On Inclusion, Diversity and Equity (and Cohorts)
A reader - Isolation from Peer - recently had this to say about inclusion (bold mine):
What got me thinking about this story is because Director Jill Geary is getting loud opposition via a Facebook page from a leader in the Native American student community, Sarah Sense-Wilson, about remarks Geary made at the May 9th Board meeting. (Here's the link; Geary's remarks start at 4:01 in this section of the videotape which is immediately after public testimony.) Ms. Sense-Wilson volunteers for Urban Native Education Alliance (UNEA).
Geary said she hesitated to "pull people out of their schools when it's more important to continue to look for ways to make sure everybody's voice is heard and everybody's culture is respected in our schools and by making any group not that, I hesitate on 1) everybody's ability to get to the school in order for them or having to choose between that which is offered for their identity safety versus what is offered in a comprehensive setting. And also those voices being absent then from our comprehensive high schools because I understand that our comprehensive high schools are not safe places for everybody.
But I don't think the solution is withdrawing from them because that doesn't change the comprehensive environment. And so it doesn't allow everybody to learn and struggle with the safety of the other individuals around them.
That is my perspective. I am wedded to it and I'm not saying I'm not open to another view or vision but it is something that I have a hard time with."
She also said to the Native American group, "We need to hear more." That's a bit of a "let's push this off" kind of statement, given how long this group has been advocating.
There is much that might be said about those statements but I'll let Ms. Sense-Wilson start.
What Sense-Wilson says:
To note, the district has an effective manager in Gail Morris who heads the Native Education department. I have heard several of her reports to different Boards and she truly seems committed to the work AND has actually got initiatives going. From the district's webpage:
Federal funding for each student is available but only if a parent fills out at 506 form that is turned in on time. I recall several years back where forms were not completed correctly (both by parents and the district) and the district had to give back money given from the feds.
Ms. Sense-Wilson continues, saying she wants a "viable, inclusive, comprehensive, alternative option, Native-focused, indigenous pedagogy H.S. A school which would attract students of all races, ethnicities, cultures, abilities, and interests. A school which would centralize support and unique academic, social and cultural needs of Native students. The Native programs currently funded by SPS with Huchooesdah oversight are too susceptible to funding droughts and as programs could be defunded and closed or drastically cut based on changes in leadership and politics. Please think outside the box and consider our standing proposal and review the petition."
On the one hand, done right, this kind of high school could attract the interest of more than Native American students. As well, we are going to have a superintendent of Native American descent soon so the time might be ripe. Here's the UNEA statement about Denise Juneau's appointment:
Sense-Wilson says maybe "shared space" at Hale or Lincoln (but I doubt either school would consider it).
Here's what raised Sense-Wilson's ire - Geary's statements at the Board meeting on Wednesday, May
Geary said this back to Sense-Wilson:
I'm not sure why - if a school was funded properly - that she thinks students would have to choose
"between the full spectrum of educational offerings and supports, and cultural identity." Why would they?
Sense-Wilson then said this:
But Geary is right about tribal schools versus traditional schools that operate under different rules and funding.
She continues:
Sense-Wilson fired back that Geary is not an expert in this area and that Licton Springs doesn't have Native advocacy or leadership.
Geary, clearly stung:
From leader for deaf-hard of hearing students, Laura Gramer:
I will try to reach out to Director Pinkham on this issue but he generally does not respond to email requests.
Reader thoughts?
The HCC issue is part of much bigger philosophical issues at play in the district, which really don't just have to do with HC students. It goes well beyond that. There has been a misunderstanding and an oversimplification of detracking and inclusion. Just because these are OFTEN forces for good does not mean that in every case they are ALWAYS forces for good. HCC is caught in that battle, but HCC students aren't the only ones.
Some students benefit from having access to peers who are like them, from not being the only one like them in their class or school.
This can be true for a variety of students. Is it better to force Native American students to all attend their neighborhood schools even if there is one Native student at each assignment area school? What if this robs that one student of access to other Native American peers ? Or the chance to set aside a very general common core lesson on "What is Culture?" and focus on a very specific lesson about the Standing Rock water protectors? The chance to build community and make connections?
Do Native students benefit more from having access to other Native peers or by bringing "diversity" to students at assignment area schools?
Do deaf and hard of hearing students benefit from access to other peers like them? Does this help them learn language and allow opportunities to socialize with peers like themselves? There are numerous studies that show that mainstreamed deaf/hard of hearing students experience isolation and numerous articles citing a huge risk factor to mainstreaming deaf/hoh children because it increases isolation for that student without access to peers like them.
