tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post8612039493973853284..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Playing Devil's AdvocateMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-55236418379609381812015-01-28T22:45:55.253-08:002015-01-28T22:45:55.253-08:00Find your best lawyer..
The Indian LawyerFind your best lawyer..<br /><a href="http://www.theindianlawyer.in/" rel="nofollow">The Indian Lawyer<br /></a><br />sekharroynihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01543653143809034091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6000021345977570642012-05-11T14:20:45.890-07:002012-05-11T14:20:45.890-07:00Touche, Badger!Touche, Badger!Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21615259574582120082012-05-11T12:15:34.838-07:002012-05-11T12:15:34.838-07:00In any well run enterprise, staff can produce &quo...In any well run enterprise, staff can produce "planned" versus "actual" in a format with sufficient detail for managers to see what went wrong and how these things impacted costs.<br /><br />It stills burns me up that our ex-Transpo boss tried to lay the $2M budget bust on some unaligned developmental preschool start times. Nice one, Bishop, lay it on the SpEd.<br /><br />Produce these management reports and post them on the website.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1653558906260935862012-05-11T11:46:08.072-07:002012-05-11T11:46:08.072-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65830831648494193352012-05-11T11:24:02.058-07:002012-05-11T11:24:02.058-07:00No explanation has ever been offered (as far as I ...No explanation has ever been offered (as far as I can tell) for why half the busses that were going to be dropped this year, were retained.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38362374540635568192012-05-11T09:45:48.003-07:002012-05-11T09:45:48.003-07:00Anyone still reading this thread? Perhaps I'l...Anyone still reading this thread? Perhaps I'll post in a fresher thread later, but this post by ostrich deserved a response.<br /><br />ostrich said: <i>The only consistent thing about SPS is how expensive and confusing it is for this district to do anything. And they want me to vote for the $1 Billion + Levies? Ha, ha, ha! Please, convince me some more.</i><br /><br />This is both a problem and an opportunity.<br /><br />The district only <i>really</i> pays attention to a couple things. Money and pride. And frankly, sometimes I wonder about the pride.<br /><br />It's a problem because if enough people get sufficiently frustrated with the district to fail this levy, we're going to have some serious problems with capacity moving forward. (an aside, if it fails, I'd like to know what the opportunities are as far as repackaging for a revote in the near future)<br /><br />But this also an opportunity. When a HUGE clusterf like this ridiculous set of transportation proposals comes up, it's an opportunity for the community (particularly if the media gets onboard) to attach the frustration to an action, i.e. voting No on the levy. Do I <i>want</i> this to happen? Not really. I'd much prefer that the district gets their head on straight and comes back to the table with a realistic proposal that doesn't infuriate huge portions of their constituents. Perhaps something along the lines of Eric B's proposal.<br /><br />But it always seems like there has to be some kind of negative consequence for the district before they'll pay attention to families. If this levy is perceived to be threatened over a measly <i><b>potential</b></i> $1 million bus savings plan that enrages thousands of families, I think the proposal will disappear faster than MGJ after she was fired.<br /><br />Let me reiterate that the $1M savings is only a guess. The previous guess at transportation savings didn't exactly work out as planned.<br /><br />This is not a compartmentalized problem affecting dozens or even hundreds of families. When you start messing with start times you're affecting thousands or even tens of thousands of families. A lot of people have signed the opinion poll already, stating their displeasure, the displeasure just needs to be attached to an action to be effective.dwnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86181180186423489982012-05-11T08:48:30.851-07:002012-05-11T08:48:30.851-07:00It's possible that other districts simply offe...It's possible that other districts simply offer much more restrictive bus service. However, given the sloppiness of the plan presented, I strongly suspect transportation didn't make sure that the comparison of per-student transportation costs was actually comparing the same group of cost segments.<br /><br />Not having been there when the "analysis" was done, I can only guess. So this is a guess. I think SPS administrators took what they knew to be SPS <em>total</em> transportation costs (taxi service, basic transportation, SpEd, APP, Title I opt-outs, etc - and possibly also administrative costs) but a) only did basic transportation costs for the other districts and b) didn't note exceptions like although APP routes are expensive, the district both piggybacks other students on those routes and gets additional revenue from the state, so that those routes are actually slightly profitable.<br /><br />A little late, but just a thought.<br /><br />Also, in 2008, SPS spent $1.1M on taxi service - and at the time, at least, taxi service was ineligible for reimbursement under the state transportation plan.Meghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12795753563127975720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59765863884660733752012-05-11T08:08:24.456-07:002012-05-11T08:08:24.456-07:00(To clarify re Option ("Choice") Schools...(To clarify re Option ("Choice") Schools: transportation is not provided outside the "Middle School Attendance Area." "Geo-zones" are the (supposedly small) areas surrounding the Option Schools whose residents have preferential placement at the Option School. People in the Geographic Zones SHOULD be able to walk to the school. In my opinion if they can't then the GeoZone is too big.)Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22860140739821016962012-05-11T07:48:27.503-07:002012-05-11T07:48:27.503-07:00Transportation is not provided to families outside...Transportation is not provided to families outside of geo-zones for Choice Schools. (We are 3.5 miles from our school and are responsible for our own transportation.) I commit 10 hours a week commuting to our school (including parking, walking my child to school, etc.) at a cost of about $16/week in fuel.