tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post7169637728463924126..comments2024-03-29T02:41:52.718-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: School ViolenceMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31588231926283654732007-10-10T15:14:00.000-07:002007-10-10T15:14:00.000-07:00Leslie, my kids went to two different alternative ...Leslie, my kids went to two different alternative schools, and my experience was that there were far fewer rules than in their traditional schools. Not only fewer rules, but the few rules there were, were not firmly enforced. Kids did not have to be silent while they were read the daily bulletin (in middle school), they could eat at their desk, use the restroom whenever they needed to. They generally had much more freedom. That's not a bad thing. I wasn't insinuating such. And I certainly recognize that all alternative schools are not the same, I am speaking from my experience. When you have a parent that didn't want her kid to adhere to a moment of silence, then I suggested she look into a school with fewer such restrictions. I think that is fair and legitimate. That's why we have choice, so we can find a program that meets our needs. The term the parent used "value independence over compliance" very much sounds aligned with the alternative school we went to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-69900831247954593482007-10-09T22:03:00.000-07:002007-10-09T22:03:00.000-07:00May I respectfully suggest you read the Alternativ...May I respectfully suggest you read the Alternative Schools Report and policy. My fear is you think Alternative Schools are: a) all the same, b) hippie and kid driven; and, c) some kind of catch-all for anything goes or rejectsville - <BR/><BR/>When, in fact, if following guiding principles - is more defined than the "normal" curricula and school. <BR/><BR/>The big irony is that if "rules" are made collaboratively and on-site there is a greater responsibility attached to them adn much greater scrutiny of behavior - e.g., " There are much fewer rules, especially at the democratic schools like AS1. They are much more child focused, and kid led. She would not have to deal with a school making rules and holding her child accountable for not following them."<BR/><BR/>And, last, thanks for picking a name. It's appreciated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85382224472120761282007-10-09T08:36:00.000-07:002007-10-09T08:36:00.000-07:00The person who I said "perhaps you should choose a...The person who I said "perhaps you should choose an alternative school" to, did not like schools disciplining or imposing rules on his/her child. She did not think her kid should have to adhere to the schools rules, and valued independence over compliance. My experience with alternative schools has been that they value independence too. There are much fewer rules, especially at the democratic schools like AS1. They are much more child focused, and kid led. She would not have to deal with a school making rules and holding her child accountable for not following them. <BR/><BR/>On the other hand if you choose a traditional, structured school, then you choose the philosophy too. And their rules.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53593435348247091702007-10-08T20:49:00.000-07:002007-10-08T20:49:00.000-07:00Huh?There are always alternative schools, where ma...Huh?There are always alternative schools, where many people with your mentality group together. Perhaps you could try one of them.<BR/><BR/>2:24 PM<BR/><BR/>Do you honestly think alternative schools are a place where people w/ "Your Mentality group together. . . " <BR/><BR/>Yeoch - let's talk a lot of disrespect here - I don't get it - what pray tell is your definition of "Alternative School" and "Your mentality" - truly curious ? <BR/><BR/>Pls. respond and pick a name so we can better understand each other.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71173301469597055652007-10-07T16:50:00.000-07:002007-10-07T16:50:00.000-07:00Guess what.....my children are black too, and they...Guess what.....my children are black too, and they would never be confined to an EBD classroom. We discipline them at home, support the school with discipline, and don't call their teachers numbskulls. See the pattern............Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89131672995407341432007-10-07T16:48:00.000-07:002007-10-07T16:48:00.000-07:00Then why did you say "it could only happen at an i...Then why did you say "it could only happen at an impoverished school" ???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85730014919032675022007-10-07T16:47:00.001-07:002007-10-07T16:47:00.001-07:00Just to clarify..I am the parent of the student as...Just to clarify..I am the parent of the student assaulted on the bus.