Do GLBTQ students benefit from having access to GLBTQ peers? It increases isolation for that student to not have access to peers like them.
Do HC students benefit from having access to HC peers? It increases isolation for that student to not have access to peers like them.
Do African American students benefit from attending a school where they are not the only African American student at the school?
In general, in a SPED context, the point to inclusion is making sure students have access to the least restrictive environment.
But for so many categories of students, inclusion performed blindly (by mandatory attendance of a geographically assigned school which can result in depriving the student of peers like them) can CAUSE ISOLATION when students are a member of a minority group.
Detracking and inclusion have been shown to be forces for good in some contexts, butit is not in the best interest of ALL students to merely blindly apply detracking/forced inclusion without attention to the needs of the particular student in question.Let's just start this discussion by saying this is NOT a discussion about HCC. It's about this thought-provoking idea that if grouping is good - a cohort grouping - for some students, why not other students? Should a student be denied a cohort they might do better with just because of where they live?
What got me thinking about this story is because Director Jill Geary is getting loud opposition via a Facebook page from a leader in the Native American student community, Sarah Sense-Wilson, about remarks Geary made at the May 9th Board meeting. (Here's the link; Geary's remarks start at 4:01 in this section of the videotape which is immediately after public testimony.) Ms. Sense-Wilson volunteers for Urban Native Education Alliance (UNEA).
Geary said she hesitated to "pull people out of their schools when it's more important to continue to look for ways to make sure everybody's voice is heard and everybody's culture is respected in our schools and by making any group not that, I hesitate on 1) everybody's ability to get to the school in order for them or having to choose between that which is offered for their identity safety versus what is offered in a comprehensive setting. And also those voices being absent then from our comprehensive high schools because I understand that our comprehensive high schools are not safe places for everybody.
But I don't think the solution is withdrawing from them because that doesn't change the comprehensive environment. And so it doesn't allow everybody to learn and struggle with the safety of the other individuals around them.
That is my perspective. I am wedded to it and I'm not saying I'm not open to another view or vision but it is something that I have a hard time with."
She also said to the Native American group, "We need to hear more." That's a bit of a "let's push this off" kind of statement, given how long this group has been advocating.
There is much that might be said about those statements but I'll let Ms. Sense-Wilson start.
What Sense-Wilson says:
Jill Geary, SPS elected Board member's recent comments in response to Native community appeal for a Native focused H.S. was (sic) outrageous. She suggested Native students sacrifice and compromise their academic success and cultural identity for the sake of white student 'diversity.' Diversity should not be at the cost of Native student success. SPS track record for the past 15 years reflects failure, upon failure, despite an overwhelming Native communities advocating for a Native focused option H.S. For an elected official to make claims that a native-focused H.S. would diminish White student diversity is absurd, ignorant and racist. Deconstructing systems of oppression requires white allies and white decision makers to LISTEN to people of color. She is as tone deaf as is Nyland. Jill Geary is using her power an status to dissuade board members from seeing the facts and solution. She is working against the voices of Native organizations, families, students and community. Please contact her and state your support for a Native focused H.S. Allies step up because White to White conversations and appeal is the only way to break through her white supremacy line of thinking.Let's note the history here when there was a Native-focused high school, from KIRO tv.
For Seattle's Native American community, the 1990s were glorious days when an entire Seattle high school was devoted to the education of the city's indigenous population.
The community says the late Superintendent John Stanford made a promise to Eagle Staff's widow.
"That the Indian Heritage High School from 1986 to 1996 would be continued," said Tom Speer, a member of the Duwamish Tribe who was appointed to the Elders Advisory Council for Urban Native Education Alliance.Info here on the Idle No More Native-focused H.S. petition.
He says subsequent superintendents have not kept Stanford's promise.
"What have they done then?" he was asked.
"They have gradually cut the monies to Indian Heritage High School time after time," said Speer. "So now all that remains of the Indian Heritage High School program is six classrooms in the attic of Northgate Mall."
To note, the district has an effective manager in Gail Morris who heads the Native Education department. I have heard several of her reports to different Boards and she truly seems committed to the work AND has actually got initiatives going. From the district's webpage:
- Seattle has about 2910 self-identified Native American students, however, we must call all the families that are Hispanic to determine if they are from a federally enrolled tribe and if they are Native American/Alaskan Native. If they are not we then have to manually remove them from this list, once this is achieved we will send the list to Department of Technology and they will remove them from the Native American/Alaskan Native list. We suspect the number will be somewhere around 1,200-1500.
- Students are distributed widely across the district.
