tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post7768586339716720068..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Tuesday Open ThreadMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger64125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63995392785086722122015-01-13T11:51:55.512-08:002015-01-13T11:51:55.512-08:00"SS, in the 8th grade yearbook photo from HIM..."SS, in the 8th grade yearbook photo from HIMS last year, students held up signs that spelled out "disapproval" or something similar. The letters were digitally removed from the final print. Was their moment of protest related to administration? A teacher? Something else?"<br /><br />Sorry, anon at 10:34, I don't know what you're talking about, and I don't see how it's relevant here anyway. Are you suggesting it is somehow related to Mr. Greenberg's time at HIMS?<br /><br />SSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53950747768488195132015-01-13T11:49:18.214-08:002015-01-13T11:49:18.214-08:00mirmac1,I don't know you and have no idea what...mirmac1,I don't know you and have no idea what, if anything, you would have to gain by making stuff up. Maybe you're a district official, someone with an axe to grind against the district or particular district staff, a friend of Mr. Greenberg, etc. I have no clue, and it doesn't really matter. That's not the point.<br /><br />I also never suggested that you were making things up in the first place. My only comments were to the fact that there had been no evidence presented that the recent suspension was in fact based on the past actions, and therefore it seemed possible that the new suspension was based on a new incident. Without information, it's hard to make a call. It seems like a lot of people, however, are perfectly willing to just assume one thing or another, in the absence of actual data. Your "your information matches with mine" comment addressed a post that similarly lacked any detail or real sense of insider knowledge as to what's really going on here. It came off instead as "yes, I can confirm that I've heard the same rumor, so it must be true."<br /><br />I'm not saying--at all--that things aren't exactly as you claim them to be. It may very well be the true that the district has slapped on a second punishment for the same offense. The recent article in the Seattle PI does seem to suggest this to be the case, although the sloppiness of the article raises a bit of suspicion as to the overall accuracy of any of it. However, I don't know you, don't know where you get your facts or hear your rumors, and I hate to see people jumping on the bandwagon just because someone guesses that this must be payback for JG. I assume you agree with me that you'd like to see people on the blog act in the face of good evidence, not hearsay, right? <br /><br />Oh, and thanks for the reminder that people can always request public records. I'm not particularly interested in the ins and outs of an individual personal personnel matters, although I do hope that JL takes the issue up with SPS via his union if he feels he's receiving a second punishment for the same thing. If that's the case, it certainly doesn't seem right. <br /><br />SSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18085977319586695732015-01-12T22:34:18.723-08:002015-01-12T22:34:18.723-08:00SS, in the 8th grade yearbook photo from HIMS last...SS, in the 8th grade yearbook photo from HIMS last year, students held up signs that spelled out "disapproval" or something similar. The letters were digitally removed from the final print. Was their moment of protest related to administration? A teacher? Something else?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76916616848337189252015-01-12T21:31:09.088-08:002015-01-12T21:31:09.088-08:00SS
You have every right to request public records...SS<br /><br />You have every right to request public records. Furthermore, you can contact those involved. Do not ask me because I will not divulge. Then ponder what do I possibly have to gain for making stuff up?<br /><br />That last one was rhetorical, of course.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54113559401908750952015-01-12T12:16:27.425-08:002015-01-12T12:16:27.425-08:00@mirmac1, which is WHAT exactly? What is the speci...@mirmac1, which is WHAT exactly? What is the specific infraction cited in the recent suspension?<br /><br />SSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24242622974363732302015-01-12T12:04:35.399-08:002015-01-12T12:04:35.399-08:00ModernSound,
Your information matches with mine.ModernSound,<br /><br />Your information matches with mine.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5021506073467871282015-01-12T10:02:42.913-08:002015-01-12T10:02:42.913-08:00@ ModernSound, do you have direct evidence that th...@ ModernSound, do you have direct evidence that the recent suspension was based on the past incident? Or is is possible that the new disciplinary action stemmed from an unrelated event? I understand why everyone is willing to assume the worst about SPS, but it's possible these assumptions are not 100% correct, isn't it?<br /><br />Should've SupplementedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40652581836315022612015-01-11T22:57:01.281-08:002015-01-11T22:57:01.281-08:00"Anonymous said...
