tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post7068938979928273858..comments2024-03-29T02:41:52.718-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Class Size in Seattle Public SchoolsMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72723807854582412012009-11-03T20:33:54.789-08:002009-11-03T20:33:54.789-08:00"I'm sure the commute from Seward Park to..."I'm sure the commute from Seward Park to JSIS is better than from Magnolia. "<br /><br />Yet, MGJ didn't buy a house in Seward Park, she rented. <br /><br />It just makes one wonder if she is planning on staying long term....or not.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63716920583327036602009-11-03T15:42:08.707-08:002009-11-03T15:42:08.707-08:00Why is this a problem for some of you to understan...<i> Why is this a problem for some of you to understand??</i><br /><br />I don't think anyone has a problem with MGJ taking advantage of what New School has to offer. I think some of the comments about all of this have more to do with her lack of support for alternative programs and her on-the-record opinion about class size. <br /><br />MGJ wants public school pre-k for her child but this program is only available for a select few. If this is an important public-school option, why isn't it offered everywhere? And did I read somewhere that all-day kindergarten at that school is free? If so, why is this not an option at ALL schools? And the school is famous for small class sizes . . .but that's not important, is it?<br /><br />No one here condemns any parent for making the best choice for their child and that includes, for the most part, the decision to go to private school or Shoreline or whatever. However, MGJ wants centralized control of schools, with cookie-cutter programs, and has sought something out for her child WITHIN the system she's been dismantling.<br /><br />It's not hard to understand what she's doing and I wouldn't be surprised to see, should she want her child to get into a different program when older, say something like JSIS, her renting a home within that "guaranteed assignment" area. I would be surprised, however, if she was with this district that long.<br /><br />stuStuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11769983958729170219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43968153674286153072009-11-03T14:43:20.060-08:002009-11-03T14:43:20.060-08:00I'm sure the commute from Seward Park to JSIS ...I'm sure the commute from Seward Park to JSIS is better than from Magnolia. One of the benefits of renting, and one of the reasons to do so when you move to a new city, is that you can move easily to another neighborhood once you figure out things like commute times. I doubt that's a conspiracy either.TechyMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04650916001250022778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46321983121412861082009-11-03T11:51:54.662-08:002009-11-03T11:51:54.662-08:00As far as I know, Graham Hill and SS are the ONLY ...As far as I know, Graham Hill and SS are the ONLY public South Seattle schools that offer pre-K, not to be confused with Head Start or in-school building daycare preschools, like the YWCA at Dunlap. <br /><br />I know-we looked when our daughter was that age. We tried, but did not get into SS for pre-K. Rather than seeing some stupid conspiracy, it makes perfect sense to me that a person with a pre-K aged child and a vested interest in having their child in public school would look at SS. Not to mention, PROXIMITY to her home! <br />We were actually closer to other public schools, but they didn't have PRE-K. Why is this a problem for some of you to understand??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24668890460599937252009-11-02T16:31:41.065-08:002009-11-02T16:31:41.065-08:00Isn't MGJ's daughter in pre-k? There aren...Isn't MGJ's daughter in pre-k? There aren't a lot of SPS schools that offer pre-k. Would she be getting flak if her daughter were in a private pre-k program? Also, I remember when I looked at South Shore's pre-k that it didn't guarantee that you got a K spot. You still had to go through open enrollment for K. Maybe that has changed since last year, or will change for next year?TechyMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04650916001250022778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88826076940404268012009-11-02T15:57:45.005-08:002009-11-02T15:57:45.005-08:00One of the reasons I chose Whittier was that at th...One of the reasons I chose Whittier was that at the time they were using I-728 money to have the 1st & 2nd grades at 20 kids or less (in the regular ed classes). I wasn't as disappointed that we were wait-listed for Spectrum when there were 17 kids in her 1st grade class and I believe 18 or 19 in her 2nd grade. Even in 3rd grade we only had 17 kids. It amazes me how different things are in just a few years. (My kid is now in 7th grade.) I feel very lucky to have had the class sizes we did.<br /><br />And one of the reasons I chose Salmon Bay for middle school was their 6th grade language arts setup - they have a 2-hour block with only 20 kids for that class. The rest of the classes have 30 or so.h2o girlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12512408535354009657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77465535560469176402009-11-02T12:37:14.667-08:002009-11-02T12:37:14.667-08:00If Seattle funded Central Admin at the same per ch...If Seattle funded Central Admin at the same per child rate as the Olympia school district..... that would free up 21 million dollars annually. That could fund a lot of decentralized improvements.dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81441040367230644422009-11-02T12:34:49.448-08:002009-11-02T12:34:49.448-08:00A good place to start ....
