tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post7676049508620776148..comments2024-03-29T02:41:52.718-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Just When You Learn Rhee Won't be Secretary of Ed, Trump Goes One WorseMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72816471228629466802016-11-28T12:38:42.501-08:002016-11-28T12:38:42.501-08:00Horace, I have read what you have written. You wri...Horace, I have read what you have written. You write that there are flaws and fallacies in education degree's comment, but you don't name any of them. I guess you're right in that you didn't know where to begin.<br /><br />You began by suggesting some link between the commenter who signed "education degree" with the people with whom you work (and disrespect) who also have graduate degrees in education. There is no such link. The comment stands (or falls) on its own merit regardless of your opinion of other people with similar credentials.<br /><br />You followed up this ad hominem attack with a straw man argument by asking "are you suggesting that our past public education system was an equal system?" There is no evidence of any such suggestion. The original statement was "<i>A private education system, without accountability leads to a much more unequal education system than the public system we have today.</i>" There is no claim that the current system is particularly equitable, only that a more privatized system would be less so. You did not dispute this part of the comment, so I can only assume that if you find the current system unbearably inequitable, you would find the even less equitable privatized system to be that much worse. You sure sound argumentative for someone who shares education degree's desire for an equitable system.<br /><br />Then you proclaim that education professors and historians suffer from group think - as if that reflected personally on the commenter or their professor, though, again, you don't offer an opposing view. In fact, your comment is almost entirely without a clear purpose other than to harangue the previous commenter even though, and this is the odd part, you claim to share their concerns for equity in the education system.<br /><br />You close your arrogant and dismissive rant by accusing the other party of being high handed. I love the irony of that part. I guess we should thank you for your three proclamations from on high - 1) that graduate education degrees are "diluted" and worthless, 2) that the current public education system is inequitable, and 3) that there is little diversity of thought among academia in college education departments. So here you go: Thanks for the info, Horace. I can't imagine how we might otherwise have suspected any of those to be true.<br /><br />That was sarcasm for those who have trouble detecting it.<br /><br />If there were a flaw or a fallacy in education degree's comment, you never mentioned one. Instead, you made a comment that was lousy with flaws and fallacies for yourself.<br /><br />And, just for the record, Horace, the difference between you and me is not tone or belligerence - I have no delusions that I sometimes take a harsh tone. The difference is that I directed my critique to your actual statements, not to you as a person and not to things that you did not say. You delivered your vitriol to education degree as a person and to things that education degree never asserted.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71822868227125352092016-11-26T11:22:39.236-08:002016-11-26T11:22:39.236-08:00Melissa runs an effective blog that won't allo...Melissa runs an effective blog that won't allow Stand for Children, LEV and DFER from dominating the conversation and message.<br /><br />I'm grateful!Happy Thanksgiving!noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86860016732649755392016-11-26T11:11:27.666-08:002016-11-26T11:11:27.666-08:00Horace, nothing I say seems to please you so sure,...Horace, nothing I say seems to please you so sure, you can leave.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18982189863863329602016-11-26T10:32:37.723-08:002016-11-26T10:32:37.723-08:00"Second, are you suggesting that our past pub..."Second, are you suggesting that our past public education system was an equal system?"<br />No I am suggesting that there was a much more unequal system prior to the creation of a public education system in the US. Prior many kids did not attend school. <br /><br />Everybody seems to have opinions on our public educational system whether they have studied the area or not. One thing that has changed over time is that public schools have been asked to do more. There is no doubt that public schools are offering more programs now than in the past. I do believe education historians and professors have alot to offer to the discussion. They have studied the issue, and I personally have respect for people with opinions who study a subject in its compexity. <br />-Education degreeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-37532299964022747992016-11-26T07:57:58.565-08:002016-11-26T07:57:58.565-08:00CT, what do you think "bedfellows" means...CT, what do you think "bedfellows" means? You suggest that DFER and Trump are bedfellows but when someone levels the same accusation at you, it's uncalled for and repulsive. Why was it OK for you but not for me?<br /><br />Also, in terms of Melissa's tone policing, I've only been following the lead of Charlie, CT, et al who regularly spew vitriol and invective toward those with whom they disagree. But according to Melissa, that's just blunt talk. I'm unpleasant and need to leave.<br /><br />The hypocrisy demonstrated here is stunning but not surprising. Yep hit the nail on the head. Melissa always excuses the behavior of those with whom she agrees and disparages the same behavior when shown by those whom she disagrees. Tribalism at its best!<br /><br />HoraceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66819432753211946442016-11-25T19:18:54.347-08:002016-11-25T19:18:54.347-08:00Being accused of "getting in bed with Trump&q...Being accused of "getting in bed with Trump" was 1) uncalled for & 2) completely repulsive. This was less than 3 hours after having some drunk Trump supporter downtown in my face calling me several derogatory names for the sole crime of being female & walking on the sidewalk. Not taking kindly to Horace's insinuations nor the Trump fanatics tonight. <br /><br />CTCTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86058974364924139492016-11-25T18:12:08.009-08:002016-11-25T18:12:08.009-08:00Yep, you are right.
