tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post6937487719009837517..comments2024-03-29T02:41:52.718-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Carol Burton will be back at GarfieldMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7832514060096595952016-05-03T14:01:54.720-07:002016-05-03T14:01:54.720-07:00Is Judge Finkle's ruling posted? Hearing trans...Is Judge Finkle's ruling posted? Hearing transcript available? Where? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-48865965096283096242016-05-03T12:33:34.335-07:002016-05-03T12:33:34.335-07:00Has Ms. Burton returned to the classroom? I see i...Has Ms. Burton returned to the classroom? I see it's been a few days.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9711007058502429432016-04-30T10:50:59.335-07:002016-04-30T10:50:59.335-07:00Hey Johnny:
Again, that's the SSD Labor Relat...Hey Johnny:<br /><br />Again, that's the SSD Labor Relations Department: All "love to fire people" and NO PLAN except to let others follow thru in their own sweet time.<br /><br />Ask most District employees and you will find we are treated as enemies in LR.<br /><br />The 'culture of lawlessness' begins and ends there the last few years. Began with MGJ.Dave W.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10093703810010642182016-04-30T01:04:23.925-07:002016-04-30T01:04:23.925-07:00Folks, the judge seemed quite clear and made a dec...Folks, the judge seemed quite clear and made a decision similar to those I’ve made/seen under the guidance of a competent HR manager in an ethical enterprise that attracts and retains higher than average people. <br /><br />“We are disappointed . . . the district believed it was important to send a clear message that student safety is a top priority”. <br /><br />A couple of glasses of wine . . . a suspension would make sense. The judge was clear and severe in the length of the suspension he thought reasonable for an “outstanding”, hard to replace teacher who violated policy: one year. <br />I understand that Larry was made to look like one of the Stooges when asked what he would have done to prevent the “inappropriate touching”. Sounds like the judge realized that a teacher cannot be fully responsible, before or after the fact, for preventing every scenario of bad student behavior imaginable during a24 hour day. A glass of wine does not impair. Add to that, someone kinda sort of didn’t think it important to tell the teacher that there was a student with a history of bad behavior, and you end up with my perception that Larry and his administration are not thorough, ineffective and most of all intentional in creating an environment of fear and uncertainty rather than a safe learning and work environment. Sounds a bit like a group of bullies? <br /><br />So the judge looked at all the critical facts and decided the teacher had been punished enough. His decision lines up nicely with sentencing standards used in courts. Seems like the punishment is about right . . . and the best message to help expose the personal ethics of Larry and those hands who warm armchairs downtown. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-2091641670395592902016-04-29T13:10:42.806-07:002016-04-29T13:10:42.806-07:00Much has been implied by the Seattle Public School...Much has been implied by the Seattle Public School District about Carol Burton’s rule violations on the New Orleans field trip jeopardizing the safety of the students in her choir. <br /><br />But the greater violation – by far – is that of the School District. The District knew about the past history of one of Carol’s students – a history that included this student’s having been expelled from a previous school for sexual harassment. The administrators from this previous school, in fact, went out of their way to state that they believed the student was likely to re-offend if sufficient interventions and treatment were not implemented. On the field trip in question with Carol’s Garfield choir, the student again – as predicted – sexually harassed several other students. <br /> <br />Somehow, this information about the student’s past was not disclosed to Carol or other relevant staff at Garfield. This failure by the District jeopardized the safety of all of the participants on the field trip – as was admitted by Supt. Larry Nyland under oath. It was also a clear violation of the collective bargaining agreement between the District and the Seattle Education Association. Specifically, the district’s failure to inform Carol violated Article III, Section G of the current binding contract, signed by both Superintendent Larry Nyland and senior administrator Brent Jones. Further, this reckless failure by the District also was a clear violation of state law, specifically, RCW 28a.225.330 subsection 6.