tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post6843553631115462770..comments2024-03-29T02:41:52.718-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Principals and Curriculum and Programs and Their SchoolsMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9870832549855115862015-06-13T16:19:36.997-07:002015-06-13T16:19:36.997-07:00@n
Thanks for sticking with MIF and making it wor...@n<br /><br />Thanks for sticking with MIF and making it work with your students. This curriculum does take a lot of effort. You are right about the importance of number bonds and the composing and decomposing of numbers being key to numeracy. I also have to agree with you that I don't much care for the workbook pages. I think they were sloppily put together and need some serious editing.Linh-Conoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76858705414520343822015-06-13T06:44:44.401-07:002015-06-13T06:44:44.401-07:00Whole group instruction is efficient, that's w...Whole group instruction is efficient, that's why it's been around longer than the Greeks. Really, how many lessons can one teacher be expected to teach in an hour?<br />West ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33820432012350257902015-06-12T23:17:11.302-07:002015-06-12T23:17:11.302-07:00I have to add one more thing to "singapore at...I have to add one more thing to "singapore at home" and that is that I do a lot of word problems. That's where the thinking comes in. I ask my kids to look at data, show number bonds, equations (eventually) and now even bar models. The number bonds help them understand if they are comparing (many more), joining (making a whole) or taking apart. We've been able to do almost everything with number bonds and the kids understand number relationships better.<br /><br />When I explain how I teach, I'm putting myself out there! I'm so not a math person that if anyone thinks I should be corrected, please feel free to do it! But it's been working for me so far. And my kids even got the concept of "additive" which is our newest learning. All I can say is that there are ways to make it interesting but first teacher has to really understand what is being taught - the essence of the learning. And the student book and workbook pages ain't doin' it. It really helped me having someone to thrash it out with every day. <br /><br />With that, I'll stop. <i>(This is really important to me!)</i> And I don't like <i>engageNY</i>nnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71376747126036576272015-06-12T23:02:17.736-07:002015-06-12T23:02:17.736-07:00@RH - I'll defer to you because it has been a ...@RH - I'll defer to you because it has been a long time. Hopefully, she's moved toward being less opinionated and rigid in her "rightness." She was smart but smart isn't always wise. <br /><br />@Singapore at home: I got through 27 first graders this year and I worked like hell to figure out the program myself. I put them on the carpet and tried to make it as interesting as I could and over time as they got it, we started to love it together. I have to say number bonds were key. A few of my kids started going nuts over number bonds and I began to learn about number relationships, whole/part vs. comparing, additive vs. whole/part (which I think is misnamed) and realizing that adding symbols too soon limits children's natural understanding of numbers and puts certain procedures in boxes. As we continued working without rushing to the next chapter, my kids began to understand. And when that light went on, suddenly they were hungry for more. Did I have a couple who drifted away? Yes. They were first graders after all. Extra work with them helped. I think the key is not to rush. Really, I didn't get into regrouping with hundreds at all. I stayed with two-digit regrouping. We did do some bar modeling because I wanted them to have a taste of second grade and they got it almost immediately because they understood the concept of whole/part so well. BTW much of this is covered in EDM but the importance of it - the emphasis on numeracy(see W Parent) has clarified what's important and redefined how I teach.<br /><br />It was a huge amount of work for me to simply understand what I was supposed to teach them. The first-grade materials are crummy. But I get it now. And I believe in it. And I passionately hope that my school doesn't give in to the comfort level of teachers at the expense of a really good math program. nnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17360595197284674682015-06-12T18:28:30.554-07:002015-06-12T18:28:30.554-07:00The post and general comments aptly describe what&...The post and general comments aptly describe what's been happening at Salmon Bay. The new principal is all about test scores, whole child/cooperative approach be damned.<br /><br />-optionlessAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65531716240847334062015-06-12T10:10:20.382-07:002015-06-12T10:10:20.382-07:00I am hearing that elementary teachers hate MIF bec...I am hearing that elementary teachers hate MIF because the lessons are scripted and require whole group direct instruction. There is no time available for small groups working on different skills. I suspect this is largely about what teachers are comfortable with - and I wish they had some information on the post-elementary math success of students who learn Singapore math in elementary school.<br /><br />I hope that when the McLeary money finally shows up we hire math specialists for our elementary schools. Having someone available to guide teachers and to work with kids who need remedial or more challenging work would be helpful. Alternatively, team-teaching in elementary school so that one teacher covers math and science and the other reading and social studies would provide some benefits.