tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post889945501203556052..comments2024-03-28T23:38:22.511-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Closing Opportunity GapsMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-28453599171928535012015-11-25T09:50:26.545-08:002015-11-25T09:50:26.545-08:00Three responses to Sour Grapes:
1. I asked what e...Three responses to Sour Grapes:<br /><br />1. I asked what evidence you would accept that would prove that historical racism existed. You could not or would not answer. Instead, you said “<i>There is no evidence of systemic racism at SPS.</i>”<br /><br />Well, I guess if there is no evidence that you would accept, then you would have to conclude that there is no such evidence. But is that based on your refusal to accept any evidence or on the actual absence of evidence? Take a moment and consider what I asked you: What evidence you would accept? Consider this: If there were systematic racism, what would it look like?<br /><br /><br />2. You wrote:<br /><i>"1. We are going to dramatically reduce class sizes in schools with high concentrations of students from historically underperforming groups. The goal is a maximum class size of 17."<br /><br />It seems like you are advocating for "separate and not equal" systems and you will decided by your criteria who will get the betterment.</i><br /><br />Yes. That is precisely what I am advocating. Equality means that each student gets the same. Equity means that each student gets what they need. Since students all need something different, equity and equality are opposites. I’m pursuing equity in education, not equality.<br /><br />3. You wrote:<br /><i>"no longer criminalize male culture or African-American culture."<br /><br />Really? Do you mean black male culture(BMC), like that which is shown on MTV? Africa has NOTHING to do with these men, unless they are African transplants. Have any of you ever spoken to an African young man (AYM) in Seattle? I think you would be surprised by what a AYM thinks of the BMC here and around the US.<br /><br />The BMC legitimized by MTV has NO place in Seattle public schools.<br /><br />Can someone articulate which BMC attributes we wont criminalize?</i><br /><br />I was very clear about what I meant. I wrote: “The goal is to acknowledge that the school culture should reflect the culture of all of the school's community, and not just the teachers' culture.” Since, as you write, the students’ culture is not the culture depicted on MTV, then of course I didn’t mean that culture.<br /><br />Your failure to understand a simple statement and your outlandish interpretation of it suggests that you are being intentionally obtuse. That’s neither helpful nor productive to the conversation and reflects an interest in derailing the discussion or ending it rather than contributing to it. I'm a little curious about why you would want to derail this conversation and a little sad that you were successful in that effort.<br /><br />As for cultural attributes that we should not criminalize, I can offer some examples:<br /><br />A. Moving around. Boys are kinetic. It is unreasonable to expect boys to sit still in a chair at a desk for hours on end. What harm does it do the class if they move around a little bit? They need time and opportunity to do so.<br /><br />B. Self-defense. In both male culture and African-American culture people are expected to defend themselves when attacked. It is, in fact, virtuous to do so. Our school rules do not distinguish between the one who started the fight and a participant who was attacked and defended himself.<br /><br />C. Students who defend themselves from teachers are seen as insubordinate. Teachers sometimes don’t recognize when they have insulted a student of another culture and are shocked by the student’s response. The teacher might not even recognize it as a response but as an action initiated by the student. A review may reveal that the teacher initiated the incident.<br /><br />D. Social talking. African-American culture is a talkative culture. Again, let’s create time in the class when it is okay for the students to talk and collaborate.<br /><br />These are just a few examples. I'm sure there are others that you, as a person who is in touch with African-American culture, can identify.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23446608015458343592015-11-24T17:01:53.288-08:002015-11-24T17:01:53.288-08:00Sadly, I think we have reached the end of reasonab...Sadly, I think we have reached the end of reasonable discussion on this topic.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32170247279216128472015-11-24T17:01:38.929-08:002015-11-24T17:01:38.929-08:00"ESIW, of course Seattle is segregated. There..."ESIW, of course Seattle is segregated. There was massive red-lining for decades here. Why do you think neighborhoods, for the most part, look as they do? Really, go join the conversation over at Publicola and Crosscut where this issue has been widely discussed since the HALA report."<br /><br />Oh I see, because a community won't let low income housing in , then they are naturally racist. <br /><br />Go talk to your buddy over in Laurelhurst, my neighborhood is well diversified.<br /><br />ESIW Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24068210350199519762015-11-24T16:55:14.856-08:002015-11-24T16:55:14.856-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-37395551580491052692015-11-24T16:46:16.547-08:002015-11-24T16:46:16.547-08:00Anonymous GarfieldMom said...
