tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post7228158226398355292..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Boundary Work Session TodayMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-74282322811447983842018-12-03T07:33:38.401-08:002018-12-03T07:33:38.401-08:00Hi Melissa: Regarding Green Lake ES, its site size...Hi Melissa: Regarding Green Lake ES, its site size is such that adding portables bumps the building site coverage over 35%, which would require a Departure/zoning variance. Not impossible to obtain but a challenge (as the district learned at Laurelhurst).Joe Wolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747791661117554332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27209302554126607942018-11-28T07:56:49.378-08:002018-11-28T07:56:49.378-08:00@ Realtime.
SPS mostly follows the BEX schedule....@ Realtime. <br /><br />SPS mostly follows the BEX schedule. There are many examples of creative solutions that SPS has used in the face of community pressure. <br /><br />Last time, some special funding mechanism was used to accelerate Arbor Heights. Additionally, SPS has secured special funding from State of Washington to open several buildings like Magnolia. And there is has been fund swapping between BEX and BTA. <br /><br />As I have mentioned a one-year delay on this problem, only makes things more challenging. At this point, only community organized dialogue or solutions between Whitman, RESMS and Licton Springs is going to move this forward, as the district has declined to take the lead. <br /><br />There could be possible BEX solutions as the package has not yet been sent to the voters. However ... the longer this drags out, then BEX would most certainly be off the table. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />kelliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01322661098626555834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-48752885596926786892018-11-27T14:09:00.463-08:002018-11-27T14:09:00.463-08:00ReaTime, I wish that were possible but it would ha...ReaTime, I wish that were possible but it would have to be a hardcore emergency for them to change what they are doing. It's not like they haven't but I cannot recall completely bumping out one project for another. Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77416507109231585532018-11-27T12:30:38.616-08:002018-11-27T12:30:38.616-08:00@ kellie, since the district isn't required to...@ kellie, since the district isn't required to follow what's on its BEX wish list, is it too late to rebuild Whitman ASAP? Could SPS recognize the crisis (and the fact that they give misinformation to the committee), speedily reconvene the committee to reevaluate Whitman and any other emerging crises, then provide updated scores?<br /><br />realtimeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-58696368049586515832018-11-27T09:04:14.527-08:002018-11-27T09:04:14.527-08:00@ Lexy,
I think you have summarized this perfect...@ Lexy, <br /><br />I think you have summarized this perfectly. This is a no-win situation. And the sooner that everyone comes to terms with the simple fact that a full sized middle school and a full sized K8 simply do not fit into one building, the better this will be for everyone. Indeed it would have been best if that simple acknowledgment, had been done before student were geo-split from their schools but ... Delays won't change this fundamental problem and will only make it more complex to solve. <br /><br />And this scenario was completely missed by the scoring criteria for BEX. FWIW, I was on the committee that evaluated the scoring criteria. We were told that RESMS was not a candidate because there was a planned boundary solution between Whitman and RESMS to move one elementary school between the feeder patterns. <br /><br />When we looked at that scenario, it did not then tip Whitman into a capacity problem. Clearly, the best outcome would be to rebuild Whitman ASAP and restore capacity there. Then, it could be possible to make a nice "option" middle school of about 500 that could share with RESMS. <br /><br />kelliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01322661098626555834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-64538211610294758082018-11-26T16:20:35.234-08:002018-11-26T16:20:35.234-08:00It seems like a comprehensive middle school size r...It seems like a comprehensive middle school size really does need to be at least ~750, so I hope SPS doesn't try to push the enrollment too low at Eagle Staff. 900-1000 middle schoolers is the SPS 'ideal' (whatever that means), and hence that is what new MS buildings, including the RESMS/LS building, are designed to accommodate. Below 700-750 there are impacts to elective offerings and to the SPS budgeted staffing numbers. Based on earlier posts/comments on this blog and in the formerly-Soup-for-Teachers FB group, it seems like the district's smaller middle schools have felt those impacts this year.<br /><br />My understanding is that the SPS budget threshold for an assistant principal is 667 students and that there is a counselor (or part-counselor?) allocated for every 400 students. The RESMS population - primarily the neighborhood-based students and the high FRL population - would suffer as a result of loss of those counselors/APs, who provide much-needed support and stability.