tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post7129889967917105250..comments2024-03-29T02:41:52.718-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Middle School Families - You Need to Agitate for McClearyMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76685388948378103802016-02-15T01:54:54.559-08:002016-02-15T01:54:54.559-08:00My high school was well-funded and we did have a 7...My high school was well-funded and we did have a 7-period day. Freshman had required study hall which was optional after that. AP classes switched the scheduling requirements so that we had a double period if we took them once a week for more of a lab setting.<br /><br />Not every teacher has to grade 150 papers with the course offering, but yeah ensuring maximum teaching reqs seems to be imperative.<br /><br />What a mess. <br /><br />Could they give classes 1.5 credits so they can get taken sooner? It probably doesn't help that colleges have specific benchmarks they are looking at but is this master schedule what it needs to be?Ann Dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30257673256547847092016-02-13T07:53:13.197-08:002016-02-13T07:53:13.197-08:00What if instead of making the classes shorter, the...What if instead of making the classes shorter, they just met less frequently? You probably wouldn't want to do it with academic core classes (or Band). But a period that two days a week was PE and three days an elective might work.<br /><br />LisaGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75203810302699828532016-02-12T19:55:42.860-08:002016-02-12T19:55:42.860-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63290602068512182422016-02-12T19:55:07.787-08:002016-02-12T19:55:07.787-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-49501591908895288072016-02-12T16:17:22.008-08:002016-02-12T16:17:22.008-08:00kellie,
I mentioned something about this earlier...kellie, <br /><br />I mentioned something about this earlier in the thread. I was curious about this "credits" issue, and according to the SBE's <a href="http://www.sbe.wa.gov/faq/highschoolcredits.php#three" rel="nofollow">FAQs</a> they have seriously relaxed the minimum requirements for instructional hours to comprise a credit. And by <i>seriously relaxed,</i> I mean <i>eliminated.</i> Could that be right???<br /><br />In #3 they say "a non-time-based policy would...allow districts more flexibility to meet the increased credit requirements." To me that basically sounds like they're saying, hey, we know there's not enough money to pay for actually providing the extra credits, so feel free to just modify what you call a credit so that you can get more of them in. If I'm reading that correctly, it feels like a scam.<br /><br />In #4 they essentially say district's can define what constitutes a credit. <br /><br />Then in #11 they say classes can be shockingly short--less than 45 minutes is ok. Okay for what, I wonder...<br /><br />We have minimum requirements for instructional days, yes, and for total instructional hours. But instructional hours per credit? Looks like maybe not. More students would definitely be more work, though! <br /><br />HIMSmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-55903791064193034332016-02-12T15:58:59.020-08:002016-02-12T15:58:59.020-08:00kellie,
The definition of a high school credit is...kellie,<br /><br />The definition of a high school credit is no longer time-based. <br />http://www.sbe.wa.gov/faq/highschoolcredits.php#two<br />Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35811396108290172092016-02-12T15:35:13.185-08:002016-02-12T15:35:13.185-08:00More Credits does require more teachers. There ar...More Credits does require more teachers. There are minimum requirements for instructional days and instructional hours to comprise a credit. <br /><br />You can't just shorten the instructional time and still call it a credit. <br /><br />More importantly, there is a huge difference for a teacher to have to grade 120 papers, 150 papers or 180 papers. The total number of students a teacher is accountable for, has a huge impact on instruction. <br /><br /><br />kelliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01322661098626555834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18043929812222501972016-02-12T15:30:23.358-08:002016-02-12T15:30:23.358-08:00@anonymous at 2:27pm (please repost with a name o...@anonymous at 2:27pm (please repost with a name or signature or you will be deleted) <br /><br />What I mean is precisely what I wrote (and yes, I know everything about the budget is crazy confusing :) Meg and I spent a few months really digging into the high school WSS and well ... my rule of thumb is that if something requires both Meg and I to take it apart, in order for it to any sense at all, it is just too darn confusing. So here goes ... <br /><br />We all know there is a big distinction between theory and practice and this gap shows up at high school in a big way. <br /><br />The Budget is based on Theory, not real world practice. Weighted STAFFING Formula provides ONE high school teacher for every 150 students, plus Staffing for PCP times. <br /><br />So that looks-like on paper that there are teachers, allocated at high school for 5 classes of 30 students each, with another teacher who then teaches 30 students during the prep time. This looks-like there are then a total of SIX classes of 30 students, just ready and waiting for ALL students. <br /><br />On paper, High School looks-like it is funded for Core 24. In theory, this staffing level for six classes of 30 students per day, looks like a student could get 6 credits per year with a full schedule. <br /><br />However in practice, this is just not the case and many students have real problems even getting the 21 credits needed to graduate. The most important thing to understand about high school and the budget is that High School IS the Master Schedule. The Master Schedule determines EVERYTHING at high school. How that schedule is built determines what classes a student can actually access. <br /><br />This is the reason for the huge increase in Running Start enrollment. For many students, Running Start is the ONLY place they can get the credits they need to graduate because they can't get them during the school day, due to the constraints of the Master Schedule. <br /><br /><br />kelliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01322661098626555834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17844757870555786312016-02-12T14:58:32.609-08:002016-02-12T14:58:32.609-08:00@anonymous at 2:27pm
