tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post592763271208315223..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: District NewsMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56566377368233404172010-05-18T21:46:03.843-07:002010-05-18T21:46:03.843-07:00Grousefinder, I agree with you. Of course this is ...Grousefinder, I agree with you. Of course this is not the best way to decide path placements.<br /><br />The whole process is so frustrating the only way I can cope with it is to try and decipher how the district wants it to go so I can circumvent it to my advantage. I have given up on loftier goals of thinking of how it should be.SE Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537722194376827564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85295697005137581352010-05-18T20:32:51.359-07:002010-05-18T20:32:51.359-07:00SE Mom...Sorry I didn't get back sooner...big ...SE Mom...Sorry I didn't get back sooner...big day at school with the math MSP.<br /><br />Here is what I know:<br /><br />You mentioned: "I looked again on my kid's math placement recommendation from the district for high school, and they used WASL scores from last Spring."<br /><br />Using one year old scores is a way to limit the number of students placed in Advanced/Honors Math courses. It DOES NOT take into account that your child had a banner year (or made significant progress). I suggest, if you (or any of us) do not like your child's placement, tell the school you want to "opt up" to Honors or Advanced Math. Using old data for placement decisions is like eating old sausage...it just should not be done.<br /><br />This is a great question: "Why do you think that 4th grade WASL scores were used? Even for next year's 6th graders should be scores from spring 2009, which would be 5th grade for that cohort."<br /><br />Here we see the machinations of budget and disorganization at work. They are using old scores from last year (Spring WASL) to limit the number of qualified Honors Math students. It is disingenuous. They should just admit: 'We only have room for the creme-de-la-creme (high achievers).' But, that would mean SPS has to admit they cannot accommodate everyone they promised Honors Math seats. Additionally, the Spectrum parents have been promised "non-competive" seats for their children in Honors Math...even if that child scored lower than another 5th grader at a disenfranchised elementary school on the MAP.<br /><br />This is an important point: "And, although I don't have letter in hand yet, it seems that moving up more than one math class is possible. I think that the distinction is "skipping" courses rather than actually have taken more advanced classes. For example, my kid took the equivalent of two math classes this year. She isn't skipping over classes, she has completed them. This info is from communication with Anna-Maria de la Fuente and the 8th grade math teacher."<br /><br />The students don't actually skip coursework (you are correct). They have to complete the equivalent work in the grade prior to the next. So, if you are in 5th grade you must be ready for 7th grade work. However, few teachers are willing to do this in regular ed. classrooms. Your child is lucky if a regular ed. teacher went above and beyond to insure that students got two years in one.<br /><br />Here is the rub on this placement thing...if a student is advanced, based on Spring MAP scores, they should be entitled to a seat in advanced or honors classes. If they are at standard, then the student should be placed in a classroom that pushes the envelope so that the following year they are ahead of standard. It is a shame that the district expects so little out of our students. Every year should be a banner year.<br /><br />SPS needs to rethink its principals (pun intended with the homonym). AND, the district must get rid of the slothful CMP curriculum which drags down even the best math students. There is a running joke with some former elementary students I know who graduate to CMP; 'We get to 'sleep though the first year, write about numbers during the second, and do a little math in the third.' What a waste of teenage energy.grousefinderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01396904078230280660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-60029613711498338402010-05-18T18:35:50.200-07:002010-05-18T18:35:50.200-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80922471953204283722010-05-18T12:05:36.374-07:002010-05-18T12:05:36.374-07:00I also noticed that there is no mention of APP pat...I also noticed that there is no mention of APP pathway for math, and now see that Spec Ed is also pretty vague.<br />Here's my question: Was this Math Pathway program slapped together at the last minute? If yes, that would explain what it has been so poorly communicated and missing some key components like APP/Spec Ed pathway.