tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post7911962322594376618..comments2024-03-29T02:41:52.718-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Lowell Meeting ReduxMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger171125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34245405982573258102011-07-05T13:23:30.097-07:002011-07-05T13:23:30.097-07:00I understood that the announcement for next year&#...I understood that the announcement for next year's plans would be on July 8. The deadline for responses to the district survey is July 6.<br /><br />I didn't expect any communication (good or bad) until Friday.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15865045236419852582011-07-05T12:17:00.476-07:002011-07-05T12:17:00.476-07:00So no news good news from SPS about the Lowell mov...So no news good news from SPS about the Lowell move until Friday?<br /><br />Lowell ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30152896466905344572011-07-04T14:58:36.144-07:002011-07-04T14:58:36.144-07:00Yes, damned when I do, the gender-split info was o...Yes, damned when I do, the gender-split info was on the website when the split was announced, so it wasn't some crazy rumor. Also, APP parents specifically were admonished not to go flooding down to TM to info-gather and otherwise overwhelm the exist TM school as they processed the future for their site, so it truly was damned if I do, damned if I don't.djhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01720927162286657378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54282803565214063812011-07-04T08:48:44.689-07:002011-07-04T08:48:44.689-07:00Yes, the gender split, the uniforms, etc. I remem...Yes, the gender split, the uniforms, etc. I remember that, and hunting around the TM website (which was badly out of date) and I was unable to find any reference to a PTA. If there was an active one, that's great. I believe there are supplemental funds for schools that don't raise PTA funds, so I'd expect at least a minimal one most places.<br /><br />But this does remind me of Ben's original point: wearing uniforms because it shows "we are ready to learn" (which was the phrase as I recall)---that's a fine message but IMHO isn't super-relevant for a group of kids who tested at 95% on acheivement tests. Those kids have other challenges---e.g., some of them can overvalue academic acheivement at the expense of other areas of activity and growth, since after all academics are what adults make such a fuss over.<br /><br />I'm not at TM, so I'm going to exit this thread...but I sure hope people like ben can be heard (right or wrong) without being drowned out by happy talk.Damned When I Donoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23526082146052781732011-07-03T08:58:32.424-07:002011-07-03T08:58:32.424-07:00Damned When I Do-people "heard" a lot of...Damned When I Do-people "heard" a lot of things about Thurgood Marshall before the split-I remember reading on this blog (I think) that people also heard that in addition to their being no PTA, that the kids were split according to gender, something that hadn't been in place in several years. They heard about longer school days and that too, hadn't been in palce for years. <br /><br />Very few bothered to reach out to Thurgood Marshall and ASK. As I said in my post to Ben-the two PTA's worked together over the summer before the first post-split year. That only happened because someone reached out and ASKED. I'm sure the merge would have been smoother if more parents had done so rather than spread what they "heard" to be gospel about how the school operated.ALO friendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23037844139459492752011-07-03T08:52:08.060-07:002011-07-03T08:52:08.060-07:00Ben, if you were at Thurgood Marshall the first ye...Ben, if you were at Thurgood Marshall the first year after the split, on the first day of school the newly merged PTA officers got up and spoke about the work they did over the summer to help bring the two populations together. I know this because, as I said, I know some of the women involved and I know what some of their concerns were as they talked.<br /><br />They could not have MERGED the PTA's if Thurgood Marshall hadn't HAD one!And if you missed that first day, you surely attended some of the PTA events-as an involved parent. Did you never think to wonder where the ALO PTA came from? <br /><br />I said you were either a liar or misinformed. You may also be uninvolved, and maybe that's where your lack of information stems from. <br /><br />Look, I KNOW there have been problems. But there have been many posts here from APP-south parents who are not seeing the negativity you do. You've painted it in that negative light since the beginning (I'm a long-time reader). <br /><br />It comes up often among more affluent parents that poor schools have no PTA's and that just isn't always true. They may not raise tons of money, but PTA's do other worthy things and the parents get little or no credit when it comes to the lower-income schools. Parents there are seen as uninterested and uninvolved, happy to let problems lie-and it really hurts.