<br /> <br />In short, the District violated the contract, broke the law, and in so doing put the safety of all the field trip participants at risk. People who earn six-figure salaries and knowingly violate state law thereby threatening student safety might seem to warrant some measure of accountability – an accountability to which none have been held thus far. But given these facts, the claim by the District somehow to be concerned for student welfare or student safety strains credulity.concerned teachernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6566696762538480302016-04-29T11:30:58.666-07:002016-04-29T11:30:58.666-07:00Oh, and Melissa, I'll be very interested to re...Oh, and Melissa, I'll be very interested to read your writeup. I'm not in the loop anymore but I admit I'm curious just how far down the rabbit hole goes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50022635779302930132016-04-29T11:15:04.302-07:002016-04-29T11:15:04.302-07:00Anonymous, it's a public school in a nearby di...Anonymous, it's a public school in a nearby district and we're only able to send him out of district because my husband is a teacher there (which is why I'm being cagey about naming it). If we hadn't been able to do that I think we would have started by looking at Thurgood Marshall because I've heard better things about it, but I don't have any first-hand knowledge about it. I'm relieved for myself but still so angry about all the other kids who are still stuck in a bad situation, so I really feel for you. Sorry.<br /><br />Former StevensAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6705631672579372062016-04-28T22:05:31.214-07:002016-04-28T22:05:31.214-07:00Former Steven's are you able to share the new ...Former Steven's are you able to share the new school? On the hunt for a school that can provide support like that. Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84035804024359088592016-04-28T20:11:05.248-07:002016-04-28T20:11:05.248-07:00Probably not surprisingly, the District seems to b...Probably not surprisingly, the District seems to be dragging their feet on reinstating Carol Burton at Garfield, which in my opinion should have happened immediately after the court case finished. The choir students, after a year of ineffectual or non-existent leadership - they have essentially been teaching themselves - are disappointed and angry. They will be having a press conference tomorrow to discuss the situation.<br /><br />I’m trying to wrap my head around the fact that the District apparently had no plan in place in the event they lost their case. They should have been ready to go with some kind of response.Johnny Calcagnohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12198948404356096884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34429532414418051822016-04-28T17:14:57.806-07:002016-04-28T17:14:57.806-07:00Katie
That is what Labor Relations does, there ar...Katie<br /><br />That is what Labor Relations does, there are 3 times as many FTE's there as there were just a few years ago and the recently departed "Director" bragged to ME many times that he loved "to fire people".<br /><br />He was only here a year and a half but the taxpayers will be cleaning up his mess for years.Dave W.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-78294381293368797672016-04-28T15:56:03.868-07:002016-04-28T15:56:03.868-07:00Former Stevens, I'm going to do a write-up on ...Former Stevens, I'm going to do a write-up on the meeting but the failures at the administrative level are jaw-dropping (including, as you stated, no records at that level of misbehavior.)Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29951912761548417592016-04-28T15:44:34.350-07:002016-04-28T15:44:34.350-07:00I have four kids in SPS and almost 20 years of the...I have four kids in SPS and almost 20 years of the endless drama of truly terrible HR decisions. <br /><br />There are always a handful of dramatic events every year and at least one truly terrible each year. At some point, we should just being to refer to the academic years by the HR disastrous overreaction to excellence. <br /><br />Martin Floe<br />John Greenberg<br />Carol Burton<br />David Elliot<br /><br />At some point, it really beings to look and feel like there is a dedicated person in HR, whose job it is to pick a small problem and turn it into community outrage. <br /><br />Katienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83813149548924162692016-04-28T13:36:11.891-07:002016-04-28T13:36:11.891-07:00Jet City Mom, the form that you linked to is from ...Jet City Mom, the form that you linked to is from Orange County, Florida. I'm pretty sure I remember from the investigative report that the chaperones and Ms. Burton (and possibly the students?) signed an agreement that they would not be using alcohol during the trip.<br />Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16260807460417787614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62453423177134160932016-04-28T13:15:33.505-07:002016-04-28T13:15:33.505-07:00Thanks for that. For the record, he is doing much ...Thanks for that. For the record, he is doing much better now, and the things that worked weren't magical:<br /><br />- A school with a consistent philosophy of discipline (they use Positive Discipline but I almost think anything would have worked if it was consistently applied)<br />- Consistent communication with parents<br />- A class size of sixteen<br />- An aide in the classroom<br />- A consulting behaviorist to provide guidance to everyone involved<br />- A counselor to work with him on awareness of his emotions and being able to verbalize them<br />- An extra staff member to take him out to recess with a small group to practice what he'd learned for a few weeks before throwing him back to full recess<br /><br />His new school, as I'm sure you can guess from the list, isn't in the Seattle District.