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22173306794031149212015-06-12T09:56:34.568-07:002015-06-12T09:56:34.568-07:00I don't think truth in advertising makes this ...I don't think truth in advertising makes this OK for neighborhood schools because most families have no other available choices. Other public schools in the Green Lake area are full. There should be a standard program available to every student with option schools providing alternative programs. <br /><br /><br /><br />Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-45331034686476928422015-06-12T09:03:37.298-07:002015-06-12T09:03:37.298-07:00Again, all I'm asking for is truth in advertis...Again, all I'm asking for is truth in advertising, both from the district side and the school side. I think especially if a school is a neighborhood school and yet is a Creative Option school (or part of the City's Innovative school program) that it is CLEARLY stated to potential/incoming parents.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-3368617045727380342015-06-12T08:12:24.397-07:002015-06-12T08:12:24.397-07:00I have found the singapore approach to be a great ...I have found the singapore approach to be a great thing to use at home, my own child is using it. However as a teacher it is not working as well whole group because of how the lessons are written and the idea that kids all learn exactly the same way. If I were to teach the lessons as is, I would be lucky to keep 5% of my kids engaged. I dropped EDM long ago and have been pulling from multiple sources including the older singapore materials. If i were to just teach MIF my kids would have a lot of procedures down but little to no flexible thinking and problem solving skills. no single curriculum is ever going to work. Teachers are going to have to keep on working hard i guess. <br /><br />-singapore at homeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-82922924744991110332015-06-12T07:32:40.151-07:002015-06-12T07:32:40.151-07:00n,
I have found the opposite to be true of balf. ...n,<br /><br />I have found the opposite to be true of balf. Working with her more recently I have found her to be incredibly knowledgeable about child development and learning. She is pushing teachers be better mathematicians themselves and holds high standards for teachers responsibility to reach every student regardless of their ability. The math education in our building has increased dramatically since working with her and her colleges from the UW. I guess with time everyone can learn and grow even teachers. <br /><br />-RHteacherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15940213791349215052015-06-12T06:50:40.684-07:002015-06-12T06:50:40.684-07:00N,
Yes. That is why many parents who care and mat...N,<br /><br />Yes. That is why many parents who care and math folks support a Singapore math based approach. It's because of the focus on numeracy early, the core of math, and arethmatic is then more deeply and completely understood. This basic math is what has been missing for our students since reform math started, and has hurt our students, as well as our professionals. It is a shame principals and staff are giving up so quickly. <br /><br />Those who can afford to supplement at home or with tutors do because the foundations of math have not been taught for a long time.<br /><br />West ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33169555905619150072015-06-11T23:39:59.325-07:002015-06-11T23:39:59.325-07:00Lynn, so all classes are split regardless of numbe...Lynn, so all classes are split regardless of numbers? That is wrong. APP folks are used to split classes. We have been the younger and the older but it only happens due to enrollment. They all worked out fine and we wouldn't bat an eye if we had another split in ES. But to split for split sake unless it was to aid differentiation I would question that and if it is just for grins I would strongly condone that.<br /><br />WMS ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71818234097939194332015-06-11T21:49:32.766-07:002015-06-11T21:49:32.766-07:00Let's talk about Green Lake Elementary's C...Let's talk about Green Lake Elementary's Creative Approach application. Green Lake apparently has had quite a few split grade classes. (The NSAP was not kind to this school.) Several years ago, in response to parental complaints about split grade class assignments, the principal put all (post-K) students in split grade classes. This is their creative approach. A school with an assignment area should not be allowed to do this. There should be a standard program at any elementary school that is a default assignment. It should include (whenever possible) assigning children to classrooms by grade. <br /><br />Thoughts?Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57780591157051656192015-06-11T21:43:52.016-07:002015-06-11T21:43:52.016-07:00What's more, MIF is not aligned perfectly. At ...What's more, MIF is not aligned perfectly. At first grade, it goes beyond. I ignored it and taught to my best ability the common core staying with MIF. If this is real math and we want kids to really understand the math as a foundation for high level math, I'm determined not to rush to be really teach it well. And you know what? Most of my kids love it and they are way beyond what I believed or they believed they could do.