occur. Occasionally, a sibling can be authorized to accompany a SpEd brother or sister going to the same school, but that is very specific. It is a complex system, to say the least. <br /><br />And there is a program at high school for the HC students, and, it is cohorted - that is the program. Look it up in the OSPI HCS grant documents. By cohorting, that enables sections of advanced courses to be run, which is necessary to provide service. Not all high schools offer as many AP courses as Garfield, because, they simply do not have the demand and they do not have the budget to run a 'half empty' course. There are other reasons as well for the cohort model for service for HC students in high school, and service is the law. 'Sprinkling' HC students everywhere would mean critical mass to deliver required courses would not be possible. <br /><br />Perpetuating a myth that APP students get yellow buses to high school and that giving these students buses means that money is diverted away from the classroom seems an awful lot like bating... <br /><br />5 categories get specific transportation funding. Seems like you, @ARG, only have a problem with HCC, but not with SpEd, ELL, Preschoolers, or homeless, right? What if the student was HCC and ELL, or, HCC and SpEd, or, HCC and homeless, or, HCC and SpEd and homeless? Then it is okay that they get bussed? The cohort model is not about staying with your friends, by the way, it is about ensuring educators have meaningful PLC with others who work with HC students, it is about budget efficiency, it is about program service integrity, etc. Staying with friends? That is insulting when one considers how many times these same kids have been pulled away from the friends at the last minute. When Lincoln is the ONLY elementary school that does not feed to a single middle school, like every other elementary in the SPS system. <br /><br />But hey, fire away anyway if that is your thing. <br /><br /><br />2E<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66148214697600574162015-05-20T15:51:13.814-07:002015-05-20T15:51:13.814-07:00North End Parent - I think it's simply that mo...North End Parent - I think it's simply that most people don't know or understand or remember that the District doesn't pay for APP buses. I was in a Sherry Carr community meeting a couple of years ago where this issue came up and she had to tell people this fact, too. Even on this thread, the fact has been stated several times and yet people are still complaining about APP buses and suggesting that cutting them would be fair and save costs. And presumably that's after they've read the thread?<br /><br />But all this is (IMO) a bit of a distraction from the real bell times issue, which is that Transportation is dictating bell times and refusing to consider a 2-tier system, even though that's what the task force recommended.<br /><br /><br />-flibbertigibbetAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63370708652771107502015-05-20T15:00:46.203-07:002015-05-20T15:00:46.203-07:00Ah, OK. So the APP busses aren't paid for by ...Ah, OK. So the APP busses aren't paid for by the district. If this is the case, why do the APP yellow busses always come up when we're discussing costs for bell time changes? I'm not understanding the link.<br /><br />Thanks!<br /><br />North End ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66764053067967393382015-05-20T14:03:50.823-07:002015-05-20T14:03:50.823-07:00Good point, cohort info. The district does indeed ...Good point, cohort info. The district does indeed seem to value "staying with your friends." Except, of course, in the case of APP, where the district is plenty happy to rip those kids out of their existing school and ship them off whenever capacity needs arise, right? The argument that APP cohort is about coddling these kids is clearly absurd.<br /><br />Jaded MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80158105605223127282015-05-20T13:49:59.810-07:002015-05-20T13:49:59.810-07:00Actually, the ENTIRE middle school enrollment proc...Actually, the ENTIRE middle school enrollment process is about gen ed students staying with their cohort.<br /><br />A rational system would draw middle school boundaries around each MS based on the size of that particular MS (and its ability to expand via portables, etc) Thus HIMS which cannot expand into portables b/c no space, and which is smaller, would have a smaller geo area drawn, for example). <br /><br />However, b/c SPS thinks "cohort" for gen ed going from ES to MS is vitally important, MS is made up of elem. school zones mashed together to feed in their entireties to a MS, even if that doesn't make sense for that particular MS enrollment. That's why you have crazy gerrymandered looking MS areas in the central and south part of the city, etc. <br /><br />If gen ed "cohort" going into MS didn't matter, they could do a better job right sizing all school boundaries, just like they right-size (as best they can) HS by drawing new boundaries just for HS. <br /><br />But they continue to use elem. school "feeder patterns" for MS. That's just placing the highest value on maintaining the gen ed elem. cohort into middle school. It makes no logical sense from a capacity or boundary perspective to organize that way, and makes it much harder to adjust any one boundary - because every change affects both Elem. and MS at the same time. <br /><br />Some people said during the last round of boundary changes that it would be A LOT easier to draw all the MS boundaries (and MUCH less disruptive when Wilson Pacific opens) if SPS just drew MS boundaries independently, like they do HS ones, but SPS wouldn't change at that time. <br /><br />Signed: cohort infoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56224103346814648772015-05-20T13:43:12.482-07:002015-05-20T13:43:12.482-07:00reposting for anonymous at 1:15 pm