Are you saying teachers shou...@anonymous at 2:27pm<br /><br />Are you saying teachers should add 30 more students to their work load (without compensation?), and that student instruction time per subject should be reduced? Hmm...do you work in the Central Office?<br /><br />-reality checkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-58448647415914245722016-02-12T14:27:43.474-08:002016-02-12T14:27:43.474-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35720853861896887882016-02-12T13:49:43.476-08:002016-02-12T13:49:43.476-08:00This is all tied to capacity as well. More student...This is all tied to capacity as well. More students require more teachers. And as Kellie pointed out, more credits require more teachers. We need to stay on top of things to make sure SPS is staffing to fill BOTH imminent needs, not just one or the other. <br /><br />Good FitAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83424014521176974822016-02-12T13:08:32.317-08:002016-02-12T13:08:32.317-08:00I'm concerned about credit retrieval for kids ...I'm concerned about credit retrieval for kids who had a bad semester, illness, etc...<br /><br />Is summer school offered anywhere in SPS? I know that Middle College HS Northgate offers online classes, with regular check-ins with a MCHS teacher, but I believe that in order to access those classes the student must be enrolled in MCHS. Some kids need to make up just one or two courses, and it doesn't seem like they should have to withdraw from their current high school, enroll in MCHS, then go through the enrollment process again to return to their original high school. Doing this could mess up their electives/schedule, etc... <br /><br />Also, I don't believe MCHS currently offers a summer session. Maybe this is something that could change, in order to better accommodate Core24, but like everything else it would need funding. <br /><br />-North-end MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54803945883443929452016-02-12T10:27:52.977-08:002016-02-12T10:27:52.977-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87890024100843244022016-02-12T09:58:34.042-08:002016-02-12T09:58:34.042-08:00I have been following the high school budget issue...I have been following the high school budget issues for a few years now and here are a few details. <br /><br />The legislature did implement Core 24 without any additional funding. They have since started to allocate funding. This is 100% typical. The legislature seems to first work on a new standard and then work on the money (or not) later. <br /><br />Funding for Core 24 is specifically listed in the Operations Levy as such, between the new State money and the Levy fund, there is no excuse for high school to not be funded to Core 24. <br /><br />The WSS does NOT fund Core 24. Even worse, the WSS formula looks-like, it would fund Core 24 but does not really do this. The WSS for high school is based on a formula, that says ONE teacher for every 150 students, with some extra allocation for PCP time, which looks-like six classes for every student. . <br /><br />HOWEVER, that formula does NOT create six classes per student. This is because the Master Schedule at High School is incredibly INEFFICIENT and the formula only works in a scenario with 100% efficiency. <br /><br />The bottom line is that BAND is the ONLY thing that is holding high school together. What students can reasonably expect is 5 classes, plus band. This is because band will take significantly more than 150 students and that "extra efficiency" trickles into the rest of the schedule. <br /><br />As all of the high schools become over-crowded the efficiency of the master schedule drops even more. This is how you get the situation at Garfield with 100 students not receiving a sixth class, but administration trying to pull a teacher. <br /><br />Parents need to lobby the BOARD to put the funding that is designated for High School into High School. kelliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01322661098626555834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27169449337116708572016-02-11T19:32:17.701-08:002016-02-11T19:32:17.701-08:00I don't want to be as cynical as FACMAC-wise b...I don't want to be as cynical as FACMAC-wise but I admit my first thought on seeing that task force invitation went to similar lines. I'm not clear that SPS administration is the best way to confront this. I think a parent group might have more sway with whatever advocacy we have to do in Olympia or even within Seattle schools. Like moving school starts later. It took parents outside the system to force the district to do the right thing within the system. Sure there was a district task force but let's remember that SPS did not create it until under duress and once formed Seattle schools did not accept the task force's full recommendation and only partially recanted when outside voices got loud.<br /><br />I am also not clear on the best CORE 24 solution (IMHO) without more research, but although again I wish I wasn't going down the cynical path, I can't help but worry what I might believe is best for students academically may not be the first choice of Seattle schools managers because they have multiple agendas.<br /><br />SavvyVoterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86199631787549914252016-02-11T19:13:12.836-08:002016-02-11T19:13:12.836-08:00SW Mom,
Are you at Denny or Madison? If so, can y...SW Mom,<br /><br />Are you at Denny or Madison? If so, can you share what you're experiencing? Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54990030079405323502016-02-11T18:18:59.041-08:002016-02-11T18:18:59.041-08:00@ Jack B,
