tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post5812151737470577179..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Friday CommentMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15094017398162460522020-02-25T09:59:43.258-08:002020-02-25T09:59:43.258-08:00You should show them this blog https://robertpaarl...You should show them this blog <a href="https://robertpaarlberg.net" rel="nofollow">https://robertpaarlberg.net</a>. All of them would be surprised!Taylor Barahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04054776280759216446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68204394179680837342013-08-20T08:32:17.081-07:002013-08-20T08:32:17.081-07:00In any case, I find it hard to imagine someone arg...<i><br />In any case, I find it hard to imagine someone arguing against teaching these skills.</i><br /><br />Yes. I find Algebra 1 useful as an adult. But not much else, even as a high tech professional. Higher math was fun and interesting for me, but doesn't get a lot of use. Too bad we have to use it as such a weed-out for other things.<br /><br />I'm not arguing against teaching basic skills. But I am arguing against using their mastery to prevent somebody from moving forward. By the time kids reach 9th grade, they've had 10 years of basic skills - often many with remediation attempts. Why do we think more "Basic Math" is going to do the trick? We can blame many people for whatever failed, but the kid is still the kid. And that is who we need to educate. Let's move them forward and not get stuck on deficits. Reader, I agree with efforts to promote students and not put up arbitrary roadblocks. At one point, everyone thought diagramming sentences was a skill universally necessary. Turns out they were wrong, and it was stupid to throw that up as a roadblock for further education.<br /><br />Ted Nutting, I'm not a math educator. I can believe you that students who are proficient in arithmetic, aren't proficient with Algebra. But then it is the opportunity to teach those arithmetic rules as an abstraction. It would be one thing if remediation actually worked, that doesn't seem to be the case.<br /><br />Math EnthusiastAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88330755402405867472013-08-20T08:26:56.926-07:002013-08-20T08:26:56.926-07:00I tutor in 9th grade Algebra 1 classes at Ingraham...I tutor in 9th grade Algebra 1 classes at Ingraham High School. I think it's ridiculous that the lowest math class available in high school is Algebra 1. Some parents actually put their kids in Running Start so that they can take "lower" math than Algebra at North Seattle Community College.<br /><br />The idea of making Algebra 1 mandatory for 8th graders will be a huge challenge for a school district where many students cannot multiply, divide or even add and subtract without a calculator, cannot manipulate fractions with confidence, and have an aversion to working through a problem because they will have endured almost a decade of "feel good" math where they were never drilled in skills that would make them really ready for Algebra 1. Pity the teachers who have to teach Algebra 1 to unprepared 8th graders. Pity the parents who have to endure the pushback from their adolescents and then see the report card. <br /><br />A better idea would be for the Seattle School District to adopt good math curricula that teaches excellent math skills and truly prepares students for Algebra, whatever grade the students actually get there. <br /><br />By the way, it would be a good idea to make sure that all of the TEACHERS and ADMINISTRATORS in the Seattle School District can do Algebra.<br /><br />Finally, politicians and School District officials who want to pat themselves on the back and declare that all of their 8th graders are in Algebra 1: Math is not a race. <br /><br />M.J. McDermotthttp://mjmcdermott.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-67167489453368861092013-08-20T05:46:56.086-07:002013-08-20T05:46:56.086-07:00Oh, and I use algebra and basic math all the time....Oh, and I use algebra and basic math all the time. I don't find much daily use for math beyond geometry, but I don't make daily use of chemistry or physics either.<br /><br />I do, however, make daily use of personal finance, childcare, and nutrition. When the District says that they are going to prepare students for career, college and life, I want to know where the classes are that prepare them for life?Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86754631641033986092013-08-20T05:44:50.027-07:002013-08-20T05:44:50.027-07:00The suggestion that a strong base knowledge of gra...The suggestion that a strong base knowledge of grade school arithmetic - math facts, basic functions, fractions, proportions, percentages, area of 2D geometric figures, etc. - is unnecessary for access to algebra may be theoretically true, but in practical terms it is false.