It's not ab...reposting for anonymous at 1:15 pm<br />It's not about "staying with your friends," ARG, and I think you know it. The point of the cohort is to ensure that there are sufficient numbers to support a good range of appropriately advanced classes, and to make it more likely that a gifted student will have at least a few other gifted students in their class. In the absence of an actual program at the HS level, the cohort provides some (minimal) insurance that there will be sufficient academic rigor for these kids.<br />GHSmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70251253023677008102015-05-20T13:15:22.271-07:002015-05-20T13:15:22.271-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68159008027696195992015-05-20T12:11:22.099-07:002015-05-20T12:11:22.099-07:00APP students have the ability to choose whether to...APP students have the ability to choose whether to attend their assignment area high school or stay with the cohort and attend GHS or IHS. As has been stated endlessly, there is not an APP program in high school. The choice is to remain with the cohort. Given that no one else in the district has a choice about squat, why should APP students be driven to a school, funded by taxpayer money, just to stay with their cohort? Metro should work just fine and should be factored into the decision making. Getting a lift from the state, us taxpayers, is really beyond the pale just to stay with your friends. <br /><br />Waiting for all the reasons it is so important for these kids to stay with their cohort. Procede.<br /><br />ARGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42989474232819566262015-05-20T12:03:53.779-07:002015-05-20T12:03:53.779-07:00I was only referring to the small number of APP st...I was only referring to the small number of APP students who are receiving yellow bus transportation form Garfield to Ingraham. In the beginning of the IBX program 4 years ago, those numbers were vital to make IBX a viable program. With the exponential growth of the APP program and the stability of IBX established, there is probably no need to provide this transportation any longer to help IBX. Ingraham is well on its way to being overcrowded as well. IBX has certainly helped manage APP capacity at GHS, for now. Fall 2015 may be a different story for both schools given the enormous 8th grade APP classes this year. <br /><br />PW Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63230204799171513412015-05-20T12:02:52.352-07:002015-05-20T12:02:52.352-07:00All APP kids don't get yellow bus service. So...All APP kids don't get yellow bus service. Some APP students get yellow bus service because riding Metro is not feasible from where they live.<br /><br />The state, not the district, pays for APP bussing.<br /><br />-betwixt Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-92124109313641306292015-05-20T11:57:23.395-07:002015-05-20T11:57:23.395-07:00It's also worth mentioning that ocra cards ar...It's also worth mentioning that ocra cards are NOT useful to the students that live in the Broadview neighbor area and further south if they are trying to get to Ingraham, that is unless someone has figured out how to turn the cards into magic carpets.<br /><br />Maybe if you live a couple blocks on either side of Aurora then you can use metro and ride along with the druggies and prostitutes that frequent the metro buses north of 85th. I took metro in the 80s to Ingraham when I missed the school bus and I wasn't riding with druggies and prostitutes. <br /><br />When you mention the busing problem of the Broadview area and Ingraham to school officials, they just stare at you and keep repeating "we give each student an Ocra card" thinking if they say it enough it will mean something. So,though it's nice the district coddles the IBX students, how is that fair when they ignore the needs of Ingraham's schools NW geo assigned students? TheGoodFighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307127019210864810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14470711546340556832015-05-20T11:44:33.495-07:002015-05-20T11:44:33.495-07:00North End Parent, APP students get some yellow bus...North End Parent, APP students get some yellow bus transportation because the state pays for it separately from the regular transportation system. I do not know why Garfield doesn't get transportation under the same program. <br /><br />PW, Garfield is right at the edge of what they can handle. If you added in the ~250 IBX students from Ingraham, it would be an awful mess. Eric Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88000036170580460062015-05-20T11:29:13.462-07:002015-05-20T11:29:13.462-07:00Remember the uproar over Garfield having to let go...Remember the uproar over Garfield having to let go a teacher in the fall of this year because it was underenrolled? Garfield is not overcrowded. My impression was that the district (AL department) was trying to build up the IBX program at Ingraham and offered the yellow bus service to that end. There are not that many kids going to Ingraham IBX from the Garfield area that it would over or under enroll Garfield in any significant way, one way or the other. But those small numbers have made an impact in the viability of the IBX program from the beginning. <br /><br />PWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71094050168315570612015-05-20T11:21:07.672-07:002015-05-20T11:21:07.672-07:00So, I don't want to cause a fight, I just want...So, I don't want to cause a fight, I just want to understand: why are APP high school students bused with yellow school buses? It seems to me that it would make more sense to give them SPS-provided Orca cards. I understand why SPED high school students get the yellow school buses, but the APP students don't make sense.