tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post7402584167749737644..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Wild, Irresponsible Speculation about the West Seattle APP Option and MoreMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88724905893570951522013-09-29T10:50:07.182-07:002013-09-29T10:50:07.182-07:00You know Syd, you're right. It's SE parent...You know Syd, you're right. It's SE parents and kids reacting to us. It's possible to go many, many weeks north of the ship canal or in QA/Magnolia without seeing more than a few black people or groups of kids of color. When we go to a sports event it's a bit jarring for us, and I'm sure that registers with folks who see it. I know when I'm down at Lowes on Rainier or, gee I'm kinda at a loss here for other times I'm down there, I'm always struck by how there are white people, all shades of color and everybody, except maybe me, seems very relaxed. We live and dare I say, love, a sheltered life here and see our nation's diversity on TV more than in real life.<br />My hope is that with the NSAP we will see families moving north for school because just making things better in the south will not fix the racial separation of housing. People have to move. Gentrification is getting whites down south, but will people of color move north?<br />Lake City is seeing some changes and hopefully so will the very white areas around QA, Magnolia, Ballard, Wallingford, etc. the districts chicken approach is interesting. It is based, like you said on the theory that parents will own what they are stuck with and demand improvement. As long as those improvements are granted when demanded, it could work. The egg approach does have that patronizing flavor that is offensive to many. I pray Mr Banda has the personal experience and professional know-how to thread this needle. It's going to be tricky.William Leenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47107802370787481262013-09-29T08:12:23.416-07:002013-09-29T08:12:23.416-07:00Having been at those events, I assure you we SE pa...Having been at those events, I assure you we SE parents see a similar look in the NE parents eyes. I always thought we were reacting to you guys. :)<br /><br />Seriously, this is Seattle. It is mostly white. We all know white people. <br /><br />On another note, I am pretty sure there is at least one example of a magnet program bringing income diversity to a school. APP was placed in Garfield for a reason. Is it perfect? Do the kids mix as much as we wish they would? No. But they are there. <br /><br />What other magnet programs were tried?<br /><br />If I were ruler of the universe, I would have remodeled all the SE schools first, and put all the programs there. Our families have shown a lot of willingness to have their kids travel long distances for elementary through middle school through HS...especially in the days of the minority to majority preference. I have never met a child yet coming voluntarily the other way.<br /><br />Instead, the last high schools on the list are Franklin and Rainier Beach. And don't think that having a relatively new performance space is the same as a whole school remodel. Walk the halls of Rainier Beach and see how cramped and dark and dingy it is. <br /><br />I think SPS is hoping it is a chicken thing. That is how their neighborhood assignment strategy manifests in the SE. If we make them go to their neighborhood school, providing no chance of going to any other public school, then the middle class families will diversify the income levels in the SE schools. Instead I think it means those middle class families will go private. <br /><br />I sort of wish we had that teacher who was moved from Center School to Hamilton to help moderate these difficult conversations. Sydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08715140880268606856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18893233757575584042013-09-29T00:15:23.525-07:002013-09-29T00:15:23.525-07:00I think the egg comes first Syd. Parents will do w...I think the egg comes first Syd. Parents will do whatever they can for their kids as you say and if the district can't deliver, parents will leave if possible. Magnets were tried long ago to integrate the district with little success. What's needed is 110% commitment by the district to make all schools safe, respectful and challenging. Easier said than done. It all ties together, the disproportionate discipline problem, the over representation in sped, underrepresentation in AL programs. <br />Anecdotally, went to some MS sports today and the SE kids don't have any whites on their teams and they and the parents have that we don't even know any white people look in their eyes. It's disturbing. There has to be some interaction between the schools from different parts of the city to make this NSAP work and get things evened out. Regular contact, like sister schools. I don't know how it could work, but getting the kids together once a month or so could do so much. It's the kids who can make it happen. <br />Thanks for sharing SydWilliam Leenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43590378835142787572013-09-28T21:48:11.994-07:002013-09-28T21:48:11.994-07:00Syd,
