tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post8604970174852903167..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Washington State Scores ReleasedMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger68125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39397633729305764072011-09-05T17:17:51.718-07:002011-09-05T17:17:51.718-07:00Regarding the percentage cut-off for passing:
Se...Regarding the percentage cut-off for passing: <br /><br />Seems as though the suggestion is that 37.5% is a low passing score, and the passing score for the 8th grade MSP has been lowered, so maybe the increase in passing rates is less meaningful. I teach AP Calculus, and the percentage necessary for earning a qualifying score of 3 or above, on a scale of 1 to 5, is in the low 30% range. Some readers my feel that the level of difficulty of calculus is such that a passing score of such low percentage is warranted; however, it's all relative. The algebra 1 EOC can be every bit as challenging to a student in first year algebra as the AP Calculus exam can be to a student in AP Calculus. In both cases you are testing students on a year's worth of curriculum. When you are testing a year long course over a few hours, the 70, 80, 90 standard for grading students is not valid. <br /><br />I also should laud the success of the middle schools. Unless I did not see all the scores, it appears that all the middle schools that administered the EOC Algebra or Geometry had passing rates over 90%. And one middle school in particular, Aki Kurose had 100% of it's 31 students pass the year one EOC in algebra, and it appears that a bit over 70% (22/31) of the students are identified as low income.Royce Christensennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-49573903505181308102011-09-05T15:14:52.378-07:002011-09-05T15:14:52.378-07:00SST,
Sounds like you are in the know. How do you...SST,<br /><br />Sounds like you are in the know. How do you switch to those schools now after open enrollment? Should we talk to the principal to the preferred school to see if there are spaces and we can switch or is it better to go through downtown?<br /><br />-Want to get out to a better schoolAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-73999880642209089702011-09-04T09:04:27.410-07:002011-09-04T09:04:27.410-07:00Anonymous, sure the most popular schools are full,...Anonymous, sure the most popular schools are full, but there are plenty of very good schools that do have space, even now, after open enrollment is finished. I live in the NE, and just in my neighborhood alone I can tell you that there is still space at Jane Addams (elementary and MS), John Rogers, Olympic Hills, Northgate, AS1 (elementary and MS), BF Day, Northbeach, Ingraham, and Hale, just to name a few. Many choices out there, so don't feel "stuck" at Concord, Aki, RBHS. And this is what is available now, at the end of summer, and after open enrollment. If you apply during open enrollment you have many more choices and a far better chance of getting into popular schools.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-78115746998430266662011-09-04T08:59:41.562-07:002011-09-04T08:59:41.562-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70992703409711226272011-09-02T10:08:09.181-07:002011-09-02T10:08:09.181-07:00Another parent, you write that "By glossing o...Another parent, you write that "By glossing over the groups, ignoring trends, throwing our hands up and saying "oh, so sad about individual struggles", we fail to see who exactly it is that are served the least and where effort needs to be applied"<br /><br />Umm, who is ignoring trends or throwing their hands up in the air?<br /><br />It IS sad about individual struggles. And individuals who are excelling and could use more advanced materials.<br /><br />When the media merely shows these generalized numbers, the grouped "trends" and ignores the nuance and the individual struggles and successes, we DO "fail to see exactly who exactly it is that are served the least..."<br /><br />Given the bare basics of "Blacks 'fail' at a rate higher than Whites," what are we to make of that, as an uninformed public? What is the "take-away" from that comparison based on categories? Are we to assume that Blacks, generally, are "not served" by schools? How? Or are we to assume that Whites are better served? How? In which schools does this happen, as we know that all schools have all sorts of kids in them?<br /><br />The categories generalize and distract from the individuals. As we have seen, sweeping statements come out of these generalities: "This school is failing." Failing HOW? Is it ALL the teachers failing? All the students? Of course not.