tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post5337008512353196697..comments2024-03-18T16:51:10.406-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Growth Boundary Fallout and InfightingMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29641953563898780992013-10-12T19:03:29.080-07:002013-10-12T19:03:29.080-07:00Looks like a good outcome for Coe. QAE geozone to...Looks like a good outcome for Coe. QAE geozone to overlap completely with Coe attendance area.<br /><br />BillAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-16456201665182602422013-10-11T11:20:00.648-07:002013-10-11T11:20:00.648-07:00QAE Parent,
When David Elliot was principal at Co...QAE Parent, <br />When David Elliot was principal at Coe a 3rd kinder was added to help relieve overcrowding at Hay. A 4th kinder was added to Coe this year. The 1st grades at Coe all have 30 students in them, I think one might even have 31. The 2nd grade classes are at 28/29. Class sizes at Hay and QAE are smaller than at Coe (1st grades at Hay are at 23) yet Coe was ignored in the boundary proposal. That is what drove the call to action. I'm not defending the tacky postcard campaign, nor did I participate, I'm just trying to explain why some felt a great need to act. 30+ 6 year olds in a classroom with one teacher (with 7+ non English speaking students) has a way of making parents forget their manners. My apologies on behalf of Coe parents. <br />TS Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6027412710877368782013-10-11T09:46:39.191-07:002013-10-11T09:46:39.191-07:00I just want to reiterate that QAE is FULL in the g...I just want to reiterate that QAE is FULL in the grades people are concerned about. There is no room in grades K-2nd. We have three classes of 26 kids in each of these grades. The upper grades are not yet full because FAMILIES have chosen not to move their kids from their neighborhood school to QAE. Neither QAE'S option school status, nor its geozone, impact that dynamic. We welcome anyone who would like to enroll their child at QAE in grades 3-5, and there is no one on our waitlist in those grades.<br /><br /><br />QAE parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18380708413210378252013-10-10T19:56:38.896-07:002013-10-10T19:56:38.896-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-69316710375231593132013-10-10T17:16:00.741-07:002013-10-10T17:16:00.741-07:00reposting for you, Anonymous:
"mirmac1, I do...reposting for you, Anonymous:<br /><br />"mirmac1, I don't think you can distill this down to a single thing. Teacher:student ratio is important, but so are facilities. Kind of hard to do proper phys ed without a gymnasium, for example. Or having kids crammed on top of one and other in too small classrooms."<br /><br />I don't disagree, but I have not heard this observation yet on this thread. There are buildings in WS that have been taxed beyond their physical limits for years, plural. It does have an impact on the prospect for quality, individualized teaching. Yet another factor teachers cannot control, yet will pay the price...mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20167302269934678012013-10-10T16:54:55.207-07:002013-10-10T16:54:55.207-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-37847228812794312572013-10-10T16:47:19.562-07:002013-10-10T16:47:19.562-07:00It is not physical space so much a teacher:student...It is not physical space so much a teacher:student ratio. It's the difference between saying Hi-See ya versus some (difficult) degree of individualized attention.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18277384035029872652013-10-10T16:07:55.825-07:002013-10-10T16:07:55.825-07:00Queen Anne may be newer to the crunch-time scene. ...Queen Anne may be newer to the crunch-time scene. We in the NE have had what, five years to learn that lesson? It's very easy to volunteer another school and step on some toes while brainstorming. That is forgiveable. I've done myself it many times- fortunately mostly in my head or small groups. An organized postcard campaign? Not so much. <br /><br />Chris S.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56276926677329013242013-10-10T15:09:30.309-07:002013-10-10T15:09:30.309-07:00JSIS and McDonald are neighborhood schools and hav...JSIS and McDonald are neighborhood schools and have no geozone.<br /><br />"..the older grades are still being grandfathered from the old assignment plan in all schools, which skews the data for everyone."<br /><br />And there may be part of the answer to students at Coe or Hay who had older sibs and are grandfathered in.<br /><br />This is also why I am against any further grandfathering. It muddies the waters and makes if very unclear how many kids will be at any given school. You can complain the district gets it wrong but the district also doesn't know how many kids are in any given family and how many of those will come to SPS.<br /><br />I know that statement about grandfathering will not be popular but if we see the problem playing out now and STILL continue on, then no one should complain about getting the numbers right.<br /><br />Sarah Prichett is the EX Director of the Central area. She is at 252-0103 and her e-mail is sjprichett@seattleschools.org<br /><br />As for "nothing personal" in one comment - it's all personal when it's your child. Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77164202416524840632013-10-10T14:39:57.150-07:002013-10-10T14:39:57.150-07:00PO3