<br /><br />I had an experience with Balf a long, long time ago when she was still teaching and her knowledge of kids and learning disorders was shallow to non-existent yet she was very opinionated and frozen in her views. I was surprised to find she had moved into education at the university level. But then, remembering some of my profs when I went through, maybe I'm not so surprised. More networking to get in that expertise I think. Although I could be wrong. Dan, good observation.<br /><br />Back to MIF: my kids took MAP test this week. Map test still tests the mile-wide math knowledge over limited content of computation, place and number sense. I wonder how that will alter results from previous years' scores. Is MAP going away?<br /><br />Also, if some schools are using other curricula including Envisions (is that it?), what happens to kids who transfer? My sense is that MIF is very different in its emphasis and goals for learning. So where are we? Back to what's comfortable for teachers? Or do we stick with the program that we adopted because it supposedly set a foundation for higher math later on? <br /><br />People better make up their minds. <br /><br />I'm still with you, Dan. Dept. of Ed is very different from Dept. of Math. It's all about the content for me. And I'm not a math person but I'm sure learning!<br /><br />Just got to you, sleeper. I totally agree! <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />nnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18626937250352165022015-06-11T21:22:28.488-07:002015-06-11T21:22:28.488-07:00Also, neither does the principal who also admits i...Also, neither does the principal who also admits it.<br />nnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-3369378299925661642015-06-11T21:21:58.460-07:002015-06-11T21:21:58.460-07:00I haven't read the previous posts because two ...I haven't read the previous posts because two of these issues are right up my alley and I have been a little frustrated over them recently myself.<br /><br />We have a BLT but it is controlled by the principal and the parents on it do everything and are rubber stamps for the principal. I believe teachers make better choices for their schools working with parents but without parents have the deciding vote. Our principal grooms certain teachers, gets them on the BLT, and makes sure that the BLT directs the course. Supposed to be advisory but not. Many young teachers who don't get what's going on so veteran teachers - those the principal is actively trying to get rid of - have little influence. It's a fact.<br /><br />Second, I've finally figured out MIF. For a long time, I was conflicted to say the least. The first grade curriculum stinks. It is wordy and confusing. If a teacher sticks with it and tries - really tries - to understand the goal of the program, I think it is great. Going out on a limb but I believe it is all about number sense, visualizing and internalizing place value. If I'm wrong (Lihn Co?), tell me. But my assistant and I both think our first graders really understand math and number relationships in a way we never before seen.<br /><br />I think many teachers (elementary mainly) simply aren't math people. Neither was I and this took a huge amount of reflecting and conversation. But I am now a believer. No more mile wide and inch deep; now this program really is a mile deep and an inch wide. I think elementary teachers want to teach the easy stuff: money, time, shapes, patterning. But my kids and I look at numbers quite differently now. I'm convinced and I think they will go on with a much, much richer understanding of number relationships. Esp. if the second grade teacher is on board as well. Not sure that's going to happen.<br /><br />Teachers don't know the math either. My assistant is a math person and she and I talked every single afternoon about what the lesson was meant to achieve. Elementary teachers haven't quite caught up to the rigor of math teaching themselves. It is a new day and if we want our kids to get it, we better make sure we get it first. <br /><br />I'm worried because at my school the math committee is already talking bringing in new curricula and I'm against it. The primary math person on the committee knows NOTHING about math and readily admits it. Unbelievable.<br /><br />That's my 2 bits. nnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14084288848661557162015-06-11T19:58:29.602-07:002015-06-11T19:58:29.602-07:00It’s appalling to hear your school principle lie t...It’s appalling to hear your school principle lie to parents faces when asked by parents if Pathfinder Creative Approach School Application will includes a math waiver to not use MIF? The respond from our trusted principle is “No, math has nothing to do with the emotional learning is what we are after”. So it looks like yet again we are lie to and this is suppose to build trust? Get involve parents and know your rights as parents in your kids school. <br />PFPtransparencynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-60821598414204029032015-06-11T18:38:35.299-07:002015-06-11T18:38:35.299-07:00WSDWG you are right on the lessening of the progra...<br /><br />WSDWG you are right on the lessening of the program but I don't think that spectrum had much to do with MS as it is still being offered at the other MSs and sounds like others are reporting that it is even stronger. (I would agree that it certainly had a factor on L@L though.) <br /><br />But again I don't think WMS has cracked. Perhaps it could when the principal has no understanding of the program (or AOL) and yet is opposed to it as segregation and seems to think changing Spectrum will make it more isolated; and yet was hired to teach the most abilities diverse schools in the nation. <br /><br />Raise your hand if you were on that hiring committee. Did HC even get discussed? <br /><br />WMS Parent<br /><br />WMS ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89195480696709901572015-06-11T16:29:37.051-07:002015-06-11T16:29:37.051-07:00@realist & WMS Parent: The splits have seriou...