tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post6590307710727164434..comments2024-03-28T23:38:22.511-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Mann Taskforce Members Express Unhappiness at MeetingMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger96125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24894975289429677062013-09-07T10:03:51.130-07:002013-09-07T10:03:51.130-07:00I am ending comments on this thread.
I note tha...I am ending comments on this thread. <br /><br />I note that neither Mr. Garrett or Ms. Ismael answered the question of will the remaining groups leave Mann on the 18th. <br />Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70805964885656081312013-09-07T10:00:16.018-07:002013-09-07T10:00:16.018-07:00">..as a sincere and concerned warning.&qu...">..as a sincere and concerned warning."<br /><br />It's "sincere" to warn people that community members may be hostile to children coming to a school in their area? I think we have very different ideas of sincerity.<br /><br />Since some seem so offended by the words spoken - not by me - and spoken twice by one MEMBER of the taskforce (who also told the Superintendent the district was "destroying" AA children, sure I'll change it.<br /><br />I didn't say she meant violence; I said the language used at the meeting indicates to me no forward motion in the discussion and yes, I believe it will be difficult to get the final groups to leave Mann. I hope I'm proven wrong. <br /><br />It does not change that it happened and that some at the table nodded right along. Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84866570158554417722013-09-07T08:02:25.280-07:002013-09-07T08:02:25.280-07:00CowCrow is right. That "Blood on your hands&q...CowCrow is right. That "Blood on your hands" language is sensational.<br /><br />Please remember that Melissa didn't say it. That was said by a member of the Task Force. Melissa is reporting it. It wasn't even said in a moment of high emotion. The woman told Mr. Banda that he had blood on his hands. Mr. Garret reminded her that Mr. Banda was relatively new to the district, so she corrected herself and told Mr. Banda that he WILL have blood on his hands.<br /><br />She meant the blood of Central Area African-American children whose lives are destroyed through their miseducation. She didn't mean as a threat of violence but in an effort to make Mr. Banda feel guilty.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6853493946704543132013-09-07T02:01:32.883-07:002013-09-07T02:01:32.883-07:00You must not live in the northend cowcrow, you don...You must not live in the northend cowcrow, you dont think Mellissa Fernandez counts? ( she was killed in a driveby outside ballard high school)<br />Or the students who have been beaten by thugs at Golden Gardens ( more than one incident)<br />The 14th st locos gang doesnt mean anything to you?<br />The MS-13's?<br />Your provincialism is showing.<br />Jet City momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14804841958585043967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-16158318397742975942013-09-07T01:58:06.115-07:002013-09-07T01:58:06.115-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Jet City momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14804841958585043967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47400883184060911832013-09-07T01:20:05.030-07:002013-09-07T01:20:05.030-07:00veiled threats could be construed fro the 'hos...veiled threats could be construed fro the 'hostile" quote, but it is also easy to see such a comment as a sincere and concerned warning. parents are fired up in the south end, exactly as intended by the SAP. just like the north has always had, there is now a stable, local base of parents to mobilize. i say bloody good for M4M. I think all this scary people stuff is just that-stuff.<br />now as far as that banner or headline or whatever it's called about Blood on hands.<br />OMG that is very sensational. Rupert Murdoch sensational. speaking of whom, mr murdoch seemed to do quite well with not apparently an exensive vocabulary. he was however quite white from land down under where white criminals, exiled from their own land, subjugated the native dark skinned people, thrust them into poverty and despair where they remain.<br />anyways, Julia is a refreshingly well spoken addition to the conversation, unlike myself. CRT, having never heard of it, was very interesting, if a bit abstract and intellectual for me. The frame idea- i have my frame of an event and you have yours. that and the rejection of many long held beliefs surrounding the civil rights movement. e.g. the white power structure wanted the civil rights to succeed in order to curry favor with 3rd world counties during the clod war.<br />kind of like the power structure today has black man in D.C. doing the job of president and we have mr Banda continuing with gradualism. those who want faster change like the M4M folks are scaring liberal whites. but as Julia's story (another feature of CRT i read on Wikipedia) illustrate, black folk have been waiting a long,long time to get out the hole that slavery put them in and people keep saying try this or its your own fault and all the while people, like most people just want to survive and get what they can for their kids out of the system just like the northend parents want as much as they can get for their kids.<br />i mean, try to be empathetic. imagine you were poor and worried about gang violence, your child's schoolmates going to prison at all, much less at rates of whatever we have here. we northenders worry about cars and kidgrabbers, not prison, gangs and drivebys.<br />Julia on the other hand may appreciate that gender oppression, agism, discrimination and stigma against mentally and physically different people is a common form of oppression among all of us.<br /><br />CowCrowAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17990498393690975722013-09-07T00:58:29.330-07:002013-09-07T00:58:29.330-07:00Parents make the difference.