<br /><br />The solution to factoring x^2 + 11x + 28 is ridiculously simple for those who know their math facts and much more difficult for those who don't.<br /><br />Isolating a variable is difficult for those who aren't facile with the operations and how they work.<br /><br />In any case, I find it hard to imagine someone arguing against teaching these skills.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10491532604295261592013-08-19T22:24:14.486-07:002013-08-19T22:24:14.486-07:00Since I'm not a "hi tech mathy profession...Since I'm not a "hi tech mathy professional" and can't seem to find a job description for it, I bow to your greater expertise on what you need to become one. However, not all of us want to be a "hi tech mathy professional". More importantly, we don't have whatever you have that makes you so sure you don't need to learn all the things the rest of the world believes education is all about. <br /><br />My kids have learned fractions and algebra, grammar and parts of speech to keep their career and learning options open. For them, it's not a religious experience nor a rite of passage. They see getting a driver's license more of a rite of passage. <br /><br />And there's the rub, whether you want to be a vet, pharmacy tech, teacher, merchant mariner, small business owner, game designer, landscaper, or even a hi tech mathy professional, learning these concepts/skills and getting a HS diploma means a life of opportunities<br />beyond HS. That's still what the real world demands and that's what this is all about.<br /><br />readerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83826340096515135752013-08-19T22:15:45.584-07:002013-08-19T22:15:45.584-07:00Interesting comments. I look at arithmetic as a s...Interesting comments. I look at arithmetic as a subsection of algebra, with algebra being the science of number (while geometry is the science of space). The same rules apply in arithmetic as in algebra, and arithmetic is almost always easier to learn first. But once arithmetic is learned, algebra comes pretty easily. Examples:<br /><br />You can't add algebraic fractions if you don't know how to add fractions. Studying arithmetic shows you how to do that. If you can do the arithmetic, the algebra isn't very hard.<br /><br />Operations with signed numbers: I've seen students use a calculator to do 2 – (−2). If you don't understand signed numbers, how can you do x – (−x)? Arithmetic leads to algebra, which in one sense is a generalized arithmetic.<br /><br />I just don't see students who are good at algebra but can't do arithmetic. Perhaps they exist, but there aren't very many. As a rule, the ones who don't understand arithmetic don't understand the algebra concepts either and can't do it.Ted Nuttingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18006285248939721272013-08-19T21:34:50.060-07:002013-08-19T21:34:50.060-07:00yes "they" do. My older children have bo...yes "they" do. My older children have both had units on them-several- in elementary, and the older has learned about sentence parts, just like I learned them for diagramming. They also teach about suffix and prefix meanings, though people don't go around spouting prefix origin on a daily basis.<br /><br />There is still plenty to learn besides fractions, but without the ability to know what it means to divide by something, what happens when x just has to sit on top or bottom of a fraction, and what you can do about it, no, you can't really understand algebra. It's not really number sense- being able to recognize patterns with familiarity, work with the numbers and fractions as they get bigger or smaller. I use this stuff every day at work, not in a techy field, though definitely higher math competency than what you are advocating for has increased my income, ability, and marketability enormously. I would hate to see that cut off for SPS students.<br /><br />-sleeper<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-64149576974210542852013-08-19T20:48:32.950-07:002013-08-19T20:48:32.950-07:00How many writers diagram a sentence day to day? St...<i>How many writers diagram a sentence day to day? Still i think we should teach the parts of speech</i><br /><br />Guess what? They don't teach parts of speech at all. Absolutely nobody does any diagramming. No grammar. Nothing. They aren't even part of LA standards. Why not? Because nobody had any use for it. QED.<br /><br />Cute stuff isn't what I'm talking about. Leave the calculations to the calculator if you must. It really isn't that big of a deal. It's what we all do. Sure. It's great if you can do calculations, understand them deeply, and have great number sense. But if you can't, or so far haven't been able to, then let's not let it stand in the way of everything else you might learn. There's still plenty to learn if you can't do fractions.