CT, not good. You need to wat...Yep, you are right.<br /><br />CT, not good. You need to watch your tone as well.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8311977448843269602016-11-25T17:44:31.759-08:002016-11-25T17:44:31.759-08:00CTs response to Horace was also pleasant and matur...CTs response to Horace was also pleasant and mature. Clearly, only those who agree with your opinions can be crass while those who don't should take their opinions elsewhere.Yepnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-16407456948759148662016-11-25T15:01:25.751-08:002016-11-25T15:01:25.751-08:00Yep, Charlie is blunt but Horace is unpleasant.Yep, Charlie is blunt but Horace is unpleasant.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22236652692403588952016-11-25T14:56:32.065-08:002016-11-25T14:56:32.065-08:00Sorry Horace, you are completely clueless in your ...Sorry Horace, you are completely clueless in your "observations". While I may dislike Common Core, it is for different reasons that the anti-gov't right-wingers, and I would never support a racist, sexist, misogynist, xenophobic pig like Trump. I see common core as a much lesser issue than charter schools, vouchers, child labor, school privatization, etc. Take your inferences and stick them where the sun don't shine. CTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81797778999009000862016-11-25T14:10:13.239-08:002016-11-25T14:10:13.239-08:00I think Horace's tone is about the same as Cha...I think Horace's tone is about the same as Charlie's. This is a case of "do as we say, not as we do."Yepnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88294128081049420782016-11-25T10:56:02.838-08:002016-11-25T10:56:02.838-08:00Horace, you might want not just check yourself but...Horace, you might want not just check yourself but maybe leave. Your remarks are mean-spirited and are not helping the conversation. <br /><br />I'm not going to even start a dialog about the state of public education and what is to come if this is your tone.<br /><br />Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-2397722084698439792016-11-25T10:00:06.856-08:002016-11-25T10:00:06.856-08:00I appreciate education degree's comments.
It ...I appreciate education degree's comments.<br /><br />It would seem to me that Common Core is now a state issue.<br /><br />At some point, I hope Horace decides to stop attacking people and stick to the facts. His/her rhetoric is rather annoying.<br /><br />.Disgustednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62417579811478934812016-11-25T09:07:27.071-08:002016-11-25T09:07:27.071-08:00education degree, there are so many flaws and fall...education degree, there are so many flaws and fallacies in your thinking, it's hard to know where to begin. But let's begin with your disclaimer --- you have a graduate degree in education. I have a graduate degree in education and over 30 years in public education, in one form or another. I can't go throughout my professional day without being surrounded by people with graduate degrees in education. And I can tell you --- the degree means very little these days, it's been so diluted. So if you're trying to convey that you have some unique wisdom to impart, check yourself. There's more people here on this blog without graduate degrees in education whose judgment on schools I'd trust over those with them.<br /><br />Second, are you suggesting that our past public education system was an equal system? If so, you have no credibility. Ask the many parents on this blog whose children are in special education or highly capable programs. Ask poor families. Ask families of color. This public education system was designed to deliver unequal results and its been highly successful in doing so. Don't even get me started on equitable access. Public education in our country has been an unmitigated disaster at delivering equity for all students.<br /><br />Third, education professors and historians have been some of the most monolithic thinkers I have ever encountered. Their biases in favor of maintaining the current system would be laughable if it weren't so dangerous. In other fields such as hard sciences, business, engineering, etc., there are at least divergent opinions. Not so in schools of education.<br /><br />But thanks for stopping by to school us from on high.<br /><br />HoraceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-3484710790536242432016-11-25T08:00:16.287-08:002016-11-25T08:00:16.287-08:00I am afraid my prediction was correct. Trump is a ...I am afraid my prediction was correct. Trump is a business man and this represents more money to the corporate rich, a largely untapped market to exploit. The continued dismantling of our public education system, which has been the foundation of our democracy. My ed history professors warned us this was beginning to happen twenty years ago. The public K-12 education system a "new frontier" to be exploited for private corporate gain. Unfortunately the outcomes are not good for democracy and there are examples to prove it. A private education system, without accountability leads to a much more unequal education system than the public system we have today. I suggest people without opinions start reading education professors and historians materials on this issue. Disclaimer, I have a graduate degree in education. <br />-education degree Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76040408992714452592016-11-24T21:58:33.033-08:002016-11-24T21:58:33.033-08:00Horace,