QAE is packed to the gills - at the same lower...PO3<br />QAE is packed to the gills - at the same lower grades that Coe is complaining about. Coe has the space for that extra K, based on Elliotts letter, they've done it before. <br /><br />And class SIZE is not necessarily a fair comparison. QAE classrooms are 900 sqr feet at the most for K, Coe is at 1,200. All of this can be found on SPS website. So the same number of kids is not necessarily equitable either. <br /><br />To others who asked, the option schools are included in the enrollment projections but the geozones have not yet been drawn<br /><br />QA ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40343343518852069042013-10-10T14:06:48.791-07:002013-10-10T14:06:48.791-07:00To McClure district parent-
Sorry, maybe how I po...To McClure district parent-<br /><br />Sorry, maybe how I posed the question didn't make sense. <br /><br />I do assume that the options schools are included in the planning, but I don't think that the Geozones for any of them were defined in the proposed plan (which is now obsolete per the website). <br /><br />I wasn't paying close attention to the QAE geozone in the proposal, but I'm pretty certain that JSIS and MCDondald did not have defined geozones in the recent plan. They were TBD, as I understood it.<br /><br />Did I miss something?<br />EdenUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00147954881410244096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-48355712620687998112013-10-10T13:50:41.560-07:002013-10-10T13:50:41.560-07:00Louise, the building would have to be extensively ...Louise, the building would have to be extensively upgraded to current codes. Not likely in this BEX.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41164776510098792122013-10-10T13:41:31.020-07:002013-10-10T13:41:31.020-07:00Sounds like they should put reopening the old Magn...Sounds like they should put reopening the old Magnolia elementary bldg on the table. Louisenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-45529737089457410522013-10-10T13:13:47.191-07:002013-10-10T13:13:47.191-07:00Anonymous in the post immediately before, your com...Anonymous in the post immediately before, your comments have been addressed by others earlier.<br /><br />Mr. Elliot's primary concern is that the Coe communication was done about QAE WITHOUT QAE's involvement or consultation. Surely you can see how these methods, irrespective of the subject, can be taken personally.<br /><br />It's been mentioned earlier QAE's out of district students are also largely due to upper grades enrollment from prior years. Both schools have same issue.<br /><br />Yes, Coe is over capacity. And QAE has less space and facilities per student. Hay suffers on both fronts. Which is why solutions should include and support all the schools in our district.<br /><br />Working with the District collectively to discuss and generate solutions TOGETHER is what's needed, not separate campaigns.<br /><br />Concerned QAE Parent<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-692643698157443772013-10-10T13:11:50.205-07:002013-10-10T13:11:50.205-07:00If there is room at QE Elem and students on the wa...If there is room at QE Elem and students on the wait list then I too would be upset if I was at a over subscribed school down the street.<br /><br />All schools needs to be packed to the gills - regardless of their Option status or creative approach status.<br />Po3noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-74237853270964808892013-10-10T12:49:45.624-07:002013-10-10T12:49:45.624-07:00I think Coe and Hay should apply for Creative Opti...I think Coe and Hay should apply for Creative Option status. Melissa is right. It is available for all. But, if we go down this road, do we in fact make the problem worse. Likely yes. This may be an option that we cannot afford now. <br /><br />Can we not think communally? While Mr Elliott may be upset about the communication from Coe parents, it's not personal. It's looking at the District and throwing out options to help alleviate over-crowding in two schools. The District has been silent as far as Coe is concerned. And, the District Director is nowhere in site. <br /><br /> QAE is not at capacity yet. As far as the 25% out of area at Coe, it likely is because kids in the upper grades got in when there was not an enrollment crisis. At QAE it is the policy of an Option School to accept kids from out of the area. <br /><br />Hmmm what are wise solutions to this problem. What can each team on the hill contribute to solving this capacity issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87109926130856340302013-10-10T12:38:45.883-07:002013-10-10T12:38:45.883-07:00QAE has district-mandated class sizes, with no spe...QAE has district-mandated class sizes, with no special dispensation based on its CAS or option school status. The district determines classroom capacity based on the facilites. With 1/3 of QAE's classrooms at 700 sq feet (compared to the district standard of 1,000), it is no surprise that QAE's classes may be smaller. That said, current class sizes at QAE are 26 for the primary grades, and 28 for the upper grades -- not much of a dispensation at all.<br /><br />The district reports that Coe and Hay draw 10-13% of their students from outside either of their geozones. That is a problem, given their overcrowding issues, and counter to the very notion of a neighborhood school. Seems to me that the district needs to be doing a better job of limiting enrollment at these neighborhood schools to just their respective geozones.<br /><br />QAE parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31889448582997467282013-10-10T12:14:24.274-07:002013-10-10T12:14:24.274-07:00To Bill -