I heard from a teacher fri..."Anonymous said...<br />I heard from a teacher friend that Jon Greenberg at Center School was suspended without pay for 2 weeks. It must be payback time for him from the administration for winning his job back last year."<br /><br />Yes, Greenberg was administratively transferred to another school for the 2013 - 2014 school year. Being administratively transferred IS a disciplinary action. <br /><br />In August 2014 Greenberg won this case a yearlong arbitration process with the District and with it the right to return to Center School given . <br /><br />He went on unpaid leave for this first semester.<br />After his win he was then banned from setting foot onto the Center School campus over this first semester, even to prepare for second semester.<br /><br />So now, a semester AFTER having won his case, he is to get slapped with a two - week suspension?<br /><br />This is saying: Okay, we disciplined you nearly two years ago, but now that you won your case against us, we find we NEED to discipline you some more.<br />Is he being punished for winning or for making the District or the Center School principal look bad?<br /><br />Although I don't know any teachers in the District that use the term "getting Greenberg-ed" as has been mentioned on this blog , I can say that those sentiments are very real.<br /><br />--ModernSoundAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72689490834572400742015-01-09T19:10:29.262-08:002015-01-09T19:10:29.262-08:00Without any evidence as to what's really happe...<i>Without any evidence as to what's really happening here, I prefer to reserve judgment.</i> <br /><br />Well said. "Conversations" with people do not comprise evidence. I've seen first-hand many examples of resentment towards popular teachers. But I'm not there so I will give Greenberg and his student/parent supporters the benefit of the doubt. After all, aren't they the reason he's teaching?nnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-12763877683138111182015-01-09T15:33:59.291-08:002015-01-09T15:33:59.291-08:00SPS administrators make some dumb decisions, and i...SPS administrators make some dumb decisions, and it's not hard to believe that they might re-punish him for the same offense. Teachers--even those popular with students and parents--can also make dumb decisions sometimes, and it's not hard to believe that a reinstated teacher who feels vindicated might push the limits again to make a point. Or do something else inappropriate but totally unrelated. Without any evidence as to what's really happening here, I prefer to reserve judgment. <br /><br />That's great that fellow teachers are supportive, and good for them for writing a letter if they feel certain that this was an instance of "double jeopardy." But their letter isn't really evidence that this is a second punishment for the same offense. They may be interpreting it that way when it's not the case. Or they may have been told that by the teacher, who is presumably the only one allowed to share that information. A teacher facing disciplinary action for inappropriate behavior may be inclined to "spin" the story a bit--especially when there's an easy excuse and a public inclined to believe. <br /><br />The point is, most of us likely don't have good information on which to assess whether this suspension is right or wrong. We can get worked up all we like, but our positions are clearly based on our own biases. <br /><br />Half FullAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80801149600345770362015-01-09T10:43:46.542-08:002015-01-09T10:43:46.542-08:00Why would the Center School staff send an urgent l...Why would the Center School staff send an urgent letter to Nyland urging him to reinstate Greenberg if they disliked him? Their signatures are on this letter. <br /><br />What is wrong with this district is that it looks petty and stupid for removing iconic teachers from schools. Our son had Greenberg’s class on race years ago and he is the kind of teacher you want in SPS. <br /><br />SPS should be promoting the Center School as a city wide alternative for families who want a smaller high school with caring teachers. Instead, they pick battles with individuals like Greenberg who was strong enough to fight back. <br /><br />Charters will come in and take students away from schools like Center if the administration does not nurture them and support their staff and mission. <br /><br />Greenberg’s class is highly popular and one of the reasons parents send their kids to this school.<br /><br />S parent<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13668727991683642262015-01-09T09:34:33.687-08:002015-01-09T09:34:33.687-08:00Let me be clear. I wasn't trying to assassina...Let me be clear. I wasn't trying to assassinate his character, though I could see, mirmac, how it might come off that way. It wasn't my intention. So, here's why I think it matters:<br /><br />If you're part of a good school teaching staff, you're part of a collaborative team. Teachers support each other, or do their best to do so. When there is someone on that staff who feels above it all and treats his/her colleagues with disdain, it's toxic (especially if that teacher is popular among the students, but not among his/her peers). And when this disdain extends, which it almost always does, to administration and the district as a whole, it is an untenable situation.<br /><br />And when that teacher becomes the center of a school controversy, it inevitably divides the school. There will be those among the staff who side with the teacher and there will be those among the staff who, while they may not agree with the actions of the administration, feel no obligation to support a colleague who has ignored and/or dismissed them previously. It always ends badly.<br /><br />And in these cases, it's not about jealousy/envy. It's about mutual respect and collaboration and these "star" teachers tend to undercut the collaborative nature of a strong teaching staff.<br /><br />Finally, I'm not saying this is definitely whats going on here. I don't have any details. But from what I've gathered from conversations, there's a side to this larger story that isn't always acknowledged.<br /><br />--- swkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-78387703944183727952015-01-09T09:10:17.608-08:002015-01-09T09:10:17.608-08:00Reposting for no-name:
