tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post6662768715667735571..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Times' Front Page Article on Schools' Make-UpMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42361862828092637952008-06-04T15:20:00.000-07:002008-06-04T15:20:00.000-07:00This may be different in the less-dense north end,...This may be different in the less-dense north end, but in the CD, all these schools are within a couple miles of each other. commuting costs are going to be similar to several schools for us. I think that may be true in other places as well. <BR/><BR/>Our "school on the corner" (MLK) was closed. McGilvra and Madrona are both about a mile away, with hills and busy streets. Walking distance for an adult, not for a Kindergardner. [Madrona is just under a mile, so I'd be driving, McGilvra is just over, so we'd get bus service]. TT Minor is a few blocks farther, in a different direction. Lowell and TOPS are both within 2 miles. The only school we're considering that's far away at all is Beacon Hill's immersion program. If there were one closer, I'd be all over it.<BR/><BR/>I feel lucky that all of these very different options exist in in the central district. I don't want to see them go away. I would like to see something at Madrona that would draw families like mine and increase the diversity of that school, and I'd like to see language immersion closer than Beacon Hill (I've posted on this before).<BR/><BR/>The clusters are pretty small. Within a cluster, I'm not sure the gas costs are that big a deal. I also suspect that many people have 2 or 3 schools that are about the same distance away. I'd like to see the same array alternative programs available in each cluster. Remember that these can be co-housed with a general ed program to fill space at a less popular school.<BR/><BR/>As a side note, if the yellow school buses are too expensive, then lets look into organizing walking school busses to get kids to schools that are nearby, but not necessarily their nearest school. I've heard there's one on queen anne.<BR/><BR/>http://www.walkingschoolbus.org/TechyMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04650916001250022778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-839455538275652442008-06-04T07:25:00.000-07:002008-06-04T07:25:00.000-07:00I believe DR MGJ's administration will effect chan...I believe DR MGJ's administration will effect change, or at least begin to effect change, but it will take time. Time my kids just don't have. In the meantime, while Dr MGJ is working on it, and until the change is in place - choice MUST remain. <BR/><BR/>Right now schools have unique focuses and vastly different offerings as a direct result of choice and the need to stay competitive. This has created a system that, at this point, requires choice. Until the system changes, and the field is leveled and all schools offer the same set of core offerings and become homogeneous - choice must remain.<BR/><BR/>But be careful what you wish for. If choice and all of the unique offerings that come with choice are taken away we won't have unique reference schools with Montessori, immersion, aviation focus, large (strong) Spectrum programs, same sex classrooms, uniforms, etc. We may see things like no more pay for k which of course results schools offering only 1/2 day k. We may see things like elementary band eliminated (if all schools can't have a good band no schools should). In other words you may get much less with homogeneous schools than you get now - with choice.<BR/><BR/>On top of all of this a school has to offer a certain amount of diversity. That would include ethnic, socio economic, philosophical and cultural diversity. Until our schools are truly diverse - change must stay in effect.<BR/><BR/>I hope change happens, and as promised all of our schools are good schools. I would love to send my child to the school on the corner with all of his friends, and have his needs met. In fact I would love nothing more.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40866354117337189532008-06-04T05:55:00.000-07:002008-06-04T05:55:00.000-07:00All labels aside, it comes to this: no student sho...All labels aside, it comes to this: no student should be compelled to attend a school that does not meet that student's academic needs. Some of Seattle's schools are - at present - incapable of meeting the needs of a number of students. The District should continue to offer choice and people will continue to take advantage of that choice until those schools expand their range of service.<BR/><BR/>It is all well and good to say that families should just enroll their child at their reference school and the reference school should just serve all of the children who enroll, but the schools can't do it (this comes first), so the families won't do it.<BR/><BR/>It isn't about racism. It isn't about "birds of a feather", it isn't about classism. It is, fundamentally, about whether a school can meet a child's academic needs or not. I don't know anyone who wouldn't prefer it if their neighborhood school were able to meet their child's academic needs.