tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post7252842802137550304..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Friday Open ThreadMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger79125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66583336532922734002014-09-17T10:20:56.937-07:002014-09-17T10:20:56.937-07:00Josh,
Perhaps the grades you give students reflec...Josh,<br /><br />Perhaps the grades you give students reflect only their academic abilities as they relate to the standards that you teach in your lessons. If that is true then you are probably already grading differently than many teachers in your school. <br /><br />When I sent a kid through RHS, many teachers gave more than half the grade for other things. My kid's grades reflected timeliness, organization, whether the chairs were in a straight row, cleaning the teacher's classroom, neatness, using a specific notebook/pen/computer program, having non-related books out of the backpack, artistic quality, parent signed syllabus, sitting in assigned seat, attendance, etc. So that a kid who knew the material could fail the class & a kid who didn't know the material could pass the class. That is the main difference that I have seen between the current grading system & SBG.<br /><br />The other main difference I noticed is that kids don't all have to be done learning a concept on the same day. They can move on more quickly or work on it longer without penalty. The assessments are not telling you that you are a good or bad student, but whether you are ready to move to new material or whether you need to spend more time on this.<br /><br />-Former RHSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11218606216568547352014-09-16T08:58:31.573-07:002014-09-16T08:58:31.573-07:00This description was posted by Jan on another thre...This description was posted by Jan on another thread about SBG<br /><br />"What SBGs at least introduce into the discussion is the idea of "purifying" the grade -- taking out all the behavior modification elements (do them if you want -- but report them some other place and reward them some other way), and encouraging teachers to be less controlling in terms of the amount of time, etc. that it takes kids to reach mastery. We stop grading on whether exact hoops were jumped through on exact dates -- and start looking at whether and to what extent, over the length of the course, kids can get from point A to point Z."<br /><br />-HS ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-64157682337782455912014-09-16T07:14:43.517-07:002014-09-16T07:14:43.517-07:00We experienced this as well. No consistencies bet...We experienced this as well. No consistencies between individual teachers within a school.<br /><br />Linh-Conoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-52115238128032713442014-09-16T07:06:07.028-07:002014-09-16T07:06:07.028-07:00Thanks for the input, parentalunit. Did your child...Thanks for the input, parentalunit. Did your child get a rubric for that (remarkably broad) standard? How did the teacher determine who was approaching standard, who had met standard, and who was exceeding standard, in an objective, repeatable fashion?<br /><br />I guess what I'm wondering is not about standards -- after all, as a biology teacher I design my classes to address the standards laid out by the state (and to some extent, the federal standards, where they provide opportunities for enrichment). Every teacher does that, and always has. Where the rubber hits the road is in the assignment of grades based on students meeting explicit expressions of pieces of those standards. Students must have rubrics before the work is required, else how will they know what is expected of them?<br /><br />In the absence of those rubrics, this is exactly the same as regular ol' grading, as far as I can tell. After all, the labs and tests I design are intended to determine how well students are grasping the (aligned to standards) material; how is this different?Josh Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17242600011474990770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8484785786652262082014-09-15T23:28:30.781-07:002014-09-15T23:28:30.781-07:00What are the "standards" in SBG? Is SBG ...What are the "standards" in SBG? Is SBG supposed to be based on the grade-level standards (e.g., CCSS), course-specific learning objectives, some combination of the two, or something else? <br /><br />Whatever the case, I assume SBG works a lot better when there's a defined curriculum--clear learning targets, consistency across classes, etc. Am I wrong?<br /><br />HIMSmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-12314721216843929332014-09-15T23:03:33.216-07:002014-09-15T23:03:33.216-07:00You don't have to go as far as Spokane or Minn...You don't have to go as far as Spokane or Minnesota. Federal Way uses SBG. Here is the link to standards for all subjects, including LA: http://www.fwps.org/teaching/sbe/staff/priority-standards/6-12/<br /><br />Josh, as a parent, these LA standards make perfect sense to me for a high school freshman: "Determine a theme or central idea of a text and analyze in detail its development over the<br />course of the text, including how it emerges and is shaped and refined by specific details..."<br /><br />My student read The Kite Runner and Fahrenheit 451, among others, and had show she could meet the above standards. The report card showed all standards and at what level she met them. Why would this be confusing?