tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post6372113797111305947..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Open Thread for Thornton Creek at Jane AddamsMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-69274737538290465432008-12-02T14:34:00.000-08:002008-12-02T14:34:00.000-08:00bird lover said: I think the Adams building must b...<B>bird lover</B> said: <I>I think the Adams building must be used for a traditional middle school, or at the very least a traditional k-8 school. But an alternative?? Summit and AS1 could not fill their buildings. While all of the traditional elementary, middle and high schools in the NE are full with wait lists. <BR/><BR/>Doesn't this tell the district something? We need more traditional seats, not alternative.</I><BR/><BR/>It may have already been said, but Thornton Creek, Salmon Bay, TOPS, Orca, and Pathfinder are consistently full and consistently have waitlists. There is plenty of demand for alternative schools, unless the particular school is failing, just like there is plenty of demand for traditional reference area schools, unless the particular school is failing.<BR/><BR/>Thornton Creek is a strong program and I have faith that it will be able to effectively utilize a larger building. AS#1 and Summit are struggling, and it may make sense at this point to make room for the strong programs and clear away the programs that are not in demand.Roy Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07677294298900083208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42221861663588212142008-12-02T11:53:00.000-08:002008-12-02T11:53:00.000-08:00So we will be busing kids to a reference middle sc...So we will be busing kids to a reference middle school when they are in the walk zone for a different school. <BR/><BR/>I would like to see the transportation budget decrease when we are finished with the new assignment plan.old salthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07971380233996439817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70520188414740303032008-12-02T09:52:00.000-08:002008-12-02T09:52:00.000-08:00To clarify Harium's comments about the displaced M...To clarify Harium's comments about the displaced Meany students, he said in his reply to Charlie:<BR/><BR/>"In the orginal proposal, some of the students from Meany would be assigned to Hamilton others would be assigned to schools near their residences."<BR/><BR/>I don't see any mention of setting up reference areas for Hamilton in Capitol Hill.<BR/><BR/>Adhoc, unless you are comfortable with the Thornton Creek option (and middle school seats there miraculously appear), Shoreline Schools seem to be working well for you, and seem to be your best option for next year, despite the inconvenience of having to first enroll your child in a Shoreline elementary school for 6th grade, then move up to Kellog middle school. I know families who have done that, and it has worked for them. The lack of transportation is a pain, though, so it is not an option that is accessible to all families.<BR/><BR/>Charlie, there may not be a NE middle school crisis at the current time, because there are seats at Hamilton that could be filled with students from NE Seattle, but projections show a very different story in just a few years time.North End Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781046556751463879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6674812966869329522008-12-02T08:52:00.000-08:002008-12-02T08:52:00.000-08:00The District has a number of capacity management p...The District has a number of capacity management problems. One of those problems is with northeast middle schools. The problem does not require the District to change the amount of capacity, but to re-allocate it. That re-allocation will come with the new student assignment plan.<BR/><BR/>There are fewer than 2,000 middle school students in the Northeast Region. That's straight off the enrollment data from the District's new assignment plan web site. When the renovations at Hamilton are complete, the school will have a capacity of 1,000. Eckstein clearly also has a capacity of more than 1,000. Between the two buildings there is certainly sufficient space for all of the northeast region students. That's an objective truth.<BR/><BR/>In the new student assignment plan, middle schools will not share reference areas; they will each have their own. In the new student assignment plan, the middle school reference areas will be right-sized and will correspond with elementary school reference areas to create feeder patterns for vertical alignment and social continuity.<BR/><BR/>It is clear to anyone who considers the matter that the reference area for Eckstein will probably encompass the reference areas for John Rogers, Olympic Hills, Sacajawea, Wedgwood, Olympic View, and Decatur - give or take. Most of these parts of the city could not be in any other middle school's reference area.<BR/><BR/>The reference area for Hamilton is likely to include the reference areas for View Ridge, Bryant, Laurelhurst, Green Lake, JSIS, B.F. Day, and West Woodland.<BR/><BR/>Please remember that the creation of a reference area for Decatur will push the Bryant reference area south and the View Ridge reference area east and south from their current boundaries.