tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post8255552924206091485..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: High School Math Text Adoption Court ChallengeMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54867144000237444472009-12-09T23:52:06.474-08:002009-12-09T23:52:06.474-08:00Dear Brown206,
In 2005-2006 the SPS started requi...Dear Brown206,<br /><br />In 2005-2006 the SPS started requiring students to have 10th grade standing to take the WASL. Previously the district tested those who were in their second year of high school. Thus scores went from 40% passing to 55% in one year district-wide.<br /><br />I certainly would not argue that this district has ever made an attempt to have an internationally competitive math curriculum. I certainly will argue that when the UW pours large NSF resources in the PD^3 math project into Cleveland and produces (keep in mind that these kids needed sophomore standing to test):<br /><br />Percent of Black Cleveland students at level 1 or no score<br />Year<br />2004-05 67.00%<br />2005-06 59.50%<br /><b>2006-07 74.60%<br />2007-08 83.40%<br />2008-09 74.70%</b><br /><br />This is a complete disaster and totally unacceptable. Keep in mind the MGJ was all for having IMP be the High School math adoption spring 2008.<br /><br />We also need to consider the other factors ... Cleveland spent time at Boren (fall 2005-spring 2007) I believe. This could have effected who went to Cleveland. New building opened for 2007-2008.<br /><br />A math teacher at RBHS told me in 2007 that the biggest two difficulties effecting math performance at RBHS were:<br />1.) Lack of Parents<br />2.) Connected Math at middle school.<br />==================<br /><br />The high school math adoption decision as DeBell, Martin-Morris, & Bass framed it .... <br />was a referendum on SPS math direction. {EDM, CMP2, Discovering}<br /><br />Maier, Carr, Sundquist, and Chow voted to continue more nonsense.<br /><br /><i>Project Follow Through</i><br />Hattie's "Visible Learning"<br />& NMAP's "Foundations for Success"<br />provide successful proven data based direction and the SPS chooses something totally different. The results are pathetic.<br />Two years of EDM and every disadvantaged group's math achievement gaps increased.<br /><br />When does the board ever plan on fixing this disaster? {So far the SPS board just compounds problems}<br /><br />It will probably require a Federal Lawsuit victory to even begin to make progress.dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76466505264970171372009-12-09T23:19:10.055-08:002009-12-09T23:19:10.055-08:00@Patrick, I agree that we should teach real world ...@Patrick, I agree that we should teach real world problems, but you start with the basics when learning a new concept. <br /><br />For example, as a computer scientist, if I'm going to teach you how to do sorting, I'm going to start with sorting integers. I'm not going to start with sorting strings in Arabic with localization rules that run counter to most students experience in the US. Sure, it's something you have to do in the real world, but they'll get lost dealing with the Unicode and then complain that sorting is too hard.<br /><br />Just MHO.KSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18431215148045075941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-2894297610166983472009-12-09T21:16:02.559-08:002009-12-09T21:16:02.559-08:00Dan, here are the pass rates I find at the followi...Dan, here are the pass rates I find at the following URL:<br /><br />http://www.seattleschools.org/area/siso/test/wasl/2006/4yr/012.pdf<br /><br />2003 Math<br />Cleveland: 9%<br />2004 Math<br />Cleveland 5%<br />(both of these years math is taught mainly "traditionally")<br />2005 Math<br />Cleveland 23% <br />(this is the year that Cleveland had a pretty big spike in all areas of the WASL)<br />2006 Math<br />Cleveland 21%<br /><br />Yes, there was a downturn in math for the next two years, then this past year, the scores were back up to 21%. So I don't think this data makes a great case for reform math, but I also don't think it makes a great case for traditional math. I just think it's a complex set of data that needs more analysis than what I've seen in this thread so far.brown206https://www.blogger.com/profile/10812082320364360059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56052474760010590972009-12-09T16:58:41.040-08:002009-12-09T16:58:41.040-08:00Brown206,
About Cleveland math WASL scores