Not color, not income...Parents make the difference.<br />Not color, not income, not teachers, and certainly not administrators.<br />But its not PC to point out that out, even though kids from Yemen, Senegal & Eritrea are graduating with honors while those whose grandparents lived next door to my mom on Yesler are struggling.<br /><br />What can we do to educate the parents of the importance of their role?<br />Jet City momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14804841958585043967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53021481942868893952013-09-07T00:16:33.958-07:002013-09-07T00:16:33.958-07:00Can Count,
79.7% of our black students (compared ...Can Count,<br /><br />79.7% of our black students (compared to 12.2% of our white students) receive free and reduced price meals. What does that mean for the CogAT?<br /><br /><a href="www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/29/us-poverty-brain-idUSBRE97S10W20130829" rel="nofollow">StudyFindsPovertyAffectsBrainPower</a><br /><br />Don't you think the key to increasing educational success for black students is going to be economic change? It seems to me our discussions would be more productive if we spent some time talking about solutions. If you're enjoying the current conversation though - do go on. <br /><br />Lynn<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17681392508159788932013-09-06T23:15:49.127-07:002013-09-06T23:15:49.127-07:00Ms Ismael, I said nothing about violence in my pos...Ms Ismael, I said nothing about violence in my post. <br /><br />I didn't say anyone at the meeting said that. <br /><br />No one said that and yet I find it troubling that you and Mr. Garrett both bring it up in your comments. What I said is that I believe there is the distinct possibility that the building will not be cleared by the 18th.<br /><br />So let's go over the words that you and Mr. Garrett have introduced into this discussion that no one else did:<br />violence, hostile, guns, terrorist, criminal.<br />The words you two wrote, not mine.<br /><br />When someone says that children in a school might meet with a "hostile" reaction, I do worry. That's not a situation any child should be put into. <br /><br />I tell my readers all the time - words have meaning. <br /><br />I merely asked about the programs in the building and who was running them (since the district does not seem to know since they were not informed how many programs/people were in the building). It's not an unreasonable question.<br /><br />I also took careful and copious notes so do let me know what I misspoke about. I certain added my own take but the basic reporting was solid.<br /><br />The reason Charlie and I did not attend ALL the taskforce meetings is that there was no announcement about forming it, there was no way to apply and no notice of the meetings. So, I would certainly have come to get a better context but, for some reason, it was not publicized. <br /><br />I did hear anger yesterday and some of it was absolutely righteous and no one has said that shouldn't be. <br /><br />But I will gently point at that it is puzzling that those who don't want to be judged are quick to judge others. One woman said, as she looked around the room, something to the effect "you people had things handed to you". She doesn't know everyone in the room or their backgrounds but she made the assumption. (I always find it amusing that people always say I'm white.)<br /><br />Does she know that the Superintendent's father was a migrant worker? He probably had some struggles of his own. I myself grew up right on the Arizona/Mexico border. Those of us who grew up in states with Native Americans and Mexican-Americans know that experience. Is it the same experience that African-Americans have had? No, but trying to understand from our life experience should get a little credit. <br /><br />I'll ask you what I asked Wyking (but he didn't answer):<br /><br />-will Mann be vacated on or by September 18th?<br /><br />Certainly we can meet and talk at some point. <br />Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31338502221811442492013-09-06T22:28:38.253-07:002013-09-06T22:28:38.253-07:00Lynne, lots of people said apartheid in S. Africa...Lynne, lots of people said apartheid in S. Africa wasn't harming blacks there. Lots of people in south said black students shouldn't go to school with white ones because - well, they just weren't ready. They have different needs. Sort like all the things people say now when they support APP apartheid. You know, "it's the cohort" (eg. the white one) Now, it's not because they're black (that wouldn't be cool to say) it's because they're poor and have "low vocabularies". Why do we use tests like CogAT, which produce uneven racial results? Why not find a test which has an unbiased spread of results? Do we really just think white people are a whole lot smarter as indicated by the CogAT? Eg. One entire standard deviation smarter? Continued reliance on tests that are known to produce biased results simply means we believe in white supremacy.