<br /><br />But, if this Math Pathways program is the result of year long planning then we should be very concerned as it does not demonstrate competence in the department.ParentofThreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15853045587227159562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32984144409471763462010-05-18T10:21:47.039-07:002010-05-18T10:21:47.039-07:00My family is the family that did not get into View...My family is the family that did not get into View Ridge where my older son is, in spite of the school district's "best efforts." My daughter is the five year old who is crying because she doesn't want to pick her brother up from school anymore because they "don't want her there." My daughter who is used to walking her brother to View Ridge is now being asked to ride a bus to school. My family is being asked to split our time and our money between two schools. My family is being asked to explain to a 5 year old why her brother gets art, music and technology classes but they won't have money for that at her school. <br /> <br />You had the chance to make Sandpoint a highly desirable school by starting a language immersion or Spectrum program there. But the money was denied and Sandpoint was relegated to being a tiny, poor, underfunded, undesirable school. We are the family that bears the cost of not including siblings in the assignment plan. I have seen the data on your website that congratulates itself on how clever they have been getting students into their siblings schools. But it does not say how families who didn't get that lucky are to manage. <br /> <br />I have written again and again asking for help to keep our family together. Moving my son out of the Spectrum program to Sandpoint where there is one 2nd, 3rd, 4th,5th grade class- something out of the 19th century, would only serve to harm our family more.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03746409431697891022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68069454369707918762010-05-18T09:47:52.853-07:002010-05-18T09:47:52.853-07:00SEMom--the others are talking about 6th grade plac...SEMom--the others are talking about 6th grade placement, not 9th grade. <br /><br />If they are using WASL at all, it would have to be from 4th and 7th grades since the 5th and 8th graders are taking the WASL(ish thing) right now and placement is being done right now as well. <br /><br />My understanding is that they are only placing kids at most one level up from standard, but that if a parent signs the contract, a student can be placed up one additional level.<br /><br />APP and special ed students do not seem to be addressed in the standard 'Pathway.' Can we assume that those families have received different information and appropriate placement without signing contracts?Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72304871878824686172010-05-18T08:28:45.908-07:002010-05-18T08:28:45.908-07:00Which by the way, I learned of the parent contract...Which by the way, I learned of the parent contract on this blog. <br /><br />Many thanks for keeping parents informed!!!ParentofThreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15853045587227159562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10546025358545822482010-05-18T08:27:28.195-07:002010-05-18T08:27:28.195-07:00I was told that they were using 4th grade math sco...I was told that they were using 4th grade math scores, winter MAPs scores and teacher recommendation for 6th grade placement. Parents were not told of the the option to opt up one level via the parent contract, that seems to be only for those "in the know."ParentofThreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15853045587227159562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23946841911979653212010-05-18T08:10:04.468-07:002010-05-18T08:10:04.468-07:00SE mom I was told by the head of the math dept at ...SE mom I was told by the head of the math dept at Eckstein that they would be using 4th grade WASL scores for 6th grade math placement. It doesn't make sense, but then again, what does in this district?seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88307912069733994692010-05-18T07:22:28.034-07:002010-05-18T07:22:28.034-07:00Grousefinder:
I looked again on my kid's math...Grousefinder:<br /><br />I looked again on my kid's math placement recommendation from the district for high school, and they used WASL scores from last Spring.<br /><br />Why do you think that 4th grade WASL scores were used? Even for next year's 6th graders should be<br />scores from spring 2009, which would be 5th grade for that cohort.