@realist & WMS Parent: The splits have seriously weakened, diluted and compromised the APP/HCC program at WMS. It's nowhere near where it was for my older kid, and the Common Core alignment is compromising the LA/SS class even more. So, if HIMS and Jane Adams haven't caught up yet, then they how far must they both be in comparison with where old WMS program was only a few short years ago? Besides certain classroom teachers, I don't see a lot of support for HCC from principals and administrators. Unfortunately I think the rapid growth in the program caused largely by Spectrum's demise has give people a false sense of confidence that their kids are being properly served, when they really aren't. Folmer's comment regarding not being certain that Algebra is appropriate for 6th graders shows her cards. When would arbitrarily holding a kid back in math be a good thing? So much for the future of Avanced Learning in SPS, I'm afraid. WSDWG Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38838117895207930942015-06-11T16:19:13.627-07:002015-06-11T16:19:13.627-07:00Melissa, I was referring to your comment
"I...Melissa, I was referring to your comment <br /><br />"I only reported what Pathfinder said. Other commenters had their own take on Ms. Balf and her work there. I said nothing about her or her work, just that I thought if Pathfinder had been doing this for six years, they should be able to continue." <br /><br /> This made it sound like you were quoting teachers not parents and I wanted it to be clear!<br />-teacherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27222000000493535732015-06-11T15:40:51.132-07:002015-06-11T15:40:51.132-07:00realist, where did those kids come from thin air? ...realist, where did those kids come from thin air? The first split happened to WMS. It has been split and did not crack. Some kids will also be going to Madison next years alternate pathway. Not this coming year but the year after their will be more kids in HCC then in any other program at WMS... <br /><br />WMS ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19656213667283969692015-06-11T15:09:01.468-07:002015-06-11T15:09:01.468-07:00APP/HCC at HIMS and JAMS are splits - first, WMS w...APP/HCC at HIMS and JAMS are splits - first, WMS was split to form HIMS APP, with some teachers and students coming from WMS; then, JAMS APP/HCC was created by splitting the HIMS cohort. There was a weakening or "cracking" of the program with each split, it just hasn't caught up with WMS yet.<br /><br />-realistAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68936961922848487792015-06-11T13:59:18.996-07:002015-06-11T13:59:18.996-07:00Sorry, didn't finish editing- the "they&q...Sorry, didn't finish editing- the "they" who is coming out of elementary school unprepared is our kids.<br /><br />-sleeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5632280510702467862015-06-11T13:51:31.778-07:002015-06-11T13:51:31.778-07:00snarky teacher, I think this one is hard because w...snarky teacher, I think this one is hard because we parents, and especially we parents with a math background, are aware that elementary school teachers generally are not very strong in math. We also can tell that they are not coming out of elementary school prepared enough for higher level math, and that this has gotten worse with discovery math. This is why people might get uppity about what credential exactly a lion of math pedagogy has- because we see too few people with actual math backgrounds influencing pedagogy in the district. I wouldn't mind a teacher who was strong in math picking and choosing curricula for math(we have had a couple who could do this, and it was great), just like I don't currently mind the way most of my students' teachers monkey with the language arts curriculum. They, almost to a person, studied and favored language arts all the way through high school and college, and were typically strong in it all the way through. Not so for math, and so they typically have less ability to create curriculum, especially one that works for students who are strong or weak in math. But they often do, and most of the time it is for the worse.<br /><br />-sleeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38084112139916023082015-06-11T13:40:50.323-07:002015-06-11T13:40:50.323-07:00Snarky, I did say a parent said it. Twice.
I hav...Snarky, I did say a parent said it. Twice.<br /><br />I have no problem with teachers/schools using/supplementing curriculum. I didn't say that.<br /><br />What I am saying - what the overarching theme is - that parents have a RIGHT to know this is happening and why and the district and school have a duty to tell incoming parents about it. What's so hard about that?<br /><br />As for being sued, been there, done that. Won. <br /><br />Again, people are not clearly reading what I write. I know the boundaries of what I can and cannot say and try to be quite clear on what I know factually versus opinion and I am clear in when someone makes a statement. I can quote people whether their statements are true or not.<br /><br />My intent is not to hurt anyone but to bring the clearest picture of what is happening in our district. Vampires are not the only ones who don't like sunlight.<br />Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.com