Ms. Sense-Wilson continues, saying she wants a "viable, inclusive, comprehensive, alternative option, Native-focused, indigenous pedagogy H.S. A school which would attract students of all races, ethnicities, cultures, abilities, and interests. A school which would centralize support and unique academic, social and cultural needs of Native students. The Native programs currently funded by SPS with Huchooesdah oversight are too susceptible to funding droughts and as programs could be defunded and closed or drastically cut based on changes in leadership and politics. Please think outside the box and consider our standing proposal and review the petition."
On the one hand, done right, this kind of high school could attract the interest of more than Native American students. As well, we are going to have a superintendent of Native American descent soon so the time might be ripe. Here's the UNEA statement about Denise Juneau's appointment:
We are cautiously hopeful and optimistic for Denise Juneau to make big bold direction-changing moves to bridge the great cultural socio-economic divide which pits affluent in positions of power over decision making in Seattle Public Schools.On the other hand, where to put it? The district has little land left. It would have been great to do it at Wilson-Pacific or even Boren. Wilson-Pacific could have had a preK-12 school if there were some place to move Cascadia. There is one other place left - Memorial Stadium. (To note, I am not in favor of ANY high school at the Memorial Stadium site but a Native-focused one could possibly convince me.)
We need a leader not a bureaucrat and a champion for our voiceless not a politician. It is unclear to me how Denise will strategically approach the necessary task of aligning the SPS goals and plan with current business as usual tactics. How will Denise mend and connect community based organizations with these priorities, Nyland served to promote tokenism, favoritism and effectively fractured our urban Native community.
Many of so-called leaders do not truly represent voice of community, in fact many have conflict of interest and are serving as barriers to change. Conflict of interest because they are SPS staff and employees. Nyland elevates these folks at the expense of community, youth, and parents. I hope Denise has the stamina, open mindedness, clarity, and shared vision for real solutions and joint decision making collaboration with us. As you know UNEA represents a lot of foster care kids, native families and youth, as a grassroots organization we have boots on the ground mentality, we liste, we interact with youth and parents on regular basis.
Sense-Wilson says maybe "shared space" at Hale or Lincoln (but I doubt either school would consider it).
Here's what raised Sense-Wilson's ire - Geary's statements at the Board meeting on Wednesday, May
Geary said this back to Sense-Wilson:
I have made it clear to anyone who will listen that I believe we need to create safe spaces for students in every one of our schools. I also believe that every student needs to have access to whatever kind of education they want (including AP courses) - while being in a culturally safe space. I come from a special education background, where inclusion, respect, safety are seen as the absolute goal. I don’t support segregating “smart” kids, kids with disability, or kids with strong cultural identities (gender, racial, national, religious).
I cannot reconcile creating a school where native students would have to choose between the full spectrum of educational offerings and supports, and cultural identity. I would far rather we continue to build the model where there are regionally distributed spaces where native students can go to celebrate and share culture, get the academic and advocacy support they need, and not be in a marginalized, “hidden”, underfunded school (this is what we on the board hear all the time from our small high schools). In the meantime, I will continue to support Licton Springs k-8, and look forward to its growing enrollment from within the Native American and non-native communities. Perhaps if Licton Springs is able to create a robust pipeline to a similarly focused high school, future board members, with different perspectives than mine, would be more inclined to look at siting an option school that would have a chance at the financial resources to be successful for the students who attend, resources that are determined by headcount.Geary is right; if the students are not there, the money isn't there. But, if you build it, will they come? That's always the question. From past history - seeing the African American Academy get their own building, their own leadership and then see it fall apart and end - well, that was not pretty. It would be important to ask hard questions around that effort so there would be that knowledge of lessons learned.
I understand that my perspective is not shared by all Native Americans, but it is understood and respected by some. What I do know is that there is not consensus among the many sovereign nations and their members about how SPS should address this issue.
I'm not sure why - if a school was funded properly - that she thinks students would have to choose
"between the full spectrum of educational offerings and supports, and cultural identity." Why would they?
Sense-Wilson then said this:
A school would provide a hub for consolidating resources and support optimizing funding streams, currently Huchoosedah is overstretched, and offers supplemental academic support NOT in class instruction or curr application in class settings. Afterschool tutoring, i.e./504, credit retrieval is not enough to fill the gaps.
Our reality is that mainstream schools or neighborhood schools are not working for 1/2 population of Native students.Geary:
It is not segregation, the school is optional, inclusive and would be diverse student population just as Licton Springs. A shared space H.S. With shared IB/ HCC or advanced course opportunities is thinking outside the box, this is actually what we envisioned for L.S. Is for our L.S. To have access to RES resources, classes, library etc.....somehow you all got that wrong too.