would be decentralizat...A good place to start ....<br /><br />would be decentralization. The Supe's plans do not work, if we are talking about all schools being quality schools. In fact WASL data shows Franklin, Rainier Beach, and Sealth scored considerably worse in 2009 than in 2008.<br /><br />Her bureaucratic central administration chews up lots of dollars and produces ZERO for results in far too many cases.<br /><br />DECENTRALIZATION is the place to start. <a href="http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2009/11/04/10ouchi_ep.h29.html?tkn=UQLF7c7KXJko78wAEtfpjffQ86dJTtdNulrO" rel="nofollow"> Read this from Ed Week</a>.dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62691487436363989552009-11-02T10:43:12.824-08:002009-11-02T10:43:12.824-08:00QA/Magnolia is bursting at the seams because of a ...QA/Magnolia is bursting at the seams because of a baby boom in that area. Its elementary schools are very full, with multiple kindergarten (and other) classes of 25 kids and up. That's why the District is talking about reopening Old Hay next year as a K-5. Sure there are good schools in QA/Mag, but they currently do not offer the smaller class sizes (or free preschool and free K, apparently) that the foundation-funded New School/South Shore offers.<br /><br />What's so "ridiculous" about the head of the Seattle School District realizing that she is politically obligated to send her child to a Seattle public school, and realizing that if she stays in her current neighborhood (once Magnolia) her own Strategic Plan would pretty much restrict her options to two (possibly four) schools -- Blaine and Lawton -- that she may not want for her child?<br /><br />What's so insane about her exercising her own school "choice" for her daughter -- right before she and the District lay down a new rule (SAP) that restricts choice for everyone else?<br /><br />Hypocritical, perhaps, but not crazy.<br /><br />I find it plausible.<br /><br />And as Chris and others have pointed out, the school she chose for her child has a number of features that she has publicly or through her policy decisions, dismissed as not valuable -- such as smaller class sizes and alternative schools.<br /><br />If, as she says in the Seattle Child article, "a school is not good enough for my child, it’s not good enough for someone else’s child," then why isn't she actively making sure that all the schools in the District are "good enough"? <br /><br />Reducing class sizes would be a good place to start.gavrochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11336376340965305696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36631541697047196302009-11-02T10:26:52.482-08:002009-11-02T10:26:52.482-08:00lak367, the story about your daughter is sad. I h...lak367, the story about your daughter is sad. I hope things get better this year. She sounds a bit like my eldest, so I have to put in a plug for our north end options "formerly-known-as-alternative:" Thornton Creek, AS1, Salmon Bay. These schools share two things that can help "easily overlooked" kids - a extra emphasis on a supportive social environment and more opportunities for the kids to take part in the ownership of their education. By the latter I mean classrooms where everyone is expected to do what they need to be doing, sometimes without explicit adult guidance. Even in my youngest's (K!) class they are learning to "work independently or in small groups" while the teacher works with other small groups or individuals. Obviously this pays off later in the ease of differentiation.<br /><br />So we-all have big class sizes too, but it's worth checking out at open-enrollment time. In the meantime, talk to your child and her teacher NOW so that at least she has the freedom to use her "bored" time productively - go to the library, find a book, work on a project of her choosing, etc.Chris S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17016898261120819596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43218445663980672009-11-02T10:12:02.221-08:002009-11-02T10:12:02.221-08:00reader, adhoc,
Whether or not it's the reason ...reader, adhoc,<br />Whether or not it's the reason she moved, the fact that the superintendent chose a school with unusually small class sizes for her daughter tells us even she doesn't believe the "research" she spews as truth.Chris S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17016898261120819596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79432086625682009102009-11-02T09:46:46.077-08:002009-11-02T09:46:46.077-08:00lak367, I'm with you on an income tax, but as ...lak367, I'm with you on an income tax, but as Dorothy was saying on another thread, the property taxes don't necessarily keep going up and down with the assessed value of your house. It's only if your house goes up in value *more than the average* for the area that the tax goes up. <br /><br />"The County Assessor calculates the tax rate necessary by dividing the total levy amount by the amount of taxable property in the district. This number is expressed in terms of a dollar rate per $1,000 of valuation." http://www.leg.wa.gov/Senate/Committees/WM/Documents/Publications/BudgetGuides/2009/TaxGuide09.pdf <br /><br />Thus, it's what *percentage* of the taxable property in the district you own that determines your share of taxes. Your *relative* valuation matters, not your absolute valuation.<br /><br />Helen Schinskehschinskehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10316478950862562594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86156839351683845672009-11-02T09:18:43.358-08:002009-11-02T09:18:43.358-08:00I want an income tax! Lots of people recognize tha...I want an income tax! Lots of people recognize that it would be superior to the current system. We just don't have any political leaders with the guts to make necessary reforms.