<BR/><BR/>The travel "choice" may only be available to families of means (unless the District provides transportation), but that choice comes with a sacrifice - in time, effort, complexity, and, yes, fuel costs. Just as having a stay-at-home parent is a luxury, it is also a sacrifice. It carries a cost. My family made that choice knowing that it would cut our income in half. Please don't think that was an easy decision or one that hasn't cost us dearly.<BR/><BR/><B>anonyms</B> is, of course, correct. Once a school is perceived as not serving affluent, high performing students, the affluent, high performing students start to disappear. The more they are absent, the less likely they are to come back. Consequently, some schools veer off in one direction, serving affluent high performing students, while other schools veer off in the other direction. We have all seen it happen. There is no doubt about it.<BR/><BR/>So what's to talk about?<BR/><BR/>The District has a new perspective. Whereas the former leadership used to allow schools to decline - putting a higher value on site-based decisionmaking than academic effectiveness - the new administration will not. The District leadership now says: "If your school does not offer a minimal standard of academic effectiveness, we will intervene to help you rise to the Standard. If you cannot rise to the Standard with our help, we will find someone else who can."<BR/><BR/>So now the question comes: will families trust the District to accomplish their goal? Will you trust that the District can and will make every school capable and willing to meet a broad range of academic needs? Can they convince you that your neighborhood school will adequately serve your child academically?<BR/><BR/>There will continue to be some families and students who need something outside the mainstream. So the District will continue to offer alternative schools and specialized programs to address those extraordinary needs. And, I suspect, there will also continue to be some families who will pursue "optimal" instead of "adequate". They will sacrifice the benefits of a neighborhood school to capture some incremental advantage at another location. That's fine, too.<BR/><BR/>Aside from these types of exceptions, however, do you believe that the District leadership can get your neighborhood school (no matter where you live) to adequately serve your child and - the $64,000 question - will you enroll your child in that neighborhood school?<BR/><BR/>If they can, they will reap a number of benefits. They will be able to reduce transportation costs, simplify their assignment plan, increase public satisfaction, increase their enrollment (and resources), increase their political capital (to capture more resources), and, yes, improve the diversity - racial, economic, cultural, and academic - at all schools.<BR/><BR/>But the whole thing keys off the District's ability to get schools to serve a broad range of students, and their ability to convince families that they can.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65026060577479118622008-06-03T21:10:00.001-07:002008-06-03T21:10:00.001-07:00But we're still ignoring the reality of sky-rocket...But we're still ignoring the reality of sky-rocketing gas prices, in favor of the tititllating discussions on "flight" and "I'm not a racist". Gas price is going to have a huge impact on the "xxx-flight" and equity. People can be bused, at ever increasing cost, but there's all kinds of meetings and afterschool activities that will make those drives across town to school incredibily prohibitive because of cost. And that will simply mean, those with less means will have vastly diminished choice.anonymshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06670090189977287310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62329716561833268382008-06-03T21:10:00.000-07:002008-06-03T21:10:00.000-07:00But we're still ignoring the reality of sky-rocket...But we're still ignoring the reality of sky-rocketing gas prices, in favor of the tititllating discussions on "flight" and "I'm not a racist". Gas price is going to have a huge impact on the "xxx-flight" and equity. People can be bused, at ever increasing cost, but there's all kinds of meetings and afterschool activities that will make those drives across town to school incredibily prohibitive because of cost. And that will simply mean, those with less means will have vastly diminished choice.anonymshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06670090189977287310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85762120054988028042008-06-03T20:55:00.000-07:002008-06-03T20:55:00.000-07:00Exactly, Ad Hoc!That's why schools like TOPS, Stev...Exactly, Ad Hoc!<BR/>That's why schools like TOPS, Stevens and Graham Hill work. There is something that attracts and retains the "advantaged" who in turn balance the school and provide "ad hoc" support to the school staff.