tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post6225603183858137422..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: How Meta is this?Melissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71383535423275718772012-05-30T07:02:42.532-07:002012-05-30T07:02:42.532-07:00Miffed Again - Thank you for your participation.
...Miffed Again - Thank you for your participation.<br /><br />In my response to Miffed, I answered point by point. For example, I quoted the statistic about family satisfaction with Seattle schools in response to Miffed's statement "My kids are in Seattle Public Schools and frankly I am not impressed at all. My kids, and all kids DESERVE much better."<br /><br />Miffed didn't say that the schools were not effective, and I didn't claim that the survey proved that they were, so your contribution, that the survey results didn't mean that the schools are effective is true, but not relevant. While we're at it, the survey results don't mean that the schools are painted blue either.<br /><br />In response to your point - outside the context of Miffed's comment - what would indicate that the schools are "effective"? Ah, when they are performing well relative to international peers. Is there any measure of how Seattle public school students compare to international peers? Your data doesn't do it. Are we talking about all of the schools (or all of the public schools) in the country or just the ones in Seattle?<br /><br />Miffed Again writes: "Miffed thinks that when our children are performing as well as other children around the world on academic tests, then we can safely say that the schools are good, ie: competitive." Wow! I didn't read that at all. I didn't read it because Miffed didn't write it. Go back to what Miffed wrote and you'll see nothing of the kind. No reference to comparisons to international "competitors". Again, a stunning failure to be relevant on your part.<br /><br />Again, to respond to your comment independent of Miffed's points, I don't see anything wrong with those international standings. I don't have some kind of Ricky Bobby view of things that says "If you ain't first, you're last". I don't have some weird nationalistic insistence that the U.S. be first in everything. Again, those are not the numbers for Seattle public school students, so what's your point?<br /><br />Miffed Again, like Miffed, is focused on class size and believes (hopes) that charter schools will have smaller class sizes. Why? Where is there any reason in the world to think that charters will have smaller class sizes when one of the primary distinguishing features of charter schools is their exemption from class size limitations? If a public school converts to a charter school and reduces the school's enrollment, that will just overcrowd the surrounding schools. It makes sense. Do the math.<br /><br />The creation of a new charter school in a building that isn't already a public school would draw students out of the public schools and reduce overcrowding - if the schools that lost students to the charter were overcrowded to begin with. Not all schools are overcrowded. Let's face it. The students that will move to the charter schools are the ones who are in under-performing schools, and the under-performing schools are not crowded.<br /><br />Despite this focus on class size, there is no reason to believe that any charter school created in Seattle will have smaller class sizes than the surrounding public schools. No reason to believe it at all.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-92103459010830980252012-05-29T19:53:54.245-07:002012-05-29T19:53:54.245-07:00Here is more info about charters..
http://www2.ed...Here is more info about charters..<br /><br />http://www2.ed.gov/admins/comm/choice/charter/index.html<br /><br />And another possible positive about having small class sizes is that teachers can more effectively maintain behavior before all sorts of social issues take hold and eclipse the whole reason for being in school to begin with...TO LEARN. This is a problem in the public schools today. Too many social issues hampering the learning process and if this is a product of our complex society in the 21st century, then we need to restructure our schools to combat this issue..by making class sizes smaller and having better teacher to student ratios.<br /><br />To rip off the "Rent Is Too Damn High" guy..."The Class Sizes Are Too Damn Large." <br /><br />-Intrigued by ChartersAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-73258302989977951462012-05-29T19:25:17.814-07:002012-05-29T19:25:17.814-07:00http://www.mackinac.org/16774
-Another Vote for t...http://www.mackinac.org/16774<br /><br />-Another Vote for the Charter Schools<br />(and Charlie, this has nothing to do with being conservative or liberal..this has to do with wanting America's children to have the best educations without having to spend $25,000 a yr on fancy private schools b/c not everyone can do that.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31919947759162447872012-05-29T19:17:45.309-07:002012-05-29T19:17:45.309-07:00"Over 80% of parents in Seattle are satisfied..."Over 80% of parents in Seattle are satisfied with the public schools," Charlie writes.