tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post755054064614910057..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Open Thread (With a Few Thoughts)Melissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger95125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14024860799844032642008-03-19T07:26:00.000-07:002008-03-19T07:26:00.000-07:00"Unfortunately, the Washington State math standard..."Unfortunately, the Washington State math standards are low enough that you have to get about a year ahead just to stay even with what most of us think of as grade-level math."<BR/>This is so true. We are at least a year behind California, where I most recently taught. As an educator, I feel all my kids should be doing work on grade ahead of where this Everyday Math is taking us. But then what happen to them next year? The teacher above me is not in agreement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13520898283859741222008-03-18T15:38:00.000-07:002008-03-18T15:38:00.000-07:00At one time I had one twin in a regular fourth gra...At one time I had one twin in a regular fourth grade class at Whittier and one in fourth grade at Lowell. The next year they were in fifth-grade Spectrum at Whittier and fifth grade at Lowell. I can assure you that the math at Lowell was *definitely* advanced over the regular or Spectrum program math, even if it doesn't look that way. I do agree that it's probably not as high as it should be for most of those kids, and not always a full two years ahead. Unfortunately, the Washington State math standards are low enough that you have to get about a year ahead just to stay even with what most of us think of as grade-level math.<BR/><BR/>My youngest is now in fourth grade at Lowell, and pretty much all the math he brings home at least says sixth grade on it, either Connected Math booklets (essentially the same that one of my daughters did in 6th-grade math at Washington, though they aren't doing all of them this year), or photocopied curriculum from some sixth-grade workbook. <BR/><BR/>The attempt to align math teaching among the various teachers is an effort that's been going on for some time -- well before the introduction of the new writing curriculum. They should be doing better at it by now -- if they're not, call 'em on it. Support should be available from the Advanced Learning Office as well.<BR/><BR/>I'm glad to hear someone at Whittier is doing good work in differentiation. That was a weak point when my kids were there, and it's terrific that they're working on it. Julie has talked about math differentiation happening at Lowell as well: I don't have personal experience, as my kid isn't as far out there in math as some, but it's certainly supposed to be possible. Again: call 'em on it.<BR/><BR/>Helen SchinskeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24071723563945617952008-03-18T14:57:00.000-07:002008-03-18T14:57:00.000-07:00This is the inequality of the choice system. Ther...This is the inequality of the choice system. There are still some neighborhood schools that are far above others and really it has to do with teachers. Whittier has the best teachers in the district. There is plenty of parking, the parents help out, the kids are motivated. If you are highly skilled, and good at what you do, you go where you get the most support and you have the least amount of troubled kids. Who wouldn't want to work there?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5523263532424045572008-03-18T11:01:00.000-07:002008-03-18T11:01:00.000-07:00My son is not getting any advanced math at Lowell....My son is not getting any advanced math at Lowell. The principal did not want the teachers to have to start with both a new writing and math program. My son is bored, and he's at Lowell!!!<BR/>It is painful to read above that a neighborhood spectrum school, is getting advanced math and my child who is bused far from our home for advance opportunities is not getting what he needs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56062129075646896272008-03-18T09:43:00.000-07:002008-03-18T09:43:00.000-07:00We are in a school that says it does Advanced Oppo...We are in a school that says it does Advanced Opportunities. My child is in third grade and has always loved math. The class is working slowly on the grade level book and he is not allowed to work ahead. <BR/>The class is about on page 110 or so, and there are no suppliments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8960805020890443172008-03-18T09:25:00.000-07:002008-03-18T09:25:00.000-07:00our children attended an alternative school that h...our children attended an alternative school that had mixed grade classes. The concept was such that if you had a 2nd/3rd grade class, the same topic could be taught to both grade students but the older or advanced kids could explore the topic in much greater depth. If they were doing a book report a struggling second grader could handwrite a short synopsis, while an advanced 3rd grader might do a full book report, with a power point presentation. In reality id just didn't happen. Differentiation is difficult to do efficiently across one grade, but stretching it across two grades just didn't happen. The curriculum was suited to something between 2nd and 3rd grade expectation, and you had struggling 2nd graders in the same room with advanced 3rd graders. The struggling students were frustrated and often needed tutoring, and the advanced students were bored, bored, bored. The other issue is that many times you repeated the curriculum. For instance if you were in a 2/3 class as a 3rd grader and went to a 3/4 class for 4th grade, there was ALOT of overlap. Causing even more boredom and frustration. This is why I am a huge fan of self contained classrooms for advanced learners, and a reasonable amount of standardization or at least the utilization of the GLE's.