<BR/><BR/>In my experience, it takes about 1/3+ of the student population to help boost the school. The increased enrollment brings in additional cash from the District and the influx of parents with the time and means to volunteer in additional fundraising for enrichment.<BR/><BR/>At Graham Hill, the PTA wrote grants and raised funds to do a $400,000 playground makeover, turning a two-tiered mess of broken asphalt and weeds into a grass playfield and two play areas. We brought in artists in residence who worked with all of the kids to write a poem about the salmon life cycle. Then they created a variety of wall art in ceramics (marine life theme) to grace the retaining wall of the second level. We added raised planting beds filled with native plants. The kids plant bulbs in the fall for spring tulips. Later we paved an area on the upper level and put in raised beds that the students can plant--usually vegetables.<BR/><BR/>The PTA raised money (about $30,000+ per year--we're not talking big bucks) for field trip buses, assemblies, The Powerful Writers' Program, 4/5th grade camp, classroom supplies and more. They put on all-school parties (Fall Fest, Spring BBQ), arranged for after school programs and enrichment during early dismissal on Conference Week. They organize Scholastic Books sales and distribute 3 books per student per year as part of their RIF program. They staff a WAMU School Banking program. They raise funds to provide scholarships to the Montessori Preschool (fee-based thru kindergarten).<BR/><BR/>I only went on to show what parents who have the time and means can bring to a school. The majority of schools with a high percentage of disadvantaged families just don't get that additional help. I have friends at both Stevens and TOPS and both schools raise huge amounts of cash. The disadvantaged kids that attend there reap the benefits of the fundraising along with the advantaged kids. <BR/><BR/>I never resented the parents who couldn't participate (though I did resent a few of my peers who did not participate). I knew I had a luxury that they may not. There is much reward in seeing a group of kids of all kinds cheer the brand new playground equipment. Yeah...I did it for my kid for sure, but in the end I did it for them all.<BR/><BR/>I agree that watering all the schools down is not the way to go. Those who can will go elsewhere--remember Mercer Island is encouraging out-of-district attendees. The result will be even more schools tipped to the disadvantaged.<BR/><BR/>And, contrary to some beliefs, the school district cannot fix schools without families and communities to help. Since families that are disadvantaged are having a hard enough time just putting food on the table and gas in the tank, they cannot be expected to bear the brunt of that assistance. Hence, the school ends up being disadvantaged as well. <BR/><BR/>The sad reality is that city schools don't have the budgets to provide everything a school needs to truly thrive. As we read in these posts, they can barely support the programs they've got. PTAs make a huge difference--even at the high school level when they are more behind the scenes. Without a significant number of advantaged families, few schools can compete. It is about so much more than passing the WASL.<BR/><BR/>The District needs to find a way to entice families into those schools--neighborhood surveys could be a start. As Charlie asked "Did they ask anyone what they wanted at Rainier Beach?"SolvayGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12709893209963350066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81566072137178332652008-06-03T19:31:00.000-07:002008-06-03T19:31:00.000-07:00Yup anonyms I'd go with "disadvantaged flight". If...Yup anonyms I'd go with "disadvantaged flight". If the majority of students at a school are disadvantaged (low income, homeless, ESL), that school will likely not perform as well (though there are exceptions like Maple and Beacon Hill). Why would anyone who valued education choose to send their kids to a predominantly disadvantaged school that may be under performing, may have more than their share of behavioral issues, and kids who may have a very different attitude toward and value for education than do kids with advantage? Most of those kids will be performing below grade level, which means instruction will be tailored to meet their needs - below grade level - there will be less rigor and opportunity for advanced learning. Not what I want for my child.<BR/><BR/>So, yes, I will be the first to admit it. I would not send my kid to a highly disadvantaged school. I would send them to a diverse school like Stevens, that has a balance of disadvantaged students along with students that have advantage, but not a predominantly disadvantaged school.