<br /><br />It sounds like some of the APP parents posting her have made the effort to "reach across the aisle" and include ALO parents. Seeing their PARENTS work together is the best way to get the KIDS working together, no?ALO friendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30426185190238845872011-07-02T23:45:06.345-07:002011-07-02T23:45:06.345-07:00Just reading through blog posts from the first spl...Just reading through blog posts from the first split (Jan 09)...this was a post from "another mom":<br /><br /><i>The 2007 APP Program review team suggested developing a vision, goals, and curriculum framework prior to any reconfiguration of the program. That same report goes on to say the curriculum should be fully functional prior to any change in the program. So much for expensive outside reviews.</i><br /><br />This work has yet to be completed, and here we are facing another major change, with the curriculum still in flux.<br /><br />frustrated as wellAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-74626302850923082982011-07-02T23:11:25.393-07:002011-07-02T23:11:25.393-07:00I said there was "basically" no PTA at T...I said there was "basically" no PTA at TM pre-APP. I wasn't there (my kid was going to Lowell then), but this is what I've been told. I don't think there's any reason to call me a liar. <br /><br />My type of attitude. And what of yours?<br /><br />(And don't forget to call "Damned When I Do" a liar too. He or she claims to have heard the same thing I did about the TM PTA.)Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18365355509420961754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66439441293995766522011-07-02T23:02:04.069-07:002011-07-02T23:02:04.069-07:00Ben, that is absolutely NOT TRUE that TM had no PT...Ben, that is absolutely NOT TRUE that TM had no PTA until APP arrived. I personally know two of the women (quite well) who were members at the time of the split. They were very active in volunteering with the school and worked very hard with the incoming Lowell PTA members. <br /><br />They helped put on joint events-one was a dance that first year that from what they've said was fairly well attended by both groups. The TM had also run fundraisers in the past. They most certainly WERE active! You're either utterly misinformed or just lying to make yourself sound more sympathetic. <br /><br />With the misinformation you're spreading and your type of attitude, I can see why it's tough for some to accept any kind of merge.ALO friendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35250656746390419792011-07-02T19:31:07.322-07:002011-07-02T19:31:07.322-07:00Ben --- I should have been clearer on that point.....Ben --- I should have been clearer on that point...we're not at TM, but prior to the split I did hear that the PTA was basically non-existent. <br /><br />If APP at Lowell moves to Lincoln, I have no idea what will happen as far as parent volunteering/PTA stuff goes. Maybe it will disappear and Lowell will be like TM was before the split? I hope not.<br /><br />I take it as a given that parental involvement at a school is a net positive for the school, and a major one at that. I suspect some families are not engaged in that way because they don't share that assumption, in which case they might see parents-at-the-school as a problem, not a benefit.Damned When I Donoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50304058439112145352011-07-02T18:57:48.885-07:002011-07-02T18:57:48.885-07:00Before the split brought APP to TM, there was basi...Before the split brought APP to TM, there was basically no PTA. There might be plenty of valid reasons for this, but APP parents did not shove anyone out.Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18365355509420961754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-2045460359314472622011-07-02T16:45:02.578-07:002011-07-02T16:45:02.578-07:00Ben, it's not just you. It's just not pol...Ben, it's not just you. It's just not polite or PC enough for a lot of people to come out and publicly say these things. There are a lot of people on both sides of this camp, and even among those who are "satisfied", you'll hear a lot of things like "It's much better this year", or "we're making it work", not "it's great!", and <i>never</i> "it's even better now with APP split". <br /><br />Damned When I Do makes some great points above, which I won't repeat. Bottom line is that the elementary APP cohousing situations are more like a wary truce, where it takes many people working hard on a regular basis to make sure things don't fall apart, and there are always a few people around the edges that antagonize.treading carefullynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42670840785653520502011-07-02T15:11:54.691-07:002011-07-02T15:11:54.691-07:00This discussion about cohousing at TM, and the pot...This discussion about cohousing at TM, and the potential break of the current cohousing arrangement at Lowell, really underlines to me that there are two distinct problems: cohousing KIDS and cohousing PARENTS.<br /><br />The concerns at the kid level should be about curriculum, learning in the classroom, playground culture, after-school activities---you know, things that involve them. Kids are surprisingly tolerant of arrangements that parents have issues with, and kids tend to have different priorities than parents anyway. <br /><br />From what I have seen, wherever APP goes, APP parents dominate the PTA and parent-driven activity at that school. I understand why non-APP parents feel resentful and have issues with that---but nobody is stopping them from getting involved. There's nothing magical or mysterious about showing up to a meeting or writing an email (or letter). I do know that for some families, even minimal participation is difficult due to demands on their time.