tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post8716907657386445664..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: This is What I Think (No, Believe)Melissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger86125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38584857137983343312010-11-14T23:32:51.344-08:002010-11-14T23:32:51.344-08:00Troubled, I was careful to say that I did NOT mean...Troubled, I was careful to say that I did NOT mean the Board had (or would) personal take money. <br /><br /> I meant that I believe - and this is just a gut feeling but I cannot find any other explanation - that there is a deal in place by the powers that be in Seattle with the Board and the district. (Again, these are 7 bright people. Why would they all suddenly go blind and deaf to the realities of TFA AND their responsibilities to parents?)<br /><br />Give us all the planks of national ed reform (TFA being one of them) and money will come to the district. <br /><br />I wouldn't say they are "changing <br />district policy and practice". I would say they are willfully ignoring it. I believe that the Board thinks that if we try everything that all the other education kids are trying, our district will succeed. That there is no clear and convincing evidence is not material. They believe they are doing this for the greater good. But the minute you override established policy, ignore ethical issues and refuse basic notification to the people whose children will sit in these classrooms, you lose credibility. We elected them for their judgment but also to represent those who elected them. And that means everybody, not just those with money.<br /><br />That our Board knows that this district has done NOTHING to tell parents what they are planning is reprehensible. Harium said to me "yes" when I asked about making sure parents of TFA taught students will know and understand their FERPA rights but that was all. He didn't say, "Melissa, I understand that concern. I will work with my colleagues to make sure that every single parent is aware of this issue." It's troubling that he didn't say more than yes. And it makes me doubt that he will.<br /><br />We need leaders who consider what is best for OUR district - and they can consider everything and anything - is what is most important to me.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-28639707924417209322010-11-13T19:17:33.470-08:002010-11-13T19:17:33.470-08:00I'm interested that there hasn't been foll...I'm interested that there hasn't been follow up to the main idea of this post: <br /><i>But they will pass this agreement and they will do it because they have been bought. Not personally of course but our district and Board have heard the siren song of more money from someone. "Sign up TFA and watch a large "grant" come your way." </i><br /><br />I just want to make sure I'm reading this right: you are saying that the Board (and District leaders) have been bribed. They are making key policy and programmatic decisions in exchange for cash? <br /><br />Melissa, I hope you will correct me if I've misunderstood. If I have not, would you be willing to name the specific District officials and Board members you feel have accepted the bribe, and/or are changing district policy and practice for the promise of money in the future? <br /><br />These people would be acting not just completely without ethics, but I think, illegally. I hope you will expose them if you have any information along these lines.<br /><br />Can you clarify for me if you think they have a specific agreement for taking this action in exchange for the promise of funds for the district in the future? [which I would call accepting a bribe; however, I am not a lawyer, perhaps I don't understand the legal intricacies here]troublednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85973003890286482742010-11-12T10:08:02.600-08:002010-11-12T10:08:02.600-08:00Well, here is what Tennessee and 19 other states a...Well, here is what Tennessee and 19 other states are gboing to require of graduating teachers:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.tennessean.com/article/20101110/NEWS04/11100378/Tennessee-tests-more-stringent-teacher-licensing-standards" rel="nofollow">Teacher licensing standards get tougher - now you have to prove you can teach</a><br /><br />And we're letting into our most vulnerable classes TFA recruits with 5 weeks "boot camp" training... and we're agreeing to them being conditionally certificated and they wont stay more than 2 years and (after the first year?) we're paying through the nose for this????<br /><br />I think this would fall under any reasonable person's definition of insanity...Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10957625970566087562010-11-11T21:47:44.342-08:002010-11-11T21:47:44.342-08:00to A Teacher
