tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post638425563718131054..comments2021-07-30T18:08:37.133-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: School Board Member takes 10th Grade Reading/Math TestsMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68148172951831584632015-02-17T08:32:00.871-08:002015-02-17T08:32:00.871-08:00@!!!
Love to meet with you if you want tips on ho...@!!!<br /><br />Love to meet with you if you want tips on how to teach standard algorithms (procedural math) with meaning and understanding. I can show you the progression of bar modeling to solve algebra problems without the use of x.<br /><br />Contact me at:<br />Linh-Co.Nguyen@seattlecolleges.eduLinh-Conoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87941495578934015012015-02-17T02:53:15.200-08:002015-02-17T02:53:15.200-08:00@Linh-Co
I spent the day going over my kids math w...@Linh-Co<br />I spent the day going over my kids math workbooks and homework. We had a math trainer in last week talking about procedural as opposed to conceptual math. I am beginning to understand.<br /><br />When the adoption was being considered, I purchased online a couple of Jump Math books. I took another look at them today. <br /><br />Both Jump and MIF(which is very confusing at times) concentrate on pure numbers and number relationships. I've always spent a lot of time on word problems and "explain your thinking" activities. Jump and MIF are mostly procedural - just numbers. Truthfully, my own ability to see number relationships is getting sharper. My math (arithmetic) has always been fast and facile. But I totally stink at algebra. Do you think my algebra deficiency might improve with the new math? :)<br /><br />I always appreciate your postings on math. <br /><br />!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1174454439663815602015-02-16T16:27:36.911-08:002015-02-16T16:27:36.911-08:00To be fair, the change to no math EOC in middle sc...To be fair, the change to no math EOC in middle school was not known or announced until after the start of this school year. Schools have used the EOC as a condition for math placement when students homeschool for math and then want to re-enroll with an accelerated placement. It was a questionable use of the EOC test, and yes, results weren't available to schools until just before school started, but that didn't prevent schools from doing it. It affects a very small group of students. My guess is the students homeschooling for math and working above grade level did just fine on the EOCs.<br /><br />APAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83435273665741133742015-02-16T13:46:12.556-08:002015-02-16T13:46:12.556-08:00Lihn-co, what part of "it's going away&q...Lihn-co, what part of "it's going away" are you failing to understand? The EOC for math is obsolete.... except that it's a high school graduation requirement for students in class 2018 and older. No. It isn't used as a placement for high school. High schools don't even have the EOC or MSP results by the time school starts in fall. Plenty of students enroll in geometry after failing the Algebra EOC. It isn't possible to know that before you enroll. Middle schools like McClure who have required Algebra, have also gotten excellent EOC results. In high schools you can sign up for any math you want.<br /><br />TAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9506616786533412022015-02-16T12:57:10.841-08:002015-02-16T12:57:10.841-08:00Some students are partially homeschooled in math a...Some students are partially homeschooled in math and parents have used the EOCs as a way to re-enter these kids in the next course. <br /><br />There are some Seattle middle schools that teach "algebra" to all 8th graders at grade level. Some of them can't pass the EOC.Linh-Conoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77021810753298682862015-02-16T12:39:25.171-08:002015-02-16T12:39:25.171-08:00Linh-Co, as far as state policy goes, the EOCs in ...Linh-Co, as far as state policy goes, the EOCs in math are going away and there will not be replacements other than the comprehensive high school math SBAC assessments (which are not end-of-course).<br /><br />As for high school placement policy in SPS, I can't speak to that. However, why would any criteria at all be needed to place a 6th grade student taking Algebra into the next math sequence? In other words, why wouldn't this student just take Geometry in 7th grade?<br /><br />If SPS is using the math EOCs for placement purposes currently, they're going to need to modify the policy.<br /><br />--- swkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54916297634344231172015-02-16T12:01:07.607-08:002015-02-16T12:01:07.607-08:00@ !!!