<br /><br />I notice that 'Ben' basically noted that APP didn't have a seat at the table, and was immediately accused of wanting to exclude others or deny them. Unfortunately I think both views are right: when APP parents participate, other parents disengage, and the result is domination which nobody likes to acknowledge. So we get an uneasy truce at TM in which APP parents are active but there's little public acknowledgement of the program. <br /><br />Some Lowell ALO parents have expressed concern that the APP-dominated PTA is leaving, at the same time complaining that the PTA is dominated by APP. Paradoxically, the parent who authored a petition on this is and organized some ALO signers is, as I understand it, an APP parent in the walk zone who likes to tell a story about how difficult it was to find any ALO-family emails to send the petition to. There's a lesson in there somewhere...<br /><br />I say this as an APP parent (last year at Lowell), and I know full well that if I go to a meeting about APP at Lincoln and take the mike, there is someone somewhere who thinks that every word out of my mouth is denying someone else their voice and their right to be heard. It's a ridiculous paradox born of pettiness, paranoia and myopia on both sides, and I don't have any solution to it. <br /><br />The one group that comes out ahead in all this is, of course, the district planners who prefer playing divide-and-conquer.Damned When I Donoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-69869331594004796032011-07-02T12:19:41.750-07:002011-07-02T12:19:41.750-07:00Have you spent countless hours over several years ...<i>Have you spent countless hours over several years in our building and in many different classrooms? </i><br /><br />Ah. Yes I have, thank you very much none111. Why make assumptions? I'm not saying anything is <i>evil</i>. Just saying how it is. There's 2E and there's 2E. Yes, the easy stuff they SPS will do, so long as there is really nothing to do, or no appriciable difference, so long as it costs nothing. None111, you should try getting off your high horse from time to time. Sure, I believe there are always some people well served. And if they say they are, I believe them. But let's not extrapolate from there.<br /><br />-sped parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76845633255580790112011-07-02T09:41:05.960-07:002011-07-02T09:41:05.960-07:00Pointing out one more thing: TM Elementary School&...Pointing out one more thing: TM Elementary School's namesake was a great man who dismantled "separate but equal" in the schools. Not a bad thought on the July 4 weekend.Jessicanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10907761186384038272011-07-01T21:30:24.590-07:002011-07-01T21:30:24.590-07:00Or maybe it's just me.Or maybe it's just me.Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18365355509420961754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42077174125485730422011-07-01T20:48:22.851-07:002011-07-01T20:48:22.851-07:00Continued - Part 2.
This year, my 2nd grader had ...Continued - Part 2.<br /><br />This year, my 2nd grader had several field trips with the 2nd grade ALO classroom, and both of children had joint APP/ALO classroom field trips last year. Fifth grade promotion this year seemed to me to be a truly inclusive event that reflected a functional not fractured community. This coming year, I understand, there will be real inclusion of PEACE academy children into “regular” classrooms, and the teaching staff and families are welcoming that. <br /><br />Again, there is still more that can happen. I hope that opportunities like the Global Reading Challenge can be repeated (a team that competed nationally and was comprised equally of APP and ALO students.) I also would like to see Julie B. continue to communicate the successes of all the students from all of the programs. There were some incredible gains by the ELL students this year and although they are not my children, I am pleased to hear that ALO children at TM are thriving because of the focus on reading and literacy.<br /><br />There can and should be more ways for parents to interact across programs. I am sorry to hear from “ALO friend” that some ALO parents have had been rebuffed or their efforts to volunteer rejected. We can all do better. But I also know how much effort has also gone into reaching out to ALO parents—to join the PTA Board, to attend PTA meetings, etc. It remains a challenge.<br /><br />Yes, I do agree that there is a concerted effort to speak to parents and families across all programs as a single group but like Ruthie, I value that. I don’t want my children to feel separate (or as Jessica says, walled off) from their schoolmates. I very much appreciate that APP is self-contained but I am happy to see that doesn't mean isolated. One of my greatest fears about the APP split was that my children would feel part of a world within a world at TM. Instead, their school exist as one world with many different but interesting kids. The reality – at least for us – has been decidedly more positive than negative. I say all of this not to suggest that the split was the best choice, or even that the TM model can or should necessarily be replicated. For us, TM is a community is evolving in a good direction and should be allowed to exist without further tampering from the District.