Are you thinking the kinds of magnet program...Syd,<br /><br />Are you thinking the kinds of magnet programs we already have in the district (STEM, language immersion, STEAM, Montessori?) Makes sense to me. Reducing the proportion of high-needs students in a school makes it easier for staff to meet those needs. <br />I think the school boundaries have to be stabilized too. A family under lots of stress already shouldn't have to deal with kids in two elementary schools.<br /><br />LynnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68283478385551520402013-09-28T20:31:06.064-07:002013-09-28T20:31:06.064-07:00I too would like to see a discussion by parents in...I too would like to see a discussion by parents in the SE public schools. <br /><br />I'll start.<br /><br />My APP student just graduated from Garfield. He had a great experience there, and a middling one at Washington (what do you want? it was middle school. who is happy in middle school?). He was pretty happy the two years he was at Lowell. I for one wanted him to stay at Beacon Hill (not an International school at that time), but the teachers there strongly recommended he move to APP. And they were right. One other note: that cohort in HS was very important. Those kids are odd. I love them, but they are nerdy as all get out. Having a crew of kids they could hang with made all the difference. Yes, anyone can self select into AP classes, but there is still a cohort.<br /><br />I have two more children. One is 5th grade at Graham Hill (contemporary not Montessori). He is high performing, but not APP. Although when he started at GH there were lots of middle class kids from a variety of cultural backgrounds in his class, that is not the case now. All those families are either going to private school or Orca now. And boundary changes are coming. What is that going to look like? Who else out there is looking at Aki Kurose? Anyone actually have a kid there? What is going on there. Rainier Beach? What is going on there now?<br /><br />SE Dad, I don't think APP is resegregating our SE schools. There are not that many kids at TM. What segregates our schools in SE Seattle is parents choosing private. Middle class parents choose private in SE Seattle. They will skip lunch, give up their car, never take a vacation, and work extra jobs to send their children to private school. They appreciate diversity. They celebrate diversity. Some of them even try to send their kids to public school for a few years. But it wears them down. I understand ...I really do....when I hear parents say they have tried and just feel the needs of their kids are not being met. I feel that way sometimes myself. Those very passionate teachers and principals are focused on meeting the needs of the majority of the kids in the school - English language learners, children with disabilities, and children who face the myriad challenges of poverty. And it makes a certain amount of sense. <br /><br />However, it is hard not to feel that no one cares if your kid is getting what they need...since teachers are actually pretty honest that they will not be able to differentiate for the high end of the class. It may be true that SPS is trying to win back families from private in the North End, but that is not the focus of the SE schools. I struggle with this every year. We are not leaving. We just need to find a way to make the schools better for everyone. <br /><br />It is a chicken and an egg thing. Do the schools start offering incredible programs to lure parents or do parents start choosing SPS and change the schools simply by being there?<br /><br />I would love to see some ideas about how we move past the current state of affairs. I want magnet programs in every SE school. And not a magnet program and a general ed program in each school, that is divisive. I want whole school programs. Sydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08715140880268606856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-82763932680786144462013-09-28T20:04:03.774-07:002013-09-28T20:04:03.774-07:00Wow Spock. You know the parents of every APP stude...Wow Spock. You know the parents of every APP student in Seattle? I have a pretty bright kid (or two) and that fact makes me "the oppressor." Are there things I am I doing (or not doing) that oppress poor children - or is it just the fact that I have these kids?<br /><br />It's amazing how you know everything important about me already. You know how I feel about our federal and state tax systems. You know I am not now and never have been poor. You know how I feel about state-funded childcare and preschools. Stereotypes are so useful - there's no need for you and I to even have a discussion.<br /><br />The oppressor.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6471243588885067762013-09-28T17:45:27.052-07:002013-09-28T17:45:27.052-07:00Let's look at the first wrong, the one that...Let's look at the first wrong, the one that's already been committed. Poor kids fail in school and fail to test into AL programs because our society has not addressed poverty, racism and classism. The parents lack a solid education, a remnant of Jim Crow, slavery, racial discrimination, structural poverty, and economic system which perpetuates a lower class. The poor are concentrated, a remnant of housing discrimination and economic redlining. Preschool and daycare are substandard compared to Europe and the reast of the developed world perpetuated by the governing class who can afford to pay for these services. The social ills are being maintained by the very people who benefit from gifted programs. The middle class families benefit from low taxes and a cheap workforce, they are the oppressor. <br />As Robinson points out, the children are blameless and should not be punished for the sins of others. But the parents in Seattle of APP are using their children as a human shield to deflect criticism of their own actions.