<br /><br />Families who are at a poor-performing school can opt-out (NCLB-related) and attend any school and my understanding is that they are eligible for busing. <br /><br />Does SPS realize that they can look outside of Transportation to cut $1M? What they are doing is inefficient. <br /><br />Also, so much research points to later start times for high school students and later HS start times reduce accidents, improve performance.<br /><br />--Signed,<br /><br />AghastAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65126823343271615862012-05-11T07:46:15.722-07:002012-05-11T07:46:15.722-07:00The only consistent thing about SPS is how expensi...The only consistent thing about SPS is how expensive and confusing it is for this district to do anything. And they want me to vote for the $1 Billion + Levies? Ha, ha, ha! Please, convince me some more.<br /><br />ostrichAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63930417806749340132012-05-11T07:24:48.058-07:002012-05-11T07:24:48.058-07:00Apparently, I came across in my last comment as a ...Apparently, I came across in my last comment as a rich, stay-at-home mom insensitive to the needs of working parents. For the record, I do work, and with my husband and I pulling in a whopping $1700 per month salary my kids qualify for free lunch. However, given that SPS is considering this crazy bell schedule in no way will your child being bused guarantee you getting to work on time. How about investing in before and after school programs instead? Then, kids can walk/bike to school (healthy), or, if they live too far they can take Metro with a parent/guardian (or drive if the parent chooses). A lot of schools already have before and after school programs and, as they are licensed by the state, parents who need it can get financial assistance from DSHS to send their kids there.Erinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20013534779044464202012-05-10T23:19:23.753-07:002012-05-10T23:19:23.753-07:00If my choice is a 10:00am start time or paying for...If my choice is a 10:00am start time or paying for bus service, I would rather pay for bus service.<br /><br />Anything But 10Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1537037351358835772012-05-10T22:57:30.615-07:002012-05-10T22:57:30.615-07:00Lakeside, U-Prep, Evergreen and a bunch of other...Lakeside, U-Prep, Evergreen and a bunch of other private schools provide Metro Custom buses to their schools for around $1,100 year or around $100/months. WAY LESS THAN THE SPS COSTS for TRANSPORTATION. And, these bus routes are from many disparate locations, including service routes from the east side.<br /><br />If SPS can't figure out how to provide bus service, it should just get Metro to do it ... and pay for the kids' Orca card to ride these custom buses. If Metro can do it for the privates, surely it can do it for the publics and at a fraction of the cost of the transportation department.<br /><br />-Give it to Metro.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87696592284670700672012-05-10T22:49:47.921-07:002012-05-10T22:49:47.921-07:00The school district would have an extra $7.3 milli...The school district would have an extra $7.3 million to fund transportation if they had sold MLK Elementary to Bush School. Instead, they sold to a church that promised to use the property to support youth education. It seems that a better way to support youth education is to sell surplus property to the highest bidder and use the money to avoid jerking around students yet again over when and how they get to school.Badgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18225026593522458226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34656989546612877392012-05-10T22:11:51.552-07:002012-05-10T22:11:51.552-07:00Erin- I'd be happy for my kid to walk to schoo...Erin- I'd be happy for my kid to walk to school. Clearly, you don't have a job and can spend time dawdling around the hood. Either that or you are letting your 5 year old walk 2 miles alone - doubtful. Why don't you come walk my kid to school so he can get some fresh air and exercise since I unfortunately have to go work. Better yet, you could be the "driver" of walking bus routes helping out several families.Get a cluenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83720833550875973502012-05-10T21:37:40.628-07:002012-05-10T21:37:40.628-07:00Let the kids walk to school! It's better for t...Let the kids walk to school! It's better for their minds and bodies. If they live over 1.5 miles, they can take the city bus with a parent/guardian and this would not affect school bell times. My 5 year old walks over 2 miles a day, even in the rainy winter, and is fine with it. Healthy, lifelong habits...Erinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-73301997936628895532012-05-10T21:06:29.728-07:002012-05-10T21:06:29.728-07:00On the special ed issue - first of all, around 60...On the special ed issue - first of all, around 60% of the kids are in resource room, (also called "enhanced resource room" or "ICS" - integrated comprehensive services). These special ed kids have no special transportation entitlement, and attend schools based on the NSAP. Around 40% of the special ed students are in programs and are assigned on a willy-nilly basis, including a bunch of preschoolers. The assignment plan here is "any seat for any butt anywhere". All of these students have something called "door-to-door" on their IEPs - which mandates home pickup with a handoff between adults at both points in the trip. Because of the "any-seat-any-butt" plan, there are often no bus routes available to transport the butt. In that case, taxi's have to be sent to transport students. Probably about 1/2 of these students are sent in a region close to their home, the other half are sent anywhere. Many schools send students out of region because their programs are full, even filled with students from other the same regions they are sending their students to.<br /><br />-readerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68693776632039577302012-05-10T20:35:47.556-07:002012-05-10T20:35:47.556-07:00Yes, I believe it is that the cost of ORCA cards- ...Yes, I believe it is that the cost of ORCA cards- it's something like $36 a student for this year, according to one doc I found - there appears to be more than just those more than 2.5 mile from school who get them though, but it's unclear.Someonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-37494237840473762352012-05-10T19:13:29.890-07:002012-05-10T19:13:29.890-07:00(ah, my post just evaporated!)