<br /><br />Then, you write that the "glossing over the groups" keeps us from seeing exactly who is struggling. How does the "group" show us exactly who is struggling? It doesn't, and if we look at child who we THINK is free-reduced lunch, and make assumptions about that child based on that, we are guilty of addressing only what we THINK (or are told) about "that group" and ignoring the "exact" needs of the individual. The groups easily lead to assumptions about individuals that are inaccurate and misleading. They can lead to racist and classist actions.<br /><br />UNLESS there is nuance, but the general public never gets that, they get "failing school" because there are "Blacks" in it.<br /><br />What is YOUR take-away from the OSPI scores, another parent? What useful information do you gain? Yes, we can become more aware of trends: If a child identifies or is identified as Black they, on average, do less well on state tests. But what do you take away from that? What is helpful in that?<br /><br />And you know, "duh" is really not that helpful. Unless you somehow have the whole thing worked out. If you do, let us know.seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11042345017410510302011-09-02T07:45:49.853-07:002011-09-02T07:45:49.853-07:00Wow SC, students aren't just one thing? Big ...Wow SC, students aren't just one thing? Big duh!!!!<br /><br />By glossing over the groups, ignoring trends, throwing our hands up and saying "oh, so sad about individual struggles", we fail to see who exactly it is that are served the least and where effort needs to be applied.<br /><br />-another parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-69679116614143098372011-09-01T17:29:30.595-07:002011-09-01T17:29:30.595-07:00Does anyone know when State scores get posted to t...Does anyone know when State scores get posted to the Source?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9996412262571881532011-09-01T13:28:06.547-07:002011-09-01T13:28:06.547-07:00SST,
Wow, great schools with excess space. So no ...SST,<br />Wow, great schools with excess space. So no capacity problem. Well that would be news for folks on the wait list for those "choice" schools? <br /><br />-Still on the wait listAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23664069816479365762011-09-01T09:42:15.690-07:002011-09-01T09:42:15.690-07:00"And why shouldn't we go (to private scho..."And why shouldn't we go (to private school) if the chocie for our kids is Aki, Concord, etc.?"<br /><br />This is a bit of a stretch isn't it? If it's private school you want that's fine, no argument here. But if you truly want public schools there are PLENTY of options. There are neighborhood schools all over the city that have excess space that will happily take your child. And there are "choice" schools too. If Aki and Concord are your neighborhood schools and you don't like them choose another school - you are not bound to them. You may have to drive your child to school, but you'd have to do that for private school too.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54222029224836621422011-09-01T08:53:08.474-07:002011-09-01T08:53:08.474-07:00The reality, private schools, as a group, have dis...<i>The reality, private schools, as a group, have disproportionately low rate of minority students, much lower than SPS.</i><br /><br />this is true- both of our kids were in private schools for at least three years although we were/are a middle to lowish blue collar family. However we had made a commitment to procuring the best education we could for our children despite sacrifices elsewhere.<br /><br />We did get to know families of color in the private schools, however they were from educated middle to upper income backgrounds ( including SPS district administration)<br /><br />We saw over the years other similar families making the choice to move outside of the city for better schools rather than go private.( which is how you get greater racial diversity in the eastside suburbs) However, for many families ( as it was for us) that wasn't an option we seriously considered.Jet City momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14804841958585043967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22367113959360200382011-09-01T06:31:04.372-07:002011-09-01T06:31:04.372-07:00Thanks, anotherparent, for answering my question b...Thanks, anotherparent, for answering my question by asking if I'm dense. That's so cordial. Was it something I said?<br /><br />Maybe my point wasn't clear enough for you: Students aren't just Black, Special ed, White, or whatever, and by making them merely these things with these test scores we gloss over the individual struggles.<br /><br />Is that less dense?