<br />If you don't want another wrong done then fix the first one, or at least try.<br />Two wrongs don't make a right, but leaving a,wrong to fester generation after generation makes that wrong worse and worse. It compounds the wrong, makes wrong after wrong. By your logic a hundred wrongs are OK and it's OK if there are a hundred more, as long as those wrongs are one way, against the same group.<br />Illogical Captain.<br /><br />SpockAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77355442595126014502013-09-28T00:38:53.969-07:002013-09-28T00:38:53.969-07:00SE Dad,
Nancy Robinson (Founder of the Robinson C...SE Dad,<br /><br />Nancy Robinson (Founder of the Robinson Center at the UW) wrote a relevant <a href="http://psych.wisc.edu/henriques/papers/Robinsona.pdf" rel="nofollow">article</a> in 2003 titled: Two Wrongs Do Not Make a Right: Sacrificing the Needs of Gifted Students Does Not Solve Society's Unsolved Problems. <br /><br />I would be very interested to see a discussion by parents from the South East region about their schools - what is working and what is not, how you think the schools could better serve your students. Do you want to talk about that?<br /><br />LynnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-12406707762959203992013-09-27T23:00:38.807-07:002013-09-27T23:00:38.807-07:00White flight has been a problem in Seattle Public ...White flight has been a problem in Seattle Public Schools for decades and attracting white students back from private a schools has been an intentional act on the part of the district. Spectrum and APP are no doubt keeping some white families in public school. The NSAP is no doubt keeping white kids in and bringing some back as well. It's also resegregating the district. APP continues to have a huge over representation of whites. If APP doesn't get more diverse it will have to be eliminated except for the most outlying of kids. It's a very disturbing picture to have such low numbers of kids of color and FRL. White folks can't have neighborhood schools AND a segregated stand alone program. <br />All this talk about bright kids suffering in general Ed classrooms when SE kids are dying and going to jail just doesn't get much traction down here.<br />SE dad<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34980417927549444392013-09-27T17:41:50.733-07:002013-09-27T17:41:50.733-07:00My daughter absolutely was harmed by being labelle...My daughter absolutely was harmed by being labelled "not Spectrum qualified" in a classroom where that seemed to be the only thing the teacher knew about her. So these labels can harm kids. I hated that this person talked to me about the labels the other kids in the classroom had as well. It shocked me actually. This might not be the way it is supposed to work, but it can happen. Gen Ed MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-67262835742837991262013-09-27T17:14:32.939-07:002013-09-27T17:14:32.939-07:00In addition, a fair number of the IPP kids then we...In addition, a fair number of the IPP kids then went on to Nova, founded in 1971, because it was the only high school at that time that could meet the academic and socio-emotional needs of these kids. Nova continues to be a good fit for advanced learners.<br /><br />sidneydAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38906821576304132972013-09-27T16:16:51.107-07:002013-09-27T16:16:51.107-07:00As grade 10er points out, IPP was started BEFORE b...As grade 10er points out, IPP was started BEFORE busing, so people trying to call its founding white flight have their timing off. The label "Spectrum" may have been initiated then, but it replaced gifted programs which were already in place in Seattle, variously called "Horizon" or ironically, "AAA". IPP was started as only two classrooms with the intent to serve those outliers who could not be served in the existing gifted programs, and in some cases to prep kids for the UW Early Entrance Programs. The "I" in IPP was for Individual. It was not intended as an escape for white people and included children of color from the start. <br /><br />sidneydAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75955058963466053092013-09-27T14:06:09.022-07:002013-09-27T14:06:09.022-07:00Maureen,
Who set that "All our classes are h...Maureen,<br /><br />Who set that "All our classes are honors classes" attitude at RHS and who do you think can and will require them to change it? The registration instructions for this year's freshman indicate there has been no change.<br /><br />LynnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-25626444115858902452013-09-27T13:01:46.386-07:002013-09-27T13:01:46.386-07:00@Outrage deficiency: Beautiful post. Spot on.