<BR/><BR/>I may be wrong about some of the specific schools, but the general idea will hold. Between these two schools there is plenty of room for all of the students in the area. The distance tie-breaker, however, has caused it to be poorly allocated by keeping the students in the far north out of Eckstein.<BR/><BR/>There are two critical points here. 1) There can be no question that there is sufficient middle school capacity in the northeast already. 2) Anyone looking to the future will see that Bryant, Laurelhurst and View Ridge are most likely to be in the Hamilton reference area when the new student assignment plan is written.<BR/><BR/>If you see it any other way, please describe your reasoning.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21287712106744906472008-12-02T06:35:00.000-08:002008-12-02T06:35:00.000-08:00Thornton Creek will be full from day one with curr...Thornton Creek will be full from day one with current Thornton Creek students, AS1 students, and displaced N Seattle Summit students. They will not be adding any new capacity, just accommodating current kids who have been displaced. In fact the new TC will not be able to accomodate all of the displaced students that live in the N plus there own. So the capacity issue will in fact be exasperated by the closure or AS1 and move of Summit.<BR/><BR/>So how Charlie, can you say that there is no shortage of middle school seats in the NE cluster.<BR/><BR/>Kids living north of 110 already can't get into Eckstein as is. Some do go to Hamilton because they get a bus, but many, and I mean many, go to Shoreline (myself included) because the school is close to our home, their middle school is strong, and they welcome us with open arms.<BR/><BR/>I have to choose a ms for younger son next year. Where can I send him? We probably won't get into Eckstein. Now, we won't get into Hamilton either, and frankly, I'm glad because it doesn't perform well, and I don't want my kid on a one hour bus ride (selfish me). Though I do not want an alt school for my child (I tried one it didn't work for him) I couldn't get into TC anyway. It will be full from day 1. Heck, I can't even go to Shoreline because their middle schools only offer 7th and 8th grades.<BR/><BR/>So Charlie, since you say there is no lack of capacity in the NE, please tell me which traditional MS my child can go to. And, please tell me quickly because I have to enroll him in a few weeks. And please, for gods sake, don't suggest something across town.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85836302215442341662008-12-02T06:24:00.000-08:002008-12-02T06:24:00.000-08:00This whole conversation has just taken a different...This whole conversation has just taken a different turn.<BR/><BR/>As you know Hamilton serves about 400 students that live in it's immediate neighborhood.<BR/><BR/>Now Director Martin Morris posted on his blog that Hamilton will be the new reference school for kids that live in the Meany reference area. It will officially be a reference area school for Capitol Hill/Central. <BR/><BR/>That does not leave much, if any, room for NE students.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33645015608064995982008-12-02T00:11:00.000-08:002008-12-02T00:11:00.000-08:00The is no shortage of middle school space in north...The is no shortage of middle school space in northeast Seattle. There is plenty of space. The problem is that the space is at Hamilton and Hamilton is not appealing to the community it is supposed to serve.<BR/><BR/>Folks in the Northeast may not like the space, but they do have it.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-48366700738810866982008-12-01T17:01:00.000-08:002008-12-01T17:01:00.000-08:00Thornton Creek is also full with a wait list at ev...Thornton Creek is also full with a wait list at every grade just like all of the traditional schoosl and they added additional classrooms as well last year just like all of the traditional schools. Salmon Bay and Tops are alternative K-8s that also full with wait lists at every grade every year. That also tells the District something.<BR/><BR/>I am not saying it is a good idea. A better idea would have been to open a closed building like Sandpoint or Marshall so that there was actual new capacity. But in a budget crisis, the district simply refused to open a new building. <BR/><BR/>I think the real issue here is that a Thornton Creek K8 would be full right at the start and then we still need a new middle school in a few years. Thornton Creek has very high test scores and enough families would choose it that it would easily fill. <BR/><BR/>It will not take any pressure off of Eckstein but frankly I don't think anything will take pressure off of Eckstein. Most of the families in the Jane Adams neighborhood are already too far North to get into Eckstein. They are either bussed (past Eckstein, much to their chagrin) to Hamilton and/or drive to Kellogg in Shoreline. This type of K8 might be attractive enough to get some of those Shoreline families back to SPS.