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-2472598354892645572008-06-03T17:53:00.000-07:002008-06-03T17:53:00.000-07:00ad hoc:you're conflating the "on time" enrollment ...ad hoc:<BR/><BR/>you're conflating the "on time" enrollment issue. It doesn't (all) stem from parents who need to have their hands held. It stems from people having less stable addresses and moving more often. In order to avail yourself of choice in SPS you need to be living at your address in January before the year your child will attend school. If you move during the summer (or if you move during the school year, or just move a lot) on time enrollment is hard for you. <BR/><BR/>Choice has turned into an excuse for accepting inadequate schools in some neighborhoods.zbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205346985598789513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79714781611209397352008-06-03T16:53:00.000-07:002008-06-03T16:53:00.000-07:00Ok. I get it. You don't like the term "white fli...Ok. I get it. You don't like the term "white flight". You're sensitive. And there's some different races in the flight pattern. So, let's call it "disadvantaged flight". It's all the same people, but it doesn't rhyme.anonymshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06670090189977287310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75261446950086464422008-06-03T16:34:00.000-07:002008-06-03T16:34:00.000-07:00White, black, rich and poor families are not fleei...White, black, rich and poor families are not fleeing from TOPS, or Stevens. Rather the opposite - they are flocking to these schools resulting in long wait list every year. You see these very diverse schools are also high performing schools. That tells me that folks of all color and all socio economic backgrounds really just want a high performing schools. Why would ANYONE who valued education settle for under enrolled, under performing, under funded schools full of poverty, lack of rigor, and behavior problems? That is not white flight, or black flight, or middle class flight - it is common senseanonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24563193878942498252008-06-03T16:16:00.000-07:002008-06-03T16:16:00.000-07:00This is not about race, but economics. Consider th...This is not about race, but economics. Consider this: why do so many middle-class Black families choose predominantly Black private schools? It's not to escape Black children in the public schools. It is for the same reason that White, Asian, and Latino families don't choose those schools - to escape the low academic expectations, the dearth of quality programs, and the discipline problems.<BR/><BR/>This isn't about race - it is about poverty.<BR/><BR/>A few years ago I did an analysis of school popularity as measured by first choice for assignment. I found a very high inverse correlation between school popularity and the concentration of poverty at the school. The higher the percentage of FRE students, the less popular the school. The lower the percentage of FRE students, the more popular the school. The correlation was much stronger with poverty than with race.<BR/><BR/>Race doesn't drive choice - economics does. I refuse to regard the two as synonymous.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59746555940327634622008-06-03T14:54:00.000-07:002008-06-03T14:54:00.000-07:00Anonyms says: "It seems to me that most neigborhoo...Anonyms says: <BR/>"It seems to me that most neigborhoods ARE pretty diverse, and could be pretty good, if we didn't have so much "white flight". Let's just call it what it is, and suck up the little bit of pain it takes to say it."<BR/><BR/>It is NOT "white flight" but middle-upper income flight. I live in a very diverse neighborhood and of the people I know, the majority of MIDDLE-UPPER INCOME families of ALL COLORS reject the poor performing, neglected by the District middle and high schools in our neighborhood. <BR/><BR/>We just want the same caliber of course offerings, rigor and quality of staff available to the families who live in the more affluent neighborhoods. Because the District allows us to choose, we choose the best school we can find within a reasonable distance.<BR/><BR/>It is not our fault that the District has neglected certain areas of the city for so long. But it is also not our job to sacrifice our children's education in the name of social justice. Friends and I personally sat down with Cheryl Chow two years ago and told her what we'd like to see at schools Like Rainier Beach. The Southeast Initiative is a step in that direction. It will be up to the District to execute that step in a manner that will prove to families like mine that they really will change the focus of the school and not just create a facade of "quality."<BR/><BR/>I am so tired of hearing that it's all about race. If you must, call it a class difference, but stop trying to paint some of us as racists who don't want to associate with people of color. I moved into South Seattle in 1993, long before housing became unaffordable. I could have bought in the northend, but chose the South because of its diversity.<BR/><BR/>As long as the District allows choice, parents will look for the best fit for their child. Bulldogger said it best in the first post: "This is not a forced migration but rather one driven by people with any spare resources who value education. "SolvayGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12709893209963350066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77877363414513097272008-06-03T14:38:00.000-07:002008-06-03T14:38:00.000-07:00Not just "white flight" but "wealth flight." To Re...Not just "white flight" but "wealth flight." To Redmond. To the northend (tho' even southend property is becoming valuable, ergo bought by wealthier people). To private schools. To programs around the district that are a "better fit" for the kid.