<br /><br />But, with 750 MS students, there isn't room to accommodate a growing K-8. And with a bigger K-8, there isn't room for a comprehensive middle school. ARGH!<br /><br />I don't have a solution, but I wish this didn't feel so much like a no-win situation for everyone involved. I also wish that the implication of moving a chunk of students back to Whitman had been considered in the BEX rankings, instead of making Whitman too small to be considered 'overcrowded' which meant that it dropped down the list, and THEN deciding to move students back into a building that really, really needs to be rebuilt, but won't be.<br />Lexynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31353106481918995402018-11-25T21:25:09.292-08:002018-11-25T21:25:09.292-08:00@Anonymous - but we can look at the current enroll...@Anonymous - but we can look at the current enrollment numbers and they are still insufficient. For example, in the *current* sixth grade class there are only 21 students enrolled from the RESMS geozone - this is still not a full classroom. In the Jane Adams geozone there are 21 sixth graders, but only 20 seventh and 20 eighth graders - it is not the case that enrollment always grows by large amounts, so we can not depend on that assumption.<br /><br />I don't pretend to be a district enrollment forecaster with access to many more numbers and tracking mechanisms (who we know are great at their job), but I do claim that we can look at these numbers and be very concerned about further splitting the cohorts. Right now, in 6th-8th grades, there are only 260 kids enrolled in the RESMS & Whitman gezones. Already, this is less than the recommended 270 student enrollment. muhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07841682595015012741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38362758374359009792018-11-24T09:32:34.120-08:002018-11-24T09:32:34.120-08:00@Megan "and kids often opt in as they advance...@Megan "and kids often opt in as they advance in grades." <br /><br />The numbers should maybe be based upon current 6-8th a a rough guideline, as I am guessing looking at current 5th would skew it lower.<br /><br />At HIMS principal had said 50% of the HC 6th graders came from neighborhood schools. That's alot of kids who either remain at their local elementary school, or test later in 5th grade & opt in for middle school. <br /><br />Our kid missed HC by two points in second grade when tested. Tested again in 5th, identified via school based test at 99%. <br /><br />Former HIMSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31651661132888984322018-11-23T23:59:02.322-08:002018-11-23T23:59:02.322-08:00Exactly, “sheesh.” The cohort is not “just an enro...Exactly, “sheesh.” The cohort is not “just an enrollment designation for services”—it’s also a mechanism for ensuring that appropriate services can be provided (i.e., critical mass). <br /><br />all typesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15453642851445851362018-11-23T20:00:49.877-08:002018-11-23T20:00:49.877-08:00"Cohort" does not just refer to self-con..."Cohort" does not just refer to self-contained services. From the district AL page:<br /><br /><i>HCC provides significantly accelerated curriculum in reading, math, science and social studies based on student need. Services include student progression through pathways to specific school sites with</i> <b>adequate cohorts of Highly Capable students.</b> <i>This model provides students peer learning and social/emotional opportunities, teachers with suitable experience and/or professional development on the academic and social/emotional needs, appropriate curriculum, appropriately differentiated instruction, deeper learning opportunities and accelerated pacing.</i> <br /><br />sheeshAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27093230788360397222018-11-23T19:35:14.580-08:002018-11-23T19:35:14.580-08:00@Confused - those are the kids enrolled for each g...@Confused - those are the kids enrolled for each geozone, which means that if they split HC into two school, Eagle Staff would only have 80 kids enrolled. Right now Eagle Staff & Whitman go to Eagle Staff. (McClure & HIMS to HIMS, and Eckstein & JAMS to JAMS.)<br /><br />And those are the numbers currently enrolled in 5-7th grade (aka, the people who would be enrolled next year). We expect the numbers to change - that is not the 'qualified' population, and kids often opt in as they advance in grades. We can not guarantee that the numbers will change, the trends show that any increase would be modest and not qualitatively change the conclusions.<br /><br />They are not the majority population in any of the schools. From what i can tell there are currently 340 students in the cohort at HIMS, or about 33% of the total enrollment. (The 7th and 8th grades are disproportionately large, and I'm not sure why. The trend is markedly downward for the lower grades. Its possible that the international schools skew it?)muhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07841682595015012741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9701912623528476452018-11-23T11:09:17.064-08:002018-11-23T11:09:17.064-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.muhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07841682595015012741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21831864613870121992018-11-23T09:37:24.381-08:002018-11-23T09:37:24.381-08:00@ Institutional Memory, misleading how exactly?
