tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post7783003236374426706..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Two New Studies With Huge ImplicationsMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84918771601518042012008-06-19T14:53:00.000-07:002008-06-19T14:53:00.000-07:00and, no, I don't believe my 7 year old, though mig...and, no, I don't believe my 7 year old, though mighty bright, has reached her highest level of cognitive function (or at least I hope not). :-)<BR/><BR/>The point was not whether there's room for improvement, but whether standard testing can measure itzbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205346985598789513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5137598323229957032008-06-19T14:49:00.000-07:002008-06-19T14:49:00.000-07:00I don't know if there are problems with high achie...I don't know if there are problems with high achieving students getting neglected, because I'm not convinced that a teacher's time is the right metric. <BR/><BR/>I do think that a high-achieving child deserves to be encouraged and pushed, too, but sometimes that can be done with very little time. It depends on the child, and what they want to do. <BR/><BR/>But, the real point I was trying to make is Helen's -- test scores on "in level" tests mean little when you're looking at the educational needs/success/progress of high achieving children.zbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205346985598789513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88988551605256312282008-06-19T07:32:00.000-07:002008-06-19T07:32:00.000-07:00I have no problem with the top level of scores on ...I have no problem with the top level of scores on a grade-level test being stagnant. There are many other ways to test whether students at the top are being challenged appropriately. I'd much rather they didn't *try* to use the grade-level tests to do what they were not designed to do.<BR/><BR/>Sure, there are problems with high-achieving students getting neglected under NCLB, but the test score stagnation is the wrong data to be looking at, because it's going to occur anyway. <BR/><BR/>Helen Schinskehschinskehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10316478950862562594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24325223853109472812008-06-19T07:26:00.000-07:002008-06-19T07:26:00.000-07:00I might expect that, too but given that the teache...I might expect that, too but given that the teachers in the accompanying study (75% of them) say that they devote more of their time to lower achieving students because they were trying to achieve higher test scores.<BR/><BR/>That tells me that they feel the pressure more on the bottom end rather than trying to help every child because of testing and that they are willing to admit (likely with frustration) that they are not helping all students. <BR/><BR/>ZB, maybe you think there's no room for improvement in your child's learning (or maybe you just mean in reading) but from a broader perspective, every child needs to encouraged and pushed.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-52913526708168926542008-06-18T17:22:00.000-07:002008-06-18T17:22:00.000-07:00Presumably this would be addressed in a real study...Presumably this would be addressed in a real study, but one would expect, mathematically for gains at the top of the scores to be less than gains at the bottom of the scores, especially given that such scores are likely to see saturation effects. That is, some portion of kids in the top 10% are scoring the equivalent of 800s (or 2400s) on the SATs, so they have no where to move up at all. <BR/><BR/>The numbers themselves would not cause me to interpret the result being at all the fault of NCLB, unless a different pattern was seen before. <BR/><BR/>My 1st grader apparently has the reading level of a 10th grader. If you look for improvement of her scores over the next 11 years, and presuming that reading levels actually max out at 12th grade, she's not going to move up very much. <BR/><BR/>(I haven't read the study, so my criticism might not apply, and they might address it. But, the numbers you summarize don't mean much)zbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205346985598789513noreply@blogger.com