<br /><br />It makes a whole heck of lot more sense to tie your tax rate to the actual money you have available than to your home value, which can escalate beyond your control. If I paid $200K for my house and that's what my income level supports, then the fact that my house is now worth $600K is completely irrelevant to me, unless of course I sell it. Asking me to keep paying double-digit percent increases in my property tax bill is a joke- my income isn't going up at that same rate. At some point, I can picture the property tax bill making it unaffordable for us to stay in our house. I don't know how seniors on fixed incomes do it. And I do find it *interesting* that now that home values declined, the legislature has found a way to keep out property tax bills going up nonetheless!!<br /><br />Anyway, end of tangential rant. But the point remains the same: our current tax system in WA is absurd. And I'm personally worn out by levies tied to my artificially inflated home value. I almost voted against the low income housing levy this year simply because I'm sick of this system. We need reform.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85859502343901564412009-11-02T08:53:21.194-08:002009-11-02T08:53:21.194-08:00"I guess I'm more surprised they haven..."I guess I'm more surprised they haven't bought a house (it's a good market now)after two years."<br /><br />My guess is she isn't planning on staying long term, so why buy a house??anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-52620236606524530162009-11-02T08:42:18.955-08:002009-11-02T08:42:18.955-08:00Let's not forget that class size has EVERTHING...Let's not forget that class size has EVERTHING to do with how we fund education in this state. No one wants an income tax to fund education (which is how a number of states do it) so instead we rely on a sales tax, levies and crossed fingers.Moosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14000546753926356080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70801210966856393232009-11-02T08:10:30.048-08:002009-11-02T08:10:30.048-08:00People move for all sorts of reasons. I don't...People move for all sorts of reasons. I don't read anything into it. I guess I'm more surprised they haven't bought a house (it's a good market now)after two years.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22431223511899626612009-11-02T07:49:20.464-08:002009-11-02T07:49:20.464-08:00Actually, you all need to read the most recent PTA...Actually, you all need to read the most recent PTA minutes from SS.<br /><br />http://sites.google.com/site/southshoreseadragons/get-involved-1/pta/pag-ptsa-meeting-minutes<br /><br />In summary: They DO NOT want to be an Option School and the teachers union is forcing them to grow class size (as I read it)ParentofThreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15853045587227159562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89500660858808431172009-11-02T07:07:55.353-08:002009-11-02T07:07:55.353-08:00Maybe she wanted a "good" school that wa...Maybe she wanted a "good" school that was also diverse.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-67835723107474648722009-11-02T06:57:01.728-08:002009-11-02T06:57:01.728-08:00Don't be ridiculous. Just because MGJ suppose...Don't be ridiculous. Just because MGJ supposedly moved from Magnolia to Seward Park doesn't mean she did so for school assignment reasons. The truth is enough. First, nobody in their right mind would do that. New School is OK, as far as the south end goes... but not that great compared to anything on QA/Mag. And secondly, she didn't say she did that, did she?readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02754095597231700863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-78338038361010303152009-11-02T00:10:02.050-08:002009-11-02T00:10:02.050-08:00Did Superintendent Goodloe-Johnson move from Magno...<b>Did Superintendent Goodloe-Johnson move from Magnolia to Seward Park in order to enroll her daughter in New School/South Shore before the new Student Assignment Plan took effect?</b><br /><br />(from the "Do as I say, not as I do" file...)<br /><br /><i>from Seattle's Child Magazine<br />http://www.seattleschild.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080328/SCM02/923354278,<br />by Linda Thomas<br />Published: Friday, March 28, 2008<br /><br />New School Superintendent Ready to Make Tough Decisions for Seattle Schools<br /><br />OUR SCHOOLS <br /> <br />For me it's easy “I just look at Maya’s face and equate that to 46,000 kids, and say if a school is not good enough for my child, it’s not good enough for someone else’s child. - Maria Goodloe-Johnson<br /><br />(...)<br /><br />And I elicited a one word answer to a question about <b>whether her 2-year-old daughter Maya will go to Seattle Public Schools when she turns 5.<br /><br />“Absolutely,” says Goodloe-Johnson, 49, who is renting a house with her husband Bruce Johnson in the Magnolia area.</b> (...)</i><br /><br />And now this from Seattle Woman Magazine (Sept. 2009):<br /><br />http://www.seattlewomanmagazine.com/articles/sept09-1.htm<br /><br /><i>Eyes on the Prize<br />Meet the women at Seattle Public Schools who are leading the district through<br />ambitious and far-reaching changes.<br />by Karen Rathe<br /><br />SUPERINTENDENT MARIA GOODLOE-JOHNSON, Ph.D.