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />North End ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34919734825012609022015-05-20T11:13:33.044-07:002015-05-20T11:13:33.044-07:00Busing students to Ingraham (which has not to this...Busing students to Ingraham (which has not to this point been overcrowded) alleviates overcrowding at Garfield.<br /><br />Here are links to the latest <a href="http://www.k12.wa.us/Transportation/STARS/QuarterlyReports/2015Winter/SEATTLE.pdf" rel="nofollow">Transportation Report</a> and <br /><br /><a href="http://www.seattleschools.org/modules/groups/homepagefiles/cms/3249149/File/departmentfiles/2015-16%20Service%20Standards%20-%20Final%202-2015%20Rev%2000.pdf?sessionid=9d4bfad026b9b8ac385971e8ee977f37" rel="nofollow">Transportation Service Standards</a><br /><br />From the Transportation Service Standards:<br />SUPPLEMENTAL SERVICE:<br /><br />1. Chief Sealth students residing in the South Park neighborhood receive District arranged transportation service in addition to ORCA cards.<br /><br />2. Ingraham students residing in the SW portion of the Ingraham attendance area, west of 15th Ave NW, shall receive District arranged transportation service to school. ORCA cards shall be provided for afternoon transportation requirements.<br /><br />3. Ingraham students residing outside the Ingraham attendance area may receive supplemental District arranged transportation to augment ORCA cards as required.<br /><br />4. Madison Middle School students may receive supplemental District arranged transportation to augment ORCA cards as required for transportation to and from the Denny service area due to the lack of available Metro service.<br /><br />Also:<br /><br />MINIMUM RIDERSHIP STANDARD FOR HIGH SCHOOLS:<br /><br />Yellow school bus service will be provided to grades 9 - 12 only when there is a lack of Metro seat capacity. Generally there must be a minimum of twenty (20) or more student riders in a common service area and it is feasible to tie the route with a bus already in service. Determination will be made based on student assignment data available to the Transportation Office on July 1st. If actual ridership drops below the minimum in the current school year, this service may be rescinded after the following actions have occurred:<br /><br /> School administrator is notified<br /><br /> Students/parents are notified <br /><br /> <br /><br /><br />Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14775796448706046992015-05-20T10:58:52.140-07:002015-05-20T10:58:52.140-07:00The northend neighbor must be in APP. The boundari...The northend neighbor must be in APP. The boundaries have been set and Garfield has been restricted to students within the boundaries and APP since 2010, I believe. There is not yellow bus service to Garfield from the northend for APP students. They drive or take the 48. <br /><br />PWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9093563808246683872015-05-20T10:47:23.348-07:002015-05-20T10:47:23.348-07:00He pick Garfield four years ago. He's a musici...He pick Garfield four years ago. He's a musician and was attracted by the music program there.(For good reason) Four years ago students still had choice, but had to use metro. I was and still am impressed by his willingness get get up at 5AM everyday and walk 5 blocks to the metro bus stop then ride it all the way to Garfield. He graduates in June and is terrific person. TheGoodFighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307127019210864810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-2416413789897635812015-05-20T10:35:15.067-07:002015-05-20T10:35:15.067-07:00Good Fight, Chief Sealth is also very crowded as i...Good Fight, Chief Sealth is also very crowded as is Franklin. It is not all north-end high schools.<br /><br />I'm confused how your north-end neighbor is attending Garfield. Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-28836346732087989072015-05-20T10:33:52.792-07:002015-05-20T10:33:52.792-07:00A heavyweight, big headline throwdown article from...A heavyweight, big headline throwdown <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/21/nyregion/opt-out-movement-against-common-core-testing-grows-in-new-york-state.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news" rel="nofollow">article</a> from the New York Times was just posted. It shows the anti-test fever spreading through New York, broken down by district, for the past three years. It's something our state legislators and OSPI should see, stat. <br /><br />EdVoterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-64979529074080833242015-05-20T10:29:47.002-07:002015-05-20T10:29:47.002-07:00It's the north end schools that are maxed, so ...It's the north end schools that are maxed, so how does busing students in from the central district help reduce over crowding at Ingraham?<br /><br />My north Seattle neighbor attends Garfield and he takes metro and leaves at 5:30AM everyday rain or shine....where's his state supplied school bus. Just saying why the distinctions. TheGoodFighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307127019210864810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-58133717654183024832015-05-20T10:19:27.425-07:002015-05-20T10:19:27.425-07:00Ingraham has two "shuttles." One from Ga...Ingraham has two "shuttles." One from Garfield that has stops in NE Seattle and one from Coe that has stops in NW Seattle. In the afternoon, one goes to Northgate Transit Center and one goes to North Beach ES. Broadmomnoreply@blogger.com