tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post6704509412443470387..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Bell Times: They Will Be A'Changin'Melissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger111125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1955868810806150632015-10-24T08:18:00.701-07:002015-10-24T08:18:00.701-07:00Well that's good news. Families won't hav...Well that's good news. Families won't have to pay $2k to have their 5 year olds start school at 9:40.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84678675429845916802015-10-23T20:56:06.084-07:002015-10-23T20:56:06.084-07:00It's not surprising if that's true. Title ...It's not surprising if that's true. Title I schools were not put in the third tier unless they requested it (Bailey Gatzert.) This is the last year of pay-for-K across the state.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34453879962477241212015-10-23T17:13:40.314-07:002015-10-23T17:13:40.314-07:00Am I wrong, or do 5 out of the 10 Tier 3 elementar...Am I wrong, or do 5 out of the 10 Tier 3 elementary schools also foot a yearly $2800 bill for full day kindergarten? Seems like these families are unfairly burdened twice...pay for K, plus lose 100 minutes of optimal learning. Stinks if you live in that neighborhood.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18853904349805690402015-10-23T11:25:01.262-07:002015-10-23T11:25:01.262-07:00@CCA
My son plays Ultimate Frisbee at Hale. Hale...@CCA<br /><br />My son plays Ultimate Frisbee at Hale. Hale's school day currently starts at 8:40 and ends at 3:10. Ultimate practice runs from 3:30 - 5:00. If a game is scheduled after school, kids on the team are released early from 6th period. I don't have any experience with other sports, but they probably have similar practice times.<br /><br />-North-end MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38783459735959301982015-10-22T22:27:46.522-07:002015-10-22T22:27:46.522-07:00So if all high schools go from 8:50 to 3:20, does ...So if all high schools go from 8:50 to 3:20, does that mean sports practices will run until 6:30-7pm? That will push dinner time for families with kids in Metro sports to 7:30 pm or later. I guess maybe those kids can adapt to eating later, and football softball etc can play with lighted fields, but what about cross-country? Running through some of the more woodsy and isolated trails in the dark wouldn't be possible because of safety concerns. . <br /><br />I know many who read this blog don't think that sports are important; but high school team-sports can teach kids many valuable skills if the coach does it right (and the parents aren't vainglorious loons living through their kids' accomplishments) - kids learn to win gracefully, lose without falling into despair, resiliency, persistence, cohesiveness, unselfishness, team work, sacrifice, courage, pride of accomplishment. Some kids are late bloomers academically, sports can give them self esteem and confidence, teach them to work and play pwell with others. And it's also fun, healthy and keep kids out of trouble and bad choices. I had friends who stopped smoking so they could be better athletes. While I think we go way overboard with the win at any cost and the big money in football and basketball, I think it'd be a mistake to not have school sports. Many families can't afford the high costs and travel demands of club sports. <br /><br />What are the district's plans for after school sports? <br /><br /><br />CCAAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50777044308178048772015-10-22T18:41:40.584-07:002015-10-22T18:41:40.584-07:00Our current system costs somewhere in the neighbor...Our current system costs somewhere in the neighborhood of $2400 per rider annually, per OSPI. I don't have the report right in front of me with that figure but it's far more than I expected and more than I have seen reported by the district. <br /><br />The issue of ending up with reduced efficiency is hard to figure out. There's a formula for efficiency but Seattle's efficiency is always 100% apparently because we are so much bigger than anyone else we can't be compared. <br /><br />GarfieldMomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21667013890633428772015-10-22T16:20:20.758-07:002015-10-22T16:20:20.758-07:00Yes, congrats seems to be in order for the majorit...Yes, congrats seems to be in order for the majority. Please thank the minority of students riding Tier 3 buses for the victory. Has anyone seen the details behind the $8-$15 million estimate for two tier busing?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15593929373888872792015-10-22T14:30:03.871-07:002015-10-22T14:30:03.871-07:00Response to my email supporting bell time changes ...Response to my email supporting bell time changes for MS/HS:<br /><br />Thank you for your email to the School Board regarding your support of the 2016-17 bell times for our District. We appreciate the time and effort you have made to contact us.