<br /><br />Can CountAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35574519792496356362013-09-06T22:16:29.309-07:002013-09-06T22:16:29.309-07:00" The point was that what Wyking refers to as..." The point was that what Wyking refers to as the apartheid at Garfield is not harming Garfield's black students."<br /><br />How would you know that Lynn? Do you know them and their life experience in school? Are you their parent? Ever had a counselor come up to you and say "maybe Cecilia should set her sights lower than an ivy league." Good thing my mom rejected that low bar.<br /><br />Do the tests scores really measure quality of life or how people are treated?<br /><br />Julia, thank you for your eloquence and welcoming invite to Melissa. I bet she will take you up on that. I think that, after the heat of the moment, she would readily rethink her initial impression - and her curious mind would want to find out more.<br /><br />I look forward to hearing more exchange of ideas, preferably ones that do not appear, at least at the surface, as threatening.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22614844961977940942013-09-06T21:46:39.693-07:002013-09-06T21:46:39.693-07:00Our goal, and I take liberty speaking for you as w...Our goal, and I take liberty speaking for you as well Ms. Westbrook, is to feel welcome, a sense of belonging and needed in your community however you may define it. I must take a moment to be perfectly clear: More 4 Mann has never made any attempt to define ourselves as the sole representative of the African-American community. We are not a monolith. African-Americans are as diverse politically, emotionally, professionally, an in every conceivable way within our skin color as whites. That said, we are by no means responsible for the actions or motivations of others, just as you do not represent the entire white sector of Seattle (including those prone to violence). Because of our dedication to the safety of our children, it would be a great disservice to our objectives at More 4 Mann to incite or otherwise condone violence of any sort. By the tone of the post, our interaction with the District looks like a terrorist negotiation! LOL. <br />It may also be noted that there are several items of mis-information, or inaccurate "factual" statements in the post. Let us all be reminded that the views expressed in Ms. Westbrook's blog post are based on a personal narrative and represent merely a snapshot of our ongoing conversations with the District and other stakeholders over the last several months. I would invite Ms. Westbrook for some tea, I'll bring the cupcakes (what's your favorite flavor?), and we can share more accurate information. The door is always open, all you need to do is knock (literally!).<br />Lastly, I personally have ties to NOVA and respect their approach to education. Their program adds immense value to the District. Dr. Mark Perry, NOVA Principal, I consider an educational ally - we do not compete while we all race towards success for all our children. More 4 Mann's position is not one of competition, but rather collaboration. Both NOVA and M4M hold huge pieces to the puzzle; ours is, without apology, laser focused on the successful education of African-American students, or to follow my analogy in a previous post,the drowning ones.<br />I appreciate the forum and opportunity to respond with my own truths.<br />With regards,<br />Julia IsmaelJulia Ismaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77507463387316011632013-09-06T21:43:20.974-07:002013-09-06T21:43:20.974-07:00Everyone, of every ethnic background wants to atte...Everyone, of every ethnic background wants to attend a school with a stable and ongoing record of student success, be it Ballard or Garfield or any other high school. It is the model that is most likely to offer great opportunities and choices.joannanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86063441617351851902013-09-06T21:42:18.990-07:002013-09-06T21:42:18.990-07:00Greetings Beloved Seattle,
I want to thank Ms West...Greetings Beloved Seattle,<br />I want to thank Ms Westbrook for her passion; it is always an honor for me to hear another person's truths. As my truth, I offer the following response, specifically to the perceived threat of violence.<br />Even with a most tormented imagination, I cannot fathom any possible positive outcome when violence is used in the same breath as children. The underlying concerns expressed throughout the post reflects perhaps a deeper ingrained fear rather than actual threat. As far as I understand, our legitimate ongoing relationship with the District has allowed the groups to remain in the building with full knowledge and consent, albeit under temporary terms. We champion this movement in reaction to the violence our black youth face daily in the streets, hopelessness caused by lack of belonging hopelessness often rooted in their educational experience. To imply that we would purposefully put our own children in harms way to achieve our grown up goals is diminishing to our humanity. In short, the blood on the hands references not our threat, but our reality: black children are literally dying and our urgent need is to stop the cycle. If we are unsuccessful, blood will continue to spill. And yes, that is a frightening reality, even more so to us who lose sons and daughters as a result of a broken system.