It would be great if it were as simple ...To Bill -<br /><br />It would be great if it were as simple as cap or no cap.<br /><br />Your question about space/facilities is a good additional consideration. Looking at square footage per student is important. Mr Elliot's email and QAE website have good data on this.<br /><br />McClure District ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41698211391867190192013-10-10T12:00:34.981-07:002013-10-10T12:00:34.981-07:00QAE has capped class sizes and the neighborhood sc...QAE has capped class sizes and the neighborhood schools do not. As long as that is the case, QAE will continue to be in the conversation as a possible solution to the capacity issue.<br /><br />That being said - I thought QAE's capped class sizes were due to the facilities/physical classroom size, not its status as an option school.<br /><br />BillAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-44124405703407904412013-10-10T11:52:18.241-07:002013-10-10T11:52:18.241-07:00To Eden -
Not sure why you're assuming optio...To Eden - <br /><br />Not sure why you're assuming options schools weren't already included in the growth boundary planning. I believe it was mentioned earlier (or perhaps in Mr. Elliot's mail) that the District has already slotted QAE to grow to handle a similar number of kids as the other QA schools, well over 500. In fact, the data shows QAE is already handling the lion's share of the growth in our district.<br /><br />McClure District ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18155061172111489612013-10-10T11:38:38.092-07:002013-10-10T11:38:38.092-07:00There are some great questions here.
Why is/was a...There are some great questions here.<br /><br />Why is/was a growth boundaries plan being proposed without the Geo zones for the Options schools included? Seems important to the whole picture for all of SPS boundary discussion, not just Queen Anne.<br /><br />Eden<br /><br />Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00147954881410244096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72076080244485067832013-10-10T11:22:33.254-07:002013-10-10T11:22:33.254-07:00QA Parent,
I am definitely not suggesting Coe, or...QA Parent, <br />I am definitely not suggesting Coe, or Hay should be allowed to take students from out of zone, I am sorry for not being more clear about that. There does seem to be a lot of wait-list swapping going on between Hay and Coe though. My daughter has quite a handful of Hay zoned kids in her 2nd grade class at Coe (not ELL) and I've heard the same from friends at Hay. And as you said, the older grades are still being grandfathered from the old assignment plan in all schools, which skews the data for everyone. <br /><br />Which brings us to heart of the problem: Staff are making boundary decisions based on innacurate data and projections. When they provide no rationale/reasoning for their proposals, it opens the door to these kinds of unintentional slights. At 515 students, Coe has already surpassed the district projections for 2016. In the spring they predicted 72 kindergartners and they got 102. It is time to evaluate how these projections are being created and used to make decisions. <br /> <br />It is maddening that SPS never responded when SPU alerted them that the property adjacent to the old North Queen Anne Elementary school (which the district still owns) was up for sale. <br /><br />Moose, helpful comments all around. <br />TSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85292663829965248272013-10-10T10:52:09.517-07:002013-10-10T10:52:09.517-07:00Moose
apologies - did not realize the repost.
As ...Moose<br />apologies - did not realize the repost.<br /><br />As far as caps/class sizes, I don't know if those are real or wishes for the future.<br /><br />QA ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-74213957421330834722013-10-10T09:58:37.113-07:002013-10-10T09:58:37.113-07:00QA parent,
I merely copied and re-posted an anony...QA parent,<br /><br />I merely copied and re-posted an anonymous comment so that it wouldn't be deleted as per blog rules. I hated to see an on-topic discussion point get deleted. Just so you know, my kids are all out of elementary school so I am interested in this as an option school Geozone discussion and not as someone who has a stake in the outcome. <br /><br />However, it does bring up a question for me. The data linked in David Elliot's letter does seem to cap class size at 26 and 28. I know from talking to others at Hay and Coe that their class sizes are larger. So are you saying that those numbers on the QAE website are wishes, not caps?<br /><br />Moose Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-16883002429607583892013-10-10T09:25:24.952-07:002013-10-10T09:25:24.952-07:00I don't get why Seattle Schools is not putting...I don't get why Seattle Schools is not putting proposed geozone information out with proposed boundaries. The shifting of enrollment between buildings will be driven by this on Queen Anne and in other overcrowded neighborhoods with optional schools.<br /><br />Does anyone know when the geozone information will be available or why we do not have it yet? Or if we will be able to comment or change them?<br /><br />QAP<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com