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21596963267697761752008-03-18T09:15:00.000-07:002008-03-18T09:15:00.000-07:00We are in a second grade regular class in a good s...We are in a second grade regular class in a good school in the NE. They first started with second grade Everyday Math (EM), it proved too difficult for some kids so the teacher started over with the first grade EM books and rush through them now they are around halfway through second grade everyday math and my child seems lost in all the stuff. Forgets concave shapes vs. convex, mixes up obtuse vs. acute angles and his mixes up the different ways he is discovering to multiply. It is all just a jumble for him and he has spent no real time becoming adept at anything. <BR/>Are others like us out there. The poster from the Spectrum class has me worried.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85762867137659143452008-03-18T09:07:00.000-07:002008-03-18T09:07:00.000-07:00There has been a big push lately to get math stand...There has been a big push lately to get math standardized at Lowell (not all teachers were on the same page about what level of acceleration was appropriate). I would urge anyone who has concerns about the level of math instruction to consult with the teacher and principal about it. It should certainly *not* be the case that APP math should be falling behind what a Spectrum class is doing (unless you happened to be looking at a page of work that was meant strictly as review). There are definite standards that should be making a difference here.<BR/><BR/>That said, some enrichment topics are suitable for more than one grade. It isn't necessarily a terrible thing if a particular math enrichment topic happens to get taught in second grade in one place and third grade in another. There are also standard topics that get revisited every year, like probability -- to be frank, I have never seen much difference in those from one year to the next anyway! possibly slightly higher numbers used in later grades, or whatever.<BR/><BR/>Helen SchinskeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59697947042097296262008-03-18T08:03:00.000-07:002008-03-18T08:03:00.000-07:00The story from anonymous at 3:18 provides an excel...The story from anonymous at 3:18 provides an excellent illustration or the dilemma we face:<BR/><BR/>Which do we prize more highly: differentiation - in which every student gets the a lesson at the frontier of his or her knowledge and skills and advanced students are supported in their work beyond standards - or standardized curriculum complete with fidelity of implementation and near uniform pacing across the system.<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure what benefit students get from the standardization.<BR/><BR/>Now, I know that some would say that the two are not mutually exclusive - that advanced students can investigate the concepts to greater depth or apply them across a greater range of contexts - but there is just no substitute for acceleration. And it is acceleration that advanced students really need.<BR/><BR/>Every time that anyone mentions any sort of fidelity of implementation or standardized curriculum, be sure to ask them how that is compatible with differentiation and how advanced students will get the acceleration they need. Again, expanded depth and breadth are great, but they are not substitutes for acceleration.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56286860269989111722008-03-17T15:18:00.000-07:002008-03-17T15:18:00.000-07:00I have a Whittier Spectrum third grader who has al...I have a Whittier Spectrum third grader who has also finished the Grade Four Everyday Math-he reports that about five kids are done and everyone is close to being done. My son's good friend and neighbor is at Lowell who is in third grade and just brings home stuff that is below my sons Third Grade Spectrum class. We compared and it looks like stuff that was done in first and second grade at Whittier. <BR/>This is frustrating to my friend who feels like she sent her son to Lowell for advanced work and now can't get back into Whittier Spectrum (waitlists). <BR/>My son reports that when you are finished with the Everyday Math you get other "Fun Math". I am hopeful it is Singapore??? I will asked the teacher this week and report back. <BR/>By the way this is a great teacher and she moved them along well, and allowed the kids to work in groups above where the class was but kept the rest of the class moving along. I am really impressed, the kids are never, never, bored!