<br /><br />MEAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-58373269013845815282013-08-19T17:48:47.109-07:002013-08-19T17:48:47.109-07:00How many writers diagram a sentence day to day? St...How many writers diagram a sentence day to day? Still i think we should teach the parts of speech. The point is understanding the ideas you work with every day, not proving it out. I use statistics in my everyday professional life, and it is clear to me when I talk to the general public what a harm lack of deep understanding of those concepts do.<br /><br />It is possible to do some clever one offs or introduction to concepts in algebra without big numbers, so you can skate by without much arithmetic. I have done this with my young children, and it is very cute, and they have a good time, but I would not say they can actually do algebra. To get any practice, or to work with the exponents that allow you to apply algebra to most scientific uses, arithmetic needs to be second nature, not because it is the same thing, but for the same reason that it is difficult to write a critical essay if you have to pause at every word to figure out how to spell or conjugate it. You may say algebra is another language, but I say algebra is an area of study spoken in arithmetic.<br /><br /> I've also tutored middle school math and have had the same experience as above- woeful lack of preparation, especially with operations tables and fractions. I have done Singapore at home with my own kids, and it does introduce algebraic thinking very early - second grade or so- along with much more drill practice. it's not that hard to get the arithmetic in, if you focus on it for a little while. But it is torture if you spend several years kind of but not really learning it.<br /><br />-sleeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50662329897159723462013-08-19T17:19:56.451-07:002013-08-19T17:19:56.451-07:00I get this information because I know a lot of peo...I get this information because I know a lot of people who actually are mathematicians. Right, math educators, including college ones, actually have a vested interest in wanting the perfect student. Complaining about the quality of the student has become part of the culture, followed closely by complaining about the quality of the teacher. You can't do one without also doing the other. I'm not "bad mouthing Ted Nutting", I'm commenting on his post. Getting the highest scores on the AP calculus exam is something laudable, but it is not everything. Reaching all students is also important.... and giving up on them, or having them sign up for something else, so that you can get high test scores in your class just isn't a practice I respect.<br /><br />How many adults, in real life, would be able to pass any of these exams? EOCs? I bet way more than half of our citizens, including highly successful ones would no longer be able to pass math EOCs. I'm pretty darn sure that very few non-math teachers would be able to pass them 10 years after high school. And AP calculus... how many of us have had to do "integration by parts" or use a Taylor series lately, or ever, as an adult with a real job, even if your "real job" is highly technical?<br /><br />Math Enthusiast Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57506383415782661142013-08-19T17:19:35.554-07:002013-08-19T17:19:35.554-07:00Another mathy enthusiast, do you even know Mr. Nu...Another mathy enthusiast, do you even know Mr. Nutting? Our kids do and the assumption you made about him tells me you know very little about him and couldn't be more wrong.<br /><br />You think it's fine students shouldn't have to master basic math like fraction, decimals, percentage, or number concepts? I suggest you may want to reconsider as you need to understand all those concepts to be able to use a tool like a calculator to figure out the answer correctly. That is what Mr. Nutting is saying. <br /><br />Does your "hi tech mathy professional" advice for dismissing such learning means it's also acceptable for students to go through K-12 education and come out reading and writing at the 4th or 5th grade level too? <br /><br />readerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79952275918154303362013-08-19T16:33:17.689-07:002013-08-19T16:33:17.689-07:00Please don't badmouth Ted Nutting. His studen...Please don't badmouth Ted Nutting. His students have the highest scores and highest passing rates for the AP Calculus exam in Seattle School District and maybe even in the state. Here's an editorial from Seattle Times featuring Ted.<br /><br />http://blogs.seattletimes.com/opinionnw/2013/06/05/the-no-1-math-teacher/<br /><br />And I don't know where you get your information about "Most real mathematicians aren't especially great at arithmetic." It just isn't correct. Please read the NMAP (National Mathematics Advisory Panel) executive summary. This panel was composed of the brightest U.S. mathematicians and math educators.<br /><br />From p.26 of the NMAP, "Conceptual understanding of mathematical operations, fluent execution of procedures, and fast access to number combination together support effective and efficient problem solving...U.S. students' poor knowledge of the core arithmetical concepts impedes the learning of algebra..."