<BR/><BR/>I don't know about neighborhoods already being diverse, tho'...Let's see, a quick review:<BR/>Magnolia - wealthier (comparatively: ALL neighborhoods are become wealthier as fewer middle class people can afford this city (ah, the good old days, when Magnolia WAS middle-class...)<BR/>Southpark: poorer<BR/>Beacon Hill: "middle class" (but have your priced houses there, lately?)<BR/>Wedgewood: Upper-middle class (except where it intersects Lake City Way)<BR/>Lake City: Middle class and immigrant...<BR/>Fremont/Walligford/Greenlake: upper class<BR/>Greenwood/Phinney: Mid-to-upper class<BR/>Northgate: Middle class<BR/>North of Northgate: Mid-to-upper class<BR/>North Cap Hill: Upper-to-very wealthy<BR/>Madison Park: Wealthy<BR/>CD: Mid-to-upper<BR/>Madrona: Mid-to-upper<BR/>Mount Baker: East: wealthy; West; middle<BR/><BR/>What I'm seeing is not much economic diversity, and wht's there is disappearing rapidly. So maybe using SES is not a good idea, maybe we should plan for larger and larger influx of wealthier people and their children...<BR/><BR/>If we are using an SES model, public housing (Section 8, etc) tells us where the pockets of REAL low income are.<BR/><BR/>Here's a link:<BR/>http://www.seattlehousing.org/Housing/programs/liph/liphlocations.asp<BR/><BR/>Let's see...by number of units:<BR/>South of Ship Canal (excluding Queen Anne and Magnolia)<BR/><BR/>Downtown/1st Hill: 504<BR/>Rainier Beach: 89<BR/>Rainier Valley: 228<BR/>Beacon Hill: 107<BR/>ID: 99<BR/>Cap. Hill: 399<BR/>West Sea. : 274<BR/><BR/>=1700<BR/><BR/>Queen Anne and N. of Ship Canal:<BR/>Greenlake: 129<BR/>Greenwood: 80<BR/>Queen Anne (lower): 123<BR/>QA (Upper): 59<BR/>Ballard: 78<BR/>Lake City: 182<BR/>Bitter Lake: 86<BR/>U-District: 213<BR/><BR/>= 940<BR/><BR/>So neighborhood schools, as we know from years of conjecture, are probably wealthier north of the canal. Real estate trends tell us this will change, but we'll still, of course, have pockets of poor families and students throughout the city, mainly, at this point, in the south.seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-60796776401064685572008-06-03T13:22:00.000-07:002008-06-03T13:22:00.000-07:00And how well will "choice" be working when gas is ...And how well will "choice" be working when gas is $6.00 a gallon? What about $10.00? Won't it be even less equitable when groups of people can't afford to drive to far-flung schools. We've been operating with a "gas is free" mentality for a long time now. It simply isn't true any more and we need a little shift in our thinking. I paid $4.21 today, and summer isn't even here.<BR/><BR/>It seems to me that most neigborhoods ARE pretty diverse, and could be pretty good, if we didn't have so much "white flight". Let's just call it what it is, and suck up the little bit of pain it takes to say it.anonymshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06670090189977287310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47675531042485933882008-06-03T12:35:00.000-07:002008-06-03T12:35:00.000-07:00I wish the Times series had had space (or inclinat...I wish the Times series had had space (or inclination) to take a look at alternative schools. Their multi cluster draw areas can give them a chance to decrease racial isolation. <BR/><BR/>TOPS and Orca are two that seem (from the Times' data) to match the district (50-60% nonwhite), but they are able to do it because they are available to families from multiple clusters. TOPS is listed as being 56% non white while the Montlake reference area (which surrounds it) is only 23% nonwhite. If it lost its multi cluster draw area it could soon become another racially isolated school.<BR/><BR/>It sounds like (from the Times comments) most people value neighborhood schools over diversity, even so, there are many who do value it highly. I hope the District believes it is worth maintaining that possibility for families who think it is important. Many districts offer magnet programs that draw families with common interests from all over a city. The closest thing Seattle has to that is our alternative schools.Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36909124151270209852008-06-03T11:44:00.000-07:002008-06-03T11:44:00.000-07:00Ad hoc,of course they count as much (the APP) I wa...Ad hoc,<BR/>of course they count as much (the APP) I was only suggesting that APP not be used as a default if a parent wanted to have his/her child go to a school other than the neighborhood school.<BR/><BR/>Of course! I forgot all about little ol' Nova, a wonderful place...It exemplifies "alternative" as described in the District-appointed Alt Committee in its twelve-point checklist...