I'm not too sure what you are referrin...@ !!! <br /><br />I'm not too sure what you are referring to as far as conceptual understanding. In teaching kids sums of 5, number bonds are used in K-2 Math In Focus to show the sums can be made up with 0 & 5, 1 & 4, 2 & 3, 4 & 1 , etc. This is a big idea in primary grades to know numbers can be composed and decomposed into different parts. You are encouraged to show this with unifix cubes for the younger grades. They also teach adding as counting forward on a number line while subtraction as counting backward.<br /><br />In terms of teaching mental math, it's very difficult to teach kids if 4+5=9, then 64+5=69 or 5+6=11 then 75+6=81 if they don't know their single digit addition facts.<br /><br />I'll have to say my favorite pick from the choices of textbooks was JUMP math and not MIF, but MIF was probably the best of the final 3. Also, I would not consider Envision a "thinking math" curriculum. I don't even know what that means.Linh-Conoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-61283395393689799252015-02-16T11:19:06.198-08:002015-02-16T11:19:06.198-08:00I thought the EOC, teacher recommendation, and cou...I thought the EOC, teacher recommendation, and course title was used for high school math placement. Would it be fair for the 6th grade student currently taking algebra to wait until 9th grade to take the algebra 1 EOC test or its replacement in high school? Linh-Conoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56806837300301328182015-02-15T16:03:15.456-08:002015-02-15T16:03:15.456-08:00I meant to say that "There is no mechanism un...I meant to say that "There is no mechanism under which..."<br /><br />--- swkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15692282048803471292015-02-15T16:01:46.672-08:002015-02-15T16:01:46.672-08:003rd Perspective, you are correct that it is distri...3rd Perspective, you are correct that it is districts/schools that technically administer the MSP, HSPE, EOCs, and soon the SBAC assessments. However, districts and schools CANNOT simply "elect to administer EOCs."<br /><br />It is the "state" that has a contract with vendors to develop, distribute, and score the state assessments mentioned above. The state pays the vendors for these assessments. The districts do not have individual contracts under which these assessments are administered like they do with NWEA to administer the MAP, etc.<br /><br />So, no, schools cannot simply elect to administer the EOCs. There is mechanism under which a school or district can purchase these the EOCs or any other state assessment. Private schools can contract individually with the vendors but the state does not allow public districts and schools to do so.<br /><br />Therefore, there will be no EOCs administered at the middle schools.<br /><br />--- swkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14084212647336198562015-02-15T16:01:15.830-08:002015-02-15T16:01:15.830-08:00Have schools announced test dates yet? The distric...Have schools announced test dates yet? The district info has a testing window of Mar 9 - May 29. Since they are computer based, will they have to stagger testing (different grade band each week?)? We haven't received info from our school.<br /><br />wonderingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47109920145667528042015-02-15T14:16:16.809-08:002015-02-15T14:16:16.809-08:00As one article points out, the largest amount of t...As one article points out, the largest amount of testing seems to come from districts, not states. Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36639526912015899612015-02-15T12:56:45.646-08:002015-02-15T12:56:45.646-08:00Another Perspective - THe "state" doesn&...Another Perspective - THe "state" doesn't administer EOCs or SBACs or anything else. Your school does. Yes. Your school can elect to administer EOCs. (They could also test your kid with the MAP, or any other obsolete test they wanted to give.) But what would be the reason? It won't count for anything. Do you really just want your kid tested some more? Are you really so worried that your middle schooler didn't learn anything in Algebra or Geo? If so, they can re-enroll in the course in high school. It's really pretty dang simple.<br /><br />3rd PerspectiveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36469341036961122402015-02-15T11:59:44.670-08:002015-02-15T11:59:44.670-08:00That was very helpful. Thanks.
!!!That was very helpful. Thanks. <br /><br />!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-92133475223742441552015-02-15T11:51:35.754-08:002015-02-15T11:51:35.754-08:00MIF promo materials discussing the CPA (concrete-p...MIF promo materials discussing the CPA (concrete-pictorial-abstract) approach:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.hmhco.com/~/media/sites/home/education/global/pdf/white-papers/mathematics/elementary/math-in-focus/mif_underpinning_concept_lr.pdf?la=en" rel="nofollow">Math in Focus: The Underpinning Concept</a><br /><br />-another perspectiveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41652989108207244102015-02-15T11:19:56.731-08:002015-02-15T11:19:56.731-08:00I thought the basis of MIF was a concrete - picto...I thought the basis of MIF was a concrete - pictorial - abstract progression in the coverage of concepts. A comparison of Envision vs MIF would be interesting, but being the first year of SBAC testing and the first year many teachers have taught MIF, comparisons may be hard to make. Tests will also assume prior years' standards have been covered, even though this is the first year of CCSS for SPS. It all makes for an interesting (and challenging) year.<br /><br />Have you looked at the sample test items linked above? They would give one a good idea of what will be expected. Grade 3 math sample:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.hawaiipublicschools.org/DOE%20Forms/Testing/MathGrade3SampleItems.pdf" rel="nofollow">Math Grade 3 SBAC</a><br /><br />-another perspectiveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80629665150288918922015-02-15T11:09:33.643-08:002015-02-15T11:09:33.643-08:00I'll retire my thoughts after one more contrib...I'll retire my thoughts after one more contribution: I've read that memory creates the gap between the highest achievers and the rest of us. Effort, of course. But given less-to-no effort, it is memory. Procedural math relies on memory over understanding. So our high kids will be just fine. I'm not so sure about the rest. I've always been a concrete/conceptual learner myself. Even now. God bless those kids who are like me. <br /><br />!