<br /><br />Have a GREAT morning, another parent!seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7410029516069260962011-08-31T21:25:08.247-07:002011-08-31T21:25:08.247-07:00Finally I understand how the EOC testing was done....Finally I understand how the EOC testing was done. Students took either the Algebra EoC or the Geometry EoC but not both (unless perhaps a student was taking both Algebra and Geometry).<br /><br />If a student just finished an Algebra class, they are tested with EoC #1<br /><br />If a student just finished a Geometry class, they are tested with EoC #2.<br /><br />Any student who took a math class above those two classes was tested with EoC #1 {this is referred to as "Makeup Year 1"}<br /><br />There were no make up Year 2 tests given this year.<br /><br />Thus the only students taking the EoC #2 were those that took Geometry this year..... While everyone else wound up taking the Algebra EoC.<br /><br />In the SPS there were 6,120 EoC #1 tests taken<br />and 2,860 EoC #2 tests taken.dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-44417914520031042132011-08-31T21:12:27.572-07:002011-08-31T21:12:27.572-07:00Seattle Citizen, are you dense? You seem to mire...Seattle Citizen, are you dense? You seem to mire yourself in lots of confusion on simple observations.<br /><br />The observation of OSPI's published MSP/EOC results:<br /><br />Special education students, as a group, identified by OSPI, across the grades, past the tests at the rates: x, y, z on the various tests. The scores are pretty low... because well, the students have disabilities. The definition of a disabilty means a struggle, usually caused by an organic difference.<br /><br />Black students, as a group, identified by OSPI, across the grades, seem to pass the various tests at the same rates as students with disabilities..<br /><br />Is that a difficult fact to understand? ???<br /><br />I think it pretty terrible when a racial group performs academically at the same level as those with disabilities. Do you not think it a problem???? Can you really deny a huge acheivement gap??? If not, bring on the reformers.<br /><br />YES! There are lots of overlaps in categories. But to hide behind that points to another problem: Overidentifaction of students of color for special education. And yes, I've seem many times on this blog that race wasn't really a factor... it's all about "low income" and the lack of opportunity that associated with that. Students don't score well, or don't qualify for advanced learning because of their poverty. But the performance, as well as other identifications seem to be more closely related to race.<br /><br />--another parent<br /><br />And then there's the other myth, that bolsters the claim: "the smart students of color are in private school". The reality, private schools, as a group, have disproportionately low rate of minority students, much lower than SPS.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1834262531583477232011-08-31T16:43:46.542-07:002011-08-31T16:43:46.542-07:00"SPS test scores are more complex than they s..."SPS test scores are more complex than they seem"<br /><br />The "test scores" we are throwing around here are NOT complex; as usual, we have narrowed the assessment methodology down to just bare metrics and now discuss them as if they WERE complex. This is unfortunate. This supports a whole system change from nuanced assessment of individuals to blanket statements about groups.<br /><br />The students being assessed ARE more complex, much more complex. The "data" (MSP/HSPE), when studied individually and correlated with other factors in a child's life, MIGHT yield valuable information. But the announcements, at local, state, and national levels, of these numbers shows no complexity at all, and that is the purpose, to simplify education and its product into graphable data. The cynics would say this data is then used to turn education into a mere production line, each input and output measurable...And, given the evidence, the cynics would be right.<br /><br />The complexity we aren't priveledged to see with this data is which student is both White AND Special ed; which is Black AND Asian, which was rich yesterday and poor today, which is Black immigrant and which is Black African American, which was beaten this morning and which skipped all their classes...THIS is the valuable data, but we newspaper readers don't get an ounce of that analysis, we merely get categories.<br /><br />And so goes the use of the "acheivement gap" to destroy public education by rendering it into mere graphs and charts, the students into data points and the educators into programmers.seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-48055823461928175632011-08-31T14:35:16.683-07:002011-08-31T14:35:16.683-07:00There is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing to...There is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing to go private. But eliminating the top performing kids of color from SPS testing skews the results of the scores. High performing kids of color with the most highly involved parents of color are largely not represented in SPS. My kids' public middle school was quite diverse, and most kids of color went private for high school. It's a fantastic option. But I think SPS test scores are more complex than they seem.Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12152220985400838255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5076217039104685182011-08-31T14:13:42.090-07:002011-08-31T14:13:42.090-07:00To G,