<br /><br />The most recent recommendation detailing proposed times at all schools was released on October 13, to schools and public, to allow for community review and send feedback before the November 4, School Board vote on the 2016-17 transportation standards. From the community input we have received, it is apparent that most families desire either Tier 1 (8am start time) or Tier 2 (8:50am start time). However, the District does not have the funding for only a two tiered- transportation system, which requires more buses and is estimated to cost between $8-15 million. Therefore, a Tier 3 transportation system must be maintained, while working to build a schedule to accommodate later start times. With limited funding, the Board has limited options. <br /><br />In late September, the District held five community meetings to review and comment on a draft recommendation. The feedback received indicated that moving Title 1 schools to the latest arrival time (Tier 3) would worsen the opportunity gap for students who face some of the greatest challenges. Therefore the decision by the Superintendent and his leadership team was made to update the recommendation to move all Title 1 schools to Tier 1 or 2, and create a budget neutral scenario for the rest of the school’s bus routing system. In this way, there will be less schools in a Tier 3. Through implementing these priorities, the District will be able to reduce the current (2015-16) number of Tier 3 schools (33) to 13 Tier 3 schools in the current 2016-17 recommendation. <br /><br />The District continues to take feedback on this recommendation at the arrivaltimes@seattleschools.org until November 2nd. Your input will help guide the district to make the best choice for our district. <br /><br />-change BTsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24705214806427131092015-10-22T12:50:59.167-07:002015-10-22T12:50:59.167-07:00Rats. Forgot about the walk zone and 'opt out...Rats. Forgot about the walk zone and 'opt outs' of bus service. <br />Double rats that only 18K rode the buses.<br />Triple rats that charging for service would reduce our state funding allocation<br /><br />more rates about the cost-neutral meaning benefits in exchange wouldn't work.<br /><br />oh well<br /><br />:( eleanorAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20749000249977574482015-10-22T12:46:55.537-07:002015-10-22T12:46:55.537-07:00eleanor,
I believe the district is only willing t...eleanor,<br /><br />I believe the district is only willing to make a change that is cost-neutral - so giving Tier 3 schools benefits in exchange is not likely to happen.<br /><br />Only about 18,000 students were riding yellow buses last year. <br /><br />State transportation funding is based on estimated cost for the current year and is limited to the prior year's actual cost (adjusted for schools that are opened or closed.) If we were to charge a fee for riding the school bus, the next year's funding would be reduced by that amount. The state funding calculation also takes into account efficiency - so if we were to switch to two tiers and increase our costs by $8M, the next year's funding would increase, but likely not by $8M. Staff has not provided any data on this. The other question is where we'd find additional buses and drivers. I hear this is also a problem.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-28185765435274820792015-10-22T12:46:46.542-07:002015-10-22T12:46:46.542-07:00Oh - and Licton Springs is going to be dealing wit...Oh - and Licton Springs is going to be dealing with families losing transportation as will likely Broadview-Thompson. Also, as communities move to interim sites and pick up community members close by as students and then move to other sites, they will as well. Hazel Wolf gets it a littler earlier than some of these other communities, but it will continue to be an issue and it would be great to come up with a reasonable solution. Salmon Bay is an example from the past where a solution would have really helped that community.<br /><br />~bussing madnessAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40639605117124993422015-10-22T12:43:46.049-07:002015-10-22T12:43:46.049-07:00The idea that some might pay some for transportati...The idea that some might pay some for transportation is interesting, but you'd have to subtract all those in walk zones as well. And those who are eligible for buses but don't use them (I drop my daughter off at her school because it is on the way to work for me and we can leave 20-30 minutes later.) <br /><br />I'm also interested in allowing parents to opt-out of bus routes on an annual basis. Right now the buses are "full" but because of people like me, they have lots of space, typically. If we could have a way for some parents to just say that they don't want bus service for the year, then we could run fewer buses... Right now there's no way to do that. And you can't really charge people if they want to opt out entirely and can't... <br /><br />Another transportation issue is what happens when families lose service based on the boundary restructures? With the new WP site schools opening up in 2017, there will be more boundary jockeying that will affect communities and bus eligibility. For next year Hazel Wolf families in the Eckstein service area are losing bus service but I hear there are currently 6 buses that come from the Eckstein service area to HW. What if those families were willing to pay? What if there were designated hub stops so the bus would only need to make 4-5 stops rather than a dozen stops? Some of those families will lose transportation in 2016-17 just to regain it possibly when the Eagle Staff Middle School opens in 2017 (in the Mapleleaf, OV areas.)