Al...Brown206,<br /><br />About Cleveland math WASL scores <br /><br />All students pass rate <br />10th Grade Math <br />Year School District State<br />2004-05 23.20% 40.80% 47.50%<br />2005-06 21.10% 55.70% 51.00%<br /><b>2006-07 17.90%</b> 50.20% 50.40%<br /><b>2007-08 12.20%</b> 50.40% 49.60%<br /><b>2008-09 21.20%</b> 48.90% 45.40%<br /> <br />Black students pass rate <br />10th Grade Math <br />Year School District State<br />2004-05 16.50% 12.90% 20.40%<br />2005-06 8.50% 21.70% 23.20%<br /><b>2006-07 11.10%</b> 19.60% 22.50%<br /><b>2007-08 6.30%</b> 16.00% 22.20%<br /><b>2008-09 12.70%</b> 16.30% 20.90%<br /> <br />Percent of all Cleveland students at level 1 or no score <br />Year <br />2004-05 59.00% <br />2005-06 46.70% <br /><b>2006-07 67.00%</b> <br /><b>2007-08 65.40%</b> <br /><b>2008-09 59%</b> <br /><br />Percent of Black Cleveland students at level 1 or no score <br />Year <br />2004-05 67.00% <br />2005-06 59.50% <br /><b>2006-07 74.60%</b> <br /><b>2007-08 83.40%</b> <br /><b>2008-09 74.70%</b><br /><b><br />The IMP program began in 2006-2007 and ran through 2008-2009. It entailed a lot of expensive alterations that were not available without NSF funding.<br /><br />Look at the increase in Level 1 + No scores .... This was a disaster.<br /></b><br />Slightly more than 50% of Cleveland students were classified as Black.<br />This district has goals but has no plans based on anything proven to achieve those goals.dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33936854755365004022009-12-09T16:19:27.485-08:002009-12-09T16:19:27.485-08:00I agree the information is not presented in as eas...I agree the information is not presented in as easy to use format as it could be. I think that's deliberate. Real life problems rarely give you exactly what you need to know in exactly the order you need to know it. Sometimes the data are surprising, like maybe the sports car driver has already gotten five tickets this year and is overcompensating. Putting in acceleration would also be an interesting problem, but it would make it much harder and probably for a later year's class. I think this is the sort of problem high school math students should be able to solve. <br /><br />The books do need to teach the arithmetic and algebra behind the problems, though. I am concerned about reports that the chosen books don't present standard algorithms, don't have reference material students can refer to while they're doing homework, and depend too heavily on calculators.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16260807460417787614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79897581419268698772009-12-09T11:38:14.539-08:002009-12-09T11:38:14.539-08:00I talked at length recently to a 1st grade teacher...I talked at length recently to a 1st grade teacher about EDM and he wrinkled his nose. He said that he led a peer task force after a year of teaching EDM to basically rewrite the lesson plans. They put things into sequences that were a better fit for the kids. De-emphasized some work. Added lessons where there were gaps. So yes, EDM is the curriculum, but thankfully a good teacher is going over, under and around to get 1st grade basics into kids. Oh, and the same teacher is working OT to get his ESL kids into the groove. It starts at 1st grade...EDM does a huge disservice to those who come from families that don't have strong English skills at home.<br /><br />So, EDM is fine for this teacher's kids, but this approach is not exactly replicable. The "unofficial" peer group has to stay that way, lest the District "fix" the fix. And most teachers won't have interest or access to the revised lesson plans.Central Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411595538958030193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34254588136774678512009-12-08T20:09:39.206-08:002009-12-08T20:09:39.206-08:00Patrick said: "SG, isn't part of solving ...Patrick said: "SG, isn't part of solving real-life problems sorting out the relevant information from the irrelevant? That seems like a worth-while exercise, assuming they've taught the basic concepts already."<br /><br />This is exactly right, and the problem is that they HAVEN'T (generally) already taught the basic concepts!<br /><br />The Discovery series would be pretty decent if used as a supplement to a traditional book. There are interesting concepts and investigations. But only once you have a solid understanding of the underlying material! So for the kids who are already very skilled in math, it's not going to be that bad. They either already know the basics, or they can digest them very quickly. But more typical kids, or kids who have a tough time with math are in deep trouble. A lot of the ELL kids are just going to be left in the ditch to fend for themselves. :-( That seems to be what this lawsuit is trying to point out.<br /><br />The worst part of it is that the high school material (Discovering) is better than elementary (EDM), which might even be considered better than the trash they use in middle school (CMP). The one that needs to be fixed most desperately is EDM, because without a solid foundation in elementary, the kids are growing up disadvantaged (and discouraged) for the balance of their math education. The effects of EDM over the past couple years are starting to show up now, and it ain't pretty. Talk to enough teachers and you'll hear some sad tales.