"Sour Grap... Anonymous GarfieldMom said...<br /><br /> "Sour Grapes, you might choose to ignore it, but systemic racism exists in SPS. Claiming it doesn't makes you look foolish and uneducated." <br /><br />Like I wrote, it must happen at the 91 other schools, but go ahead and prove it.<br /><br />And just so we are all on the same page, define "systemic racism" and declare which "races" are being targeted. <br /><br />Sour GrapesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-58336459374674645452015-11-24T16:46:03.967-08:002015-11-24T16:46:03.967-08:00Sour Grapes, ALL parents' experience, past or ...Sour Grapes, ALL parents' experience, past or present, is subjective. C'mon.<br /><br />ESIW, of course Seattle is segregated. There was massive red-lining for decades here. Why do you think neighborhoods, for the most part, look as they do? Really, go join the conversation over at Publicola and Crosscut where this issue has been widely discussed since the HALA report. <br /><br />I am not interested in running this district nor is this issue is not about me. (And again, I always smile at people who think they can look at someone and know what their race and upbringing is. I'm not all white and I was raised in a mostly minority area.)<br /><br />If you have a problem with this initiative, I'm not the one to take it up with - that's the Board and the district.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11517161099206020532015-11-24T16:41:43.676-08:002015-11-24T16:41:43.676-08:00"This district is a better organization becau..."This district is a better organization because of this blog."<br /><br />Really? You mean it could be worst?<br /><br />LMFAOAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38285602326442176302015-11-24T16:38:49.546-08:002015-11-24T16:38:49.546-08:00Sounds like it's a very good time to split thi...Sounds like it's a very good time to split this district. If you think our district is going to have small class sizes for BLACK male students and large class sizes for the rest, then you are fools. Tell me, how is Seattle segregated? Are you falsely claiming Seattle is segregated by race? and what exactly is a "cultural specific" school? Have you bothered to see what programs schools offer in Africa? Have you ever spoken to an educated African? I think not.<br /><br />I can see there's little hope as long as white middle class liberal women continue to try and run this district from the outside.<br /><br />ESIW Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43489936500680819622015-11-24T16:35:22.471-08:002015-11-24T16:35:22.471-08:00ne thing that Melissa gets from running this blog ...ne thing that Melissa gets from running this blog is the undying appreciation from hundreds of parents who, because of this blog, have a way to get and share information about this district. This district is a better organization because of this blog.SPS Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00753456189315452834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57062400536262868132015-11-24T16:34:27.452-08:002015-11-24T16:34:27.452-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.SPS Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00753456189315452834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85296853392808004072015-11-24T16:29:31.740-08:002015-11-24T16:29:31.740-08:00Sour Grapes, you might choose to ignore it, but sy...Sour Grapes, you might choose to ignore it, but systemic racism exists in SPS. Claiming it doesn't makes you look foolish and uneducated. GarfieldMomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15346701465713463692015-11-24T16:11:21.930-08:002015-11-24T16:11:21.930-08:00I commend the District for the Goal and the Action...I commend the District for the Goal and the Action Plan (as ambitious as it is) I only wish it could have been extended to other underserved groups. Amendment 2, which was offered by Directors Patu and Peasless and supported by Peters, would have at least named other disproportionately affected groups, while keeping the emphasis on Black Males. <br /><br />Many of Charlie's action item suggestions were recommended in the First Disproportionality Task Force These recommendations were adopted by the School Board in 1975, but never implemented in the schools.