And why shouldn't we go if the chocie fo...To G,<br />And why shouldn't we go if the chocie for our kids is Aki, Concord, etc.? If the kids apply, got accepted and decided to go to a private school, then kudos to them. (It doesn't have to be kids of color either, just make the FRL) <br /><br />-looking for a way outAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-25451016659495987072011-08-31T11:42:30.489-07:002011-08-31T11:42:30.489-07:00Private schools in Seattle cherry pick the best an...Private schools in Seattle cherry pick the best and the brightest kids of color away from SPS.Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12152220985400838255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-74355542278281072202011-08-31T09:45:25.514-07:002011-08-31T09:45:25.514-07:00The low cut scores make the rise in scores seem so...The low cut scores make the rise in scores seem so meaningless, yet there will be no shortage of people patting themselves on the back. <br /><br />disgruntled parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-55081764779416545182011-08-31T09:45:03.992-07:002011-08-31T09:45:03.992-07:00@ another parent,
You wrote that, "Wow. High ...@ another parent,<br />You wrote that, "Wow. High school results for black students is pretty much on par with students in special education. Anybody who thinks low income, and not race, is a performance factor... isn't looking at the "data". We often hear "it's really just low income" not racism. Racially based performance is alive and going strong in SPS."<br /><br />I'm curious as to what uou think we might make of Black students being "on par" with Special Ed students(using the "data"). Is there correlation? Is it two separate issues that happen to have similar "data"?<br /><br />I don't thinnk many people think low income and not race is THE factor. Low income, race, special ed designation all have "cross-over," where one "category" (if we can make such a generalization) impacts others.<br /><br />What do you mean by "racially based performance"?<br /><br />And then, how is it "going strong" in SPS?<br /><br />This thread of discussion gets to the very heart of what is driving education policy at local and national levels. This discussion about race, income, special education and their corollaries, white priviledge, wealth, "advanced placement" (for want of a catch-all phrase that identifies those that need not the assistance "to level" of special ed but rather the "advancement" from level of APP, Spectrum, AP, IB etc etc.<br />The nexus of race, class, and ability is THE discussion under way, and to settle on some grand sea changes regarding these things seems to be the job put before us. <br /><br />The question is, who decides the answers? Individuals...communities...districts...Data processors?seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53712993003598261012011-08-31T09:39:58.094-07:002011-08-31T09:39:58.094-07:007th-9th grade EOC exam results for Seattle:
% mee...7th-9th grade EOC exam results for Seattle:<br /><br />% meeting standard (number taking)<br /><br />7th grade<br />EOC#1 - 97.8% (186)<br />EOC#2 - 100% (11)<br /><br />8th grade<br />EOC#1 - 88.1% (881)<br />EOC#2 - 99.6% (234)<br /><br />9th grade<br />EOC#1 - 53.2% (2158)<br />EOC#2 - 84.4% (1058)<br /><br />The numbers include all EOC exams and exclude No Scores.numbersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-44741673764443382652011-08-31T09:36:22.691-07:002011-08-31T09:36:22.691-07:00Dan,
As I quoted from the WA state Board of Ed min...Dan,<br />As I quoted from the WA state Board of Ed minutes before, the board approved Dorn's/OSPI's recommendations and lowered the passing scores previously adopted for both the Algebra & Geometry tests, as well as Science (grades 5 & 8).<br /><br />The EOC math tests are new this spring, but the end result for %students passing their graduation requirement for math went up from 45% passing (2009-10 on the HSPE) to 60% (algebra EOC) and almost 70% (geometry). Its like comparing apples to oranges, and rotten oranges at that!<br /><br />Similarily, the science %students passing shot way up with the artificial boost, from 5th grade 41% (2009-10)to 64% passing this year, and in 8th grade from 60% (2009-10) to almost 70% this year.