<BR/><BR/>Note that on the strategic plan the indication that SPS will take another look at its Alt schools, and see what's going on. I hope they take into account the committee work.seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-55408716384161650172008-06-03T11:15:00.000-07:002008-06-03T11:15:00.000-07:00Seattle Citizen, I am not arguing with your "choic...Seattle Citizen, I am not arguing with your "choice" not to send your child across town and get him up at 5:30 in the morning. You don't have to defend your position - I respect it. Surely though, you acknowledge and respect that different people make different "choices". Some people do "choose" to send their kids out of their neighborhoods to find schools that meet their needs. The choice system works fairly well for them, as it has worked for you. <BR/><BR/>Regarding HS - Summit is not the only Alt HS, Nova is another one, and I would consider the Center School an alt too. But I don't know why you are bringing them up anyway because by HS, kids are using PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, not yellow buses, so there is no transportation barrier/argument for you there.<BR/><BR/>And, BTW kids that score in the tippy top 3% that choose APP, count just as much as your child.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18341435084325148332008-06-03T10:33:00.000-07:002008-06-03T10:33:00.000-07:00(Ms. Campbell - welcome, and thank you for your st...(Ms. Campbell - welcome, and thank you for your studious efforts to learn about these issues, your contribution to these discussions, and your eloquence.)<BR/><BR/>ad hoc,<BR/><BR/>hmm, "choice at its best"...I suppose. But if one is arguing that there a diversity of programs, and parent/guardians can merely choose to send students to those programs...aren't the time factor and the neighborhood factors cogent? On one side we argue for increased parent/guardian participation, yet how is one to participate if Junior leaves the house at 5:30 am to get to school on time?<BR/><BR/>While I am a proponent of the Alt schools (and there's only one high school Alt, Summit, unless you count the newly designated "safety net" schools of South Lake, Interagency and Middle College), I don't think they should be used as a fall-back on transportation issues; they have unique curricula, etc, that might not be for everybody...And "try for Lowell/APP"? APP accepts students who score in the very tippy-top of percentile (I think it's in the top 3%) and is a speciallized program, again, not a "fall-back" to address transportation issues.seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11900721865418566832008-06-03T09:56:00.000-07:002008-06-03T09:56:00.000-07:00ZB, you use transportation as a barrier that block...ZB, you use transportation as a barrier that blocks choice.<BR/><BR/>I don't agree. There are many schools within the same cluster that are either all black or all white. Especially in the more diverse areas like the Central Cluster. A family will get transportation to any school in that cluster. If there are no schools in your cluster that please you, you can still choose from a vast array of alternative schools with all city and multiple cluster transportation. Or you can try for Lowell/APP, or you can drive your child out of cluster. At high school all transportation arguments are moot, because kids now use public transit. So transportation is not as restricting as you make it seem. Families have a lot of options.<BR/><BR/>Then you said that the on time enrollment is a barrier to choice. Well, if you have a choice system you have to have an enrollment deadline. While the district can do more outreach in this area, they can't hold parents hands and lead them into the enrollment office. And, the parents who do not make on time enrollment, are not the parents researching the district for a good fit school for their kids. The system is not restricting these families choice, they are restricting it themselves. Place blame where blame is due.<BR/><BR/>And to Seattle Citizen - you say There really isn't choice because "some families don't relish the idea of sending their kids miles away to school" You are absolutely right, but that doesn't mean that they can't or don't have choice. Quite the opposite. They have the choice to send their kids across town, and CHOOSE not to do it. That's choice at it's best!anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62730655042719216872008-06-03T09:32:00.000-07:002008-06-03T09:32:00.000-07:00Comments:"Choice" - some parents/guardians/familie...Comments:<BR/>"Choice" - some parents/guardians/families don't relish the idea of sending a student miles away to benefit from programs halfway across the city.<BR/><BR/>"People want to be with people like them" - My experience is that people want to be where they can AFFORD to be. I doubt that an immigrant, new to the country, CHOOSES to live where they are with people "like" them; most immigrants I know, and their children, are really, really hard at work trying to climb the economic ladder so they can move to Redmond or some such. Familie's interests start with their own economic position and security; where they can afford it, they then MIGHT choose to locate in a community of "similar" people.