<br /><br />The first group of underserved students that was brought to the attention of the District were Black students. A task force was formed by Assistant Superintendent Dr. Collin Williams in 1975 and chaired by Alex Stevens to study the disproportionality that existed between Black and white students in academic achievement. Later discipline sanctions, drop out and push out rates were examined and recorded. A District Data Profile was published ( discontinued in 2010) and other groups such as "Bilingual" and Special Education students were included in the disproportionality data. <br /> <br />There were some educators/administrators/community members that supported this data recording effort. There were many others who did not. District wide human relations training was implemented throughout the District. Cultural/ethnic/training was included. Desegregation was achieved without a court order and in many schools, integration was achieved. However, groups formed and insisted on school assignment plans where students could walk to school Busing was eliminated and neighborhood school assignments were put into place. Many Black students who had been bused to north end schools were suffering from suspensions at the end of the bus ride and their parents and others joined in the desire for neighborhood school assignments. This re segregated many schools and the recommended goals of the Disproportionality Task Forces were ignored and/or eliminated. Cultural/ethnic curriculum had not been representative unless there was a "cultural specific" school like the African American Academy or Indian Heritage School. The AAA had a higher level of academic success and fewer drop outs for Black males than those enrolled in "traditional" schools. The Indian Heritage School success rate is well documented. Both schools although successful were closed by the District. <br /><br />Finally, the Black community got tired of waiting. Africa Town was built. And now the Black male Initiative has been approved. Community members got tired of waiting for equal,let along equitable treatment to be achieved and they organized. They met with the District administrators to formally address the disproportionality that continued to exist. <br /><br /> There are other groups who are getting tired of waiting also. <br /><br />Carol Simmonsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-67362363867719577032015-11-24T16:01:00.943-08:002015-11-24T16:01:00.943-08:00From what you've posted, you currently do not ...From what you've posted, you currently do not have any students attending SPS, so your experience is subjective at best. <br /><br />My students attend schools with a large population of non Caucasian students and there are no systemic racial issues...none. <br /><br />We haven't see or heard of one racial issue in 10 years at 6 different schools. Perhaps the "systematic racism" you and your "many" insist exist must occur at the other 91 schools in the district? <br /><br />I also suppose the school board members of color simply have ignored the "systematic racism" in the Seattle school district. <br /><br />I'm trying to understand what is driving this "in my opinion" a "fairy tale" of "systemic racism" and what part you play in it. <br /><br />Why does a middle aged, apparently unemployed, white women get from running this blog and persisting such a derogatory views of the district's staff and families? <br /><br />I think it's a very fair question and it's not meant to be an attack, so I ask you, what do you get out of it? <br /><br />Sour Grapes Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35491584949643253612015-11-24T15:02:00.543-08:002015-11-24T15:02:00.543-08:00I think many would disagree with you, including me...I think many would disagree with you, including me, Sour Grapes, but you are entitled to your opinion.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38137214425468731072015-11-24T13:26:23.210-08:002015-11-24T13:26:23.210-08:00There is no evidence of systemic racism at SPS. So...There is no evidence of systemic racism at SPS. Some level of racism does exist, but it's not just a black and white issue and it's not a white oppressing black issue. <br /><br />For anyone to say there's "targeted racism against black American males" in SPS is unfounded and serves no purpose, except to advance someones agenda. <br /><br />Sour Grapes Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63845733150690071922015-11-24T13:13:18.650-08:002015-11-24T13:13:18.650-08:00I had commented last night but it wasn't here ...I had commented last night but it wasn't here this morning so I'll try to restate what I said.<br /><br />1) I believe this initiative has been a year or more in the making but there was never any real effort to let anyone know it was happening.<br /><br />2) I believe there is a community group made up of adults who are African-American males that help guide this work (I cannot seem to find or remember the name of the group.) <br /><br />3) This program seemed to be shepherded by Charles Wright, Harium Martin-Morris and Stephan Blanford. (Director Martin-Morris mentioned this effort over the last year but I remember wondering why it wasn't a focus for him the other seven years he was in office.) <br /><br />4) Looking at the stats, all the group the district wants to better-serve have academic issues. There is no one group that commands all the worst outcomes. I think that was the issue for Peaslee and Patu. They didn't care if the focus started with AA males but wanted it noted that other groups will need to see their outcomes rise as a result of this work.