tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post6554367385724436929..comments2024-03-28T23:38:22.511-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Too Much Emphasis on Sports in our Schools?Melissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27197186752731684322013-09-24T16:35:35.621-07:002013-09-24T16:35:35.621-07:00"First you go on and on about how other count..."First you go on and on about how other countries really don't provide better educations." <br /><br />When did I say that? I certainly said other countries have very different models that I might not like (see China) but they get results. I've done at least two threads on how great Finland is. So tell me where I said what you say I did.<br /><br />Again, and for the last time, I have said NOTHING about "sucking" over sports. I posted a well-written article that posited some interesting thoughts and put it out for discussion. <br /><br />So club sports are not as good as school sports and you liken the consideration of that to me saying "kuds" should go to Kumon instead of school? Big leap there.<br /><br />Note: we DO have Title Nine.<br /><br />I love, love, love Ultimate and it is NOT the traditional high-cost sport that many others are. It is pretty much the exception to the rule (and again, I've written about Ultimate numerous times).<br /><br />I think this is all for comments because clearly there is no room for discussion.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75863640340845665462013-09-24T16:32:02.873-07:002013-09-24T16:32:02.873-07:00Reader,
But it's not really clear that sports...Reader,<br /><br />But it's not really clear that sports are important. I don't think they are. I'd like to get schools out of all sports. Run them through community centers. <br /><br />Spend our education dollars on classroom learning during school hours. We are still waiting for a new math curriculum because we can't afford it.<br /><br />LynnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23392200014783424142013-09-24T16:28:04.570-07:002013-09-24T16:28:04.570-07:00All sports are by definition competitive and good-...All sports are by definition competitive and good-for-the body. I also think SPS does a pretty good job of promoting non-traditional and inclusive sports. If you want to see proof of these two points go watch a middle school coed ultimate frisbee match.<br /><br />- Sounders FCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-67725269507046773332013-09-24T16:22:41.644-07:002013-09-24T16:22:41.644-07:00Melissa, you are incredible. First you go on and...Melissa, you are incredible. First you go on and on about how other countries really don't provide better educations. Then, lo and behold, we really do suck after all.... because of sports. Then, we find out why. Your kids got cut. It is really clear that sports are important and we should make it possible for everybody to play. The idea that kuds should just find other venues is equally bad. We could just as easily say that students get their math from Kumon or Khan Academy. I agree though, we shouldn't spend tons of money on sports that few students play, and that don't include many students. We do need to be smart about it. We need something like Title 9, except that all students should benefit.<br /><br />ReaderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87185799902640505862013-09-24T16:20:45.460-07:002013-09-24T16:20:45.460-07:00WSDWG, that's quite the tangent you went off o...WSDWG, that's quite the tangent you went off on. <br /><br />Of course, Wall Street should pay. That's yet another area where we as Americans look the other way.<br /><br />It's not a tug-of-war - it was just a jumping off place for a discussion. <br /><br />And no school pride without sports, eh? <br /><br />(I just tweeted that if I want to get blasted just start a discussion on gifted education or sports. Very touchy subjects.)Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87823118920294619582013-09-24T16:16:02.589-07:002013-09-24T16:16:02.589-07:00@reader: It had to happen. I agree with you 100%....@reader: It had to happen. I agree with you 100%. <br /><br />@MW: When I was in school it was the Japanese taking over and besting us in every way. Then Europe (again) for awhile. And let's not forget the Russians and their proxies. Now it's China and India, and small European countries, once again, we're supposedly losing everything too. <br /><br />While we peasants chase a new rabbit every decade, Wall Street crooks and the 1% rob us all blind and steal away our children's futures. <br /><br />Instead of chasing a new boogeyman like school sports, hows about we jail some Wall Street Crooks, drain the DC swamp of its bribes and repeal some ridiculous trade agreements that undermine US workers while exploiting those elsewhere for the almighty green Jesus! <br /><br />We can trim, cut and eliminate down to our marrow, and in 50 years, our kids will be doing the same damn thing, while still saluting the flag every morning. <br /><br />Sports, or no Sports should not even concern us compared to the mortgaging of our children's futures by student loan debt, credit default swaps (How in the hell were those ever legal? Ever?), CDO's (trust me, they were toxic as hell), etc., etc. <br /><br />Sorry, it's been a long day, but I don't want to play tug of war with you over the last piece of bread while the 1%'s riches are surging to never before seen heights. <br /><br />And yes, I was a HS athlete, and yes, it had a lot to do with maintaining my interest and feeling a part of the social scene in school. While I suppose I could have done Math Olympics instead, it wouldn't have compared to what it was. And I still go to my old HS games where I see friends of 30 years ago. If they didn't happen, neither would that. I think they are good for all kids, even those sitting in the stands. School pride is a good thing. WSDWG<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11161537638608531742013-09-24T15:43:02.276-07:002013-09-24T15:43:02.276-07:00I only put up my experience AFTER others reference...I only put up my experience AFTER others referenced Seattle Schools. Not in my original post.<br /><br />I absolutely believe there is value in sports in school - I just think as Americans we go overboard with it.<br /><br />No, I have no problem with disagreement. I'm just surprised to find no discussion about what other countries are doing (or not doing) on this subject. <br /><br />That was the discussion I was looking for but apparently not. <br /><br />Magua, that would be interesting to find out. How much does the district spend on sports? How much does each high school sports booster group raise? How many students don't participate because of costs (I've heard to be a cheerleader it's a huge amount of money to spend/raise.) <br /><br />But I'm thinking the status quo on this subject seems to be the norm. Okay. It's just a thread on an interesting article.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29380895833584261832013-09-24T15:41:39.901-07:002013-09-24T15:41:39.901-07:00I hope that when the difficult decisions about res...I hope that when the difficult decisions about resource allocation mentioned in the strategic plan are made - cutting expenditures on after school sports is considered. Too much money per involved student for the benefit received. <br /><br />Which north end or West Seattle schools have sports fields we could build on?<br /><br />Lynn<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8980654467881607632013-09-24T15:27:30.834-07:002013-09-24T15:27:30.834-07:00I see the value of students participating in sport...I see the value of students participating in sports. <br /><br />I also think that educators in public districts are obliged to do a cost/benefit analysis for their students when considering if/how many sports to offer. Public districts should be considering the total cost (including less apparent costs like hiring a sub if a teacher/coach has to travel with the team), and what percentage of the student body is participating in the school's athletic offerings. There isn't enough money not to look at every dollar a school spends - and in the case of something like football (or theater, if you'd prefer), if there is a disproportionate amount of spending on an activity that a small percentage of students participate in. Maguahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12824779113635913385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72747360417720804522013-09-24T15:14:20.274-07:002013-09-24T15:14:20.274-07:00I am not missing the point. I just think you are ...I am not missing the point. I just think you are wrong about the value of sports in high school.<br /><br />SPS MOmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14464663897180655762013-09-24T14:59:32.797-07:002013-09-24T14:59:32.797-07:00I think it's important to distinguish between ...I think it's important to distinguish between sports-as-activity-good-for-the-body and competitive-sports-between-schools. The NYT article cited by SOundersFC focused on the former. The Atlantic article discusses the latter.<br /><br />It strikes me that there could be a lot more sports/activity in schools, and much less organized, inter-school competitive sports. In that regard, it will be interesting to hear how the Spelman College experiment pans out. They ended their competitive sports program entirely, and are now spending significant funds to promote physical activity and wellness for their entire student population. To me, that is the essence of what sports-in-school should be about.RosieReaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16509678140588070623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83976890365941576312013-09-24T14:57:15.329-07:002013-09-24T14:57:15.329-07:00I think it's a good thing for students to be d...I think it's a good thing for students to be doing something active. However, the interschool competitive sports, where maybe a couple of dozen students play and the rest watch, and that dominate the budget is not such a good thing. It only provides exercise for the participants, and little money or encouragement is left over, so it fuels the obesity epidemic among the student body as a whole. I'd like to see noncompetitive sports that the students can do their whole lives have as much priority as football or basketball.