...@Outrage deficiency: Beautiful post. Spot on. <br /><br />WSDWGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84496718622452631102013-09-27T12:39:45.261-07:002013-09-27T12:39:45.261-07:00The history of IPP, precursor to APP, was started...The history of IPP, precursor to APP, was started in 1978, the same year that SPS instituted The Seattle Plan of compulsory busing. I 350, outlawing busing, was passed two months later and declared unconstitutional in 1982.<br /><br />In 1989, a group called Save Our Schools supported Iniative 34, which would again outlaw busing.<br /><br />So much to learn at Historylink.org <br />My history teacher wants us to learn search methods and I'm home sick today. I'm goingmtomusemthismfor a paper.<br /><br /><br />Grade 10erAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9486374966660907002013-09-27T12:27:32.019-07:002013-09-27T12:27:32.019-07:00My daughter sometimes struggles with work that is ...My daughter sometimes struggles with work that is at her grade level (....maybe she'd do better if there was just more rigor?). To hear people talk, there must be something really wrong with her, because apparently 80% of the kids in her class must be bored to tears with the easiness of it. And sometimes, things are easy for her. My outrage-o-meter must be broken, because nothing’s registering.<br /><br />In every grade level, determined by kids’ chronological ages, there is a huge range. At almost any given age, say 8, there are kids working everywhere from preschool to college level. I’m at a loss to understand how a teacher could teach a group of randomly assigned kids of a particular age at their own personal optimal level in every subject all day. This seems to be what is expected, otherwise, school doesn’t give a rip about kids.<br /><br />Then, if schools try to meet as many of these individualized needs as possible, they are segregating and labeling, which is completely dehumanizing, and further evidence that they don’t give a rip about kids.<br /><br />When I was a kid, sometimes I felt stupid if things were too hard, and bored if things were too easy. As an adult, sometimes I feel stupid and sometimes I feel bored. Why are we expecting schools to create a place that doesn’t exist in reality? Now we are heading towards a world where you are a failure if you don’t go to college (no jobs for you!), and if you go to college, graduate, and the jobs available are “beneath you”, you don’t take one. Better than being bored.<br /><br />I am not saying that schools shouldn’t try to optimize every kids’ education to the greatest extent possible, but it is a huge endeavor. And to minimize it by saying that if a teacher is good, he or she will have kids of all levels in their class, and all kids will feel optimally challenged and supported all of the time by his/her mad differentiation skills is folly. And to say that if teachers aren’t able to do this they are somehow defective or don’t care, is counterproductive. And to look at all attempts to do this as something coming from evil masterminds to harm children...probably not very productive either.<br /><br />No, but let’s think of how many ways we can say our schools are failing or how terrible educators are, and continue to manufacture outrage to the fullest extent, because then we can continue to build the case for defunding this mess, and everyone will get what they want. Right?<br /><br />-Outrage deficiency<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77106016254423967482013-09-27T12:08:44.348-07:002013-09-27T12:08:44.348-07:00I think Charlie and Lynn made a lot of assumptions...I think Charlie and Lynn made a lot of assumptions about Jim's opinions that are not supported by what he actually wrote.<br /><br />Can someone who knows first hand tell us whether RHS students are actually currently being forced to retake Physical Science and Biology? That seems unlikely. I know that, until 2008, RHS offered a science placement test that allowed qualified students to skip 9th grade science but that option wasn't available from 2009 forward. From 08-12 (our experience) they seemed really hostile to the idea of separate Honors classes (except in math).<br /><br />If RHS is to be a required pathway for HIMS APP students they are going to have to let go of their "all of our classes are Honors classes" attitude because that is just not true. I'm a huge believer in inclusive classes in the younger grades, but think it wastes everyone's time to do that in High School. Don't get me wrong, RHS is a great school with many high performing kids, but in our experience it was not a great fit for kids who want to move faster than their peers.Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31451541802214108782013-09-27T11:13:00.759-07:002013-09-27T11:13:00.759-07:00Further wild speculation. In 1978 the US Supreme C...Further wild speculation. In 1978 the US Supreme Court ruled Washington initiative 350 invalid. 