<br /><br />It's a complex issue, certainly.<br /><br />~bussing madness<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-90580509719357815012015-10-22T12:08:46.539-07:002015-10-22T12:08:46.539-07:00Thanks Tier 3 (10/21/15, 12:33 PM) – that reframin...Thanks Tier 3 (10/21/15, 12:33 PM) – that reframing is really helpful. <br /><br />I have always been in favor of later starts for MS and HS. Even before we got there, even when our elem school started later. Just from reading the research. Now that I have kids there, geez louise – it’s the right thing to do. And I agree, we don’t want this train to leave the station w/o headway because I doubt there will be another go round. A key aside -- this initiative has been in the works for YEARS. Surveys and committees and task forces and public testimony and public meetings/ community outreach. I know some families are new to SPS and are cycling in but the time to protest has past I think. <br /><br />My personal feelings aside, how do we get around this roadblock? <br /><br />Two ideas:<br /><br />1. Would it work to have 13 schools who need to be in Tier 3 CHOOSE to be in Tier 3? With some incentive? Like class size reduction, or funds to go to before school programming, or library/classroom books or tutoring dollars or __________ (insert incentive here). And would this cost less than the figure to get us to Tier 2? That way the school community knows the benefits of the choice. Still might not fit each and every student/family, but nothing ever fits 100%.<br /><br />2. I would be 100% willing to pay for bus service, just like I did for Pay for K and like I do for school lunche. It is a big convenience to have my child transported to and from school. I understand not everyone is in this position but should we at least talk about it? Check my math (not my strong suit) 53,000 SPS students minus 19, 610 (which are the 37% which are FRL) = 33,390 / $5million (one estimate to get to 2 tiers) = $150 per year per kid. (/10 months of school = $15 per month per kid) Right? Are there enough people who can and are willing to pay for bus service to make it reasonable. We could even have a scholarship system where families could pay more? <br /><br />I’m just tossing out ideas. <br /><br />signed,<br />eleanor<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-45846878127273804652015-10-22T10:52:47.303-07:002015-10-22T10:52:47.303-07:00This document shows this year's bell times sid...This document shows this year's bell times side-by-side with the proposal for next year. There are a couple of high schools already in Tier 2 this year, but most of them are currently in Tier 1. <br /><br />http://sps.ss8.sharpschool.com/common/pages/DisplayFile.aspx?itemId=2927552<br /> <br /><br />Tier 3Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23162542054810744922015-10-22T10:07:56.249-07:002015-10-22T10:07:56.249-07:00Mr. Miller, I would have to disagree with you. You...Mr. Miller, I would have to disagree with you. Your daughter must go to a high school that is already lucky enough to have a later start time. My son's school will start an hour later which I think will make a HUGE difference for his academics. He is chronically sleep deprived. Biologically he has a very hard time getting to sleep earlier than 11 PM or so. Have you seen the studies indicating that this is true for most teens? There will be plenty of time for activities and homework in the 7 hours between 3:30 PM and 10:30 PM.<br /><br />I truly hope this change happens.Broad Momnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-74097300617067211982015-10-22T09:39:33.785-07:002015-10-22T09:39:33.785-07:00All the advocates for the later bell times are jok...All the advocates for the later bell times are joking right?? My daughter's HS start time will start 10 minutes later than it does now......is that extra 10 minutes going to really make a big difference in sleep deprivation? NO! There are only 24 hours in a day.....you push the start times back so they start later, they get out of school later, the after school activities are later, they get home later, they are doing homework later, they are going to bed later, and they are getting the same amount of sleep.......did we accomplish anything??? NO. You can spout all the "proven medical benefits" but the problem with those is it will only work if your child has no other activities outside of school or home. For those kids who do other things, than the point is mute. SPS needs to stop hiding behind the "we are doing what is best for the kids" and just say we are doing what is most cost effective for us. When have they ever done anything that has been about the kids. If this were truly about the HS and MS kids then no elementary schools would be Tier 3, we all can agree on that. If they are so for changing the times then it should the same for ALL not most. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17134185061985315084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-48064023654607817212015-10-21T17:24:49.537-07:002015-10-21T17:24:49.537-07:00Initially MS was in tier 3.