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11729359539489233872008-03-17T13:17:00.000-07:002008-03-17T13:17:00.000-07:00My son (4th grade) has done nothing but Everyday m...My son (4th grade) has done nothing but Everyday math...all he seems to do is worksheets. I asked his teacher a few weeks ago about the traditional (Singapore?) supplement, and she said right now they are just using the Everyday math. I didn't want to over burden my son with after school supplements, but it looks like I will be forced to.<BR/><BR/>How sad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66461815805283606542008-03-17T12:12:00.000-07:002008-03-17T12:12:00.000-07:00Yes I would like a thread where we can talk about ...Yes I would like a thread where we can talk about what our kids are doing with math, but I don't want to hear what someone is doing at home or five grades ahead of my kids. Can we get something on specific grades?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21426916914400972052008-03-17T10:43:00.000-07:002008-03-17T10:43:00.000-07:00When is Singapore going to start in schools? I ha...When is Singapore going to start in schools? I have a third grader now done with the fourth grade Everyday Math Book (Spectrum class) but he hasn't been given Signapore instead he is allowed to do the 5th grade Everyday Math book.<BR/>Is Singapore ever going to start with WASL starting soon?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84377732433203204232008-03-16T13:12:00.000-07:002008-03-16T13:12:00.000-07:00To Hippie-Very few people really make any differen...To Hippie-<BR/>Very few people really make any difference in the world without pointing out when the world is on the wrong track. Those people had very few friend but in the end we remember their names, because they stood for social justice. You, you feel you can make a difference with your child. You hope you can teach him or her to stand strong for what you believe in. And maybe trying to find people who have the same values as you in a changing Seattle (wealthier, private-school attending, bigger houses, bigger cars) by finding a public school where your child could learn the values you hold dear. And you can't get into AEII or Salmon Bay so you search, and no they all seems to be different than what you want for your kids. Your kids wear recycled clothes, you drive and old VW, and you can't possibly afford to have a house in the city, and you don't want them to feel excluded in their new school. They wear their hair long and maybe your family doesn't eat meat and you are worried your son won't get playdate. You are accepting but you have seen it before. People don't want your child over bacause then their kids will want to wear their hair long, etc... <BR/>Maybe you were hoping that public school is a place where the old Seattle hung out. But it is not. Alas, the old Seattle is gone and you and I should move on, because, I have a second and third grader at a NW Ballard school and although I have tried to be accepting about half of the parents look at me like I am corrupting their child. Then they say we should live and let live and stop being bigots. While our children continue to feel the pain of being not like them. The new Seattle is greedy, too busy to change the world, to help save the earth. Alas, the biggest problem facing our globe is poverty and global warming and no one in Seattle gives a damn, and instead use old Hippie quotes, "live and let live" to stop all debate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71327750420543443822008-03-16T11:43:00.000-07:002008-03-16T11:43:00.000-07:00"Interestingly, some of the worst peforming school..."Interestingly, some of the worst peforming schools (in terms of math and science) seemed to have more math and science on the walls."<BR/><BR/>I can't help connecting that with the use of pretty projects in math and science, rather than more solid curriculum. Granted, science should be hands-on and you should see "stuff" all over the classroom for it, but there aren't always a lot of nice two-dimensional results that you can hang in the halls. But you should certainly have seen things like plants or jars of worms or whatever.<BR/><BR/>I had twins in regular and Spectrum classes for two years at Whittier, and can say that there wasn't a lot of talk about it. It took some time for the kids to know that it was more than being in Ms. X's and Ms. Y's classes.<BR/><BR/>Tours are a volunteer effort and are bound to vary in quality from year to year. That was something that frustrated me about tours: it was so obvious that I was making decisions based on what was really very little data, little vibe-y things that might in reality mean nothing in the long run.<BR/><BR/>Helen SchinskeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-60683604967244749122008-03-16T11:42:00.000-07:002008-03-16T11:42:00.000-07:00To the anonymous bigot at 7:51, your list of intol...To the anonymous bigot at 7:51, your list of intolerance is growing.<BR/><BR/>So far we have:<BR/>working mothers<BR/>people who wear dress clothes<BR/>Make up<BR/>families that are religious<BR/>families who care about test scores<BR/>parents that don't hike<BR/>parents that don't hang out in parks<BR/><BR/>What else would you like to add??