<br />Wonderful. Does that make the schools effective?? Not necessarily. <br /><br />Miffed thinks that when our children are performing as well as other children around the world on academic tests, then we can safely say that the schools are good, ie: competitive. Until then, I am not convinced. I am not saying there aren't good teachers, etc., but large class sizes make it impossible for kids to get the attention they need. Schools and classrooms are too big. Charters would break up the larger public schools and ultimately provide kids with smaller class sizes. It makes sense. Do the math. <br /><br />Look what adding the STEM school did in WS?? It allowed other schools to maintain better enrollment numbers...better for kids. Charters would do the same thing. <br /><br />Read the link below for a better idea of what American kids are doing compared to kids in other comparable countries. <br /><br />If we don't try something other than what we have (which is impossible to fix b/c it does not get smaller, it just gets bigger, then we can forget it. The kids are the future of the country. Please read the stats I just posted if you want to see what kind of education the kids in this country END UP with. What Seattle parents think might not be relevant compared to what is happening in this country to our young people. <br /><br />Miffed Again<br /><br />http://4brevard.com/choice/international-test-scores.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62114098820164406002012-05-28T14:29:33.433-07:002012-05-28T14:29:33.433-07:00Good idea, Charlie! A WEA charter management non-p...Good idea, Charlie! A WEA charter management non-profit! I like it. It would indeed disturb many, many charter backers.seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10246549746597460912012-05-28T13:58:40.449-07:002012-05-28T13:58:40.449-07:00Yes, the more I think about it, the more it makes ...Yes, the more I think about it, the more it makes excellent sense for the WEA to apply to convert nearly every public school in the state and for the WEA to take over the management and administration of the schools.<br /><br />Man! Talk about a backfire for conservatives who were hoping to use charter schools to break up "union control of schools". Their ridiculous myth could actually come true thanks to their own efforts.<br /><br />Mwah ha ha!!<br /><br />I really am a sneaky bastard.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-64530040819961887912012-05-28T13:55:03.654-07:002012-05-28T13:55:03.654-07:00I don't think many school districts will step ...I don't think many school districts will step up and act as authorizers. Maybe one or two of the tinier ones who will take the 4% to "oversee" an online charter school. There just isn't much - if any - incentive for a school district to do this. I think the state commission will be, far and away, the primary (if not the only) authorizer.<br /><br />If I were the WEA I would DEFINITELY make plans to flood the pool with my applications. Write one good application one time and have everyone use it as a template (with minor local adjustments). If necessary, they could even actually form the school, but the law specifically requires any unionized employees of the school to be members of their own bargaining group - separate from any other. Of course, if the applicant is the WEA... they would have no trouble agreeing to the CBA for the District since the union would be negotiating with itself. The WEA is, of course, a non-profit. If it were really necessary, the WEA could create an independent non-profit subsidiary for the express purpose of serving as the charter school management organization.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-52225611602235535432012-05-28T12:39:15.955-07:002012-05-28T12:39:15.955-07:00"The conversation is right under editorial an...<i>"The conversation is right under editorial and opinion on the main page when *I* click on the Times website. I just hit refresh and it was still there-why would some of us see it and others not?"</i><br /><br />TLM, wow, can't tell ya but I've checked 3-4 times and did not see it on the Editorial/Opinion page. Maybe you have the right "cookies"?mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65836994172178248102012-05-28T10:43:43.708-07:002012-05-28T10:43:43.708-07:00Of course, just because there are multiple applica...Of course, just because there are multiple applications doesn't mean they will all be approved. The lottery only occurs with the approved ones but I think teachers are savvy enough to know how to put together a good application.<br /><br />But going further, that is why there are likely to many applications (KIPP, Green Dot), etc. to maximize their chances. <br /><br />What I'm wondering is how School Boards are supposed to find the time to do this and how many, in the end, will farm it out to companies. Will Boards even really be part of it in the end?Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76817141213711288982012-05-28T10:41:25.173-07:002012-05-28T10:41:25.173-07:00Miffed, you are sort of working from the "sta...Miffed, you are sort of working from the "status quo" POV. None of us are saying that the system now is perfect and, of course, it does not work for all kids. <br /><br />That SPS is overcrowded is a function of people coming back to SPS and SPS not being ready for them. It doesn't mean much academically (has nothing to do with the curriculum).<br /><br />I don't know that charters would fail here. But I know the success rate is incredibly low and the this initiative does little to guarantee the best charters would come it. What it does guarantee is a lot of disruption. <br /><br />And Charlie is right. The district, with the union, are both trying new things. And there are two event this Thursday to talk about more. It's not static at all. <br /><br />I love Charlie's mind, always one step ahead. I hadn't even thought of the WEA being able to do that but yes, flood the pool and make it go to a lottery and there you are. <br /><br />Brilliant.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27277916251167696372012-05-28T10:30:57.889-07:002012-05-28T10:30:57.889-07:00@Charlie....