Trib nations support Native schools Jill! Look around and every tribe in region has tribal schools.......are they perfect of course not, but evolving and making improvements for success. Many tribal leaders stand in support of this effort, so the very small group with loud decision-making are not representative of the vast majority, but Nyland empowered them, many of whom also work for SPS....conflict of interest, in addition many of these folds you speak of are home-owners and not of same sociocultural and economic fabric of the vast majority of people WE volunteer with.
Your logic does not hold water and reflects white privilege and power. I'm hopeful you will move out of the way on this, you will be standing on the wrong side of history.
I would love to see the Native American community go to Licton Springs and really foster the vision that you have for a high school. It would be a lot easier to roll it up from the vibrant holistic k-8 school you envision than to try to pull a school together from a population that is spread over the whole city. And if that won't/can't happen, for all the reasons it hasn't, then why should I think it would happen at high school? Why wouldn't we get that wrong too? And then who pays the price? ** A public high school will never be "your" school - because it is a state government entity; funded through a stream of state and federal mandates. To have something different it needs to be created through different funding streams, with different constraints. BIE and tribes fund schools, and those are the schools people seem to be testifying about. I will continue to support Licton Springs, with all of the funding constraints, and look to the Native community to show me how it can grow within our very regulated, funding constrained system to the betterment of our native studentsWhat Geary isn't saying is there is not room to expand at Licton Springs. They are already jockeying for space with RESMS. I again note that staff said maybe they could move Cascadia. Well, that wouldn't be great either because 1) where? and 2) Cascadia is an elementary building and not suited for a high school (but then again, they turned TT. Minor Elementary into the World School).
But Geary is right about tribal schools versus traditional schools that operate under different rules and funding.
She continues:
I think your vision is similar to Aviation High, with a Native focus. That is populated by multiple districts and has a huge funding and "staffing" support from the aerospace and engineering sectors. (Each student has a mentor for all 4 years.) Super cool..hard to do well... hard to replicate.Aren't there Native American students in other nearby districts who might benefit if there were Native-focused high school? If it was done once, why not again?
Sense-Wilson fired back that Geary is not an expert in this area and that Licton Springs doesn't have Native advocacy or leadership.
Geary, clearly stung:
I consult with any number of folks, as well as do research on line when people come to testify. I want to see where things are working, how they are working, what makes the. Work. I would love an example of what you propose in a large urban area, with multiple sovereign nations at play at once. I am who I am, can't change that. Tell you one thing, I will tell you what I am thinking to your face. I may be wrong, but not covert or dishonest. If that is white privilege, so be it. I will never deny that I am steeped in white privilege. That is a constant.She did have some concrete ideas:
I will also support the expansion of Šəqačib, which provides instruction and support to kids at Chief Sealth/Denny, and will be expanded to the north (Hale/JAMS?) So we have both north and south opportunities in a traffic jammed city. And I would certainly support prioritized enrollment for kids at those schools so they have access over waitlists.Now creating a new tie-breaker might comes as a shock to some but it's an interesting idea.
From leader for deaf-hard of hearing students, Laura Gramer:
One problem is that we can't force inclusion on top of a program already established.Again, noting that other students (and their parents) who are not from those groups might be very interested in attending as well. It would not be a school just for one group but with a focus from thagroup's cultural background which is very much part of the history and fabric of this country.
Second, it's natural and should be acceptable when certain groups. whether its POC or a communication access (ie deaf and HOH), NEED access to other peers just like them and peers like them help them learn language, history, social interaction, etc.
Third- It infuriates me when people clump all disabilities including deaf/hh together. Yes, disability and deaf/hh want access but each disability have unique accommodation needs. There are numerous studies that shows that mainstreamed deaf/hh experience isolation and numerous articles citing a HUGE risk factor to mainstream deaf/hh children because it increases ISOLATION for that student without access to peers like them.
I have been volunteering at BizTown for Deaf/hard of hearing kids- kids who are isolated in their school or town, always ask for more social time with other deaf kids because they don't get it at home. It doesn't matter how involved they are in sports or with family, or how good they are in school.
I will try to reach out to Director Pinkham on this issue but he generally does not respond to email requests.
Reader thoughts?
Comments
If we're trying to move toward more inclusion and better understanding, is further segregation--even if it's optional--really ideal? I understand the rationale for different schools/tracks/services based on academic needs (e.g., special ed services, HC services, academic support services for low-performing students, etc.), but I would need a lot more convincing to get behind further separation by race/ethnicity/culture. To me, those are things are best addressed via more culturally-robust curricula and instruction, as well as extracurricular and enrichment opportunities. Separate schools sounds like a step back in time, and like a great way to promote feelings of "otherness" all around.
not convinced
democracy
Whether or not there is a NA focused school, there's still the question of who decides when a cohort matters or not.