<br />Linh-Conoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19206451172731866822013-08-19T12:54:59.848-07:002013-08-19T12:54:59.848-07:00Here's the thing about "remediation lover...Here's the thing about "remediation lovers" and the "boo hoo hoo, kids aren't prepared with enough arithmetic": Math isn't arithmetic. Yes, you absolutely can be great at "math" and suck at arithmetic. Most real mathematicians aren't especially great at arithmetic. You could, theoretically, be great at Algebra 1, and do all the arithmetic on the calculator. The problem with requiring "mastery of previous skills" is that very often, people never acquire that mastery, incorrectly perceived as necessary. Then what? Are they to be stuck in General Math for 4 years? A previous generation of Ballard HS graduates encountered exactly that. The whole notion of sequential instruction is really mostly imposed. Sounds like Ted Nutting was happy to get rid of a great many of his students so the remaining easy students could all pass the EOC. Congratulations. That's exactly the attitude we don't need. That said, of course we would like students to master all the materials of all previous years. Of course it's beneficial to be arithmetically fluent. But, when kids get to high school, or middle school, you have to teach the students you have, not the ones you wish you had.<br /><br />And finally, the whole idea: "we don't need so much math" has a lot of merit. How much math do people really need to know? Right now, math is sort of a weed-out class in both high school and college. A Rite of Passage. It is more of a long-standing cultural tradition, than a practice that is based around necessary skills. Not surprisingly, pass rates appear to be culturally pre-determined as well. Even in high tech professions, very little new math is ever required. (I say this as a high tech mathy professional) Math is an excellent way to teach logical thinking, perseverance, written expression of complex ideas, etc and it is useful. But, there are many other topics that teach those skills too. I agree that we should get beyond the religiosity of mathematical instruction, especially since we have imposed this religious viewpoint which now has become a stumbling block for lots of people who otherwise would be very successful students.<br /><br />-Another Mathy EnthusiastAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-25867868945177078112013-08-19T09:13:57.654-07:002013-08-19T09:13:57.654-07:00Lynn wrote
"You [Valley Girl] seem entirely ...Lynn wrote<br /><br />"<i>You [Valley Girl] seem entirely concerned with proving that gifted kids don't exist - and that the kids we call gifted should not get anything different at school than anyone else.</i><br /><br />I didn't read Valley Girl's comments that way. I read them to say that the kids that we DON'T call gifted should not get anything different at school than anyone else. Valley Girl, as I read her comments, was not suggesting that we give the non-gifted curriculum to the students we now identify as gifted, but that we give the gifted curriculum (with appropriate supports) to the students we now identify as non-gifted.<br /><br />The stumbling block, of course, is the appropriate supports. The McClure effort will work exactly as well as the Math Support class - and no better. Kids cannot pull themselves up by their bootstraps if they have no boots.<br /><br />Can we all share our focus on providing the necessary supports to all of the students who need them?Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40662481762957215452013-08-18T20:41:16.457-07:002013-08-18T20:41:16.457-07:00n,
I didn't mean to give the impression that ...n,<br /><br />I didn't mean to give the impression that I think understanding operations means that algebra is inevitably accessible. <br /><br />What I was trying to say is that if a child does not have automaticity with arithmetic & has to give attention to remembering or looking up operations, then they don't have the working memory left over to think about the abstract problem. If you can do the arithmetic automatically then you have more attention to give to the problem, less chance of making small errors & more likelihood of seeing the patterns for a solution. To me it seems like trying to play a sonata on an instrument when you don't remember the fingerings automatically.