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16260807460417787614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42145978423465639152013-09-24T14:50:08.630-07:002013-09-24T14:50:08.630-07:00A large majority of Hale students participate in s...A large majority of Hale students participate in sports. It isn't just sports though, it is also clubs. It is sports and clubs which engage the kids and keep them interested in school. Even this town in Texas has added sports back. Just not football because of the expense.<br /><br />HPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-12525524591701939382013-09-24T14:42:57.369-07:002013-09-24T14:42:57.369-07:00Melissa,
I don't think people are missing th...Melissa, <br /><br />I don't think people are missing the point. They just don't agree with you. There is a difference. You seem to be taking your own family's experience as the correct view, and not looking further. With all due respect, this is what you (rightly) dislike when other parents do this. There are valid points on both sides of the sports in school argument. Try to be a little more open minded.<br />-Be fairAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72422636054412977202013-09-24T14:28:02.038-07:002013-09-24T14:28:02.038-07:00I believe that most of you are missing the point -...I believe that most of you are missing the point - most students are NOT in sports. Sports costs schools a lot of money (and clearly from the article, they are sacrificing academics for sports). <br /><br />Do you not believe this is true for SPS? You have zero doubts about this route even as we don't see a single other first-world country doing this? <br /><br />Just asking. (Also, one son remained an athlete, just not at his school. Again, you don't have to have sports at school, to have a child in a sport.)Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-26686037189923435932013-09-24T14:20:50.407-07:002013-09-24T14:20:50.407-07:00I agree with reader that sports should be more ava...I agree with reader that sports should be more available in schools not less. Here is a recent quote and link from NYTimes:<br /><br />"Children who are physically fit absorb and retain new information more effectively than children who are out of shape, a new study finds, raising timely questions about the wisdom of slashing physical education programs at schools."<br /><br />http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/18/how-physical-fitness-may-promote-school-success/?_r=0<br /><br />- Sounders FCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-26326529141436741632013-09-24T14:07:23.308-07:002013-09-24T14:07:23.308-07:00Sports is what gets my kid out of bed and to schoo...Sports is what gets my kid out of bed and to school each day. For our family it is a godsend.<br /><br />Sorry your kid did not have the same experience - but I suspect sports wasn't the "thing" that kept him engaged and something he just wanted to give a try. And good for him! There are lessons to be learned in all experiences - good and bad.<br /><br />SPS MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70146507646983764132013-09-24T13:31:19.071-07:002013-09-24T13:31:19.071-07:00HP - the article addressees the oft-repeated mantr...HP - the article addressees the oft-repeated mantra that sports keeps students engaged. It sounds like common sense. But there's no real evidence one way or the other that it actually does. <br /> <br /><br />RosieReaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16509678140588070623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7614153919729043532013-09-24T13:29:34.624-07:002013-09-24T13:29:34.624-07:00Lakeside GREATLY values their sports teams and spo...Lakeside GREATLY values their sports teams and sports participation. <a href="http://www.lakesideschool.org/athletics/director" rel="nofollow">Read</a> about it. Students are encouraged to participate in as many sports as possible. And, a really wide array of sports is available and professionally coached by 100 coaches. Not to mention incredible facilities. 80% of the students play sports. This is a great thing about private schools. Sports are offered to a bigger percentage of the students, and it's an expected educational opportunity. It wouldn't be an expectation if there were no benefit. Posts like this one, really show little understanding of the issue nor what students are missing when the opportunity is denied. Competitive sports should be more available, and to more students in public schools. Not less available.<br /><br />-readerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19351688807372834202013-09-24T13:14:39.004-07:002013-09-24T13:14:39.004-07:00Like most other Americans, I can rattle off the ma...