"Sometimes a teacher ...Reposting for no-name:<br /><br />"Sometimes a teacher going their own way results in better outcomes for students - I can think of several math teachers that supplant the CMP and Discovering texts to achieve great results. Sometimes a teacher goes their own way and students are left not learning the base level standards for the course. If ideology and personal agenda get in the way of student learning, that's a problem, no matter if a teacher is liked or not."<br /><br />And I'll second that--especially the last part, which was my child's experience. Then again, if you put a "great" teacher in a new school, working with a new population that has unique needs, and don't provide much of a curriculum, it probably shouldn't have come as a surprise when personal agenda trumps the basics--especially if the teacher is hoping to not stick around at the school. <br /><br />Should've SupplementedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91573292666992466152015-01-09T08:28:15.313-08:002015-01-09T08:28:15.313-08:00I was given a copy of a letter to Nyland from the ...I was given a copy of a letter to Nyland from the Center School staff. They urge him to withdraw the 2 week suspension, saying it is time to put the controversy from two years ago behind them.<br /><br />They say that continuing to pursue this punishment comes off as needlessly punitive and will disrupt student learning. They want to move forward.<br /><br />S parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46258283960161479702015-01-09T07:54:37.797-08:002015-01-09T07:54:37.797-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81010891371562517662015-01-08T23:23:32.406-08:002015-01-08T23:23:32.406-08:00swk, some of your best teachers don't always g...swk, some of your best teachers don't always get along with the rest of staff. There is a resentment that forms when teachers are too respected or admired by parents or kids. I happened to watch <i>Amadeus</i> over winter break. Resentment and envy/jealously is very common in education as it is in almost every area of life. Perhaps more so in the arts and I believe educating kids is an art rather than a science. <br /><br />That may be the debate. nnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-60752108466356606562015-01-08T22:19:09.147-08:002015-01-08T22:19:09.147-08:00Thank goodness for the "malcontents" who...Thank goodness for the "malcontents" who are critical of the latest bs educational fad.<br /><br />Common SenseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57560860943464938612015-01-08T20:51:16.028-08:002015-01-08T20:51:16.028-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8523811156224360022015-01-08T20:03:30.427-08:002015-01-08T20:03:30.427-08:00swk
and that should matter....how? Sounds like b...swk<br /><br />and that should matter....how? Sounds like backhanded character assassination, and beneath you. I have heard from teachers that the Center School principal is...well, you know.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5632596063791320932015-01-08T14:17:15.906-08:002015-01-08T14:17:15.906-08:00I've heard from some teacher friends of mine t...I've heard from some teacher friends of mine that Jon Greenberg is that teacher that all of us current or former teachers know very well: He's that teacher who is perpetually angry around adults; feels morally superior to most of his/her peers and thus treats them with disdain; sits in the back of the room at all school meetings fuming over the "waste of time" and/or grading papers and/or reading his/her smartphone instead of paying attention; and avoids all mandated professional development unless forced to attend by the principal or union rep.<br /><br />And sometimes these malcontents are great teachers. They can also be terrible colleagues. They are loved by their students but hated by their fellow teachers.<br /><br />From what my teacher friends tell me who've been around him, this is a fairly accurate description of Jon Greenberg. <br /><br />--- swkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-12382548838558385542015-01-08T12:13:26.190-08:002015-01-08T12:13:26.190-08:00Teachers should be afraid.
There is a phrase tea...Teachers should be afraid. <br /><br />There is a phrase teachers use when considering what to teach to our children:<br /><br />"I don't want to get Greenburged."<br /><br />Sad.Po3noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22183456710881231132015-01-08T10:08:56.796-08:002015-01-08T10:08:56.796-08:00Melissa, that concerns me tooMelissa, that concerns me toomirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19022750350732929272015-01-08T09:50:28.888-08:002015-01-08T09:50:28.888-08:00Wondering, I plan on a longer thread but yes, Carr...Wondering, I plan on a longer thread but yes, Carr runs very hot and cold.<br /><br />One minute she's forthright and law-and-order - she'll say amazing things out loud at committee meetings - but then, wag her finger and vote yes anyway.<br /><br />I don't get it except to say that I believe the majority of the Board is being pressured to truly take control and ignore any outside pressure (note I did not say staff pressure). <br /><br />It's maddening because she's one of the smartest people up there and I had hoped, for a long time that SHE would be board president. Guess I was wrong.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54916653923549900352015-01-08T08:51:34.579-08:002015-01-08T08:51:34.579-08:00What gives with Director Carr?
Does she "hol...What gives with Director Carr?<br /><br />Does she "hold her nose", and, vote for it anyway?<br /><br />If she herself identified there is a whole lot wrong with the 'relationship' if the Alliance won't even meet because they are holding out for "neutral territory" (WTF?), then, why would she just blindly rubber stamp the whole thing? Why not do the right thing, defer, until such time as the meeting/diligence/negotiations had been completed?<br /><br />I don't get why she would say (correctly) one thing, then act disregarding her own misgivings and be cowed and do another thing (vote yes).<br /><br />Not being snarky, I just don't understand. <br /><br />And, Director Peters rocks. She has intelligence and courage. She is all about being reasonable; when unreasonable things are presented, she is the one who questions and then cannot vote yes if the reasonable questions have no answers.<br /><br />Someone can enlighten me about Director Carr? She is also very intelligent, but, she does not seem particularly courageous. Is she a make no waves person? Does that explain the difference between what she says and how she votes?<br /><br /><br />wonderingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47112063288758122902015-01-07T20:09:50.132-08:002015-01-07T20:09:50.132-08:00Wright already has admitted he: screwed up; didn&#...Wright already has admitted he: screwed up; didn't "know" the policy; hid info; said he didn't know he had to keep the board apprised on Alliance "negotiations". Right. More like "Alliance, tell me what you want and I'll get it rubberstamped." So he encountered a brief hiccup. But if we have a board where the majority continues to believe the JSCEE suits over teachers, parents and others - just may as well sign the blank check and hand over the direction and mission of this district to Gates, his PPPE, Alliance front, and paid political hacks.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.com