<BR/><BR/>Eckstein is a very high performing school and it has a track record of handling its 1200 kids very well. I don't see that number going down anytime soon. The number of kids in the area are going up to quickly. Hamilton, Eckstein and Jane Adams would all be full in a few years, regardless of how each of the schools are programed just because of the number of bodies in this part of town.katiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16390767697578867215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91967591923596271132008-12-01T14:31:00.000-08:002008-12-01T14:31:00.000-08:00I agree with the above poster, using Adams to hous...I agree with the above poster, using Adams to house an alternative school will not address the over crowding at Eckstein. At all.<BR/><BR/>I think the Adams building must be used for a traditional middle school, or at the very least a traditional k-8 school. But an alternative?? Summit and AS1 could not fill their buildings. While all of the traditional elementary, middle and high schools in the NE are full with wait lists. <BR/><BR/>Doesn't this tell the district something? We need more traditional seats, not alternative.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24589842206440658312008-12-01T10:58:00.000-08:002008-12-01T10:58:00.000-08:00So how does making Thornton Creek a K-8 help with ...So how does making Thornton Creek a K-8 help with middle school capacity issues in the NE? Are they expecting that parents with kids at Bryant, Wedgwood, etc will choose this program over Eckstein? Is that a realistic expectation? If we wanted an alternative school, we would have chosen Thornton Creek at Kindergarten.<BR/><BR/>I just don't understand how offering an alternative middle school program is "better" than having offered a new tradiational K-8 in the Adams building and leaving Thornton Creek where it is, as a K-5. I'd really love to understand how this is supposed to work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22344655776912107742008-11-30T20:44:00.000-08:002008-11-30T20:44:00.000-08:00AS#1 @ Pinehurst must stay open :1. Geographic &am...AS#1 @ Pinehurst must stay open :<BR/><BR/>1. Geographic & Proximity Criteria. Closing AS#1 would destroy the capacity plan that was just passed because it eliminates the increased capacity in the N, NE, NW. The numbers are being double counted: The Jane Addams building has 32 teaching stations. If the new Thornton Creek K-8 is set up as a mushroom model then there is no other rooms for other k-5 classrooms: 12 taken up by TC, 10 taken up by Autism, 8 taken up by AS#1 which only leaves 1 left over classroom for excess NE capacity and NO room for additional middle school seats.<BR/><BR/><BR/>2. Geographic & Proximity Criteria. Decator K-5 will be filled with NE families on day one. Olympic Hills and Northgate have also been promised to NE families for capacity relief.<BR/><BR/><BR/>3. Cost Per Pupil Criteria. The building could be filled with displaced Summit families who do not want to move out of the area thereby reducing the cost per pupil number.<BR/><BR/><BR/>4. Cost per pupil criteria. We accept that all city draw transportation would end. Future transportation would be included for N, NE, NW only.<BR/><BR/><BR/>5. Balance to Programs Criteria. There is high demand for alternative schools. There would still be no leftover capacity at Salmon Bay and Thornton Creek with the removal of 700 alternative seats from the North end (summit and AS#1). There would be no room to add alternative seats in future years.<BR/><BR/><BR/>6. Balance to Programs Criteria. AS#1 serves an important equity function as evidenced by the higher number of minority and free/reduced school lunch students.<BR/><BR/><BR/>7. Academic Performance Criteria. AS#1 is performing well under the Alternative Schools check list developed by the district. The WASL is not a good measure for the school.<BR/><BR/><BR/>8. Academic Performance Criteria. District should wait until they have an alternative schools audit to make determinations about whether or not to continue the AS#1 program.<BR/><BR/><BR/>9. Potential Consequence. Closing a north end building will ensure that Shoreline will get more North End families which means less money for the district. 20% of families did not go where the district reassigned them last time. 10% left SPS altogether. The district would lose money by pushing families out.<BR/><BR/><BR/>10. Potential Consequence. Unnecessary disruption. Anyone else that moves in the building will displace the current population without giving them anywhere else to go. The district will only be switching populations by keeping Pinehurst open but discontinuing AS#1.Megan Mchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08526624057081098551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20952084483443986152008-11-29T11:43:00.000-08:002008-11-29T11:43:00.000-08:00Harium is asking for input on the closure/consolid...Harium is asking for input on the closure/consolidation on his blog. He is board director for the NE cluster. Make your feelings knownanonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38784687020336336982008-11-29T10:45:00.000-08:002008-11-29T10:45:00.000-08:00Charlie, why couldn't Hamilton's reference area go...Charlie, why couldn't Hamilton's reference area go east to west and Eckstein's north to south? My feeling is that the district should try to provide the shortest bus ride for the most kids. I don't get why north end kids should have a longer bus ride being bused past Eckstein to get to Hamilton than if kids in the east of the region busing past Eckstein to get to Hamilton. <BR/><BR/>The assumption is that everyone in the lower part of the region (NE)should go to Eckstein but that leaves an entire<BR/>region (N) to have to go further to Hamilton with a longer bus ride. How is that fair?Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83746103168981246872008-11-29T10:40:00.000-08:002008-11-29T10:40:00.000-08:00The other great thing that Shoreline offers for no...The other great thing that Shoreline offers for north end families is another high school option. Kids that move through Kellogg are offered a spot at Shorecrest HS, which is right next to Kellogg. Shorecrest is a traditional HS that rivals Roosevelt in every way. For families that live in the north part of the NE cluster, who can't get into Roosevelt, and whose child may not be a good fit for somewhat alternative Hale, there is another option in Shoreline...Shorecrest.<BR/><BR/>Socially, it's great for the kids too. Since, Shoreline only has one high school east of I-5 (Shorecrest) all of the Kellogg 8th graders move as a class to Shorecrest. In other words the graduating 8th graders of Kellogg are the following years freshman class at Shorecrest. The cohort stays together.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-52225525105829429642008-11-29T10:32:00.000-08:002008-11-29T10:32:00.000-08:00Kellogg is much smaller than Eckstein. 50% smaller...Kellogg is much smaller than Eckstein. 50% smaller. It serves 690 students, while Eckstein serves 1250. While Kellogg may serve 345 kids per grade, the total bodies in the building are 690. 690 teenagers under one roof is much much more manageable than 1250, no matter how you dice it up. And they have smaller class sizes and no portables!!! All of my sons teachers know him very well.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46211291874315621982008-11-29T08:32:00.000-08:002008-11-29T08:32:00.000-08:00It sounds like Kellogg is really wonderful. No wo...It sounds like Kellogg is really wonderful. No wonder so many families choose to go there rather than take an hour plus bus ride to Hamilton. Since it is only two grades it is not that much smaller than Eckstein's 1200 kids in three grades with 1/3 of them in portables.katiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16390767697578867215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-55886497847592901442008-11-28T23:05:00.000-08:002008-11-28T23:05:00.000-08:00adhoc,Thank you for your views on Shoreline school...adhoc,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your views on Shoreline schools. I know of several families with similar opinions. It definitely sounds worth looking into.North End Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781046556751463879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11491410854222940982008-11-28T23:00:00.000-08:002008-11-28T23:00:00.000-08:00Charlie,I've heard all the claims that the mysteri...Charlie,<BR/><BR/>I've heard all the claims that the mysterious, yet-to-be revealed new assignment plan will provide middle school feeder patterns for each elementary school reference area. I certainly hope so.North End Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781046556751463879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-44810797474884019922008-11-28T22:50:00.000-08:002008-11-28T22:50:00.000-08:00Tamara,The current reference area for Thornton Cre...Tamara,<BR/>The current reference area for Thornton Creek (at Decatur) is both the north and northeast clusters. See their website:<BR/>http://www.seattleschools.org/schools/ae2/choose.html<BR/><BR/>According to the preliminary recommendations submitted on Nov. 25th (p. 24-27), the proposed Thornton Creek K-8 at Jane Addams will also draw from the north and northeast clusters.North End Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781046556751463879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-16791211621715787232008-11-28T22:37:00.000-08:002008-11-28T22:37:00.000-08:00North end mom, I do not have capacity numbers, but...North end mom, I do not have capacity numbers, but I know there are many north end families at Kellog. It is located at 25th ave NE @ 160th street, so for many of us it is just as close to us as Eckstein is, and much closer than Hamilton.<BR/><BR/>I have posted this before, but I will mention it again. Kellogg test scores are very high, they are competitive with Eckstein. They are much smaller at 690 students, but are a thriving, comprehensive, traditional middle school. The offer self select honors classes in science, math, english and social studies. No tests to get honors classes, and no waitlist. Any kid that wants the challenge get it. They have a great sports program, very strong band program, a full array of electives, and after school offerings. And, get this, every kid gets an ibook laptop. They have won the national technology school of distinction award several years running. I can't say enough great stuff about the school!