But many parents com...Initially MS was in tier 3. <br /><br />But many parents complained. Middle schoolers travel longer distances through unsafe neighborhoods after dark & use public transit. Also programs like Team Read depend on ending the same time as high schools. They went to the meetings. So MS was shifted earlier. Frankly I am amazed that a whole bunch more elementaries weren't shifted to 3rd tier to make up for that. Seems like someone in transportation has seriously been trying to move toward 2-tiers. <br /><br />There will not be any proposal that doesn't provoke many complaints. Every bell time will be a hardship for someone. Someone is going to make sacrifices no matter where this lands, even if there is no change. Even if it is 2-tiers. It is not a question of if, but of who & how many.<br /> <br /><br />-also tiredAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-48323069378075318662015-10-21T16:28:44.089-07:002015-10-21T16:28:44.089-07:00Location matters makes a very good point - why sho...Location matters makes a very good point - why shouldn't all the tier 3 spots be MS and HS?<br />I still think its better to go with this proposal and maybe tweak it in future than to stick with the status quo.<br /><br />Thank aheadAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-576848609803020152015-10-21T16:19:12.196-07:002015-10-21T16:19:12.196-07:00Why aren't the MS and HS being put in Tier 3? ...Why aren't the MS and HS being put in Tier 3? If later is better, then give them the latest start! Parents of older students can leave for work and be (generally) assured that their kids have the skills to make it out of the door on their own.<br /><br />There are also MANY fewer high schools than there are elementary. Why not make those 13 schools in Tier 3 high schools?<br /><br />While I can no longer find it on the SPS website, they already have plans in place for the extra 20 minutes. In Tier 3, this means a 4:20 end time.<br /><br />Again, why are the students who are the most in need and the most capable of self-transport, high schoolers, not being put in Tier 3?Location Mattersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41589625833325364292015-10-21T15:52:24.183-07:002015-10-21T15:52:24.183-07:00MS and HS kids need later starts. I have one of th...MS and HS kids need later starts. I have one of those very tired middleschoolers. And I have a Tier 3 elem kid. Yeah, it's not ideal to have a 7:50 and 9:30 start time but we do it and I will be happy for my elem kid to have a reasonable start time when we start MS with that kid because that is really when it counts. I would be much happier with an earlier elem start but for the common good, I'm fine with staying in Tier 3. It an improvement for most schools and more importantly, MS and HS need it. Seriously folks, kids and families and after school activities adjust! SPS has done a fabulous job of pitting us all against each other once again, but if this is the best proposal we can get out of them, then I support it. Get this approved and then start pushing the new Board to get more transparent about the costs and hold SPS accountable to finding a solution or putting the screws to the transportation vendor.<br />-SPS TiredAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88990847555234395592015-10-21T15:34:18.436-07:002015-10-21T15:34:18.436-07:00I don't think the Board is hearing much suppor...I don't think the Board is hearing much support for the latest bell time proposal. So, if you think it's a step in the right direction, you should send them a note! I just got a response from a Director that made me think there are loads of negative comments heading their way but not too many positives.<br /><br />Tier 3's earlier comment showing the huge number of schools that will have improved schedules proves this is a huge step in the right direction! My kid's elementary will stay tier 3, but it almost has to due to the long bus rides of many students. It's really difficult, but we make it work. <br /><br />Although not perfect, if you think this is at all an improvement over what we have now, send the School Board an e-mail. Don't assume other people are sending positive thoughts, but you can rest-assured the Board is hearing from many opposed.Robynnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76130374946319291582015-10-21T15:11:22.396-07:002015-10-21T15:11:22.396-07:00Yeah must not have been communicated correctly, be...Yeah must not have been communicated correctly, because weekly early dismissals would be shorter overall hours. Could it have been monthly? regardless that issue shouldn't reflect back on these proposed changes. As all of this may change with more money from the state once they fully fund k-12.