there is very little push back again...@Charlie....<br /><br />there is very little push back against charters from the unions nationally... Randi Weingarten (AFT president) at one time had two charter schools, which were funded by Eli BROAD,and GATES has just given the NEA $550,000 for "collaboration"... <br /><br />I doubt there will be much union push back here... you saw how lacklustre the fight against TFA was...<br /><br />additionally, most states started with caps on charter school numbers and THEN LIFTED THE CAPS OVER A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME...<br /><br />this proposal to allow only a small number of charters is just a strategy to get charters past the voters... once they're in, then there will be no stopping them...Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50155758402522087202012-05-28T09:35:06.862-07:002012-05-28T09:35:06.862-07:00Here's something that I don't get about th...Here's something that I don't get about this charter initiative:<br /><br />Why did they write it so that it can so easily be subverted? Even if this thing passes, it will be ridiculously easy for the WEA to stop all but one or two charter schools from ever being created.<br /><br />Think about it folks: the law allows only eight charter schools a year statewide. If there are more than eight applications, then the eight that are authorized are selected by lottery, right?<br /><br />How many sincere charter applications do you think we will actually see statewide? Honestly, do you really think that there will be more than six? Two or three in Seattle, one or two in Tacoma, and maybe one in Tri-Cities. They are not going to appear in Issaquah or Bellevue.<br /><br />So if the WEA floods the field with hundreds of charter applications, the eight selected each year are likely to all be from the WEA, right? Think about it: six sincere ones and 300 from the WEA. The odds that any of the six will be picked are pretty slim. Then, after the charters are authorized, they just don't actually form.<br /><br />How could the WEA create 300 (or more) charter applications? Through the teacher trigger. The WEA could ask every member to vote to convert their school to a charter. Every public school in Washington could be a charter conversion applicant. That's thousands. Only eight are chosen. All eight will probably be from the WEA sponsored group. Then the charters just don't form.<br /><br />I don't understand why the folks who wrote this thing included such an obvious way for the WEA to block it.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88099049297822184092012-05-28T07:19:31.159-07:002012-05-28T07:19:31.159-07:00Thank you Miffed, for providing us with the ration...Thank you Miffed, for providing us with the rationale for your support for charters.<br /><br />First, let me ask you. Do we really have "<i>crappy overloaded public schools where kids get rotten educations and tax payers spend $10,000 a yr per child so they can be in overcrowded classrooms and not get the attention they need to succeed??</i>"<br /><br />Clearly, you think so, or you wouldn't write that. What reason do you have to believe that the charter school classrooms won't be just as overcrowded as our current public school classrooms? Is there anything in the charter legislation that indicates to you that the classrooms will be less crowded?<br /><br />Second, you write: "<i>What is so great about the public schools that you are protecting this massive failed behemoth?</i>"<br /><br />Have our public schools failed? By what measure? What would success look like? I hear a lot of people talk about the failure of public schools, but when I look around, I see a lot of success. I see a highly literate society. I see students in school than were not there before. I see graduation rates at historical highs. I see a greater proportion of students going on to post-secondary education than ever before. I see graduation requirements that are much higher than they were when I went to high school - I certainly didn't need to pass Algebra II or have a year of laboratory science to graduate. Where is the failure that you write about?<br /><br />Third, you wrote: "<i>The teachers' union allows the worst teachers to teach until the end of time.</i>" Actually, and I would hope that you know this by now, it is principals who allow bad teachers to continue to teach. The union only protects due process.<br /><br />Fourth, you ask: "<i>Why are you so sure that charter schools in Seattle will fail b/c they failed elsewhere?</i>" Actually, I'm not sure that they will fail. But I'm looking for some reason to believe that they will succeed and I'm not seeing it. Are you?<br /><br />"<i>Time to try something new.</i>"<br /><br />We try new things all the time. There are lots of new things being tried in classrooms all across the District. And the District tries new things with schools as well. Cleveland STEM, STEM at Boren, Queen Anne Elementary, all of the Creative Approach Schools, these are all new things that the District is trying.<br /><br />You want to try something new? How about we have all of the students come to school with their socks on inside-out? I'm not saying that it will close the academic achievement gap all by itself, but it is one tool in the toolbox and we shouldn't reject it just because it is something new. All of those folks who are nay-sayers about inside-out socks are just protecting a failed status quo.<br /><br />My point, and I do have one, is that when the arguments in favor of charter schools are no different than the arguments in favor of turning socks inside-out, then they are not strong enough to merit support.<br /><br />Miffed writes: "<i>My kids are in Seattle Public Schools and frankly I am not impressed at all. My kids, and all kids DESERVE much better.</i>"<br /><br />Over 80% of Seattle public school families are either satisfied or very satisfied with their children's school and teachers, but you're not. That's okay. What would be better, Miffed? And what makes you think that charter schools will provide it?Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72912917899428769322012-05-28T06:35:25.164-07:002012-05-28T06:35:25.164-07:00@Rufus X -