<BR/><BR/>I appreciated the principal taking the assault seriously, but not much was done about it, really. A 1 day in house suspension, and the rest of the week (2 days) off of the bus, and assigned seats.<BR/><BR/>I supported the school in disciplining my child, and wish that the other child would have had a much more severe punishment. I don't think schools do enough in the way of discipline. I wish they were much much stricter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-55079505282258110572007-10-07T16:47:00.000-07:002007-10-07T16:47:00.000-07:00The elementary school is a high performing one, a...The elementary school is a high performing one, almost completely full of rich, white kids. Often lauded on this blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-12455616050072508002007-10-07T16:45:00.000-07:002007-10-07T16:45:00.000-07:00Infuriated, the complete or nearly complete filli...Infuriated, the complete or nearly complete filling of EBD (behavior) classrooms with minority males is proof of the pudding. You'd be more tired if your kid was actually confined to one of these.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79482373357114186242007-10-07T16:44:00.000-07:002007-10-07T16:44:00.000-07:00How do you value independence in a school setting?...How do you value independence in a school setting? How would you adhere to this independent school environment, in say, Eckstein, with 1250 teenagers?<BR/><BR/>Would you have no rules? Few rules? <BR/><BR/>How would you decide? Would you leave it up to the students? Would it be chaos? Would it be like Survivor?<BR/><BR/>Please explain. The one work answers really don't support your point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42310473176623888242007-10-07T16:42:00.000-07:002007-10-07T16:42:00.000-07:00Now let's be clear anonymous. Was it a "high perfo...Now let's be clear anonymous. Was it a "high performing elementary", or an impoverished one as you mentioned earlier???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-52548867466697839782007-10-07T16:41:00.000-07:002007-10-07T16:41:00.000-07:00Independence.Independence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-51454008226928782002007-10-07T16:36:00.000-07:002007-10-07T16:36:00.000-07:00My guess was that this was not the suspended child...My guess was that this was not the suspended child's first infraction (please correct me if I'm wrong).<BR/><BR/>It sounds like the teacher had enough of his disrespectful behavior, and resorted to a suspension for a relatively minor infraction. I can't imagine a well behaved, A+ student, being suspended for peeping during a moment of silence. Let's get real now.<BR/><BR/>Now, will someone please explain how classroom rules are cultural? It seems like another crutch. The racist thing has obviously become very distorted. It's tiring, really.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91511108621570036052007-10-07T16:33:00.000-07:002007-10-07T16:33:00.000-07:00Real world. The vice principal had my high perfor...Real world. The vice principal had my high performing elementary school decided the "RULE" was 5 minutes of silence in the cafeteria. Somewhat similar. Guess what? No, the kids can't be silent for 5 minutes. No, it isn't reasonable. No, he doesn't get to make idiotic rules just because he thinks he can. No, you don't get suspended for it. No, I wasn't involved. And yes, it works for me.<BR/><BR/>Now maybe that would fly in LA where he could get away with it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5327664261974014582007-10-07T16:31:00.000-07:002007-10-07T16:31:00.000-07:00"Not everyone values compliance. "What do you valu..."Not everyone values compliance. "<BR/><BR/>What do you value?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86259419582291070782007-10-07T16:27:00.000-07:002007-10-07T16:27:00.000-07:00This is exactly why we find EBD classrooms nearly ...This is exactly why we find EBD classrooms nearly 100% full of African American males. And it is a HUGE problem for everyone. There is most definitely a cultural component to defining acceptable behavior. Not everyone agrees with the "just throw them out when they won't comply". Not everyone values compliance. It's great you liked your punishment. Not everyone would. Not everyone would agree with it for every infraction. The answer isn't constant suspension, that simply hasn't worked.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38675313885555085642007-10-07T16:24:00.000-07:002007-10-07T16:24:00.000-07:00A moment of silence absolutely was a rule. A rule ...A moment of silence absolutely was a rule. A rule doesn't have to be imposed by the district, or administration. A teacher is in charge of their classroom and may set rules accordingly. Your child's teacher's RULE was to adhere to a moment of silence. What is so wrong with that???