The training I refer to is post B.A. ...to A Teacher<br />The training I refer to is post B.A. degree, and there are many programs that offer teacher certification that are at the shortest 1 year (SPU) and up to 2 years (UW) My program was 1 1/2 years long after I had a B.A. in science. <br /><br />Whatever program someone goes through post college, all of them offer course work that is devoted to curriculum development, assessment, classroom management, special needs, etc. <br /><br />My point is yours, that TFA teachers do not have to do any of this, and that is wrong and foolish to equate their training with a fully certificated teacher's training.peonypowerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17509224675997284520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36618170321304251942010-11-11T17:53:03.706-08:002010-11-11T17:53:03.706-08:00Thank you, A teacher. That is a big difference, an...Thank you, A teacher. That is a big difference, and I wouldn't want my kid in a classroom with a TFAer after hearing the difference in training and experience.seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79833587323361316122010-11-11T17:19:34.494-08:002010-11-11T17:19:34.494-08:00Perspective,
The U.W. teaching program I went thro...Perspective,<br />The U.W. teaching program I went through required 60 quarter credits of education classes in addition to 15 credits of interning. This is two solid years of curriculum and instruction. You apply to the teaching program after you have finished four years of college and received your BA. You are also required to pass a very strenuous federal teaching test (the Praxis) on both the content you are teaching and teaching practices. TFA teachers do not need to do any of this. <br /><br />So, they come to the classroom with only 5 weeks of training and the faulty memory of how they were taught to help them design teaching units and manage a class while state certified teachers come with two years of actual training in teaching. Most will have at least two years and some will have three years of teaching credit beyond their BA because they are required to return to college after their first year of teaching. I have never heard of a teacher only having one year from a Teacher Education Program but some colleges have shorter programs. <br /><br />Courses you would take in a university program include courses in educational psychology, reading disability, how to design classroom based assessments, classroom management, methods for teaching underperforming students, using cooperative learning, how to teach accelerated learners, how to design learning centers and create focused, small group instruction, etc. <br /><br />There is so much to learn that genuinely makes a difference and it can't possibly be learned in five weeks. <br /><br />But this isn't about closing the achievement gap. This is about MGJ getting even with the teachers who voted her "no confidence". Isn't that obvious?A Teachernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6656496359692701622010-11-11T15:30:59.497-08:002010-11-11T15:30:59.497-08:00That is a big difference.That is a big difference.seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-48381289099556454672010-11-11T15:20:31.206-08:002010-11-11T15:20:31.206-08:00I know that to become a highly certificated scien...I know that to become a highly certificated science teacher I had to have a degree in the subject area that I was planning to teach, take 1 year of education classes, and then 12 weeks of student teaching (in which you must meet all the requirements of the state to in order to finish student teaching- some classmates taught longer than 12 weeks.) In addition, there was a state general exam and science specific exam that had to be passed. Even after this the state issues a conditional residency certificate that can be renewed after 2 years to a full residency certificate that is good for 5 years, after which a teacher must either complete a professional certification program or become a National Board Certified Teacher in order to be issued a continuing teaching certificate. In essence- it takes at least a year of education classes to earn a certificate, which is a lot longer than 5 weeks. <br /><br />Also someone asked about science teachers averaging 2.5 years in the field this is the national average not just Seattle.peonypowerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17509224675997284520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10324383801498401302010-11-11T14:37:33.199-08:002010-11-11T14:37:33.199-08:00Thanks, but that wasn't my question mirmac. An...Thanks, but that wasn't my question mirmac. Anyone else have the info I requested?seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-73661469119176092182010-11-11T14:36:52.384-08:002010-11-11T14:36:52.384-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13309269653855696672010-11-11T14:24:52.872-08:002010-11-11T14:24:52.872-08:00Perspective,