Would you be willing to share the online...@ Jack B,<br />Would you be willing to share the online middle school resource you are using? My middle schooler needs something like that, what we've got now simply isn't working. <br /><br />SW MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33583025648249202992016-02-11T17:37:31.315-08:002016-02-11T17:37:31.315-08:00It was a tough choice, but we have decided to do o...It was a tough choice, but we have decided to do online middle school and only use the school for sports and music. There is some concern about getting too far ahead of other ninth graders, but if running start is still around in 2021 then that might be an option.<br /><br />Jack B. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-69117265217625928412016-02-11T16:27:56.140-08:002016-02-11T16:27:56.140-08:00AKA, I stand corrected but I don't think it...AKA, I stand corrected but I don't think it's enough. <br /><br />I will ask SPS what amount they received and if it is enough to implement a 24-credit diploma.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10416183533776263942016-02-11T15:21:54.422-08:002016-02-11T15:21:54.422-08:00The statement that "...it was the legislature...The statement that "...it was the legislature who mandated the 24-credit graduation requirement...with no funding to back it up" is inherently false.<br /><br />The state FY 2013-15 operating budget included $97 million specifically appropriated to account for the 24-credit graduation requirement and the increase from 1000 instructional hours to 1080 instructional hours necessary to implement the 24-credit graduation requirement.<br /><br />The FY 2015-17 budget included MSOC enhancements specifically for the prototypical high school model to make up for any shortfalls.<br /><br />While you might suggest that these appropriations were/are insufficient (or not ample) is another matter, but to suggest that there was "no funding to back it up" is just plain false.<br /><br />But once again, SPS has allocated those increases and enhancements for purposes other than those for which they were intended --- in this case, to address the needs of high schools and their ability to accommodate a 24-credit credit requirement. And now they're crying wolf. Typical SPS.<br /><br />--- akaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32610442920464536802016-02-11T15:11:35.050-08:002016-02-11T15:11:35.050-08:00New Mom, you can take a foreign language - for two...New Mom, you can take a foreign language - for two years - in middle school and get it as a credit for high school.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85081915573533606522016-02-11T14:57:30.670-08:002016-02-11T14:57:30.670-08:00@ New Mom,
Taking classes at the high school whil...@ New Mom,<br /><br />Taking classes at the high school while you're still in middle school doesn't work here because our high schools are overcrowded already and HS students often can't get the classes they need. Plus, the start times are similar anyway. <br /><br />As well, getting a jump on high school level courses doesn't do you much good unless you're planning to graduate early (which means you'd also be taking a lot of classes outside of high school). Students who take more advanced math in middle school are probably those most likely to be preparing for a 4-yr university, so will probably still need 4 yrs of math in high school.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22628862015534785862016-02-11T14:42:43.287-08:002016-02-11T14:42:43.287-08:00Why would one join this taskforce? The record of d...Why would one join this taskforce? The record of district taskforces is abysmal. No doubt Heath and Co. have a preferred solution and they are looking to put a community veneer on it. Or perhaps they are SOL and are looking for political cover from parents. Or perhaps they want input now but if they are in disagreement with the taskforce will bury the recommendation later. Core 24 is bigger than Seattle and there is no reason to believe an SPS sponsored taskforce is a way to address the issue.<br /><br />FACMAC-wiseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42635094598682930492016-02-11T14:39:55.683-08:002016-02-11T14:39:55.683-08:00This is incredibly similar to what I grew up with ...This is incredibly similar to what I grew up with in Florida - 6 periods, 24 credits, 50-minute classes. Making everything work was a pain, especially when fitting in AP classes (I knew someone who, for example, had to choose between taking AP German and AP European History). I was in band, so that was one elective per year that was automatically taken up. Still, by only taking the required two years of foreign language, I was able to fit in a few interesting "fun" courses, like Humanities, Drama and even a Sci-fi course.<br /><br />The most common solution in our district was taking our PE credits over the summer. 2 and a half credits were required to graduate, so you'd take them spread out over a few years. In fact, they encouraged incoming freshmen to take the common basic PE course in the summer between 8th and 9th grades. <br /><br />Other ways of sneaking in credits in 8th grade: those who were interested could take a foreign language at the high school, in 8th grade. High school started almost two hours earlier than middle school so you could go to the first period. I didn't do this myself so I don't know exactly how it worked. I think you still had to take two years in high school, but you'd be able to get to Spanish III or whatever as a sophomore. <br /><br />Also, in middle school, if you seemed to have the aptitude, you could take pre-algebra in 7th grade and Algebra I in 8th. Again, three years were still required in high school but this could give you a bump. This was not part of the 'gifted' program; it was just based on teacher recommendation, I think. <br /><br />Again, this was Florida, not exactly known for its stellar education. But I'm shaking my head at the myriad of options we had. <br /><br />-New MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1131526000834037542016-02-11T14:28:42.195-08:002016-02-11T14:28:42.195-08:00District Watcher, you're not understanding me ...District Watcher, you're not understanding me correctly. I am suggesting that first and foremost Seattle parents rally to advocate for funding, nothing more. I don't take "There's no money for it" as a legitimate excuse for not even trying to ask for that money. It isn't idealistic to expect the legislature to pay for their project. And yes, I've watched this session and dealt with the district plenty. It's been awfully fun being at the front of the bubble. My kid's cohort has had to get real since day one of SPS.<br /><br />As for the second issue, what do we do to solve this current 24 credit problem, well a longer day is one way to solve it. PE waivers are a great idea too. And shorter classes. I hate to shut down a creative brainstorm when it's just getting started by saying "there's no money for it." <br /><br />free time<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com