...@ Institutional Memory, misleading how exactly? <br /><br />all typesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56929656414816159182018-11-21T14:28:27.074-08:002018-11-21T14:28:27.074-08:00Megan Instead of HC enrolled, did you mean to stat...Megan Instead of HC enrolled, did you mean to state HC kids from the aforementioned school's reference area? That makes more sense to me. Example you are stating their are 80 kids within REMS zone and 143 within Whitman's zone. Otherwise I am not following as Eaglestaff does not have less HC enrolled kids (80) than for example Whitman (143) that I am aware. Also, did you mean 8th grade only? I thought there were more total HC. Example at HIMS I thought they make up about 40% or so of total population. <br /><br />Confused Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39266552157077298332018-11-21T12:47:19.785-08:002018-11-21T12:47:19.785-08:00There is no HC cohort. There is just an enrollment...There is no HC cohort. There is just an enrollment designation for services. It’s misleading to keep using the cohort term in relation to HC services. <br /><br />Institutional memoryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19018304262910258012018-11-21T12:15:12.538-08:002018-11-21T12:15:12.538-08:00It sounds to me that the principal and families at...It sounds to me that the principal and families at Whitman are pretty willing to welcome more students, and give them a good school to attend. The solution doesn't have to be HC, though, it could be adjusting middle school geozone boundaries. I think HC just gets talked about a lot because the district can move a pretty big number of kids and assume that most people forget those are human children with actual educational and emotional needs.<br /><br />Right now the middle schools in the north are:<br /><br />(School, stated capacity - or the best consensus i could find, current enrollment, current HC enrolled)<br />Eagle Staff, 755, 838, 80 *has 4 portables not included in capacity <br />Eckstein, 1044, 1037, 236 *has 7 portables included in capacity<br />HIMS, 972, 1030, 141 *no room for portables<br />JAMS, 948, 936, 58 *has 4 portables included in capacity<br />McClure, 630, 537, 139<br />Whitman, 832, 574, 143 *has 14 portables, but this is estimated capacity without them.<br /><br />SPS recommendations say that there should be at least 270 kids in a middle school cohort. This ensures a reliable and efficient enrollment for each course. At 80 kids there is less than one full class size in some grades; which is why splitting the RESMS cohort is such a bad idea.<br /><br /><br />muhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07841682595015012741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35386818049140595872018-11-21T11:10:22.163-08:002018-11-21T11:10:22.163-08:00In addition, any move should also take into accoun...In addition, any move should also take into account cohort size at HIMS and JAMS and other middle schools. They should keep them together and move them to Whitman IMO. Also what is HIMS HC cohort size? HIMS is becoming very overcrowded again. <br /><br />A ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-12472851203293477702018-11-20T18:21:58.551-08:002018-11-20T18:21:58.551-08:00So really there is currently space at Whitman for ...So really there is currently space at Whitman for the entire cohort? Or if one wanted to backfill REMS, one could remove the geosplit from Viewlands and send the entire school to REMS (rather than the current state of half to REMS and half to Whitman) after moving the HCC conhort? <br /><br />Or, as geosplits remain unpopular, remove the geosplit from Viewlands and send them all to Whitman.<br /><br />Don't ignore Whitman when proposing solutions. <br /><br />https://www.seattleschools.org/common/pages/UserFile.aspx?fileId=45501198 <br /><br />-Curious Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56139469616720885172018-11-20T17:42:54.936-08:002018-11-20T17:42:54.936-08:00If the cohort rolled forward with no changes from ...If the cohort rolled forward with no changes from the previous year, these are the HCC numbers with RESMS first and Whitman second:<br /><br />6th 66 (26 + 40)<br />7th 67 (21 + 46)<br />8th 90 (33 + 57)<br /><br />Fairmount Parent Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32507000592429836172018-11-20T16:26:08.699-08:002018-11-20T16:26:08.699-08:00What is the cohort size of the hcc currently at RE...What is the cohort size of the hcc currently at REMS?<br /><br />CuriousAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38727705153534204392018-11-20T16:07:06.893-08:002018-11-20T16:07:06.893-08:00I too fall in with those thinking the most logical...I too fall in with those thinking the most logical first step is to move REMS HCC students to Whitman. Hopefully that staves off some capacity issues for the time being. <br /><br />I was shocked to learn that Whitman was not on next BEX levy. That school is so tired (from a physical plan perspective).