<br />I wrote in an open letter: "Should Nova Alternative School indeed relocate to the Horace Mann building under such strained circumstances, the potential for community building and partnership between the students, staff and teachers with the community would be, at best, strained; at worst, hostile. A move into this neighborhood community marred by disenfranchisement and racial inequity amplified by this disenfranchising process, Nova through no fault of their own, would inevitably not feel the warm welcome THEY TRULY DESERVE." (emphasis mine today). <br />To rephrase in a way that might incite less fear in the reader: The pain in the African-American community, specifically in the Central District is real. Imagine someone fell overboard in the sea. As they struggle in the frigid waters, someone appears on the side of their boat with a lifesaver ring in their hand. Once thrown overboard towards the dying human and floats near to reach, it is quickly tugged back. This is repeated again and again, all the while the person nears death. Imagine if the person in the boat finally decides to not throw the lifesaver, winds the cord, puts the lifesaver on the wall, starts the engine and slowly sails away, waving goodbye with a slight smile. "Sorry, but I tried!" Now, how would the drowning person feel about the one in the boat? What could they do to express those feelings as the boat pulls away? Violently throw water at the boat sailing away into the sunset? Maybe curse? Or is it a wiser use of energy to find a way to survive. Look. I consider More 4 Mann the other boat, the one with "Emergency" written on the side; the boat that is racing towards the dying human. Violence by the drowning human is a ridiculous use of precious energy. Does this make more sense? Storytelling IS a pretty useful tradition (thank you all ancient cultures!). <br />I humbly ask you, beloved Seattle, why is this invoking such an acute state of fear? That we, as black educators, are not qualified? That we are violent? That we are driven solely by anger? That we are criminals? Regardless of the anti-racism models one may have studied (or not), we all understand what it feels like to be painted as something you are not, especially when own colors are beautiful.<br />Julia IsmaelJulia Ismaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39576208260251010752013-09-06T21:32:00.857-07:002013-09-06T21:32:00.857-07:00Can Count,
I don't think you read the comment...Can Count,<br /><br />I don't think you read the comment you are SO excited about. The point was not that APP students improve test scores of Non-APP students. The point was that what Wyking refers to as the apartheid at Garfield is not harming Garfield's black students.<br /><br />LynnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50062681464720609112013-09-06T20:08:00.147-07:002013-09-06T20:08:00.147-07:00Yo CCM!
Ballard black students are doing well. T...Yo CCM!<br /><br />Ballard black students are doing well. The claim was nobody can beat Garfield black students (Numbers made this claim) ... because all the really cool white APP students made them better than they could be otherwise. Really? Really???? We're still making excuses like that? ???? Just so some people can get the segregation they think they deserve?<br /><br />Can CountAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53489920572000029412013-09-06T18:05:42.649-07:002013-09-06T18:05:42.649-07:00Fortunately, CRT doesn't need Sabina to legiti...Fortunately, CRT doesn't need Sabina to legitimize it. It's been legitimized and accepted by the academy, as well as embraced by academic presses and journals. CRT has generated a valid academic discourse. <br /><br />I tend to think of it more as a theoretical framework than an ideology. Ideology might be read by some an a pejorative and dismissive term. Ideology connotes a uncritical worldview or common sense. CRT is not one's common sense, it's a analytic framework...it requires on to think more intentionally and to probe ideologies and structures of power and oppression. <br /><br />I am sympathetic to the idea that it might be anti-white and oppressive. I truly am. Hate is not my thing. In my estimation, CRT is critical of white supremacy as an ideology, practice, and structure. White privilege as well. <br /><br />For me, it's not enough to state that CRT is this or that. I need examples given with enough context to fully appreciate your criticisms or observations. More importantly, Sabina, a bright scholar recognized by the academy, has looked at issues of race in SPS to provide profound