Anyway, referring t...(ah, my post just evaporated!)<br />Anyway, referring to the Feb. 8th presenatation again:<br /><br />p.16 Major Contracts page lists First Student (bussing, etc) at $19.7M, and Metro (Orca) at $2.6M.<br /><br />Then, p. 21 lists Annual Cost for Student on Public transit $222. (thats only $22/mo if for 10 months?)<br /><br />Thus, $2.6M/$222= 11,711 students? Are there really that many MS & HS students living >2.5 miles from their schools getting Metro passes?SPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12726295210572942506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-74077487783205334402012-05-10T19:04:12.863-07:002012-05-10T19:04:12.863-07:00Do corporations get discounts from Metro when they...Do corporations get discounts from Metro when they provide passes for their employees? I have been told, that SPS does not give bus passes to it's employees (or provide them as pretax perks even). CRAZY.Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-3970259916005719962012-05-10T19:01:50.314-07:002012-05-10T19:01:50.314-07:00The former head of transportation told me last yea...The former head of transportation told me last year that SPS earns a small profit (i.e., State Reimbursement - Price of Orca cards > 0) for every student who rides Metro. This may or may not be true for next year. <br /><br /><b>Someone</b>, do you think your $2million is the price of the Orca Cards? From what I have been told, SPS does not receive a discount from Metro for the cards (that seems CRAZY to me.) If so, $2mill/$45*10 months = 4,444 kids who get Metro passes, which seems reasonable.Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79531503714147785582012-05-10T17:59:35.834-07:002012-05-10T17:59:35.834-07:00@Charlie- the ORCA passes cost about $2 million or...@Charlie- the ORCA passes cost about $2 million or so - don't remember right now if it was $2.2 million or...<br /><br />I believe some of the cost differences are because SPS is reimbursed less than other districts by the Feds - but that's word of mouth, so may be not totally accurate.Someonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-28077669565130159152012-05-10T17:42:23.397-07:002012-05-10T17:42:23.397-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.SPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12726295210572942506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29143864668522832922012-05-10T17:42:22.982-07:002012-05-10T17:42:22.982-07:00Dorothy is correct- check out the presentation (an...Dorothy is correct- check out the presentation (and minutes) for Feb. 8th Oversight Work Session: Transportation. Some of Charlie's questions are covered in the presentation.<br /><br />1st, it is strange that the Board approved the "Transportation Service Standards 2012-13 (complete with specific bus times for the Tiers) one week before this transportation work session was held.<br /><br />2nd- in the minutes, note that "President DeBell asked that a fiscal analysis accompany any proposed changes in bell times in the future." Since bell times are directly tied to bus arrival/departure times, any changes for either of these would then require a "fiscal analysis" (definitely none was included in the Board Action May 2nd).<br /><br />The PowerPoint presentation has some interesting pages, but only part of what we are asking. For example, p. 13 has total 16,495 K-8 students for 2011-12 routed, but not the district K-12 total, and not broken down any more than that.<br /><br /><br />Page 21 shows the 2009-10 cost per expected student rider for Seattle $777 and annual cost for student on public transit $222, so how to explain the $1,663 "Total cost per weighted student" on page 22? <br /><br />P. 22 also includes more district total comparions, including only $626 for Northshore, $675 Bellevue & $711 Lk. Washington. The graph shows a total of approx 20,000 students in SPS being transported by all the various methods, so the $1,663 per student is just for students getting transportation (and not district total).<br /><br />It is difficult to differentiate the color codings, but on p. 22 & p.23 it appears that SPS has either 1/3 or 2/3 bus passes (at the lower $222/year) so it is even more difficult to understand how we end up with an ave. cost per student transported at $1,663? <br /><br />Finally, all of the data seems to come from OSPI's Annual Financial Statements & Rider Reports, so if someone wants to check out more of this---SPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12726295210572942506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59710361935937062832012-05-10T17:22:41.286-07:002012-05-10T17:22:41.286-07:00I'm originally from the Denver area, so I keep...I'm originally from the Denver area, so I keep somewhat abreast of the Denver local news. I was reading the Denver Post comment section yesterday from a story about the state legislature punting a bunch of bills at the end of the session 'cause the Rs wouldn't quit delaying a vote on civil union. You'd probably guess that Colorado is more conservative than Washington, but the comments on the Seattle Times site are substantially more vitriolic, radical and/or ignorant. Sad.Scrawny Kayakernoreply@blogger.com