<br /><br />Another parentalunit<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41113098969100747622014-09-15T22:08:00.286-07:002014-09-15T22:08:00.286-07:00Here's a link to Spokane Public Schools' i...Here's a link to Spokane Public Schools' info about their use of SBG.<br /><br />http://www.spokaneschools.org/Page/16308<br /><br />here's syllabus for a 9th grade biology course using SBG in Minnesota, don't ya know.<br /><br />https://sites.google.com/a/mpls.k12.mn.us/housenga-science/9th-grade-biology/9th-grade-biology-syllabus<br /><br />As you can see there is not just one cast in concrete methodology.It's a little flexible.<br />Very interesting about grades being only about content, everything else is separate.<br />Also using the latest trend rather than averaging the whole semester. Several references to the studies showing academic growth better than any other intervention.<br /><br />Food for thought.<br /><br />WilsonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89174487805258678402014-09-15T21:15:09.203-07:002014-09-15T21:15:09.203-07:00Wow, for those of you for whom SBG works well, I w...Wow, for those of you for whom SBG works well, I would love to see the rubrics for the standards and how they are evaluated in science classes. But the fact that they are apparently being applied differently across schools means that they are not comparable -- and isn't comparability the main selling point? That someone meeting standards at school X perforce has the same mastery as someone meeting standard at school Y?<br /><br />How, I wonder, are these standards laid out and applied in language arts classes? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm really interested in this. I'm a science teacher, and I wonder how, say, my biology students would be graded on SBG. I just can't see it. Of course, with the EOC, I have the luxury of having a state-sanctioned test which claims to test competence on the state biology standards.Josh Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17242600011474990770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43544167165951617952014-09-15T18:20:14.408-07:002014-09-15T18:20:14.408-07:00It sounds as though SBG is being implemented diffe...It sounds as though SBG is being implemented differently in different schools. We had one teacher that only gave 1, 2, 3, or 4 grades that were translated to percentages. There were no in between grades, so a 4 meant absolutely perfect. Meeting standards, while exceeding standards on some points still meant only a 3. It was not motivating and could be maddening for perfectionist types. I understand some of the vitriol for SBG.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5817492632430568822014-09-15T17:19:58.652-07:002014-09-15T17:19:58.652-07:00HIMSMom, if a child can meet every single standard...HIMSMom, if a child can meet every single standard in a class at the beginning, they are in the wrong class. Parental Unit, we are in a school outside of Seattle in a district that uses SBG. It is a district with a large number of minority students and having been through middle and now high school, I do not see ANY kids getting a pass, nor kids getting left behind. IN fact, what I've seen is the ability of a student to move ahead one or even two grades in math by showing that they've met the standards in the tradional math assigned to that grade. <br /><br />Every standard has multiple sub-standards and kids can work on meeting them the same way traditional school students do. They read chapters in textbooks, lectures, quizzes, tests, research papers, and all of them has standards attached to them. Sometimes homework counts towards a standard, sometimes it is just practice. The students use traditional textbooks.<br /><br />There ARE allowed retakes in SOME situations, but we saw that in the traditional, non SBG schools too. <br />Linh-Co-aren't you supposed to be some sort of expert in education? Just because Whitman does it that way doesn't mean EVERYONE does it that way. Honestly, if I didn't know my kid's high school did standards-based grading, I would never know it from the syllabi that I saw at the beginning of the year.<br /><br />I'm sure there are people unhappy with this system, but our child is thriving and we've noticed none of the problems being talked about here (with the exception of one class, a non-core, parents complained and things were changed).<br /><br />Another parentalunit Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22301452336890042832014-09-15T12:51:32.872-07:002014-09-15T12:51:32.872-07:00Incorrect about SGB. What the hell is with this bl...Incorrect about SGB. What the hell is with this blog? It's knee-jerk reactionarism astounds yet again. SGB as implemented in my school, it is fantastic. Clear expectations and procedures. Content not important? No Grade kids on behavior? No "extra credit"? No, more like if you go deeper, ask five instead of three questions and answer them, all homework on time(yes, homework counts). Go get a syllabus from a school that uses SBG. <br />Kids are not getting passed unless they know the material and kids aren't getting A's unless they do high quality work. There is wiggle room at the "exceeds standard" end which allows teachers to be tough on the high achievers and high ability kids. But you must pass your tests. Yes, you get to retake, not endlessly(come on!)but you will only get a 3(B) maximum posted, no above standard allowed on a retake.<br />it's actually more helpful in LA and SS as it pushes kids to get past that 3 or B(at standard). The requirements to do so are clearly spelled out for each assignment and students have the option to go past standard or not. As I said, the teacher has discretion on demanding more from those who can do it. For middle school it's great. Drives kids forward and allows differentiation. <br />In HS I suppose it needs to be more rigid, but in middle school, I'm sold.