<br /><br />The actual passing score bar has been lowered so low that a passing rate in 8th grade science is now 57.5%. No wonder 70% of the kids in Seattle passed that test this spring! Aren't we making wonderful progress!SPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12726295210572942506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21392015931308354712011-08-31T08:51:26.374-07:002011-08-31T08:51:26.374-07:00Wow. High school results for black students is pre...<i>Wow. High school results for black students is pretty much on par with students in special education. Anybody who thinks low income, and not race, is a performance factor... isn't looking at the "data". We often hear "it's really just low income" not racism. Racially based performance is alive and going strong in SPS.</i><br /><br />A few years ago- Garfield had testing for math placement not automatic assignment & my daughter ( who has a math related disability & graduated in '08) was placed in a class to help her get caught up ( she was almost two years behind).<br />She was the only caucasian in her class but that class ( combined with one summer school class) enabled her to be at grade level by junior year so that she could take Chemistry ( along with other kids from the math class she also took physics senior year)<br />However- this class was something Garfield was doing, not the district and the program was cut the next year.<br /><br />Don't know if Garfield has been able to introduce anything similar since.Jet City momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14804841958585043967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-60338889984431419752011-08-31T08:46:25.565-07:002011-08-31T08:46:25.565-07:00Dear Numbers,
Thanks for the EoC link above ... s...Dear Numbers,<br /><br />Thanks for the EoC link above ... slide 22 is quite revealing.<br /><br />math #1 40 points on Test and <br />Dorn's recommendations for cut scores were<br />Advanced / Proficient = 23 points<br />Proficient / Basic = 15 points<br />Basic / Below Basic = 11 points<br /><br />23/40 = 57.5% (Advanced) cutoff<br />15/40 = 37.5% (Proficient) cutoff<br />11/ 40 = 27.5% (Basic) cutoff<br /><br />Have I got this right?<br />These were Dorn's recommendations .... Am I missing something?dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53387561761043546102011-08-31T08:41:36.096-07:002011-08-31T08:41:36.096-07:00Dan - SPS High School Math ...
In order to find o...Dan - SPS High School Math ...<br /><br />In order to find out what is working and what isn't working, we'd need completely anonymous surveys to the math teachers. <br /><br />Fear of Fuzzy Head Hunters from downtown looking to insure fidelity to garbage curriculum is founded upon the reality of fuzzy downtown head hunters forcing their philosophical garbage down the throats of our kids in math classrooms. <br /><br />For Period 1<br /><br />Question #1.<br />Which class did you teach?<br />A. Algebra 1, B. Geometry, C. Algebra 2, D. none of the above.<br /><br />Question #1.<br />In a "typical" week, for how many days was the "Discovering..." text used for more than 1/2 the time for more than 1/2 the days. <br />A. 0, B. 1, C. 2, D. 3, E. 4, F. 5<br /><br />and on for all 6 periods. <br /><br />Kids who've been subjected to fuzzy high level confusion for too many years of math "education" aren't doing well on the state test, or any test. <br /><br />Ideally, without an atmosphere of fear from retribution from the fuzzies, you'd be able to ask those questions openly, and then map the answers to data about the kids in each class. <br /><br />However, since the point of data driven decision making is to make teachers look bad, and not help us, it is next to impossible to easily get our kids data - <br /><br />PSAT & WASL & HSPE & EOC & Course Grades & MAP & ... ordered by exam or by time or by ... <br /><br />OH well, due to data people in charge like the de barros & benratek crowd, this kind of data is scattered among various electronic systems, and is only available for those with time to manually cut and paste from 1 electronic system to the next. <br /><br />(see high school data coaches!)<br /><br />DreamOnDanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5550770487441606582011-08-31T08:07:32.671-07:002011-08-31T08:07:32.671-07:00Wow 22.4% pass for our students with disabilities....Wow 22.4% pass for our students with disabilities. That is totally disgraceful, given that the majority of the students are cognitively capable. <br /><br />The culture of low expectations for students with disabilities is alive and well in our Seattle Public Schools. Why do teachers and principals get a free ride on this? <br /><br />Angry parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com