<br /><br />I agree that mathematical thinking is important to teach all along with puzzles & games & creative discovery opportunites. Arithmetic is a basic building block for more advanced math, not the only one, but the one I most often see as an issue for the middle school students that I tutor. <br /><br />I do think that learning math skills can be fun with a creative teacher & spending only a few minutes a day on it. But I also have routinely forced my own kids to practice things that were not fun including chores, spelling lists, notetaking for history tests, writing thank you notes, physical therapy exercises & handwriting. <br /><br />-math tutorAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42051318697848958232013-08-18T20:19:06.507-07:002013-08-18T20:19:06.507-07:00Wow! The article I posted was updated in March of ...Wow! The article I posted was updated in March of this year and it links to another article (WAPO 2008)which should really ruffle a few feathers: <br /><br /><i>Is Upper Level Math Necessary?<br /><br />Students are told that they must work hard to achieve success in math in high school because math will be needed in the real world. Is this really true?<br /></i><br />http://suite101.com/article/is-upper-level-math-necessary-a77241nnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76659081834720267692013-08-18T19:11:59.584-07:002013-08-18T19:11:59.584-07:00repost because I forgot to sign!
Math people do...repost because I forgot to sign! <br /><br />Math people don't understand those of us who are algebra-deficient. I did fine in geometry but algebra introduced another language as far as I was concerned. The only way I passed ninth grade algebra was because I passed a standardized test including algebra, trig and calculus and my score was one of the highest in the school. My teacher said he could not fail me with that kind of score. That was Mr. Tuscher at QA High.<br /><br />I am very logical. I knew my arithmetic (and still do) backwards and forwards.<br /><br />I did not understand the language of algebra. I just didn't get it. And I still have to plug in numbers to figure it out.<br /><br />I remember seeing a math documentary where a prof admitted to having to turn algebra into a concrete model in order to really understand it. I've looked and looked for that documentary - I thought it was a PBS series called By the Numbers but didn't find it there when I purchased to series. Numbers are concrete. Symbols (letters) seem to me to be abstract.<br /><br />Anyway, this particular professor became the go-to guy in the department for particularly difficult complex math.<br /><br />Algebra is different than arithmetic. You may think that simply understanding operations will solve the problem but it won't. We need to start earlier and use the languages of math interchangeably. Kids who start algebra in primary classrooms may finally understand why knowing your times tables and the functions of parentheses and the order of operations is important. Right now they have no reason to really want to learn those things. They don't see them as useful.<br /><br />Give a kid a reason to learn something and most of the time, that kid will learn it.<br /><br />I believe in Discovery Math just as I believe in traditional math. A good math program should include all of it including algebra, geometry and probably even some calculus and trig. Since I'm no mathematician (but am one who truly embraces its importance) I don't know what would be involved in bringing down those other areas of math. But I know there is a good curriculum from NCTM that Lebanon is using and it is working for those kids.nnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47331636070183173892013-08-18T18:39:09.292-07:002013-08-18T18:39:09.292-07:00Some research on school districts and state with 8...Some research on school districts and state with 8th grade algebra curriculum. It's sobering.<br /><br />1. Discuss the California case:<br />http://www.edsource.org/today/2012/another-study-questions-states-push-for-8th-grade-algebra/19289#.UhFxcMu9KK1<br /><br />2. Discuss NC school districts:<br /><br />http://www.hks.harvard.edu/pepg/PDF/Papers/Vigdor%20Paper.pdf<br /><br />3. WAPO Jay Matthews thoughtful revaluation in light of Brookings Intitute report and the barrge of responses from DC area math teachers.<br /><br />http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2008-09-22/news/36780439_1_eighth-grade-algebra-algebra-test-tom-loveless<br /><br />4.How to do it right and meet students needs where they are:<br />http://www.districtadministration.com/article/8th-grade-algebra-finding-formula-success<br /><br />5. Finally, read a study done on our very own Everett School District. Read the breadth and depth the district invested to lay the groundwork to get there.<br /><br />http://www-media.carnegielearning.com.s3.amazonaws.com/articles/whitepaper/011d6303-24df-459d-be49-8218859a154b?Signature=aXXusXkELULSM2kupzohosQt%2Bkw%3D&Expires=1692235615&AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJX33RODX7TPUDBNQ<br /><br />mpAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-90389370562031171902013-08-18T16:38:03.529-07:002013-08-18T16:38:03.529-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42281477519575164562013-08-18T15:30:54.464-07:002013-08-18T15:30:54.464-07:00I teach math at Ballard. I agree with most of the ...I teach math at Ballard. I agree with most of the comments about mandating algebra in 8th grade, especially those of Charlie Mas and "Mathy Mom."