<BR/><BR/>And as for calling your child's teacher a Numbskull, it shows what kind of person you are. You deserve what you will reap when your child has to learn his lessons the hard way, out on the streets in the real world.<BR/><BR/>Continue being a thorn in your teachers side.....How has that been working for you??? I hope your school kicks your but, and your kids but, right out of the district. With your lovely mentoring, it won't be long until he/she winds up expelled. Good riddance!!! Hasta la vista!! BTW, that means good bye.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79701231050842787332007-10-07T16:09:00.000-07:002007-10-07T16:09:00.000-07:00My 11 year old child had an incident on the bus. H...My 11 year old child had an incident on the bus. He was drinking a capri sun juice drink with a straw, when another student came up to him and squeezed it while he was drinking. It squirted all over his face, and everyone laughed at him. In retaliation, my son squirted the juice box back on the kid who did it to him. The kid then decided to "beat my son up". My son, having never been in a fight before, just covered his fact and did not retaliate. The boy who assaulted him went so far as to take my sons clarinet, hit him with it and refuse to give it back to him. The bus driver claims he didn't see anything, so never intervened.<BR/><BR/>When my son told me about it, I called the boys parents hoping that I could talk it over with them, and they would discipline him at home. The parents had a very casual attitude and eluded that "boys will be boys". They didn't think he really did anything wrong.<BR/><BR/>My next step was to inform the principal. She took the incident very seriously and after interviewing both of the boys and several witnesses on the bus, she gave BOTH boys an in house suspension. They were also suspended from riding the bus for a week, and after that week they were given assigned seats far away from each other.<BR/><BR/>I asked the principal why my son received a punishment as he did nothing wrong? The principal said that my son, though not the instigator, could have tried harder to avoid the situation. He should not have squirted the juice back at the boy. He had options... he could have told the bus driver, or just dried his face and changed seats and reported the incident to the principal when he got to school.<BR/><BR/>Now, I probably would have done the exact same thing that my son did, had I been in the same circumstance, even with all of my maturity and wisdom. However, I totally understand what the principal is trying to teach the boys, and I supported her. My son took his lumps, even though he felt it unfair. And, he did learn a lesson. <BR/><BR/>Sometimes you have to see the big picture when you or the school use discipline. And, you have to support the school, unless something is truly unjust. You have to set the example that you trust your child's teachers and school, and you will uphold their rules. Just like our parents did. I couldn't come home and tell my parents how unfair the discipline was at my school. They wouldn't hear of it, and I turned out OK!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71694951232444861372007-10-07T16:01:00.000-07:002007-10-07T16:01:00.000-07:00A moment of silence isn't a rule. It's some numbs...A moment of silence isn't a rule. It's some numbskull's notion of asserting dominance. And no, he doesn't get to make the rules either. The point. And yes, my kid WILL be in your class. And yes, I WILL be a thorn in that teacher's side. Don't like it? Private school for you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72681248178495028882007-10-07T14:24:00.000-07:002007-10-07T14:24:00.000-07:00"I guarantee you, none of you outraged parents wou..."I guarantee you, none of you outraged parents would stand for it if your child was suspended for that."<BR/><BR/>Guess what?? I would not only stand for it, I would applaud the school for taking action, and helping me to teach my child a valuable lesson. The lesson: You have to follow rules. Even if it is just a minute of silence. You, my child are not above the rules, and it's better to learn it now than later.<BR/><BR/>We may not like or agree with all of the rules. I'm sure if each parent came up with their own set of rules, each set would look very very different. Like the rules or not, they must be followed. If you child does not like the rule he can work productively to make his voice heard. He can write letters to the principal and administration, organize petition letters, etc.<BR/><BR/>He can not just choose to break the rule. That is just not acceptable.<BR/><BR/>What if we all just broke the rules we didn't like? I may not like stopping my car at a red light. Ah, you see, when you are an adult you pay the price for breaking the rules. I would get a ticket. I may get several tickets and get my licence suspended. I may kill or injure someone and go to jail.