350 had outlawed mandatory busing for purposes of desegration. <br />Also in 1978, the precursors to APP and Spectrum were created. White flight in the district was a problem and these programs offered a segregated classroom or program, but segregated on the basis of academic criteria and therefore legal. <br />APP is still underrepresented by black and Hispanic students, very much so. <br /><br />JimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62415422858491005382013-09-27T10:23:08.242-07:002013-09-27T10:23:08.242-07:00I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my ...I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post and I apologize if it came across as antagonistic or presumptuous. I was "wildly speculating" as per instructions.<br />One fact, the "urban myth" about the Prism self-contained classes in the Bellevue district was, in fact, a first hand account from students; "regulars" is the term they used for themselves.<br />I don't have children of school age, but as a taxpayer and citizen, my feeling is that drastically reducing the size of self-contained APP would be good thing. The devisiveness it creates is evident and the effectiveness is debatable.<br /><br />JimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32712141199033939602013-09-27T10:01:09.437-07:002013-09-27T10:01:09.437-07:00In terms of situation at RHS where they are limiti...<i>In terms of situation at RHS where they are limiting access to classes –that ends!</i><br /><br />Why can't that end right now? Why is it being done?<br /><br />curiousAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11738601081903663952013-09-27T08:42:43.529-07:002013-09-27T08:42:43.529-07:00Oh my, left for an evening and APP has been dissol...Oh my, left for an evening and APP has been dissolved district-wide. (lol)<br /><br />I was only talking about eliminating the HS APP cohort, not the lower grades. So let’s look at this realistically. <br /><br />First, gone and never to return, is the APP WMS to GHS pathway where most of the cohort did move on to HS together. However, remember there was, (and never will be) self-contained APP classes at GHS. <br /><br />Right now there are two APP middle school sites, or two cohorts. These kids can choose 1)GHS, 2)IBX-IHS or 3)return to their assigned HS. So the APP cohort is splitting up.<br /><br />Going forward it looks likely that there will be four APP MS cohorts – WMS, HIMS, New NE site, New WS site. <br /><br />So, what the district should do is say:<br />WMS APP kids go to GHS<br />HIMS APP kids go to RHS or BHS (depending on address)<br />New NE site to IHS<br />New WS to WSHS <br /><br />And built in to this model are – wait for it – APP cohorts created from the MS sites.<br /><br />If you want IB or IBX, you ask for it during open enrollment. (For IBX you do have to prove you are qualified) So any APP kid could put in for IBX and most likely get a seat.<br /><br />In terms of situation at RHS where they are limiting access to classes –that ends!<br /><br />We would need to think in terms of pathway and not grade level when we think about high school. <br /><br />For example in math you may have a class of 9/10 Alg I students. 9/10/11 Alg II students, depending on their given pathway. <br /><br />In this model, most APP students will be attending schools near their home and all high schools would need to ensure they have classes that serve all their student’s needs.Po3noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77090495585323402432013-09-27T01:27:14.875-07:002013-09-27T01:27:14.875-07:00"My question is would all kids in the distric...<br />"<i>My question is would all kids in the district be more challenged socially and intellectually with less self-contained AL?</i>"<br /><br />No. They wouldn't. Glad I could answer that for you. The advanced learners would not be more challenged intellectually and, frankly, social challenge isn't something we're looking for. Remember that you're the one concerned about the delicate little flowers getting wilted by laels.<br /><br />"<i>Would APP kids suffer academically or socially from reintegrating to blended classrooms?</i>"<br /><br />Yes. They would. That's why their families took them out of those general education classrooms.<br /><br />"<i>Would gened kids and the mildly gifted benefit from less self-ccontained?</i>"<br /><br />No, they wouldn't. I sure am glad can be of such service to you by answering all of these questions.<br /><br />"<i>Research shows self-contained works for the gifted, but is it the only thing that works?</i>"<br /><br />No, it isn't, but it is the thing that works best for the greatest number. That's why we're doing it this way.<br /><br />"<i>Does clustering and differentiation also work?</i>"<br /><br />Not nearly as well.<br /><br />"<i>New research shows that skills like perseverance are more important for success than CogAT scores.</i>"<br /><br />And how are advanced learners going to learn perseverance if they aren't challenged? They won't. Glad you agree that they need the challenge that they can only be reliably delivered in a self-contained classroom.<br /><br />"<i>Don't we want successful kids above all else?</i>"<br /><br />Many of us do. What is it that YOU want above all else, Jim?Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-67078660697635619352013-09-27T01:27:10.921-07:002013-09-27T01:27:10.921-07:00"To say AL doesn't affect the rest of the..."<i>To say AL doesn't affect the rest of the district is disingenuous.