<br /><br />Ballard puts all students in Algebra 1 or higher. This makes no sense to me, and doing it in 8th grade is even worse.<br /><br />I taught Algebra 1 during the 2011-2012 school year. Some of my students didn't know their addition tables. Many didn't know their times tables, and many couldn't handle signed numbers. Few could add fractions, and very, very few could divide a multi-digit number by a single digit number. In short, almost all were weak in arithmetic. I thought that students should be able to do simple arithmetic, so my solution was to concentrate on problems that used small numbers and to insist that students do those without a calculator. I hardly used the Discovering textbook at all; it typically used larger numbers that just invited students to take out their calculators as the first step in doing the math.<br /><br />Generally, the ability of my students to comprehend algebra parallelled their ability to do arithmetic. Quite a few dropped the course, either transferring to the class that included a support class, dropping math entirely to take Algebra 1 the next year, or occasionally shifting to a class with another teacher. Some stayed in the course and did not pass it. Over 90% of the students who remained in the class passed the Algebra 1 EOC test (but let's remember that the EOC is pretty weak and does not even test much of the material contained in the Algebra 1 state standards).<br /><br />Several comments in this thread have encouraged our schools to emphasize PREPARING students for 8th grade algebra starting in kindergarten and to avoid placing students in Algebra 1 before they can do the work. Of course they are right. I'm convinced that almost everyone has the intelligence to be ready for algebra by 8th grade, but they have to be ready. Our schools are not doing a good job of making them ready.Ted Nuttingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80430903504871260472013-08-18T15:09:44.384-07:002013-08-18T15:09:44.384-07:00That is so smart, "not-gifted." We need...That is so smart, "not-gifted." We need to spend more money and reduce class size significantly in those highly at-risk schools and we'll find gifted kids. <br /><br />It's all about how you spend the money and configure class size. Add in lots and lots of preschool-headstart opportunities.<br /><br />My experience tells me kids can do almost anything K-5 We ask way too little of them but we also don't offer engaging curriculum to tease out the magnificently gifted brains they bring us.nnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63426166761739322842013-08-18T15:05:53.179-07:002013-08-18T15:05:53.179-07:00And once again, a discussion about one thing turns...And once again, a discussion about one thing turns into a heated discussion about Advanced Learning. Very tiresome. <br /><br />It's sad because if any of you read the post, it was about how we can have discussions. So much for that.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-16526357402441783362013-08-18T14:16:26.877-07:002013-08-18T14:16:26.877-07:00Getting to @Valley Girl’s comment about better ide...Getting to @Valley Girl’s comment about better identifying gifted students, the 2007 review of the APP program (by Callahan, Brighton, and Davis, University of Virginia) had this to say:<br /><br /><i>The efforts to increase diversity in the program cannot be based on changes in the identification system that are test-based only. The district should invest in the creation of a “talent-development” program that will address grades K-2 in low income schools. The program, which might be modeled on one such as that offered in Virginia Beach, VA, should be oriented toward presentation of high level, challenging curriculum that will develop the content knowledge, skill, and attitudes that characterize gifted learners.</i><br /><br />This is similar to the Duke study - the K-2 environment was enriched, which led to more students being identified for gifted programming.<br /><br />-not "gifted"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65908795085249921642013-08-18T13:39:32.906-07:002013-08-18T13:39:32.906-07:00Identification wise there are different levels of ...Identification wise there are different levels of giftedness. The APP program identifies those that perform in the 98th percentile (top 2%), or an IQ of around 130. By that definition, at least 1000 SPS students should be identified as gifted. The Mensa society is open to those that score in the top 2%. The top 1% would be an IQ of 135. The top 0.1%, or 99.9th percentile, would be an IQ closer to 150. If that's the definition you are using for "gifted," then yes, they are statistically one in a thousand. Kind of a high bar for services. Those students would be ill served even in the APP program. <br /><br />-not "gifted"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com