For starters the question isn't ...Perspective,<br /><br />For starters the question isn't what it takes to get a cert. It is what does it take for a fully certified (not <a href="https://k12.wa.us/certification/Teacher/Limited.aspx" rel="nofollow">conditionally certified</a>) teacher to meet the definition of "highly qualified" to teach in Title 1 schools in Washington State. Read this and check the OSPI site for TitleIIA<br /><br /><a href="http://www.k12.wa.us/TitleIIA/HQT/pubdocs/NCLB-HQTResourceManual.pdf#Plan" rel="nofollow">www.k12.wa.us/TitleIIA/HQT/pubdocs/NCLB-HQTResourceManual.pdf#Plan<br /></a>mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29290160381561312522010-11-11T12:04:19.450-08:002010-11-11T12:04:19.450-08:00Yes, Maureen, TFA people are really, really smart,...Yes, Maureen, TFA people are really, really smart, and:<br /><br />THEY know how to address the achievement gap, dang it! and<br />THEY believe every child can succeed!<br /><br />Not like that dumb staff the district is deprofessionalizing by stating in the School Board Action Report on TFA that they want to "broaden the pool," combined with the rationale given in the TFA contract that they are partnering with TFA to address the achievement gap.<br /><br />In thse two official documents, the dsitrict is saying "we need more applicants that can address the achievement gap, even if they aren't teachers, because other, fully certified applicants aren't up to the task, and, by implication, we need to bring in fresh [cheap], smart smart, encouraging achievement-gap-busters because the current staff just ain't up to snuff."<br /><br />And people wonder why the staff gave a 99% vote of no-confidence.<br /><br />If the superintendent isn't satisfied with her staff, maybe she should find another job, because she's certainly lost their respect and can't, thereby, function effectively.seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8566407245523637972010-11-11T11:58:56.681-08:002010-11-11T11:58:56.681-08:00I'd like to compare apples to apples:
What do...I'd like to compare apples to apples:<br /><br />What does it take to become a cert teacher? <br /><br />I know that it requires a 4 year degree. If you take out the math, science, LA, classes, how many hours are actually spent in "teacher specific" classes, and how about interning?<br /><br />Compared to: TFA teachers who already have a 4 year degree, 5 weeks of training, and will have ongoing classes to become certified.seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9404453556505659272010-11-11T11:40:34.289-08:002010-11-11T11:40:34.289-08:00The fact that the TfA boosters skirt around so pol...The fact that the TfA boosters skirt around so politely is that they are all REALLY REALLY SMART. So they only need five weeks to learn what those poor dense teaching students do over the course of years. No disrespect intended of course, the world needs dense people too.Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-48777181749523664672010-11-11T11:03:20.659-08:002010-11-11T11:03:20.659-08:00Actually, spening two full years and then returnin...Actually, spening two full years and then returning for another year to focus on best teaching practices does make a better teacher than a kid fresh out of college who spends two months in a program and joins to have their debt cut in half then leaves after teaching in a "poor" school. Where is the logic, Geek, that you think that someone who only spends two months learning the profession would be equal to someone who spends three years learning the profession? Does the logic apply to physics, too? Does someone who studies physics for two months equal someone who spends three years at it? What exactly do you think it takes to teach, anyway? Just put some college kid in there with two months training and they're good to go? I don't think Geek is the correct term for you--try, DENSE instead.Eckstein Momnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76057153903210319652010-11-11T09:05:09.328-08:002010-11-11T09:05:09.328-08:00Mirmac 1, could you e-mail me please? I just rea...Mirmac 1, could you e-mail me please? I just read the whole e-mail interchange and I would like to ask you some questions. <br /><br />sss.westbrook@gmail.comMelissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56891348778550627422010-11-11T09:00:02.160-08:002010-11-11T09:00:02.160-08:00The Reformers see Seattle as a key domino in the l...The Reformers see Seattle as a key domino in the line that they must knock down. If they can't get the reforms they want, like High Stakes Testing, Merit Pay, and weakening union protections in Seattle, it could spell doom for them as they try to "take all their programs to scale" as Arne Duncan says constantly. <br /><br />It's not about the kids, as they love to say, it's about the Reformers believing they are better than others, despite mountains of failures in their wakes. <br /><br />I was listening to Stephen Colbert interview Davis Guggenheim recently, and Guggenheim said it all when, instead of saying "our kids aren't smart enough" (which he never says) he lamented, and I quote, "The Shortage of SKILLED WORKERS." <br /><br />SKILLED WORKERS, folks. That's what this is all about. Bright futures? Only as bright as the Oligarchs will allow for their peasants, uh, er, I mean SKILLED WORKERS. <br /><br />I stand against the Reformers because their de-humanizing view of our children is not mine, and never will be. <br /><br />All they care about is PERFORMANCE. Not intelligence. Not critical thinking. PERFORMANCE. 