<br /><br />And, although I don't have letter in hand yet, it seems that moving up more than one math class is possible. I think that the distinction is "skipping" courses rather than actually have taken more advanced classes. For example, my kid took the equivalent of two math classes this year. She isn't skipping over classes, she has completed them. This info is from communication with Anna-Maria de la Fuente and the 8th grade math teacher.SE Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537722194376827564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71529176359912077082010-05-17T19:28:56.729-07:002010-05-17T19:28:56.729-07:00I just got word that SEA representatives' vote...I just got word that SEA representatives' vote tonight on the RttT Partnership went in favor of signing. It was roughly a 2/3 to 1/3 split, with about 130 some members present.<br /><br />There were about 1/2 dozen teachers and one parent handing out flyers to teachers as they entered the meeting.<br /><br />The SEA webite, as of this afternoon, had a heading "Everything you need to know about Race to the Top." There were two links. Both were basically pro-RttT propoganda. <br /><br />With this, the SEA leadership is showing its true colors, isn't it?<br /><br />I was told the leadership would be telling the reps at the closed door meeting that parents want SEA to sign on to this. Olga knows personally many parents that are strongly opposed to RttT, me being one of them.<br /><br />How can SEA leadership presume to know that parents across the city want this? Do they have survey data?<br /><br />Maybe Ramona Hattendorf (president, Seattle Council PTSA) put out an appeal to her PTSA distribution list, and got parents to write to SEA in support of the RttT Partnership Agreement. I saw her do this with the pro-RttT SB6696; I do not know if she tried to influence today's vote through this means. In general SC-PTSA leadership is playing a most unhelpful role.<br /><br />To the extent she is doing this and succeeding, she is, in my opinion, abusing the trust that parents place in her leadership. I have said as much to her a number of times, so I have no reservations about saying this here.<br /><br /><br />For the life of me I can't see why any teacher would support this, unless they were persuaded by SEA leadership that the union would be excoriated by the local press and the astroturf orgs (LEV, A4E, CPPS, too maybe).<br /><br />This is a poor reason indeed for SEA leadership to give to members. I hope the leadership did not do this earlier today in the closed door session.<br /><br />http:\\RaceToTheTop.pbwiki.comJoan NEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02810050976533673804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9841955607885110622010-05-17T18:20:23.219-07:002010-05-17T18:20:23.219-07:00It's worse than we all thought...to get into M...It's worse than we all thought...to get into Math 7 (or Math 6 Honors...same thing) the District used 4th grade WASL Scores, Winter MAP scores and Spring MAP scores. They applied some complex algorithm designed to limit the Advanced Learning (Math) seats in Middle Schools. And, if your child is SpEd., they tag him/her with some weird moniker that leaves your child in purgatory until the SpEd. gurus figure out his/her future status (even if your SpEd. child is a math Wizbang with 230 on the MAP).<br /><br />In a nutshell...if your child had a good year in 5th grade, but was Level 2 or 3 on the 4th Grade WASL...don't plan on Honors Math, unless the Winter MAP score was out of this universe.<br /><br />That said...there is a contract you can sign to override all of this mishegoss (Yiddish for "craziness"). Here it is:<br /><br />http://www.seattleschools.org/area/math/mp_opting_up_6th.pdf<br /><br />Wow! I never thought the term "moving target" would ever be applied to education, but here we are with a new placement policy...AGAIN!grousefinderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01396904078230280660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72655809648025839132010-05-17T16:17:58.102-07:002010-05-17T16:17:58.102-07:00So here's gonna be the rub for your daughter, ...So here's gonna be the rub for your daughter, she can only opt up one year. So at best she can only get into 10th grade math. But the "with support" designation may work against her there also.<br /><br />I am assuming that since she is coming from APP she should be ready for Alg II, but will be lucky to get her into Geometry.<br /><br />As much as I hate these tests, I have never opted out as I never know what they will use them for, I think this is a good example.<br /><br />Please keep us posted, I think you have a fight on your hands.ParentofThreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15853045587227159562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87258681830075868712010-05-17T14:18:05.070-07:002010-05-17T14:18:05.070-07:00Typically by birthdate, I should think. (WV "...Typically by birthdate, I should think. (WV "gueess" -- I'm gueessing here ...)<br /><br />Helen Schinskehschinskehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10316478950862562594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50414482075022894202010-05-17T12:23:45.926-07:002010-05-17T12:23:45.926-07:00My daughter didn't take the 7th grade WASL. Sh...My daughter didn't take the 7th grade WASL. She took a fall MAP but stopped getting her math instruction at school after that, so she didn't get a winter MAP. Since she's not taking math instruction at school, there's no 8th grade course (it had been Algebra) and there's no 1st semester grade. It's all Not Available.