<BR/><BR/>Like the above poster said, if you don't like a school due to their academic performance, lack of spanish, etc. that is fine. That's why we have choice. But to shun a school based on parents wearing make up, working moms, and religion is just intolerant and wrong. Think of what you are teaching your child. You are teaching that she should only be comfortable around people just like her. She should not appreciate diversity in politics, religious beliefs, a womans right to work outside of the home, or even wear make up!! Don't pass on your uptight bigoted views on your kid. It's just wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62292907649992396312008-03-16T11:01:00.000-07:002008-03-16T11:01:00.000-07:00I toured every school in the NW cluster. In my to...I toured every school in the NW cluster. In my tours I did notice some schools did seem to have more to show off in the area of Math and Science. <BR/>Later I did look at the test scores and climate survey. I have to admit this is my first child so I am looking at every little thing. And since I work for SPS in HR I have heard that Whittier is one of the best schools (The teachers are known to be highly skilled, love kids and it is a popular choice for teachers-lots of applications whenever a spot opens).<BR/>Interestingly, some of the worst peforming schools (in terms of math and science) seemed to have more math and science on the walls.<BR/>The best tours were West Woodland and Loyal Heights, and one of the worst was Whittier but then I went back on non-touring days to all the schools and went to the assemblies and I talked to the principals and some parents before they left the assemblies and then I felt really good about Whittier. <BR/>The assembly at Whittier had more diversity than I expected and the parents all seemed relaxed and seemed connected to the school. The principal seems to really like the children and the children seemed to really like her-there was laughing and everyone seemed to be enjoying themselves. And this is the principals first year at Whittier. <BR/><BR/>The tour at Whittier was a very different experience. It seemed strained-and not very open and they seemed conservative--but not really politically--but in what they chose to share about their school. We didn't get to see enough of the classes and they made Spectrum seemed different from the school. I think they had a seperate tour. This seemed odd when you have a preschooler and you want to find a good school regardless of whether my chid needs advanced work. I would have like to see a music class, and gym class with younger kids. There was no one there from the chess club, or spanish program and I would have liked to look into more class rooms. When I went up to the Library the librarian didn't talk with us and it would have been nice to see how she is with kids. At the other schools I was taken in so many clases, library, science rooms, and the schools was showed off more. At West Woodland the Chess Coordinator was there, the Spanish program was highlighted, I felt like I had seen the whole school by the time I left. At Whittier it felt like there was more behind a curtain that I wasn't allowed to peek through.<BR/> <BR/>I honestly walked away and felt like I didn't really get to know the people or the school by the tour. If I didn't have the information I did, I may not have given it a second chance. I hope someone from Whittier is reading this so they know how their tour was received. If I get in I will try and make the tour better next year. One of the main thing Whittier could do is tour the other school just so they can see how much better other tours are. Also there was no evening tours for working parents. This give the perception that they are not trying to attract working parents, or they are not accommodating to those of us who work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77520415466038706012008-03-16T08:05:00.000-07:002008-03-16T08:05:00.000-07:00Yes I guess you are a Bigot. Once again condemning...Yes I guess you are a Bigot. Once again condemning someone for a personal choice that they make. Using test scores as one of many tools to evaluate a schools performance. <BR/><BR/> If you don't look at test scores that's fine. It is your right, but if you degrade people that do use test scores as part of their evaluation of a school, then I guess you are right. You are a bigot. And, I thought bigotry was dying off. Still alive and well apparently. Would a school with black students, Hispanics, Jews bother you too?? Or just make up, religion, test scores and who knows what else???<BR/><BR/>BigotAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72381216090921418162008-03-16T07:51:00.000-07:002008-03-16T07:51:00.000-07:00Call me a biggot but people who only focus on test...Call me a biggot but people who only focus on test scores really creep me out. Then they say in the same breath to celebrate diversity. Just not diversity in test scores. Some say that Albert Einstein could not have passed the WASL. Why is this such a focus Whittier???