<br /><br />Parental unitAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-25346730682165521932014-09-15T12:07:58.868-07:002014-09-15T12:07:58.868-07:00Retaking a test 2 or 3 times and getting an A does...Retaking a test 2 or 3 times and getting an A doesn't mean you have mastery. It just means you did test prepping. Do we really want to teach to the test? <br /><br />Standards Based Grading doesn't do better teaching to mastery.Linh-Conoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66332838532896541142014-09-15T11:26:16.752-07:002014-09-15T11:26:16.752-07:00Hamilton is moving toward SBG as well. Here's ...Hamilton is moving toward SBG as well. Here's my question: if you're going to do SBG and you give some sort of pretest at the beginning of a unit, if a kid gets an A can they just tune out and skip all the rest of the work and assessments until they get to the new unit? Or can they just take a summative assessment that covers the whole quarter up front, then have free time if they pass that? There are a lot of kids who meet the standards at the outset, and would continue to meet them if they stayed home and just came for the final assessment. How does SBG work for them? I haven't been able to get a good handle on this.<br /><br />HIMSmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86707231433453833572014-09-15T09:31:58.182-07:002014-09-15T09:31:58.182-07:00I'll agree with darn near everything the above...I'll agree with darn near everything the above two commentators had to say about SBG, but I will also point out that it IS used with some regularity in high schools in the vicinity of Seattle -- just not in SPS high schools (that I know of). Many of the interns from my cohort last year were using SBG in their classrooms, both high school and middle school. Now, how a college admissions office would deal with that I do not know, but I'm sure they sigh when they see it.<br /><br />Really, I think the SBG approach begs the question of the purpose of grading: it assumes a particular purpose, but it is far from clear that that assumption is justified. Josh Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17242600011474990770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87745451702053594162014-09-15T09:22:54.521-07:002014-09-15T09:22:54.521-07:00Kate, I am disappointed in your blame the victim p...Kate, I am disappointed in your blame the victim piece. You should have just focused on the failings of the district.<br /><br />HPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-44957720761919440682014-09-15T08:22:18.710-07:002014-09-15T08:22:18.710-07:00If we want to grade kids on effort, how do you kno...If we want to grade kids on effort, how do you know how much effort a kid put in? Maybe one kid spent 3 hours going through flash cards & one kid didn't even make flashcards. Should they get different grades? <br /><br />I am bothered by high school grades where a student can get a good grade & not know the material or fail the class when they do know the material. I think that is why we have kids in algebra who can't do fractions. I would rather have the grade reflect their mastery & some teacher comments about how well behaved & hard working they are, or not.<br /><br />As a sped parent I got a little fed up with being told that my kid didn't need specially designed instruction because because he was graded on classroom compliance instead of competency.<br /><br />-Also SpedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-73414740258189765302014-09-14T22:33:58.806-07:002014-09-14T22:33:58.806-07:00Right on Linh-Co. Homework doesn't count in S...Right on Linh-Co. Homework doesn't count in Standards Based Grades - because well, effort doesn't count. It is irrelevant. (Gee, effort and persistence are the KEY skills middle schoolers should learn. All of them. Duh!)<br /><br />A few things that the district training said about Standards Based Grading - all completely bogus.<br />1) Standards based grading fixes the achievement gap (because minorities won't suffer discrimination) and minorities will do better with Standards Based Grades as they won't be graded on cultural aberrations. That is obviously stupid. The achievement gap is exacerbated on all Standard's based measures, because they are the measures and norms of the majority. Look at any standardized testing results and you will see results that are skewed against minorities. At least with other forms of grading - teachers are free to assess whole children, and base grades all sorts of growth, and different values. Minorities, and people with any sort of difference, are screwed by Standards Based Grades. Only "standard" people benefit from Standards Based Grades.<br /><br />2) Standards Based Grading fixes the dreaded "GPA" inflation. I remember people whining about grade inflation when I was in high school eons ago. Seriously. Nothing bad has happened because of "grade inflation". Colleges have a whole plethora of assessments and standardized tests available on all applicants. There is no harm in some other measures as well.<br /><br />3) Standards Based Grades is the same as a workplace review system. Again ridiculous. Collaboration and persistence are the most important workplace skills. And butt-kissing is the most rewarded. If we want grading to be "like the work place", we would grade butt-kissing, collaboration, persistence... and THEN content. Besides, who really cares about workplace review methodology? Kids are still in school right? WOrkplaces FIRE people. Do we want to fire kids from school?