<br /><br />So, if none of the data points that are used to make the determination are available, how can they make a determination?Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79006065800245302182010-05-17T10:07:24.423-07:002010-05-17T10:07:24.423-07:00Does any know what these magical numbers are to qu...Does any know what these magical numbers are to qualify for honors math in 6th grade?<br /><br />My son's teacher said he should be in, but I don't trust it until I get the letter.<br /><br />The information has been sorely lacking on how placements would be made. Just makes everyone more anxious and frustrated. Way to go SPS!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07549586969846965016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30886345484529939752010-05-17T09:15:59.595-07:002010-05-17T09:15:59.595-07:00Charlie did your daughter take the WASL and the MA...Charlie did your daughter take the WASL and the MAP? I remember you had thought about boycotting the WASL. <br /><br />If your daughter did take the WASL and MAP why is the info absent? If she didn't take it then what criteria did they use to determine where to place your her?seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10986363533720952542010-05-17T09:08:33.980-07:002010-05-17T09:08:33.980-07:00At the bottom of the first page of my daughter'...At the bottom of the first page of my daughter's math placement form it says:<br /><br />WASL: Not Available<br />MAP: Not Available<br />8th Grade Course: Not Available<br />1st semester grade: Not Available<br /><br />From this, they were able to make this 9th grade Math Course Recommendation: Algebra 1 with Support.<br /><br />I'm going to call and ask how they got any conclusion from the total absence of inputs.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71474593384288489392010-05-17T07:52:18.688-07:002010-05-17T07:52:18.688-07:00Gavroche, I'll check but I'm fairly certai...Gavroche, I'll check but I'm fairly certain that your child doesn't have to take the MAP. Now, of course, they will tell you that it helps the teacher know your child's skill level (although I think most teachers are smart enough to figure it out without the test) and, of course, if they base math placement on this test, it might exclude your child.<br /><br />I'll ask.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27066652248987454142010-05-17T07:47:50.471-07:002010-05-17T07:47:50.471-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13345627281959598792010-05-17T07:45:26.740-07:002010-05-17T07:45:26.740-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89031732746121389982010-05-17T07:26:19.335-07:002010-05-17T07:26:19.335-07:00They just have to get good grades, do a little ext...<i>They just have to get good grades, do a little extra homework, and go to math tutoring to help struggling students</i><br /><br />Tutoring (without compensation) as a condition of getting honors status? How is this equitable or even legal? Wouldn't tutoring of other students have to be voluntary? Can anyone else weigh in on this?SPS momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07868844486562389924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7248984921332041182010-05-17T06:44:00.914-07:002010-05-17T06:44:00.914-07:00"Gee, I hope I don't have things wrong. I..."Gee, I hope I don't have things wrong. I got the impression from the counseling office at Ballard High that at high school you can simply sign up for honors if you want to do so"<br /><br />Well. maybe, if your high school offers honors classes. Our assignment high school, Hale, doesn't offer any honors classes at all. A student can earn honors in a regular math class, but they are doing the same work at the same pace as the rest of the class. They just have to get good grades, do a little extra homework, and go to math tutoring to help struggling students.<br /><br />No thanks.seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10687348787827531382010-05-17T06:38:52.211-07:002010-05-17T06:38:52.211-07:00I don't really understand the function of the ...I don't really understand the function of the BEX Oversight Committee as it is refuses to offer any sort of oversight.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-45057684662820737142010-05-17T00:30:49.364-07:002010-05-17T00:30:49.364-07:00"The member asked again but didn't it occ...<i><b>"The member asked again but didn't it occur to you to bring in a neutral party? Shrugs"</b></i><br /><br />Neutral .. Neutral<br />We don't need NO stinkin' Neutrals... we are bullies <br />get it bullies.<br /><br />Check the record...bullies.dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.com