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23445708874424168732008-03-15T22:23:00.000-07:002008-03-15T22:23:00.000-07:00By all means address math and science, address spa...By all means address math and science, address spanish. All ver valid. But, hippies?? Make up?? Someone going to church?? C'mon now even you have to admit that is not only way over the top, it is intolerant, unaccepting, and conservative, to say the least. Lighten up. Respect others rights, and beliefs. Celebrate diversity, and remember that diversity is not only ethnic and socio economic. It is also celebrating different religions, different political views, and even to wear make up or not to wear make up, dye your hair or celebrate your gray. It's all diversity. So what I'm trying to say is judge the academics, or lack of academics (even though Whittier has stellar test scores) but don't judge people for who they are. Be tolerant and good karma will come to you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43103885609862965722008-03-15T17:25:00.000-07:002008-03-15T17:25:00.000-07:00The two latest posters have not spoken to the issu...The two latest posters have not spoken to the issues and I think the issues the Whittier tour raised are valid. Where is the math and science? Why is Spanish on hold? Why are the class sizes so big? <BR/>Those combined with not seeing parents you can identify with seem like perfectly good reasons not to choose a school.<BR/>Whittier probably needs to address those issues.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80945275586038722382008-03-15T15:27:00.000-07:002008-03-15T15:27:00.000-07:00Anonymous at 2:41Thank you , thank you thank you f...Anonymous at 2:41<BR/><BR/>Thank you , thank you thank you for your wonderful rebuttal of the posters who wrote above you. I can only imagine this is a first time parent - one who has put a few kids through the system would look back and think - was I really that intense?<BR/><BR/><BR/>And to the poster who made Whittier their second choice: aren't you glad we have a choice system - so that you were not forced to confront people who might possibly (gasp!) have a differing point of view than yours. Because we sure wouldn't want to teach our children to respect and value others, no matter what their beliefs or background.<BR/><BR/>Sheesh.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57088108539262304952008-03-15T14:41:00.000-07:002008-03-15T14:41:00.000-07:00"One of the moms was talking about their church an..."One of the moms was talking about their church and other moms just looked like they were into the heavy make-up look"<BR/><BR/>I have found that Seattlites are so liberal that they are conservative.<BR/><BR/>This is a prime example. Schools can not talk about religion, god or Christmas. They can't say the pledge of allegiance, or sing patriotic songs. That's all well and good, but now a parent can not talk about going to church??? A parent can't wear make up?? What next?? What more can you prejudice against in the name of righteousness??? Do you see how very conservative YOU are?? How very unaccepting?? It's funny because these very unaccepting conservative types are almost always democrats fighting for peace and social justice?? <BR/><BR/>Let me be straight and clear. you are never intimidated about preaching your atheist, vegan, green-hippie, organic, bike riding lifestyle, so why should someone be intimidated to talk about church, wear make up and even, oh my god do I dare say it....Christmas??<BR/><BR/>Live and let live!!!! For god sakes.<BR/><BR/>BTW I am an atheist so no religious propaganda here. I just believe that we should be more accepting of one another, and point less fingers. Leave the hissing to the cats.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71468311187911336342008-03-15T12:54:00.000-07:002008-03-15T12:54:00.000-07:00I am not the one who rejected the school based on ...I am not the one who rejected the school based on the tour.<BR/><BR/> However, even though I have friends who go to Whittier in the older grades, and was sure I would put it down without reservations, once I did the tour I wasn't so sure.<BR/> <BR/>One of the moms was talking about their church and other moms just looked like they were into the heavy make-up look, and more dressy work type outfits. They did not look like they go hiking with their kids, very often or spend their time hanging out in parks etc...<BR/><BR/>Also Spanish is on hold. They can't find a teacher, but that seems strange in such a diverse city.<BR/><BR/>They were unclear how much money they had to spend for a Spanish teacher but it looked low compared to other schools (for example West Woodland). <BR/><BR/>I saw a lot of art but no math on the walls, nor much science. I know they must do these things but it doesn't seem to be celebrated.<BR/><BR/>With all that, I decided to make it my second choice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86239645429166138702008-03-14T21:53:00.000-07:002008-03-14T21:53:00.000-07:00Anon at 10:01 - I am curious, what about the Whitt...Anon at 10:01 - I am curious, what about the Whittier tour was a total turn off? I can tell you honestly that the school is in no way "filled with conservative Christians." I mean there might be some but I either have not met them or they hide it well. Heck, I am an atheist who went to Evergreen and have never felt like I didn't fit in, seriously. The parents are just your average Ballard families for the most part. But if you didn't even put it down on your application I don't think there's much of a chance you'll end up there. I wouldn't worry too much. I know folks w/kids at all three of your other choices who really like those schools. Good luck to you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com