<br /><br />In my opinion, yes, a lot of this is on admin but also important is the fact that we don't have the funding to have class sizes small enough or enough extra hands to help out when kids need extra help. Both are critical pieces.<br /><br />Former StevensAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41884170111948612202016-04-28T12:58:43.641-07:002016-04-28T12:58:43.641-07:00I apologize. I've been forming opinions withou...I apologize. I've been forming opinions without adequate information. I hope your current school is working out for your family.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24873295488785530532016-04-28T12:56:40.926-07:002016-04-28T12:56:40.926-07:00Schools are provided buses for sports events. Som...Schools are provided buses for sports events. Some schools try to save that money for equipment, etc and instead rely on carpools. Carpools can be driven by parents and students. Typically, a bus will take the kids to an event and then there will be carpools home. The one problem with taking the school buses is that you have to leave the home school at 1 PM so the students can end up losing a lot of class time and have long waits at the hosting school for the game. There are not enough school buses to provide a more timely bus ride.<br /><br />HPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35939400201559008962016-04-28T12:49:57.297-07:002016-04-28T12:49:57.297-07:00Lynn,
You're assuming the school is trying to...Lynn,<br /><br />You're assuming the school is trying to change the behavior. My son was at Stevens and he was on track to being one of those 'bad kids' - I didn't even start getting notification that he was being sent to the office until a couple weeks in (and once I got a discipline report that covered three days' worth of incidents - that was super useful). The only strategies the school used when he was acting out were sending him out of the classroom (with 27 kids at the start of the year, some others of whom had their own issues) to the resource room or sometimes to the office to hang out with the secretaries. When I met with Ms. Archer (after asking for a couple months) all she had for me was to suggest we get him enrolled in Special Ed and it was going to take another month and a half to even start the process (this was in December and my son was screaming and hitting me every day for about twenty minutes when it was time to leave the house to go to school). I promise I was as involved as a person with a full-time job could be (yes, I chaperoned all the field trips), and we pulled him from the school when the daily reports his teacher sent us (which have to have been a significant investment of time on her part) indicated that he was really having no good days at all. I got no other communications from anyone in administration at all. If we hadn't had the ability to pull him out HE'D be one of 'those kids' now and I don't know what else I could have done. Yes, it was shocking; it was the only thing I thought about for months, and I had no control over what happened to him for the six hours a day he spent there. If you don't actually know what the situation is, I suggest considering defaulting to sympathy.<br /><br />Former StevensAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20218887477545859692016-04-28T12:30:03.582-07:002016-04-28T12:30:03.582-07:00Melissa,
I know most parents aren't available...Melissa,<br /><br />I know most parents aren't available to be at school. I'd consider the kids at Stevens to be in crisis though - and would react to it in that way. Are they supporting the school in changing their child's behavior? If this has been going on all year, it doesn't seem like they are. <br /><br />As for the Garfield student, if they could afford to send him to private school, they likely have more flexibility than most.<br /><br />I guess I'm just expressing how shocked I'd be if my child's behavior caused so much trouble at school. Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15391908125007664282016-04-28T11:33:22.177-07:002016-04-28T11:33:22.177-07:00I believe Ms. Burton apologized at the very beginn...I believe Ms. Burton apologized at the very beginning of this saga in a news conference. I know she wrote a hand-written apology letter to the choir students a few weeks after New Orleans, and it was read out loud at the spring choir family BBQ and concert. That was a real apology letter to the students and families in the choir. I believe in various comments she has made over the past year she did not just regret the actions but actually spoke remorsefully of her errors.<br />GHSmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86935601840571240932016-04-28T11:17:34.994-07:002016-04-28T11:17:34.994-07:00Deciding whether to inform the school was NOT with...Deciding whether to inform the school was NOT within the authority of the district staff person. By not informing Garfield staff, the district violated the CBA and state law, as pointed out in testimony and as the judge noted in his decision. Yes, I have read it.