'Nuff said.wseadawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08750439461734046035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46181131050308310432010-11-11T08:48:43.629-08:002010-11-11T08:48:43.629-08:00I think TFA is a great program, but it's focus...I think TFA is a great program, but it's focus should be sending teachers to parts of the country without teachers, to places lots of folks don't want to go.<br /><br />Seattle ain't such a place. We have a plethora of un- and under-employed teachers. <br /><br />It's a solution without a problem, here.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509275012407964057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50918707954058403962010-11-10T23:31:28.871-08:002010-11-10T23:31:28.871-08:00You're telling me going through the process de...You're telling me going through the process described at this OSPI will not cost SPS a dime?<br /><br /><a href="https://k12.wa.us/TitleIIA/HQT/pubdocs/ProceduresforHiringaTeacherNotYetHighlyQualified2009-10SY.doc" rel="nofollow">ProceduresforHiringaTeacherNotYetHighlyQualified2009-10SY</a>mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-4846764770012306952010-11-10T22:24:46.055-08:002010-11-10T22:24:46.055-08:00Kathy,
I'm referring to the documents that Mi...Kathy, <br />I'm referring to the documents that Mirmac linked to above- pg 3 of the document. Jessica deBarros explains in an email to the Garfield librarian dated 6/8/10, that <i>they</i>, the district, understand that many test are administered in HS, and this can "burden" students and staff. The solution when MAP was introduced for 9th graders, was to eliminate the PSAT. "Thus, 9th graders take MAP instead of the PSAT."<br /><br />It's a document worth reading. Many thanks to the staff who continue to share their day-to-day realities with the board and district admin.Noranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7244661163450327492010-11-10T20:10:44.023-08:002010-11-10T20:10:44.023-08:00Nora, these documents represent but a portion of t...Nora, these documents represent but a portion of the documents made available to appellants of the 2010 NWEA MAP contract. There remains over 1.5 yrs worth of discourse similar to this nugget that has yet to be provided under the Public Disclsure Act. One would think that SPS would know by now its obligations under the law. Those lawyers have to be good for something more than covering MGJ's rear flank.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-69820177664173059492010-11-10T20:08:08.461-08:002010-11-10T20:08:08.461-08:00" Because of concerns re: time dedicated to t..." Because of concerns re: time dedicated to testing, 9th graders will take MAP instead of PSAT."<br /><br />Nora,<br />What is this about?Kathynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15580212891664338372010-11-10T19:49:32.084-08:002010-11-10T19:49:32.084-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.owlhousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01630051682382673928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24920282757368879922010-11-10T19:47:33.103-08:002010-11-10T19:47:33.103-08:00Mirmac-
Thanks so much for the link @ 2:37. While...Mirmac- <br />Thanks so much for the link @ 2:37. While I am disgusted by Holly Furgeson's humorous (?) response that she "wishes" the district could tell citizens/school staff not to communicate to the board, I find other aspects of the document equally disturbing. <br /><br />1- Ms. deBarros wants the CAO and Director of Policy and Government to know that the Garfield librarian is "continuing to direcly contact the board about MAP." (She does not find it important to share the <br />content or concerns of the contact.)<br /><br />2- Because of concerns re: time dedicated to testing, 9th graders will take MAP instead of PSAT.<br /><br />3-"Many high schools" have requested additional (more than 3x yearly) MAP testing for "students who are behind".<br /><br />4- The question of "how many principals and teachers were surveyed" re: MAP usefulness remains unanswered. <br /><br />5- Kindergartners "have trouble on computers" so could be introduced to computers in the first week of school so as to be familiar with /test appropriately.<br /><br />6- Perhaps only 1st time 9th graders should be tested.<br /><br />...<br /><br />I see "transcript of evidence" at the bottom of all pages. Can yo share details?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06971101891623554620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36509879264329650742010-11-10T19:24:39.190-08:002010-11-10T19:24:39.190-08:00Yes, and all whistleblower protections should be r...Yes, and all whistleblower protections should be repealed because they're all a bunch of troublemakers.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.com