I hope you enjoy your Trump schools, I m...Horace, <br /><br />I hope you enjoy your Trump schools, I mean Charter schools. Given his track record for fraud and racketeering with his own university, its no wonder he supports corporate charters.<br /><br />--WA Bat Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-37202828304000488692016-11-24T12:56:19.205-08:002016-11-24T12:56:19.205-08:00I'll be watching intently, Chris S. and CT, wh...I'll be watching intently, Chris S. and CT, when you all get in bed with Trump against Common Core. Wonder what all those BATs are gonna say then. Will you all be embarrassed over your bedfellows? I guess you won't since you haven't been so far.<br /><br />HoraceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88035075605457068132016-11-24T09:27:20.042-08:002016-11-24T09:27:20.042-08:00Title 1 is a scam milked by the Urban leagues of A...Title 1 is a scam milked by the Urban leagues of American. I won't get into the link between immigration and title 1 because someone might get triggered. <br /><br />End PC Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-48223309980701736712016-11-24T08:56:23.578-08:002016-11-24T08:56:23.578-08:00Where is the federal government supposed to get th...Where is the federal government supposed to get the money to give each student in Washington $12,000? There are no private schools looking to serve a high poverty population in exchange for their Title I funds.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39931737882473416762016-11-24T07:54:54.810-08:002016-11-24T07:54:54.810-08:00You have got to be kidding me, Reykdal needs to ta...You have got to be kidding me, Reykdal needs to take a reality break and visit JSCEE just to see how F-ed up a well funded district can be. It sounds like he thinks Obooma's DE is fabulous. This guy is a smuck. The thing he doesn't understand is that the voucher system bypasses the state and the LEDs by granting the money straight to the student. There will be nothing for guys like Reykdal to think about.<br /><br />Parents can use the money for educational expenses.<br /><br />Home schooling<br />private schooling<br />special educational support<br /><br />Goodbye Union Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77467312737044547992016-11-24T00:19:36.773-08:002016-11-24T00:19:36.773-08:00Chris Reykdal was quick to respond and he gets it ...Chris Reykdal was quick to respond and he gets it right:<br /><br />""We'll figure out which Donald Trump philosophy emerges: The candidate who wanted the smaller role for the feds or the transition team who wants a big aggressive school privatization agenda," Reykdal said.<br /><br />He said states will have to decide whether to accept federal education policy in return for getting the money that goes along with it. Washington is struggling with how to adequately pay for education under a state court order. "<br /><br />http://kuow.org/post/what-will-trumps-pick-education-secretary-mean-washingtons-schools<br /><br />Here is a good article:<br /><br />http://www.slate.com/articles/life/education/2016/11/how_trump_and_education_secretary_betsy_devos_could_gut_public_education.htmlWatchingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-4441903031984195922016-11-23T22:49:41.327-08:002016-11-23T22:49:41.327-08:00Link to:
The Acton Institute for the study of Re...Link to:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.acton.org/" rel="nofollow"> <b>The Acton Institute </b>for the study of Religion and Liberty</a><br /><br />Betsy DeVos was a Board Member of the Acton Institute from 1995 to 2005.<br /><br />================<br />From the Acton website:<br /><br /><i>“Great men are almost always bad men,” the British historian Lord Acton claimed. <b>We do not have a political system in America today that fosters healthy competition, moral character, or true statesmen</b>. Instead, we have a system that breeds distrust, envy, and division. From a republic that depended upon the health and vitality of families, churches, and various other forms of association, we have become a polity that encourages “great men” to rise up, make us grand promise, and perhaps even worse, attempt to begin to deliver on some of these through political means.<br />Somehow America has to find a way forward. Hopefully we can do so with fewer illusions about what we really are able to design and with better ideas about what is actually necessary for a free and virtuous society.</i>dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38823980897478211462016-11-23T21:25:26.949-08:002016-11-23T21:25:26.949-08:00DeVos is also a creationist, hence the reason she ...DeVos is also a creationist, hence the reason she loves vouchers so much. Get those public dollars flowing to religious schools! Boy oh boy, Trump has gathered the worst of the worst for his picks. Bush picked a lot of unqualified idiots for his positions, but Trump has trumped almost everything W did. Just needs a war & weapons of mass deception, and he's got him beat by a mile. <br /> <br />And no, DFER is not embarrassed about their bedfellows. Didn't happen when they ended up partnering with the swiftboaters in Massachusetts for Question 2, won't happen now. They LIKE DeVos. <br /><br />We're screwed. <br /><br />CTAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34741746946393231512016-11-23T18:07:22.882-08:002016-11-23T18:07:22.882-08:00Lest you think I'm kidding, here's an entr...Lest you think I'm kidding, <a href="http://blog.acton.org/archives/89837-bring-back-child-labor-work-is-a-gift-our-kids-can-handle.html" rel="nofollow">here's an entry</a> from the "Acton Institute Power Blog" about how we should eliminate compulsory school attendance and let our urchins get to work at Chick-Fil-A now, presumably because that's where they're going to be working forever. Enjoy!Josh Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17242600011474990770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5164518982102193382016-11-23T18:02:30.243-08:002016-11-23T18:02:30.243-08:00Maybe DFER will finally get embarrassed about who ...Maybe DFER will finally get embarrassed about who they are in bed with. And, I guess you have the DOE to make sure all your buddies get first crack at the ed market.<br /><br />Chris S.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com