<br /><br />Melissa is right, Ms. Burton stated that if she were required to take him, she would have, and she would have had a plan to protect the boy and other students. <br /><br /><br />GarfieldMomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-26128510061096009842016-04-28T10:37:55.610-07:002016-04-28T10:37:55.610-07:00In this thread, and in past ones on the subject, w... In this thread, and in past ones on the subject, we hear, if only the district had told Burton about his past, she would never have taken him and this wouldn't have happened."<br /><br />No, that's what others have said but the record, Ms. Burton's own words from the investigation show that she would have wanted to know about the student's past issues but that she still would have considered taking him. You can read it for yourself. <br /><br />If you read the investigation, you can see what the student's mother did and didn't do. <br /><br />Lynn, c'mon. Most parents work and cannot be at recess at their child's school. It's up to the school to do its job.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39078918779421503072016-04-28T10:23:34.982-07:002016-04-28T10:23:34.982-07:00The big question here is whether the student's...The big question here is whether the student's behavior is related to a disability. If so, they must be provided with the support needed to participate in school activities. If it's not related to a disability, I think it should be possible to exclude them as a disciplinary or precautionary measure. <br /><br />It's not just the district staff member who knew this boy presented a safety risk - his parents did too. What were they thinking sending him on that field trip?<br /><br />If the kids at Stevens or the Garfield groper were mine, I'd be chaperoning every field trip and volunteering during recess until the issue was resolved. Where are the parents? Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81915441376257811972016-04-28T10:02:43.102-07:002016-04-28T10:02:43.102-07:00Its interesting to see the contradictions on the b...Its interesting to see the contradictions on the blog this week. <br /><br />On one hand, we have a 5th Grade Camp trip that is cancelled because a couple of students are unable to maintain appropriate behavior and the school has been unsuccessful at keeping them inside the lines. Over in that thread, we have parents repeating over and over again that school activities are for all, and if all can't go, no one can go.<br /><br />Meanwhile, over here, we have a high school kid who had a past history of bad behavior. No one told the teacher, and she took the relatively new to her class student on a trip. His bad behavior led to the uncovering of her bad behavior and she is fired, then reinstated. In this thread, and in past ones on the subject, we hear, if only the district had told Burton about his past, she would never have taken him and this wouldn't have happened. <br /><br />Wait, are school activities for all, and if all can't go, no one can go? Or do we still actually have the ability to enforce punishments for bad behavior? <br /><br />Which Way?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-3093193425832687542016-04-28T08:16:37.206-07:002016-04-28T08:16:37.206-07:00And the parade of naivete and denial continues.......And the parade of naivete and denial continues....<br /><br />I've got an idea folks: Do a better job of raising kids so they don't grope people or sneak out of cabins at night to go have sex with other students. How about that? <br /><br />Or what about this: If you drop a known groper into a group of unsuspecting kids, how about informing someone, at least, of the groper's past or propensities? If not for that incident, there'd have been no firing of Burton, as anyone with a pulse knows.<br /><br />Burton broke a rule. She didn't grope or allegedly rape anyone, nor did she get drunk. Regardless, "tough on crime" SPS went full CYA JackAss and threw her under the bus to make an example. The firing was overkill times ten when suspension, discipline, involuntary leave, counseling, or even rehab were on the table. If poor judgment is enough to fire teachers, close down SPS today. <br /><br />"But rules are rules" is always the mindless mantra of the untouched. <br /><br />WSDWG<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8106920683568477402016-04-28T07:02:18.396-07:002016-04-28T07:02:18.396-07:00If field trips and sports participation are an int...If field trips and sports participation are an interest, then the school can make it work within legal guidelines.<br />If they need to hire a bus, the kids can hold bakesales & carwashes to do so.<br />They dont need charter buses, yellow buses go to the same place.<br />Since Garfield has a history of employing teachers and counselors with questionable judgement ( including principal & vice- principal), I wouldn't expect discipline to be very meaningful. <br /><br />It concerns me that some dont feel its reasonable for chaperones and parents to refrain from substances when supervising children.<br />Supervising children including high school students requires ATLEAST as much thought and attention as driving.<br />Isnt it prohibited on the form? ( Apparently not, perhaps that should e changed)<br />https://www.ocps.net/lc/southwest/ejy/parents/Documents/chaperoneapplication.pdfJet City momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14804841958585043967noreply@blogger.com