<BR/><BR/>"Moving to Renton for the schools..." - Or, economic realities again, moving to Renton, out of an area that used to be the red-lined "district" for African Americans (the CD), to Renton becuase a) the red-lines are gone and b) the house in the CD is now worth $600,000 and one can buy a house in Renton for $300,000.<BR/><BR/>Music and drama - diminishing enrollment = diminishing funding. Schools that are getting smaller lose "extra" stuff, like music (Cleveland, 1998) or drama (RB, great facility, no funding for dedicated drama teacher.)<BR/><BR/>Back to choice and demographics: It is disingeneous to think that families are free agents, able and willing to move around the city to be with who they want to be with. This is a luxury. Many families in the city live where they can, and many families (more so, lately) are poor: who can afford to live in Seattle, where the average house costs something like $450,000? So old-timer poor families move as their property increases in value, and new, wealthier families move in. These are the demographics to look at: What will the SES look like in ten years?seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32718226098742374292008-06-03T09:19:00.000-07:002008-06-03T09:19:00.000-07:00"If Seattle school are segregated it is by choice"..."If Seattle school are segregated it is by choice" <BR/><BR/>(and I'm interpreting choice as being choice in the sense that this is what the parents choose for their children, not what they get because of limited choices). <BR/><BR/>ad hoc, for two simple, and statistically verifiable reasons, this is simply not true: 1) transportation issues 2) the "on-time" enrollment, which both effect economically disadvantaged families disproportionately. The on-time enrollment stats always shock me when I hear about them (30% I think), and then I think about it and realize that it actually makes sense. <BR/><BR/>Furthermore, your example of Bryant is pretty flawed, now? given that no one outside of Bryant's reference area had access to the school this year (without the sibling preference). So, the "choice" that you were able to avail yourself of is no longer available. <BR/><BR/>If people use "choice" to flee economically disadvantaged schools, then "choice" becomes a state-sponsored means of enhancing disadvantage, rather than mitigating it. <BR/><BR/>(and I'm using economics because though I may have opinions about race, I have no desire to get into discussions about them, because I think it's unnecessary for making our decisions about school assignments).zbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205346985598789513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-51473446749265849512008-06-03T06:41:00.000-07:002008-06-03T06:41:00.000-07:00Charlie, I don't think it is unfair that Roosevelt...Charlie, I don't think it is unfair that Roosevelt or Garfield have a strong music program and other schools don't. You are right they worked hard to create and grow them, and they are seeing the fruits of their efforts. I think the issue is not that every school should offer the same high quality music program, but that there is fair access to the programs that exist. If you have a child who is a gifted, dedicated musician who happens to live in an area where no adults made the "effort" to create a strong music program, that child is just out of luck. And, that's what I think many people think is unfair. The same applies for other unique programs like the JSIS. It is amazing to me that we have had only one immersion school in the entire district and the enrollment is restricted to one neighborhood. <BR/><BR/>There is the other side of the coin too though. Roosevelt worked hard to make their music program a stellar program. Is it fair to them to limit their own access by opening the program to a wider draw? It almost seems like a penalty. Work hard to make your program stellar, and then have it taken away from your community for that very reason.<BR/><BR/>There is no easy solution.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18444351212113778822008-06-03T06:25:00.000-07:002008-06-03T06:25:00.000-07:00In Shoreline middle school representatives go to a...In Shoreline middle school representatives go to all of the feeder elementary schools and provide each child with an enrollment package, children bring them home and get them filled out and then the representatives come back to collect them. Same for high school. The high school sends representatives to the middle school to pass out the enrollment packages and then they come back to collect them. Seattle could do this too, and it might make a difference for middle school and high school on time enrollment. They could also go to identified feeder pre-schools, peps groups, daycare centers, etc and do the same for elementary enrollment.