<br /><br />4) Everyone is moving to SBG. As Linh-Co and others point out. No high school would ever damage it's reputation by lowering everyone's GPA. The only reason they're doing Standards Based Grades in middle schools - is because middle school grades really don't matter. If middle school grades mattered at all, nobody would do standard's based grades.<br /><br />Eddie SpedieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77247626561953652902014-09-14T14:11:44.825-07:002014-09-14T14:11:44.825-07:00Here's a link to the Spring Transportation Rep...Here's a link to the <a href="http://www.k12.wa.us/Transportation/STARS/QuarterlyReports/2014Spring/SEATTLE.pdf" rel="nofollow">Spring Transportation Report</a>.<br /><br />Here's a link to the <a href="http://www.k12.wa.us/Transportation/STARS/QuarterlyReports/2014Spring.aspx" rel="nofollow">source</a>.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-48178117841162494962014-09-14T12:22:02.749-07:002014-09-14T12:22:02.749-07:00Data request: I can't seem to find:
the Spri...Data request: I can't seem to find:<br /><br />the Spring 2014 Transportation report. <br /><br /> I think kellie posted the link a few weeks ago. Could someone re-post it?<br /><br />Thanks!Prosleep Momnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-64319988274655356292014-09-14T11:41:47.719-07:002014-09-14T11:41:47.719-07:00"I also wonder about the lack of notation abo..."I also wonder about the lack of notation about the whole preschool issue. Until Mirmac 1 put up the link to the New School Foundation page, I had no idea there was this kind of linkage with the City, New School and SPS. And this new <br />P-5 idea coming from Early Learning? Who is pushing this and why? And why does it appear some staff seem to work for the City more than the district?"<br /><br />I think the effort of Stuart Sloan is to create a prek-5 program similar to S. Shore, and this isn't a bad idea. However, we're seeing the same individuals that seek to place control within Seattle's business class. I absolutely agree the city's effort is to place more and more control into the hands of Seattle's business and political establishments. No thanks.<br /><br />The union wants to protect children in 4500 child care centers from felons. We can't turn our backs on children in potentially harmful hands.<br /><br />It is time to vote NO on both initiatives and send the city and the union back to the table. The message must be clear: The city is to keep their hands off of our schools. Burgess and his desire to "measure" impact of Family and Ed. Levy has controlled testing policies. I'm also concerned, if the city's initiative passes, that we will see the city try and control technology purchases etc. The hands of those that can profit are close to the city's plan- particularily if we start providing online learning for preschool children. I'm not convinced that preschool children should be on computers.Transparency Pleasenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-28918260297542536332014-09-14T08:28:55.071-07:002014-09-14T08:28:55.071-07:00Oh yeah Melissa. Like $1M BMGF worth of momentum...Oh yeah Melissa. Like $1M BMGF worth of momentum. <br /><br />How is it staff can go out and grub for grants on stuff that is: not a priority, and entails encumbering district resources?mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88722105707466886722014-09-14T00:35:22.925-07:002014-09-14T00:35:22.925-07:00Most of the time at the retreat was about how dist...Most of the time at the retreat was about how district staff interacts with the Board? Obviously, there's a problem and I have to wonder how much is being amplified. <br /><br />I also wonder about the lack of notation about the whole preschool issue. Until Mirmac 1 put up the link to the New School Foundation page, I had no idea there was this kind of linkage with the City, New School and SPS. And this new <br />P-5 idea coming from Early Learning? Who is pushing this and why? And why does it appear some staff seem to work for the City more than the district?<br /><br />I will have more to say on the pre-K plans and the vote but parents, you should be aware that there are forces moving quickly to consolidate this issue in SPS.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86780883855651132092014-09-14T00:05:10.786-07:002014-09-14T00:05:10.786-07:00Any chance Denny Middle School is pushing Standard...Any chance Denny Middle School is pushing Standards Based Grading? Wonderingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-44326434811984712182014-09-14T00:02:22.692-07:002014-09-14T00:02:22.692-07:00It was a push from OSPI a few years ago. Thank Go...It was a push from OSPI a few years ago. Thank God our high school does not buy into this bs.<br /><br />Once again, it's another untested educational fad. I don't know who comes up with this crap.Linh-Conoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91364792704424511542014-09-13T23:56:22.362-07:002014-09-13T23:56:22.362-07:00Whitman does Standards-Based Grading. It is stupi...Whitman does Standards-Based Grading. It is stupid for everyone not just kids with learning disabilities. Homework is not checked because only tests count. Kids figure out pretty quickly if homework doesn't count they don't have to do it. You can retake tests as many times as possible. You cant' get a level 4 unless you do extra credit. If you do only the requirement, then the most you can get is a level 3 because you aren't exceeding standards. We hated it!<br /><br />Linh-Conoreply@blogger.com