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15254923107496419242009-12-08T16:48:33.313-08:002009-12-08T16:48:33.313-08:00ust wondering about the use of the Cleveland data ...ust wondering about the use of the Cleveland data here, since Cleveland's math WASL scores were far lower in most of the years that traditional math was being taught there. What do the low math scores in 2007 and 2008 really prove? What does the near-doubling of the scores in the 3rd year of reform math instruction demonstrate, if anything? What data would you present to demonstrate the efficacy of traditional math instruction in eliminating the gap in scores between students with low family income and students of color and richer, white students? I think it's rare to get data that's so clear cut that people who come to it with different beliefs and theories will agree about what it means, and I think Cleveland's data is an example of complex and, sometimes, contradictory information.brown206https://www.blogger.com/profile/10812082320364360059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-16214519128087045312009-12-08T16:45:13.009-08:002009-12-08T16:45:13.009-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.brown206https://www.blogger.com/profile/10812082320364360059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-890718707524981592009-12-08T16:43:46.930-08:002009-12-08T16:43:46.930-08:00Patrick-
Here is the verbiage being referred to.....Patrick-<br /><br />Here is the verbiage being referred to...<br /><br /><i>A green minivan starts at the Mackinac Bridge and heads south for Flint on Highway 75. At the same time, a red sports car leaves Saginaw and a blue pickup truck<br />leaves Flint. The car and the pickup are heading for the<br />bridge. The minivan travels 72 mi/h. The pickup travels<br />66 mi/h. The sports car travels 48 mi/h.<br />When and where will they pass each other on the highway? In this investigation you will learn how to use recursive sequences to answer questions like these.<br /><br />Step 1 Find each vehicle’s average speed in miles per minute (mi/min).<br />Step 2 Write recursive routines to find each vehicle’s distance from Flint at each minute.<br />What are the real-world meanings of the starting value and the rule in each routine? Use calculator lists.<br /><br />(a map is included, Flint to Saginaw is 35 miles, to the Bridge is 220) </i><br /><br />Reads awkwardly, in a Who's on First sort of way, gives me a headache. Also confusing in your real world sense, the fastest car, the sports car, is going the slowest, in fact dangerously slow, averaging 48 mph. I bet the blue pickup truck rear ends the sports car about two hours out of Flint.<br /><br />Seems to instill a complacency with respect to averages. Also leaves out acceleration, if they didn't want to introduce the topic they should have the vehicles leaving the towns already at their "average" speed.rugleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08303636114796314295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35623301272058547412009-12-08T15:35:28.847-08:002009-12-08T15:35:28.847-08:00@MoneyPenny: This is great advice for the board an...@MoneyPenny: This is great advice for the board and Sup. Data-driven decisions really do exist. In the face of data that screams, "Do X," they continually insist on doing everything but X. <br /><br />Why do you think that happens?WenDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07754473793580185814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34067452636537645732009-12-08T15:32:06.310-08:002009-12-08T15:32:06.310-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.WenDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07754473793580185814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-26753713300311472932009-12-08T15:31:19.671-08:002009-12-08T15:31:19.671-08:00As someone with learning differences and as a mom ...As someone with learning differences and as a mom of children who are twice gifted ( highly intelligent- but unevenly), I can tell you that this style of instruction is very difficult to transfer to real life applications- or further studies- O chem for instance.<br /><br />I need to be able to identify what type of math I need to solve a problem, then I can apply it- but this mish mosh of strategies, ( which leave some out BTW), is ineffective and can be very inaccurate.<br /><br />I expect that this lack of clarity in curriculum influences students who may not have a solid foundation in lower math skills to begin with.<br /><br />It is too late for my kid, she is having to study with a tutor before she can take math in college despite graduating with honors from Garfield, but I have hope that this problem won't be ongoing for yet another generation of Seattle kidsJet City momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14804841958585043967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18976144740947811882009-12-08T13:59:27.759-08:002009-12-08T13:59:27.759-08:00In an amazing bit of synchonicity, I recently was ...In an amazing bit of synchonicity, I recently was on a jury panel in Judge Specter's courtroom. She was all kinds of awesome.jdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10911494017515642668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59874691677576742362009-12-08T10:05:46.064-08:002009-12-08T10:05:46.064-08:00KSG, isn't part of solving real-life problems ...KSG, isn't part of solving real-life problems sorting out the relevant information from the irrelevant? That seems like a worth-while exercise, assuming they've taught the basic concepts already.