insights. This work shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. <br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Juan DiegoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89124659759328888082013-09-06T17:40:03.549-07:002013-09-06T17:40:03.549-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89950121815667113782013-09-06T16:41:42.825-07:002013-09-06T16:41:42.825-07:00Sabina Vaught is a white woman who writes on racis...Sabina Vaught is a white woman who writes on racism and teaches at Tufts. Her mother was the associate dean of undergraduate education at the UW. A dear dear person. <br /><br />So that might nullify your charges of racism as n approach to foreclose discussion. In fact, by using CRT she and others (not me) attempt to open up new horizons in the educational discourse. <br /><br />Sceptical however would like to foreclose conversation by name calling and race baiting. <br /><br />The term "ivory tower" is intriguing when used in discussions about education. <br /><br />Our future educators are trained in the ivory tower and hopefully will draw on their academic knowledge, texts, and journals to enrich the pedagogy. Ivory tower is a dismissive term use to shut down conversation, Skeptical. By the way, which community do you represent? <br />Seattle is a mosaic, and most of us inhabit multiple communities. Including the trolls her lurk in the blogosphere.<br /><br />Juan DiegoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79521200454806005422013-09-06T16:22:15.297-07:002013-09-06T16:22:15.297-07:00And here I thought you two were genuinely humanita...And here I thought you two were genuinely humanitarians, but now I see that's not the case. <br /><br />Pseudonyms are more important than sentiment. <br /><br />Well, I wonder if Melissa will delete this demeaning and hate-filled post: "CRT has no role in finding cooperative solutions, as it does not allow for argument and viewpoints other than its own anti-white subjective narrative.<br /><br />Academic freedom may protect your veiled hate speech but out here in the community we can call out your BS and censor you all we please."<br /><br />Personally, I don't teach CRT. It also turns out that Sabina is a Caucasian woman from Seattle. Her mother was associate dean of undergraduate education at the UW, so that might contradict this malicious statement. Finally, educators are trained in the ivory tower, and my expectation is that they will draw on literature from the academy to enrich their teaching practices. <br /><br />Juan Diego<br />PS-I'd like to recommend a book for you, Malice (Phronesis Series). Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79532072120315597022013-09-06T16:10:13.946-07:002013-09-06T16:10:13.946-07:00And Melissa, I respect your knowledge of policy (a...And Melissa, I respect your knowledge of policy (and the history of disregard of policy). So your commentary in very informed in that respect.<br /><br />Personally, I avoid nearly every taskforce like the plague. I view nearly every one as a fig leaf for central office apparatchiks.<br /><br />That is not to say that I do not welcome bonafide engagement with neighbors, and effective action on their concerns.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72559386535931636322013-09-06T16:06:44.180-07:002013-09-06T16:06:44.180-07:00And again,
NO anonymous comments
You must have a...And again,<br /><br />NO anonymous comments<br /><br />You must have a two-word or shorter name. <br /><br />Or<br /><br />Your comment will be deleted.<br /><br />These are our rules. You can waste your time posting incorrectly or follow them and be part of the discussion.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23869338577637345562013-09-06T16:04:14.141-07:002013-09-06T16:04:14.141-07:00I very clearly said who said what (a few names I c...I very clearly said who said what (a few names I could not discern but I did say what Mr. Garrett and Ms.Ismael said. I did not say the entire group agreed but that there were several people who said similar things was notable.<br /><br />I can vet the process on the Taskforce selection simply because district and board policy was not followed. I don't have any unhappiness with WHO is on the taskforce (and I did not "vet" them at all in my piece) but the process was wrong.<br /><br />As a member of the public, I was allowed to attend the meeting, as an education activist I am able to understand the nuances of the situation and as an education blogger, I wrote about it. That's all.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-12773363332227822982013-09-06T15:58:55.665-07:002013-09-06T15:58:55.665-07:00Mao? Really? That's who we should emulate? Be...Mao? Really? That's who we should emulate? Because 20th century China was such a positive place to live? Wow.pro-NOVA neighbornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43894388096330508912013-09-06T15:58:22.777-07:002013-09-06T15:58:22.777-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com