<br /><br /><br />-app dadAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81387071268557677922015-10-21T14:26:26.410-07:002015-10-21T14:26:26.410-07:00Good point BT and others! I do appreciate the wel...Good point BT and others! I do appreciate the well thought out comments on this string. The trade idea is intriguing.Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02758395719572804073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71078810066819668362015-10-21T14:24:51.972-07:002015-10-21T14:24:51.972-07:00What I would like to see is some long term plannin...What I would like to see is some long term planning information made public. It is not enough just to see next years proposed bell times. If SPS is intending to add 20 mins to the school day (and have a early dismissal day each week) I would like to see what the impact of this will be on any new start times that are implemented. <br />Firstly, I think it is rather outrageous that the district has decided to adopt this extra 20 mins without any public notification/consultation and the only reason we found out was via the strike/teacher pay negotiations. But even more disturbing is the lack of information about they intend to implement it- for instance would they be:<br />-adding 20 mins to the end of the day = same start time, later finish?<br />- adding 20 mins at the start = earlier start time, same finish?<br />-adding 10 mins at both ends = 10 min earlier start, 10 min later dismissal<br />-doing the same at every school or would they have some start some earlier or some finish later?<br />Surely it is important to know now, otherwise in 1-2 years time we will all get a potentially unpleasant surprise that may even negate the changes we would be making for next year?<br />And anyway, what is the actual benefit of adding 20 mins x 4 days then taking away 2-3 hrs 1 afternoon per week = it pretty much cancels out!!!<br /><br />Long term planning<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46826822985039119112015-10-21T14:20:29.570-07:002015-10-21T14:20:29.570-07:00http://seattleschools.org/directory
To NE Mom fro...http://seattleschools.org/directory<br /><br />To NE Mom from several posts earlier, I am picking no fights with the generous transportation comment. I am not begrudging the option schools their bus service, I just think the middle school walk zones coupled with their start times are insane! <br /><br />To answer your question about what I mean, please click on the above link. Then, scroll down to Salmon Bay K-8 or Louisa Boren K-8 and take a look at their transportation maps. There is a small walk zone at these schools and a huge area that gets transportation.<br /><br />To put my comments further into perspective, click on any attendance area middle school that you are familiar with and look at how incredibly large their walk zones are. It's laughable to expect these children to walk that far to school - especially when kids need to be to school before 7:30am in many cases! They'd need to leave home by 6:30am or earlier.<br /><br />So, I don't get how kids who choose an option school get "generous" transportation benefits and petition for the "best" start times while kids who are expected to walk some CRAZY routes to school don't get transportation and are saddled with the "worst" start times. To further that, the "best" start/end times are well within daylight hours, but they are also getting transportation. This unjustly gives "double-safety" to those kids. Meanwhile, some elementary, middle and high school students have "double-danger" by having a very long walk at least one way in the dark. Kids on the early start do their danger walk in the morning. Kids on the late start do their danger walk in the evening.<br /><br />I hope the Boren K-8 PTA president's interview was heavily edited due to the above inequities of transportation, walk zones and start times. I could never be worried about my child's snack time while 1000's of children were in danger daily. <br /><br />I hope that ramble makes sense when you look at the maps. People like M that are against their elementary kid starting at an undesirable time while middle school kids face these walks in the pitch black are so incredibly selfish or short-sighted. I don't know which one it is, but it's not looking out for the greater good! Karennoreply@blogger.com