<BR/><BR/>Much better and much easier to learn now. Let the school do their job. You are setting a bad example for you child, and society will have to deal with him/her later on.<BR/><BR/>There are always alternative schools, where many people with your mentality group together. Perhaps you could try one of them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59607106456251758782007-10-07T13:57:00.000-07:002007-10-07T13:57:00.000-07:00But what is disruptive? Talking during an imposed...But what is disruptive? Talking during an imposed minute of silence is not disruptive. Especially, when it is imposed by some know-it-all save-the-world type trying to make a point. Remember "busting rocks" in Texas? Are LA schools wonderful now? I don't think so. I guarantee you, none of you outraged parents would stand for it if your child was suspended for that. Evidently, you can get away with it in areas impoverished areas.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15951778760926596212007-10-06T22:23:00.000-07:002007-10-06T22:23:00.000-07:00Anon at 6:52,Clearly if you would like to know abo...Anon at 6:52,<BR/><BR/>Clearly if you would like to know about rights you need to read:<BR/>RCW 28A 600.020<BR/><BR/>Children have a right to learn in an environment conducive to learning. Your child has no right to disrupt.<BR/><BR/>You should teach for a week in Compton, or Lynwood, or Watts in South LA county. You would then realize how high schools in the lowest 10% of achievement operate.<BR/><BR/>The current West Seattle Principal does have a clue. When I made him aware of the law. He wrote a directive addressing the law and informing teachers to call the office or security to have a security person go to the classroom and remove the disruptive child. He included office numbers and cell numbers for all administrators.<BR/><BR/>It is parents like you that aid and abet the continuance of disruptive classroom environments that have some of those 25% to 30% of Seattle Students headed to other schools.<BR/><BR/>During my first two weeks at WSHS I asked my students if they had ever experienced a classroom situation where it was difficult to learn. Most chuckled; then a girl raised her hand and said that Mr. Dempsey would describe my middle school career.<BR/><BR/>We have many school administrators at all level that find it easier to ignore the law to appease parents like you. The loss that our children and teachers endure from your thoughtless ignorance is large.<BR/><BR/>Read some research, read some law, and stop destroying schools.<BR/><BR/>Please sign your name.<BR/><BR/>Danaher M. Dempsey, Jr.<BR/><BR/><BR/>DanDan Dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01152200483530597948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-37301851372648203442007-10-06T20:15:00.000-07:002007-10-06T20:15:00.000-07:00Anonymous at 6:52, you are truly doing your child ...Anonymous at 6:52, you are truly doing your child a disservice by not holding him accountable for his behavior, and not letting his teachers do it either. It is much easier to learn now, in a school setting, than later on in a work environment, social setting, relationship, etc. The punishments are much more severe. The loss of a job or demotion, police intervention, etc. <BR/><BR/>It is much better for him to learn now. Let the teachers and school do their job. None of us want your Johnny disruptive in the class distracting everybody else. <BR/><BR/>It is parents like you that drag this district down, and make our classrooms a three ring circus. Teach your kid to be respectful of his teachers and fellow students. PLEASE.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9791047568118763602007-10-06T19:39:00.000-07:002007-10-06T19:39:00.000-07:00I want any child, including mine, out of the class...I want any child, including mine, out of the classroom if he or she cannot follow the rules of the classroom. You get a warning and then you're out. <BR/><BR/>I have told my son if he wants to zone out in class, there's nothing his teacher or I can do. BUT, if his behavior interferes with another student's ability to learn, then he will be held accountable.<BR/><BR/>I get that there are children with challenges (my older son got dinged for staring out the window too much) and a teacher can take that into account.<BR/><BR/>But any teacher can tell you that one or two kids continually disrupting class drags it down. And, if you have more than that, the other kids take it as okay to do pretty much anything as long as it doesn't "bug" the teacher.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65994730787356847352007-10-06T18:43:00.000-07:002007-10-06T18:43:00.000-07:00And will you be making as much trouble for your ch...And will you be making as much trouble for your child who cannot behave in class?Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.com