<br /><br />(...) Goodloe-Johnson, who gave birth to her daughter, Maya, at 47, says becoming a parent changed her professional approach. “It provided me with a real story to tell,” she says. With educators and staff, it “personalizes [school assignment] to a fine point …I can honestly say, is that where you’d want your child to go?”<br /><br /><b>Goodloe-Johnson and her husband, Bruce, rent a house in Seward Park.</b></i><br /><br />So what was wrong with Katharine Blaine or Lawton Elementary for her daughter?<br /><br />Were the class sizes too large?gavrochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11336376340965305696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80897376409249781762009-11-01T20:05:07.169-08:002009-11-01T20:05:07.169-08:00I can buy that class size is an issue that there w...I can buy that class size is an issue that there will be disagreement on, some will think it's not a driving issue, and others will think it's THE driving issue. <br /><br />What I find that I come back to, though, is that teachers are happier with lower class sizes. I'm not talking 12-15 kids per class (this is public school, after all), but 21-23 instead of 26-30. It seems as if retaining good teachers would also involve working to provide them with working circumstances they feel they can perform well in, and although I hear varying opinions from administrators and parents on class size, teachers seem to have pretty firm opinions about the point at which they are mechanizing instead of seeing each kid in their class. That, more than any study (because there are studies that point both ways), sways me towards smaller class sizes. <br /><br />And Melissa, I find I'm torn about the I-728 money. I feel like a loophole should have been provided to districts that had ALREADY lowered class sizes, but the loophole that was provided allowed districts like Seattle to increase class size and pretty much use the money however they wanted, which wasn't the intent of the initiative, or what voters thought they were putting through. And I do not have any data to back up that assertion. It's a total guess/assumption.Meghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12795753563127975720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-28712789243880580822009-11-01T19:55:46.371-08:002009-11-01T19:55:46.371-08:00Keepin On & Melissa,
You are both right- I-728...Keepin On & Melissa,<br />You are both right- I-728 funds have been a catch all for almost anything goes... at the elementary school level paying for the other 1/2 of K is one of my favorites. Lowering class size? <br /><br />Don't believe what the annual reports and the school budgets say. After serving on budget committees for many years, I would say the line items have nothing to do with the actual expenditures. The budget is the biggest play in manipulation of smoke & mirrors. <br />The school's annual reports (and the latest "school snapshots") should be read as pure fiction & fantasy.SPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12726295210572942506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-26705417518054848832009-11-01T17:48:25.721-08:002009-11-01T17:48:25.721-08:00I-728 Money, and what it was used for is listed ri...I-728 Money, and what it was used for is listed right on the website for each school . Go to the www.seattleschools.org page, click on a school and their "annual Report" and the accounting is there. I think you can go back 5 years. Most funds have NOT gone to reduce class size, except at the high school level.Many times they went into the black whole known as "Professional development"Suehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12875541753709754758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32738591033840095262009-11-01T17:44:45.230-08:002009-11-01T17:44:45.230-08:00Some part of me wonders if the whole I-728 initiat...Some part of me wonders if the whole I-728 initiative was just a hoax to get more money for the districts and there was never any plan to really use it to lower class size. All of us should go to our principals and ask,"What happens - in detail - to the I-728 money that comes into this school?" I'd be willing to bet very little has ever gone to lower class size.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47540284828923293322009-11-01T14:39:28.752-08:002009-11-01T14:39:28.752-08:00Thanks to Whittier07 for providing current stats f...Thanks to Whittier07 for providing current stats for Whittier. I hope other families let us know what's going on at their schools too. <br /><br />I really appreciate this thread and the links it contains. I finally had time to read some of the linked documents. <br /><br />I have to say, our own anecdotal experience matches up with the evidence. We had a child in a blended K class last year with 15 children total. Our shy, perfectionist daughter absolutely blossomed in this environment. Her teacher really knew her, AND us. Now she's in a class of 27 for 1st grade, and it's like night and day. She's unhappy, and I'm not impressed yet that any differentiated learning is going on. She's the type of kid who could be easily overlooked in this environment, and she's already told me (unprovoked!) that she spends a lot of time in class sitting and waiting for her peers to be done with the work and she gets bored waiting. I'm really looking forward to our teacher conference last this month and hoping she's had time to get to know our daughter well by then.<br /><br />In the meantime, I've got private school open house dates on my calendar for this fall. Don't know where the money would come from yet, but if this year doesn't improve, we're not going to keep her in an environment that limits her potential.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com