<br /><br />REMS MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62204549233827528362018-11-20T15:20:08.368-08:002018-11-20T15:20:08.368-08:00For all the questions about total middle school ca...For all the questions about total middle school capacity - the city has capacity south of the ship canal, and at Whitman. But, aside from Whitman, every middle school north of the ship canal is at or over capacity and most of them have portables. <br /><br />In my opinion, long term fixes all need to look at either moving more students south of the ship canal or adding physical space in the north end. <br /><br />It would fix the immediate capacity issues at RESMS to move the HC cohort to Whitman. It would not fix the long term problem of whether LS is viable at a 200-300 student size, and RESMS was viable at a 600-700 student size. (Note, this latter is true if they moved geozone lines to send more gen-ed to Whitman as well.) <br /><br />Right now, though, Whitman has space and RESMS doesn't, so moving some students to Whitman is a short term fix. (I don't think anything with Whitman is a long term fix, because the facilities are in dire shape. But, this is besides the point. It does buy time.)<br /><br /><br />About splitting the HC cohort between RESMS and Whitman - we know that there are not enough HC students enrolled in the RESMS geozone to support another cohort there. The district would be in the position of needing to run classes that could not be filled (such as math classes with 20 kids). We have the same problem with drawing the McClure HC kids off to McClure - there isn't enough room in McClure to add a full cohort of kids. But if you could add a full cohort of kids at McClure (or use a magic carpet to fly them to Washington), you either end up with a two small cohort at one of the schools in the north, or you combine them and end up with a bigger cohort than fits into any of the schools.<br /><br />We've seen what happens with small cohorts often enough, most recently at Washington, to guess that we would be introducing more inequities in how HC is served, and probably that would mean no HC services for some qualified kids in the north end. I don't think this is acceptable.<br /><br />muhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07841682595015012741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20478707021060405582018-11-20T14:00:15.176-08:002018-11-20T14:00:15.176-08:00Well, BEX IV was supposed to be the "middle s...Well, BEX IV was supposed to be the "middle school BEX" but capacity issues took center stage. At least that was what I was told. <br /><br />That we have very few middle schools renovated is troubling. Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7445285084367329522018-11-20T13:29:54.424-08:002018-11-20T13:29:54.424-08:00Both Meany and McClure have very small footprints....Both Meany and McClure have very small footprints. Both of those schools will really max out around 600. <br /><br />Both Whitman and Washington have had historic enrollments well in excess of 1,000 students. But it is important to note that the vast majority of that capacity was found in ancient portables. (many circa 1950)<br /><br />SPS middle schools are in terrible shape. It would have been nice if BEX had focused more in middle schools and really delivering a district wide solution. The new equity lens was very helpful but it is notable that the lens captured individual schools and the lens did not capture macro, strategic or systemic issues. <br /><br />From a systems point of view, middle schools have multiple challenges in that maintenance of the physical plant is seriously compromised and there is some profound misalignment between feeder patterns and capacity. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> kelliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01322661098626555834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89319359513078047082018-11-20T12:45:00.981-08:002018-11-20T12:45:00.981-08:00@ kellie, do you know what is the excess capacity ...@ kellie, do you know what is the excess capacity of our current middle schools, and how this compares to the current overcrowding at other middle schools? Overall, do we have more spots than we need, or do we need another new middle school?<br /><br />If there's discussion about moving all/part of the RESMS HCC population to Whitman to increase its numbers, what about a similar proposal re: McClure instead (i.e., start an HCC cohort there, relieving pressure on Hamilton, and if HIMS' numbers get too low they could shift some of the RESMS HCC back to HIMS). (I don't know how McClure's capacity compares to Whitman's though, but I've seen comments before that McClure would like some increased options for rigor.) That would also shift more students south of the ship canal, since most of those less populated schools you mentioned are in the south.<br /><br />idea tosserAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com