<i> Like most other Americans, I can rattle off the many benefits of high-school sports: exercise, lessons in sportsmanship and perseverance, school spirit, and just plain fun. All of those things matter,</i><br /><br />So what is the point of school? It's only recently that passing a whole string of tests was the main idea of school. Really. The goal is producing good citizens, capable of being independent, going to work, and raising their own families. Sports teaches so many values related to that primary goal. Given that we have an obesity epidemic, it's hard to understand anybody who thinks we should just punt sports. Are you ever really going to use calculus? Ever? Or even Algebra 2? But think of all the things sports teach: fitness, body awareness, collaboration, perseverance, punctuality, attitude, respect, team work, collaboration, planning. All the things that we actually really value. And all the things that help students be successful in many other areas of their lives, including in their academics.<br /><br />Also not mentioned is that students playing sports for 2 hours after school are NOT doing drugs, drinking, vandalizing property, having sex, or engaging in many other poor choices for those 2 hours. Hopefully, remembering the team will keep them from those activities even when the practice is over.<br /><br />Funny thing though. You never hear this sort of whining over music programs, or theater. All the same things against sports could be said for them too.<br /><br />-readerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85566605739439211532013-09-24T13:05:48.248-07:002013-09-24T13:05:48.248-07:00ZB, you said something important - how do sports i...ZB, you said something important - how do sports influence the environment for ALL students? That is a big and worthy question. Is there anything else that the money and time spent on sports could be used for to benefit more (or all) students? <br /><br />One of my son (at one high school) tried out for soccer. There were about 85 boys and he said no numbers were assigned but oddly, the coaches seemed to know some of the boys. That was because they also coached club soccer, knew them and picked them. (My son did eventually make the team but was disillusioned by the process.) <br /><br />The other son's experience was at Hale where yes, most sports are no cut. You have to balance that out, though. No cut, also usually means no play if you are not top tier. It means going to practice, suiting up and never having a minute of playing time. I'm not sure it that much better (and my son had a disability which made feel worse to him). <br /><br />The fact that some schools don't have football fields merely means the district didn't have the land. If they had the land, they would have their own fields (and that's why Memorial Stadium is so vital to the district has the home field for several high schools). <br /><br />"Kids that are involved in the life of the school generally stay on to graduate."<br /><br />And is the only "life" at Hale sports? No, it's not. So what if there were fewer sports? Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34721195689772515672013-09-24T12:30:24.989-07:002013-09-24T12:30:24.989-07:00The principal at Nathan Hale is always encouraging...The principal at Nathan Hale is always encouraging kids to either join a sports team or a club. Kids that are involved in the life of the school generally stay on to graduate. I have heard that Holy Names requires sports participation.<br /><br />Frankly I think it is how the school approaches it. At Nathan Hale, almost all sports are no cut. I think in Texas it is probably true that there is too much money spent on sports (instant replay on the football score board!) and not enough on actual education. Seattle Schools seem to have a better balance. Roosevelt doesn't even have a football field to play on and instead use Memorial Stadium or Nathan Hale's Stadium.<br /><br />HPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65759798786023789892013-09-24T12:17:15.882-07:002013-09-24T12:17:15.882-07:00I felt like the article was written by someone who...I felt like the article was written by someone who didn't really understand the varied role of sports in different parts of the US and in different schools. I don't know how the problem plays out in rural schools in Texas, but I'd want to know more about the environment here in SPS before leaping onto the bandwagon. <br /><br />How do parents and kids in different HS in Seattle feel about the role that sports plays in the school? <br /><br />I've heard the stories about Garfield and Wroten (which are dreadful). But, how does the sports at Roosevelt, Garfield, Nathan Hale, Ballard, . . . . influence the environment for all the students? (I do know sports don't play a significant rule at Center School). <br /><br />How about at Seattle Prep, Lakeside, Bush, etc.? <br /><br />zbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com