<br /><br />Sour Grapes, you seem to be annoyed this is happening nad/or that societal issues outside of the classroom are not be addressed. I cannot speak to the latter - it doesn't appear to be part of this discussion of work. <br /><br />I think the larger issue is the ignoring poverty is folly if you want to change academic outcomes for under-served groups. <br /><br />I would disagree that there is no racism at SPS. I think there is but how and where it translates out is another subject. However, I don't work for SPS so it's harder for me to judge.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33743044864747250962015-11-24T12:37:32.520-08:002015-11-24T12:37:32.520-08:00"1. We are going to dramatically reduce class..."1. We are going to dramatically reduce class sizes in schools with high concentrations of students from historically underperforming groups. The goal is a maximum class size of 17." <br /><br />It seems like you are advocating for "separate and not equal" systems and you will decided by your criteria who will get the betterment. <br /><br />Sour Grapes Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59258535990270232672015-11-24T12:33:22.919-08:002015-11-24T12:33:22.919-08:00Charlie, as a teacher I LOVE your action steps. I ...Charlie, as a teacher I LOVE your action steps. I know many teachers who are working to reduce gaps by including similar elements in the structure of their classrooms. Charlie knows this but did not state so I will in support of his suggestions-- each of his suggestions has significant evidence behind it, often years of uncontroverted research, demonstrating that such action steps are likely to reduce opportunity and achievement gaps. We know what to do. In some cases it will take $, in other cases political will-- or both. The only thing I'd add to Charlie's suggestions is a complete overhaul of school breakfast, similar to lunch overhaul that occurred around a decade ago. Students living in poverty in Seattle are still fed a high-sugar, low-protein, low calorie breakfast through the school nutrition program. Half a cup of cheerios and some milk does not cut it. Students need significant protein at breakfast to feel good and learn (especially if dinner the night before was not filling). Another thing I'd add to Charlie's fabulous list is increased unstructured active time for students. Lots of research behind bursts of self-directed activity supporting cognitive growth. Thanks also Charlie for pointing to the potential of MTSS. Other districts that have put muscle behind RTI and PBIS are seeing significant results where data is truly examined carefully and interventions are implemented with fidelity to the research supporting them.Tresanoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14858068767259333371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68052999087519179002015-11-24T12:18:53.579-08:002015-11-24T12:18:53.579-08:00"no longer criminalize male culture or Africa..."no longer criminalize male culture or African-American culture."<br /><br />Really? Do you mean black male culture(BMC), like that which is shown on MTV? Africa has NOTHING to do with these men, unless they are African transplants. Have any of you ever spoken to an African young man (AYM) in Seattle? I think you would be surprised by what a AYM thinks of the BMC here and around the US.<br /><br />The BMC legitimized by MTV has NO place in Seattle public schools.<br /><br />Can someone articulate which BMC attributes we wont criminalize? <br /><br />Sour Grapes Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47859297812336075662015-11-24T12:12:10.406-08:002015-11-24T12:12:10.406-08:00Charlie, there's the action plan for the count...Charlie, there's the action plan for the country.<br /><br />These are the real, intimate items that are kid-focused (not data-focused, kid-focused) that will move the needle for all students.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30018394829044428302015-11-24T11:52:28.364-08:002015-11-24T11:52:28.364-08:00Charlie -- Good start. I would add that in their n...Charlie -- Good start. I would add that in their next contract negotiation, SPS should incentivize teachers to teach in schools with large populations of historically underserved students. It has always amazed me they don't do this. <br /><br />--JvAAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68605052104107830722015-11-24T11:14:38.408-08:002015-11-24T11:14:38.408-08:00@Sour Grapes, before I offer any facts to support ...@Sour Grapes, before I offer any facts to support the statement that historical racism exists, I have to know, what facts would you accept? If there was proof of historical racism, what would it look like?<br /><br />I don't want to be in the position of offering up a bunch of data only to have you respond that it doesn't prove anything. So tell us, what would be proof of historical racism?Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8057974997060058722015-11-24T11:11:19.225-08:002015-11-24T11:11:19.225-08:00You know. I would really much rather see something...You know. I would really much rather see something that said:<br />1. We are going to dramatically reduce class sizes in schools with high concentrations of students from historically underperforming groups. The goal is a maximum class size of 17.