</i><br /><br />No. It isn't. Students who are not in classrooms do not have any affect on what happens in those classrooms. To suggest that they do is absurd. Are the children in other schools affecting your child's class? Are the children in other districts? other states? This is madness.<br /><br />"<i>All kids need challenges.</i>"<br /><br />Yes. Advanced learners need challenges also, and they don't get them in general education classrooms. This should pretty much be the end of the discussion right there, but Jim has more to say.<br /><br />"<i>There is a range of kids from those who would completely flounder without self-contained to those who would do better in a more intellectually diverse environment.</i>"<br /><br />No, Jim, you're wrong. All of the students in APP were in a more intellectually diverse environment and if they had done better there they would either still be there or would go back there. They haven't. You don't know what's better for these children than their families and you would be wise to stop pretending that you do.<br /><br />"<i>Sure there are people who resent the program,</i>"<br /><br />Yeah, like you, Jim.<br /><br />"<i>but that doesn't change the very real fact that some kids, both in and out of the program, are harmed by the stigma and labeling.</i>"<br />Ummm... no. That's a lie. No one children are harmed by the stigma and labeling of either being in or out of Spectrum or APP. And those do are irritated by it - not harmed - can learn to endure.<br /><br />"<i>My cousin's kid goes to Bellevue schools and told horrible stories about the "regulars" vs. the Prism kids at her school.</i>"<br /><br />Wow. Thanks for the urban legend that you heard from a friend's cousin. That's real scientific data you got there.<br /><br />"<i>The question isn't Mercer and Madison, it's about a parallel system for kids who are able to pass a set of tests and are willing and able to travel to another location.</i>"<br /><br />Is that how you describe Special Education programs? Is that how you describe ELL programs? Actually, it's about a system that provide students with an appropriate academic opportunity. It's not better, just different for students who need something different.<br /><br />"<i>Do we as a district, as a city who pays the freight, feel such a system is desirable and appropriate.</i>"<br /><br />Yes. We do. Obviously. That's why we have it.<br /><br />"<i>How many kids whose self esteem is damaged is acceptable?</i>"<br /><br />I don't know. How many you got? Again, I disbelieve that any child's self-esteem is damaged by either being identified as Spectrum-eligible or APP-eligible or not. And if there is one, then it is time for that child to suck it up.<br /><br />"<i>Maybe there aren't any adverse effects other than perceptions of parents.</i>"<br /><br />I think you're on to something there, Jim.<br /><br />"<i>I don't claim to know.</i>"<br /><br />Actually, yes, you do. It's disingenuous for you to pretend otherwise at this late point.<br />Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84470884057283565252013-09-27T00:52:03.680-07:002013-09-27T00:52:03.680-07:00Charlie it appears we were typing at the same time...Charlie it appears we were typing at the same time.<br /><br />LynnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76618827849930736752013-09-27T00:46:22.611-07:002013-09-27T00:46:22.611-07:00Jim,
I'm aware of the research on perseveranc...Jim,<br /><br />I'm aware of the research on perseverance. That's why I support offering academic challenge to all kids (including mine.) How many kids who don't learn perseverance through appropriate challenge are you willing to sacrifice? <br /><br />In my experience parents of children who are not in APP are more likely to suffer damage to their self esteem than the students themselves. <br /><br />Parents enroll their kids in APP because they did suffer academically or socially from being in blended classrooms. You are concerned that kids in general ed programs miss out by not having APP kids in their classrooms. I can share with you that none of my kind, funny, bright child's classmates (and few of his teachers) missed his presence in the classroom when he left them for APP.<br /><br />Interesting that you want a successful child above all else. I think fear that one's child won't be able to compete for college admissions is what leads to excessive concern about what those kids over in APP are doing.<br /><br />I want my children to be mentally and physically healthy, to enjoy learning, to know that making a mistake isn't the end of the world. I want them to go to college and to find jobs they enjoy. I want them to be self-supporting. I want them to make friends and feel a little less unusual.<br />You don't have to worry about them taking your kid's spot at a competitive college. Your kids probably have better grades and more extracurricular activities than mine. Most likely your kids don't lose track of their homework as often as mine. It's not a competition and if it were - we're not winning.<br /><br />I am realizing there's no point to this discussion. We have such different priorities and concerns that we are not going to find common ground. <br /><br />Lynn<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com