<br /><br />I am hopeful that the District's planning process for APP's future will allow time to consider what is best for all of APP—with lots of parent engagement. (Ok, please stop laughing, Charlie!) I do plan to keep a vigilant eye on what they do and say in the next few weeks and months.Toscahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17050190764379431632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-64160293055865238062011-07-01T20:41:08.910-07:002011-07-01T20:41:08.910-07:00I am a TM parent of two, and we spent one year at ...I am a TM parent of two, and we spent one year at Lowell before the split. I’d would echo Ruthie’s and Jessica's experience regarding TM and add that for us the last two years have gone quite well. Has everything been perfect? No. Was it perfect at Lowell before the split? No.<br /><br />My children feel invested in TM as their school and, while it’s not perfect, they like it. My younger son chooses to wear his purple shirt on Fridays and my older son was on the Student Council. Those little things are important to them. Personally, I am pleased to see how far the TM community has come in two years. Certainly, I can think of examples where their academic experience or social environment could be improved, but overall we are happy and they are learning.<br /><br />@Ben - I appreciate hearing about your specific concerns. For me, the things you pointed out have never registered as concerns. Yes, the TM pledge is a blend the pre-APP TM motto with something new. I like phrases such as “I am unlimited” and the “The dream is alive at Thurgood Marshall” and I am glad my children are reminded about respecting others every time they recite it.<br /><br />As for the playground, it sure seems like things were a lot different this year. One of my children had one isolated problem on the playground last year and I haven’t heard anything from either of them since. I know other parents had very real concerns, but for us it has not been a problem. Again, for my kids, their conflicts usually happen with APP-classmates. <br /><br />I do have questions about the academic side of APP, and where we are going with that. How is the continued alignment affecting the classroom experience? How can things be better tailored within the Readers and Writers’ workshops? How can we integrate social studies with reading, for example? Next year, we are told, we'll see more emphasis on non-fiction; I applaud this since my children seem to read nothing but fantasy fiction, despite my best efforts. I'm sure many APP parents share these or similar concerns. But for me the co-housing situation has not turned out to be the problem I anticipated. To my eyes, TM is NOT a repeat of the Madrona situation. <br /><br />Continued below.Toscahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17050190764379431632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23169715517327359612011-07-01T20:09:34.055-07:002011-07-01T20:09:34.055-07:00Responding to Ben:
I'm a TM APP parent, and ...Responding to Ben: <br /><br />I'm a TM APP parent, and attended the end-of-year talent show -- open to all children. The diverse talents at that event were a fantastic expression of the diversity in the school. I'm not joking when I say that all parents clapped for all children, whether the performance was Beethoven on the piano or hip-hop dancing or a Taylor Swift duet. <br /><br />I don't think the school should cater to APP, even if it's the majority of students. Julie B's emphasis on learning and reading is suitable for every age and classroom, and I appreciate her summertime push to get all children to read for a few hours a day and to open the library regularly this summer. <br /><br />Walling off APP on an island for those who test above average is not a good way to teach children about the world around them.Jessicanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13669866413465125832011-07-01T20:07:42.378-07:002011-07-01T20:07:42.378-07:00Melissa: I thought "been there" was tal...Melissa: I thought "been there" was talking about what happens with an APP type kid in a private school setting. Many don't have enough kids for a whole class working even one grade level ahead, much less 2 or 3. So if MY child needs to start Algebra I in 6th grade, because he is bored with anything else -- and I ask the school if he can go up and take the class with the older kids, or if he can be pulled out for private tutoring (at my expense), or if he can read more challenging books, other parents may resent what they see as "special stuff" that my child gets, and theirs does not. Private school parents are not immune from the same hostilities that we see in the public schools. <br /><br />As for public schools, I think that the "special accommodations" that other parents see are the exclusion of their kids when APP and Spectrum kids go off to their own classes/schools. There is not extra money spent -- but I guess it still feels like they are getting "something" that other kids are denied. I am not siding with them -- but that is the sense I have always gotten -- that they resent that what is good enough for THEIR child is perceived (by me, the school, whatever) as NOT good enough for mine. <br /><br />Long Live APP and Spectrum (self-contained)!Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38815400668129829162011-07-01T19:57:51.491-07:002011-07-01T19:57:51.491-07:00Jan, no need to apologize whatsoever. You confirme...Jan, no need to apologize whatsoever. You confirmed that my previous understanding of the school's environment was not wrong, and for that I deeply thank you. I don't know if it is the new principal, or outspoken teachers, or anti-Spectrum parents, or all of the above, but things have changed there since this announcement. We no longer feel welcome at the school (which is bitterly ironic, given the statement that this was done to promote inclusivity).<br /><br />- looking aroundAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-45587659008681524582011-07-01T19:54:08.675-07:002011-07-01T19:54:08.675-07:00Been there,you said:
"And there also exists ...Been there,you said:<br /><br />"And there also exists resentment from some parents when students get special accommodations."<br /><br />What special accommodations does APP get beyond a cohort? Because I'm pretty sure the district expends very little on their program. They certainly don't on Spectrum.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80548504998275935192011-07-01T17:55:00.662-07:002011-07-01T17:55:00.662-07:00I'm with Ruthie-I know at least a couple of pa...I'm with Ruthie-I know at least a couple of parents who yank their kids out of school for all sorts of non-learning things-and I think reminding them that school is for learning isn't such a bad idea. <br />Reminding kids to read is along those same lines.<br /><br />Much was what Ben says comes across as...yes, elitist, because it SOUNDS like he's saying, TM is OUR school now, stop catering to those bothersome ALO kids and their ways. Do it OUR way because we're BETTER! <br /><br />No, of course that isn't what he's ACTUALLY saying, I'll bet my life that's how some of the ALO parents hear it. <br /><br />We are not in APP but my daughter is friends with many of the ALO kids at TM and by default, I know their parents. And I can tell you that for every one of Ben's complaints, there's a flip side of complaint by some of the ALO parents.<br /><br />The most heartbreaking story I've heard is from a parent who's been at TM since her kids were in preschool. We're talking several years. Last year she tried any number of times to strike up conversations with APP parents and was ignored. Finally she stopped trying.<br /><br />This year she tried to get involved in an APP parent-run volunteer project and was told, politely, "We don't need you."<br /><br />Oddly enough, the KIDS seem to be making friends across the school, especially some of the younger ones, and my kid's friends all have friends in APP. I'd say that there are parents on BOTH sides that could be more welcoming.<br /><br />But as long as people like Ben continue to wish they were somewhere, anywhere else, that's not going to happen.ALO friendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24291463055883260302011-07-01T16:55:19.859-07:002011-07-01T16:55:19.859-07:00Bobbi said: "The best part of all this is th...Bobbi said: "The best part of all this is the folks who swore they would never have their kid tested if they got "the letter" from the district, and if they did, they would still never leave. Funny thing, though, some of those families who saw improvement on the Spring MAP scores are now inquiring about APP & Spectrum programs."<br /><br />What I want to know is -- who ARE these people! Really. You would get a letter advising that maybe your child was APP eligible, and you would not even pursue it? You would not even evaluate whether maybe there was a program that would nail your child's strengths and weaknesses, and give them a much happier, better education? Really? Good thing I am not sitting around having coffee with them! It wouldn't end well.<br /><br />Look -- I can see, on a case by case basis, saying -- I know my kid. I know their attachment to -- whatever (this neighborhood, their sibs school, their friends, etc. etc.) or I know how anxious/motionsick, whatever, the transporation would be -- and thus, for this child, it makes no sense to go further.<br /><br />But to not even take the test? Or to take the test and then never even evaluate the fit of APP? What am I not getting here? This seems so "reverse snobbish" -- but to the possible detriment of their own child. I don't get it, and I think I am glad I don't.Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7458730974416690342011-07-01T16:00:23.800-07:002011-07-01T16:00:23.800-07:00Melissa: Based on Ruthie's comments, I wonder...Melissa: Based on Ruthie's comments, I wonder whether it might be the case that APP can successfully cohouse with programs if the APP cohort is seen -- by the community -- as adding more than it detracts, in terms of parent support, AL opportunities, support for music programs, etc. <br /><br />This is how I have always viewed GHS. Things are not perfect there, but at least a portion of the neighborhood seems to like having APP there, because of what it provides in terms of access to more AP classes, more academic rigor, better music programs, etc. etc. etc. That works better at the high school level, because the classes are available to everyone (who can keep up) -- but I think if building leadership is behind ALL programs in the school, AND the neighborhood perceives benefit, maybe it can at least work a little better than the horrible Madrona years.Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.com