<br />2. We are going to extend the school day and the school year in these schools. The goal is to have school extend until 4:30pm and have a half day on Saturday.<br />3. We will actively recruit volunteers to tutor and mentor students before school, after school, and on weekends. The goal is to have a volunteer for every 8 students.<br />4. We will significantly increase the number of field trips for these schools. Many will be conducted during the extended school day or week. The goal is to take every student on a three field trips a month.<br />5. We will assign significantly more Family Support Workers and they will have a set of students for whom they are responsible. They will address the individual barriers to these students' success. The goal is for each FSW to have a case load of 75 students and for them to bring their charges up to 95% attendance.<br />6. We will revise our school rules so they no longer criminalize male culture or African-American culture. The goal is to acknowledge that the school culture should reflect the culture of all of the school's community, and not just the teachers' culture.<br />7. We will make intentional efforts to motivate students. We will foster a culture within the schools that celebrates education, intelligence, creativity, and the life of the mind. Principals will be required to establish a culture plan and implement it.<br />8. We will make intentional efforts to motivate students by granting them greater opportunities to exercise autonomy, achieve mastery, and to work in service to a goal greater than themselves. These opportunities will be counted and monitored. Goal to be determined.<br />9. We will provide individualized instruction for the students who need it. This may come during the school day, during class time, during small group time, in a pull-out, in a push-in, or in the afternoon, morning, or Saturday.<br />10. The schools must assiduously adhere to the MTSS practices of data collection, review, data sharing, collaboration, the quick application of interventions, and the escalation of interventions as necessary. The smaller class sizes are intended to allow this.<br />11. These schools will be treated like Creative Approach Schools. Teachers who choose to teach in these schools must agree to work in concert with the culture of the school.<br />12. The teachers must feel supported. Principals at these schools must retain the confidence of their teaching staff to retain their positions. They will be subject to swift replacement if they fail to be effective leaders.<br /><br />There. How's that for an action plan with some actual action in it?Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-69599590833809018622015-11-24T11:11:05.204-08:002015-11-24T11:11:05.204-08:00What's missing from this action plan is the ac...What's missing from this action plan is the action part.<br />The authors of this plan acknowledge the historic and persistent gap in outcomes for African American male students and others. They have set goals for closing that gap and they have metrics to assess the size of the gap. What they don't have are action steps that will close the gap.<br /><br />Instead, they have this sort of stuff:<br />"<i>Demonstrate sincere commitment to students’ socio-emotional and academic success by fostering attitudes and behaviors that are free of bias, ridicule and intimidation, and that affirm an appreciation of cultural differences.</i>"<br /><br />For us to believe that this change (and other things like this) is what it will take to help every African American male student pass the state proficiency tests, we would have to believe that the failure to do this (and other things like this) is what is preventing so many African-American male students from passing the tests.<br /><br />We would also have to believe that the District is somehow capable of making this happen. How will the District get all of the staff who come into contact with students adopt these attitudes? Oh, right. Like this:<br /><br />"<i>Enhance effectiveness of district employees’ interactions with students and families by providing formal training and continuous learning opportunities that break down barriers,<br />increase understanding of 'cultural cues,' and promote open, proactive communication.</i>"Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20761461220900285312015-11-24T10:39:56.762-08:002015-11-24T10:39:56.762-08:00There is historical racism in SPS and in Seattle. ...There is historical racism in SPS and in Seattle. It isn't as blatant as in other parts of the country but it is there. You only have to look at Rainier Beach High School to see that it still exists.<br /><br />I don't have a problem with this plan primarily addressing AA males but I do have a problem with it not offering any concrete ideas of what they are going to do. It is true also, that if they lift up AA males and improve their situation, they will learn what works and be able to apply that to other groups with some tweaks for different cultures.<br /><br />HPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com