<BR/><BR/>The only drawbacks are that Shoreline middle schools are 7 and 8 grade only. So, for kids coming out of seattle elementary they would have to go to a shoreline elementary for one year, or private, or Hamilton or ???? The only other drawback is no bus service to Seattle, but if we had enough families we could probably request bus service. It might be worth it to them, after all they are getting the state funding that follows every student enrolled their no matter where they live.<BR/><BR/>Tamara - Thornton Creek is and always has been a two cluster draw school (n and ne). I just double checked their website to make sure nothing has changed and it hasn't. I would imagine since the n cluster has no alt school now, the district will continue the two cluster draw even with the new assignment plan, which doesn't help the over crowding in the NE at all, but is more equitable for families seeking an alt school.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68098272940390660442008-11-28T21:23:00.000-08:002008-11-28T21:23:00.000-08:00Just a quick clarification to ad hoc and others --...Just a quick clarification to ad hoc and others -- Thornton Creek is a NE cluster option only -- not a north and northeast one.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14938901746304066151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14004881267811235732008-11-28T21:13:00.000-08:002008-11-28T21:13:00.000-08:00When the District changes the student assignment p...When the District changes the student assignment plan, each middle school will have its own reference area. The reference area for Eckstein will have to start in the northeast corner of the district and move south and west from there. When that happens, it will be students living <I>south</I> of 110th who won't be able to get in to Eckstein.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-37375562641929614132008-11-28T19:27:00.000-08:002008-11-28T19:27:00.000-08:00adhoc,Do you have capacity numbers for the closest...adhoc,<BR/><BR/>Do you have capacity numbers for the closest Shoreline elementary schools and middle school (Kellog). Do they truly have the capacity and the desire to take on more N. Seattle families?<BR/><BR/>Many of us in the N. end were holding out hope that we were FINALLY going to see the middle school crisis resolved by these recommendations, but if our needs are once again ignored, I'm sure there will be a MASS exodus!North End Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781046556751463879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85797850178163885602008-11-28T16:00:00.000-08:002008-11-28T16:00:00.000-08:00Just to add to my above post, if Jane Adams were t...Just to add to my above post, if Jane Adams were to house only the Thorton Creek middle school and the k-8 autism program, it would be large enough to be a comprehensive middle school and offer all of the electives, sports, band, some advanced classes, and after school programs. It could still follow the Harvard based, ELOB pedagogy that is the guiding principal of Thorton Creek, but it would be large enough to be comprehensive. It could truly be a gem, not to mention a savior for the north end!!!anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57072469391319620542008-11-28T15:52:00.000-08:002008-11-28T15:52:00.000-08:00As a north Seattle family who has an 8th grade son...As a north Seattle family who has an 8th grade son attending a nearby Shoreline middle school, I can tell you that Kellogg, our Shoreline school is much more convenient than Hamilton would be for us. It is much closer to our home, and it is much higher performing than Hamilton. It is a fabulous school, and we are so grateful to have had this option, when we couldn't get our son into Eckstein (we live 1.6 miles away from Eckstein).<BR/><BR/>We are not alone. There are many other NE Seattle families that choose Shoreline elementary and middle schools. Shoreline elementary schools are much higher performing than than the far north elementary schools in N Seattle (Olympic Hills, Northgate, and even John Rogers). And as for middle school, Kellogg is every bit as strong as Eckstein, and is half the size at 690 kids. It is a very attractive option.<BR/><BR/>Shoreline has the space to accomodate the north Seattle kids and welcome them with open arms. In fact all you have to do is walk into the school, fill out the out of district form, and you walk out enrolled. It's that easy. If SPS doesn't provide N Seattle families with some attractive options, the exodus to Shoreline will continue.<BR/><BR/>Pinehurst should remain open, whether it houses the AS1 program or not. I actually think AS1 does a good job of serving the population that they do. Most of the families that choose AS1 will not filter into other schools easily, there is a reason they do not mainstream. They really need what they have in AS1. That said, if Pinehurst were to be repurposed why couldn't it house the elementary portion of Thornton Creek (it's a n and ne cluster draw school). Then Jane Adams could be the Thorton Creek Middle school and k-8 autism program?? Would that attract families?? We must have some option to relieve the pressure and overcrowding at Eckstein and the current plan just doesn't address that at all. <BR/><BR/>Any other ideas for middle school over crowding in NE Seattle????anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.com