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-64371705773336949042008-06-03T01:13:00.000-07:002008-06-03T01:13:00.000-07:00Ms Campbell, the data you are looking for is calle...Ms Campbell, the data you are looking for is called the Blue Book. It can be found on the District web site. From the home page follow the links to About Us, Central Departments, Budget & Finance, Budget, School Funding, Weighted Student Formula by School. Or, you could just follow this link: <A HREF="http://www.seattleschools.org/area/finance/budget/bluebook/08/index.htm" REL="nofollow">Weighted Student Formula by School</A><BR/><BR/>Here you will find the District funding for each school. You will see that Loyal Heights, enrollment 379, for example, was funded with $1,763,417 ($4,653 per student) from the weighted student formula and that Loyal Heights was also funded through the District with another $70,702 in I-728 and compensatory education funds for a total of $4,840 per student. Highland Park, enrollment 410, received funding of $2,086,942 ($5,090 per student) through the weighted student formula and with another $378,121 in I-728 and compensatory education funding for a total of $6,012 per student.<BR/><BR/>You can check the total funding for each school on a school by school basis this way. You will see that, through the compensatory education funding, the District puts a great deal more money into the schools with high concentrations of FRE students. These schools tend to also have the highest concentration of minority students - although that is by no means a rule.<BR/><BR/>If you are going to make statements such as "<I>It is fundamentally unfair that public schools with higher enrollment of minority students tend to have less funding</I>" you would be wise to confirm your facts first. The opposite is true.<BR/><BR/>There are, of course, those famous six-figure fundraisers at a few schools. Such things do really exist at a very few locations. They are not as common as you might believe. Loyal Heights does not have six-figure fundraisers. Lafayette does not. Schmitz Park does not. Really only a handful of schools do. The $300,000compensatory education funding to Highland Park, however, isn't unusual at all. Concord gets $284,000, Emerson gets $382,000. Check any high minority, high poverty school you like. Please check the numbers for yourself.<BR/><BR/>The simple truth is that the low-income, high minority schools get more money from the District and more money total than the affluent schools with the six-figure fundraisers and a whole lot more money than the middle class schools with much more modest fundraising abilities and ambitions.<BR/><BR/><B>anonyms</B> can try to dismiss such facts as "red herrings" but they are numbers that speak for themselves and are indisputable. <B>anonyms</B> is wrong to presume that such six-figure fundraisers are common. They are not. <B>anonyms</B> is, of course, right that students from low-income homes have educational needs that demand greater expenditures. But how much more? How will this money be used to make up the difference in home life? Could any amount of money do that? What does it cost to educate a student from a low-income home and what does it cost to educate a student from a middle class home?<BR/><BR/>As to the suggestion that a concentration of music and drama came to a few schools - as if it fell out of the sky onto them - is just insulting to the large number of people who have worked selflessly for years to build those programs. These schools were not chosen for these investments, they made these investments. They have watched them grow over the years and they add to them annually. Do you think that the District comes around and grants students at Roosevelt or Garfield musical skills? Those students worked hard for those skills. And there is absolutely nothing keeping the students at any other school from working just as hard to develop their skills and there is absolutely nothing to keep the staff and community at other schools from investing their time, effort, and commitment, to create similar programs at their schools. Nobody has been handed anything and nobody has any sort of monopoly on effort.<BR/><BR/>Just because someone else has something, that doesn't mean they acquired it through any unfair means. Just because they have it and you don't doesn't mean that the situation is unfair. If that were true then the only fair state would be for everyone to have the same regardless of personal effort or talent. Is that the plan that is being promoted as preferable?Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57833514938259738572008-06-02T22:49:00.000-07:002008-06-02T22:49:00.000-07:00" Maureen what do you think the district could off..." Maureen what do you think the district could offer families who miss the enrollment deadline to make the system more fair?"<BR/><BR/>Do the school that have large populations of families that do not enroll on time do anything to try to facilitate on-time enrollment? It seems like it would be a huge help if there were couselors that would work with these families to help them navigate the system and make good choices for their families during the enrollment period.annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06891398273398141400noreply@blogger.com