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18995505416948238002015-02-15T10:41:18.312-08:002015-02-15T10:41:18.312-08:00I'm asking more questions than providing answe...I'm asking more questions than providing answers. When I say "different" learners I'm talking concrete vs. abstract. Primary learners are concrete learners. MIF offers bins of manipulatives but doesn't really emphasize them in the teaching. It is really procedural at first and second. That's my concern. <br /><br />My perfect math world keeps concrete learners in manipulative and conceptually based math. As they develope into more abstract thinkers - about 7-8 yrs of age - I would move them into procedural math but keeping concrete and conceptual heartily in the mix. <br /><br />I guess that's the debate. I'm still wondering if the focus on procedure is matched in the assessments coming up. MAP for all grades is my main concern. <br /><br />Finally, it will be interesting to see if there can be any comparison between the Envision schools and the MIF schools of test scores.<br /><br />@Tired of the debate. So, don't engage. I never tire of reading or discussing (over debating) educational ideas and opinions. That's why I read this blog.<br /><br />As a teacher, I'm making a big shift in my teaching and I want as much info as I can get on what works. I've had phenomenal success with EDM and Terc but that's early primary. <br /><br />!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-3165577399706407882015-02-15T09:34:02.027-08:002015-02-15T09:34:02.027-08:00I don't think middle school students can take ...I don't think middle school students can take the Algebra or Geometry EOCs this year, even if they wanted to. The state will not be administering the EOCs to middle school students. <br /><br />-another perspectiveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9643105208276137492015-02-15T09:09:13.590-08:002015-02-15T09:09:13.590-08:00There is no longer going to be any math EOCs that ...There is no longer going to be any math EOCs that count for graduation for current middle schoolers. So, your kid <i>could</i> take them. They simply don't count for graduation, as they are obsolete. Why would you want them to take the EOC? All students, including accelerated students, will take the SBACs in high school which, unlike the EOCs, cover more than one year. It didn't work for the WASL. Remember, students flunked that in droves which is shy we have an EOC. Hard to see it working again.<br /><br />3rd Perspective Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-16259167071567048952015-02-15T08:32:53.786-08:002015-02-15T08:32:53.786-08:00The Oklahoma State Education Department has recent...The Oklahoma State Education Department has recently been granted a federal waiver so students won't need to be double tested in math. For this year, Oklahoma students taking end of course exams in Algebra 1, Geometry, or Algebra 2 need not take the grade level assessments in math. <br /><br />Not so in Washington State. Middle school students will take the grade level tests, but won't be given the end of course exams in middle school. Middle school students taking Algebra 1, Geometry, or Algebra 2, will have no standardized test to gage their performance in the course. <br /><br />If students are accelerated in math, shouldn't the assessment be aligned with the grade level math they are taking? You'd think...but no. Shouldn't the teacher be assessed based on the math material they have taught students that year? You'd think...but this isn't the case for students taking math one or two (or three) years ahead of other students. Is it no wonder some parents opt out? We don't opt out because review is review and it's all practice for taking standardized tests for when they actually count.<br /><br />-another perspectiveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71036852446501992692015-02-15T07:35:11.803-08:002015-02-15T07:35:11.803-08:00Lynn only cares about one standardized test:the ap...Lynn only cares about one standardized test:the app entry then exclusion test. After that, no she doesn't care. Right. One way to do everything. That's awesome.<br /><br />ReaderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59664098609190001072015-02-14T22:30:56.370-08:002015-02-14T22:30:56.370-08:00When you say multiple ways of learning and remembe...When you say multiple ways of learning and remembering are you referring to visual, auditory and kinesthetic learning styles or something else?<br /><br />When I said we'd purchased a set of textbooks - I meant the district. The district has purchased what I assume is a complete math curriculum. By the end of elementary school, I expect that our students will have learned what they need to know before middle school. <br /><br />If my child does well when tested on the math covered in the classroom, I'll be happy. I don't care at all about SBAC scores. My kids won't be taking that test.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77193778988418299462015-02-14T21:37:00.948-08:002015-02-14T21:37:00.948-08:00Finally, without conceptual understanding, many ch...<i>Finally, without conceptual understanding, many children cannot recognize when they make mistakes.</i><br /><br />Doesn't conceptual understanding come from lots of practice? Conceptual understanding and procedural fluency go hand in hand.<br /><br />...A Bogus Dichotomy in Mathematics Education by H. Wu<br /><br />https://math.berkeley.edu/~wu/wu1999.pdf<br /><br />-tired debateAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83728830883958498682015-02-14T20:25:58.526-08:002015-02-14T20:25:58.526-08:00Multiple strategies accommodate multiple ways of l...Multiple strategies accommodate multiple ways of learning and remembering. Also, mental math is increased for many children when concrete conceptual strategies are present. Finally, without conceptual understanding, many children cannot recognize when they make mistakes. <br /><br />So, your children learn from any textbook you have on the shelf. Fine. Does that means all kids do?<br /><br />!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com