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16260807460417787614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-78539654142071303542009-12-07T22:49:43.784-08:002009-12-07T22:49:43.784-08:00State law allows people to appeal school board dec...State law allows people to appeal school board decisions to Superior Court within 30 days of the decision. After 30 days the right to appeal expires.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39865722375637990722009-12-07T22:38:17.759-08:002009-12-07T22:38:17.759-08:00I've taken some time to look at this math book...I've taken some time to look at this math book and it does look pretty bad. I agree with the general idea of focusing on actual thinking skills, rather than memorization, but this text seems unnecessarily confusing. <br /><br />For example, I saw a problem with three vehicles traveling on a highway and the question is to figure out when they all crossed. The thing that I found odd was that they named the highway, HW 75. Why throw another number in the mix when you already have three vehicles to deal with. And then they had a minivan and sportscar as two of the three vehicles. The minivan was moving the fastest and the sportscar moving the slowest. While teaching basic math concepts, why defy common/expected behaviors?KSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18431215148045075941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-28123295741636574962009-12-07T22:32:50.582-08:002009-12-07T22:32:50.582-08:00Anyone know why they took on only the high school ...<i>Anyone know why they took on only the high school math, and did not include Everyday Math?</i><br /><br />I don't know, but I can guess;<br /><br />IIRC, The high school math was just voted on this year (and maybe hasn't been completely invested in), while EDM has been in use for three years.<br /><br />Also, I'm guessing that it would need to be a separate brief, with whatever that entails.<br /><br />/love the nick, by the wayArchStantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10746480698492983438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-82148479334810203172009-12-07T22:10:31.036-08:002009-12-07T22:10:31.036-08:00Anyone know why they took on only the high school ...Anyone know why they took on only the high school math, and did not include Everyday Math?Truly Scrumptioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11508731119743094428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-28386491299246608292009-12-07T19:48:32.065-08:002009-12-07T19:48:32.065-08:00"The brief contends that the school district ..."The brief contends that the school district acted arbitrarily and capriciously..." <br /><br />Isn't that their normal mode of operation? I feel the same way about the New Student Assignment Plan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86807785754641302942009-12-07T19:45:34.461-08:002009-12-07T19:45:34.461-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.wsnorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03795943009142572757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53678481516542294612009-12-07T19:37:31.155-08:002009-12-07T19:37:31.155-08:00MoneyPenny,
Thanks for your in depth analysis and...MoneyPenny,<br /><br />Thanks for your in depth analysis and careful exploration into the details of this debate. It's nice to see someone with such a balanced understanding of the issues and how they affect our children. Here I was worrying that my son would have to take years of college remedial math, or that I would have to pay for additional out-of-school classes to make up for the severe lacking in our schools, in order to compete in this society and you come along, like a breath of fresh air, and really explain how great the new system is and how we should all genuflect before the board.<br /><br />Please continue to post; this blog is nothing without you.<br /><br />stuStuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11769983958729170219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11152743204190620692009-12-07T19:32:08.886-08:002009-12-07T19:32:08.886-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Stuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11769983958729170219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88250417269962484212009-12-07T18:56:05.556-08:002009-12-07T18:56:05.556-08:00Or you can stop wasting everyone's time and mo...Or you can stop wasting everyone's time and money and get over it.MoneyPennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11128638121498873124noreply@blogger.com