I'm with you on that. The mean girl...@Rufus X -<br />I'm with you on that. The mean girl thing with Lynne Varner is right on - her "published" (ahem) works in the Times is the equivalent of her behavior in class, while her tweets are how she behaves between classes and at lunch time. She does not do sarcasm well.<br /><br />OompahAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5235931024906266032012-05-28T00:20:44.966-07:002012-05-28T00:20:44.966-07:00I shouldn't be surprised, but am still a bit b...I shouldn't be surprised, but am still a bit befuddled by the whole Mean Girl, dismissive tone of the tweets of @lkvarner. Can't wait to see a future piece from her titled "Let's Have a Conversation about Contempt and Bullying."Rufus Xnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31539489916063357042012-05-27T21:41:50.245-07:002012-05-27T21:41:50.245-07:00Most people working at the Seattle Times know what...Most people working at the Seattle Times know what they are doing although some are questionable and naive. <br /><br />Miffed AgainAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-73061842317572452872012-05-27T21:40:07.715-07:002012-05-27T21:40:07.715-07:00We get it. You're not for charter schools. Fin...We get it. You're not for charter schools. Fine. That is your opinion. <br /><br />Is it better to have crappy overloaded public schools where kids get rotten educations and tax payers spend $10,000 a yr per child so they can be in overcrowded classrooms and not get the attention they need to succeed?? <br /><br />What is so great about the public schools that you are protecting this massive failed behemoth?<br /><br />The teachers' union allows the worst teachers to teach until the end of time. <br /><br />Why are you so sure that charter schools in Seattle will fail b/c they failed elsewhere? <br /><br />Time to try something new. I would be all for it. My kids are in Seattle Public Schools and frankly I am not impressed at all. My kids, and all kids DESERVE much better. <br /><br />Kids first.<br /><br />MiffedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89139473344185415322012-05-27T20:46:27.328-07:002012-05-27T20:46:27.328-07:00@Melissa - You quoted Varner's tweet:
"I&...@Melissa - You quoted Varner's tweet:<br />"I'm already in a convo w/ tens of thousands thru @SeaTimesOpinion. Works fine. You [Charlie] follow my every utterance."<br />Then you add,<br />"She's having a conversation with thousands of people? Sure she is."<br /><br />Of course she's NOT. Varner says Charlie LISTENS to her utterance, but that is not a conversation. It's her spouting, then refuing to engage. Charlie listens to her spouts, tries to engage....nothin'<br /><br />Varner is certainly not engaging in the comment section of the "invitation to converse" in the Times editorial.<br /><br />Wow. It's just so freakin' transparent...Invite us to have a conversation....as if that was what the Times wanted. Varner is a shill, and the Times is paying her. It's pathetic.seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23034940400181011512012-05-27T13:14:03.943-07:002012-05-27T13:14:03.943-07:00Watching, we don't need to reveal our numbers ...Watching, we don't need to reveal our numbers except when we do choose to monetize (and if we have advertisers who need those figures). Let's just say for a little blog, we do pretty well.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68014393586593894692012-05-27T12:42:36.375-07:002012-05-27T12:42:36.375-07:00"This blog, like it or not, is the major medi..."This blog, like it or not, is the major media for public education."<br /><br />Charlie,<br /><br />How many viewers per day?Watchingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10539682647236894822012-05-27T12:15:19.938-07:002012-05-27T12:15:19.938-07:00Varner says in yet another Tweet:
"@charlie_...Varner says in yet another Tweet:<br /><br />"@charlie_mas Sorry Charlie, I'm already in a convo w/ tens of thousands thru @SeaTimesOpinion. Works fine. You follow my every utterance."<br /><br />She's having a conversation with thousands of people? Sure she is.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9427721311157400052012-05-27T11:22:08.734-07:002012-05-27T11:22:08.734-07:00The conversation is right under editorial and opin...The conversation is right under editorial and opinion on the main page when *I* click on the Times website. I just hit refresh and it was still there-why would some of us see it and others not? I know I'm looking at the right one-published May 25 and has 152 comments? Maybe it's necessary to go to the main page first but I don't think that's hard to find.TLMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91922726691806251792012-05-27T10:45:37.216-07:002012-05-27T10:45:37.216-07:00I notice that there is no link to the "let...I notice that there is no link to the "let's have a conversation" editorial on the Times website this morning. I guess they didn't really want to have a conversation after all.<br />I'm SHOCKED, I tell you, SHOCKED.seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32313814113233140092012-05-27T10:25:40.822-07:002012-05-27T10:25:40.822-07:00"Why even bother to try to engage such an obv..."Why even bother to try to engage such an obviously purchased soul?"<br /><br />I agree. Besides, talk to people around town..Varner lost her credibility a long time ago.<br /><br />Bring your campaign to others. It will be a better use of your time.<br /><br />Love the idea of standing next to signature gathers with a "Decline to Sign" campaign.Disgustednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6294269709780755882012-05-27T10:13:31.705-07:002012-05-27T10:13:31.705-07:00Hilarious. Apparently, the Times doesn't real...Hilarious. Apparently, the Times doesn't really want to have a conversation because they buried the OpEd on their website. One must use search to find it.<br /><br />Having it in print in the Sunday Edition is a pretty one-sided conversation if you ask me.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.com