I think LS would be better supported but the district support hasn't been there. As well, most NA parents are aware of the space issues at RESMS and LS and probably believe that LS may never get the space to expand.
As usual, the district did NOT think this out well and now some tough choices will have to be made.
The planning for the next BEX is underway and it is very possible that there is some BEX related solutions. Both Whitman and Eckstein are desperately in need of renovation. If both of those schools were updated with expanded capacity, it should be possible for LIcton Springs to expand to a K-12.
This would have some big impacts and some substantial irony as the return of a K-12 school would undo the final piece of the MGJ era closures.
When advocates such as Ms. Sense Wilson see SPS sustain exclusive schooling for HC students, who happen to be mostly white and economically advantaged, then it creates an incentive for dedicated campaigns for other separate accommodations. Dismantling separate HC services would remove the argument that separate schools are needed.
All together
TL;DR: I think the district needs to develop a more coherent philosophy on how choice will be available, and how children will be accommodated when it isn't available.
At the moment I am coming down on the side of feeling like we either need more choice - perhaps all choice - with a greater variety of specialized schools. Or less choice. Everyone goes to their own school and the district figures out how to serve them.
So, at least Geary is being consistent - she comes down on the latter choice, and is willing to apply the idea across the board.
What I have observed leads me to support the former choice. It may be a nice theory that all schools can serve all kids, but the reality is that they do not. I've had three different kindergarten teachers tell me that their school can not adequately support my children's academic needs. While I deeply respect each of the individual teachers, I agree that the schools do not appear capable of providing fundamental educational requirements for my kids. So, I'm a convert to the HC cohort program, because I have seen that school do a much better job actually teaching my kids, while supporting their emotional and social development.
I also recognize that many families feel better at an option school like Licton Springs. I think our historical debt to our native families requires that we go above for those students, not just to adequate (and can say the same thing for the relatively large FRL population there). Licton Springs also does well for other students who do not fit into their neighborhood school for various reasons - trauma that makes classroom participation difficult, or a learning style that thrives under the project based learning of the school.
Regardless, I can not develop an argument for a native-focused school while simultaneously arguing against an HCC school. And that goes for every level - you get a native focused grade school, I don't know how you don't also argue for an HCC school. And if you argue that, in highschool, there should be no such thing as an HC cohort, I don't know how you argue for a native cohort. Similarly, if I feel so strongly that the HC cohort has served my kids well, I have no business arguing that no other population deserves their own cohort, even when that cohort has proved to be uniquely unwelcoming to my personal family.
(Disbanding HCC so that ethnic groups don't feel left out makes no sense to me; improving access to HCC and increasing the sensitivity of the program does. Setting aside one school where some ethnic groups can feel welcome doesn't seem like a good idea to me; building better programs so that ethnic studies are available in more schools, and required at a basic level does.)
"Dismantling separate HC services would remove the argument that separate schools are needed."
there it is. the argument against hcc is it is too choicey. too much choice is bad for the district. that is what devin bruckner (board meeting signup cheating advoacte), michael tolley, jesse wyeth and kari hanson say no to:
choice. choice. choice.
so why are they afraid of choice? some of them are supposed to be professionals focusing on best practices. choice and competent programs are the best way to serve hc students. yet they all try their best to kill the program at every moment they have. hcc pathways for none. honors for all. the list is literally endless with michael tolley's finger prints all over it.
and yeah mw. choice shouldn't be just an hc issue. ok. (honors for none is anti choice fwiw). i feel for my native american families' concerns. this is bull. i would wonder if they couldn't do a world school or nova/ indigenous people high school.
i feel for the sped families too. and the deaf/hh of families too.
cohorts work. choice works. ramming things through sps works for private schools and probably charters down the road. hcc charter school sounds out of line but i would argue you could make the case especially with matt and stephen trying to limit the white enrollment into hcc we have serious issues to deal with. mw any word on the other emails?
no caps
thanks megan. i agree with you. i think we can however help those who want more from high school. i think nova or center would benefit with augmenting a native curriculum. that would add to both programs deaf/hh could also nestle into one of those programs.
jill geary likes one size fits all. because she is a one size fits all person. white professional living in the ne. not happy with your school move them. not happen with the move get on the ptsa. are you really going to try to tell jill geary no as a principal? that is even before she is one of seven votes on the school board. she is a sped lawyer. hard to argue she isn't connected, right?
one size fits all fits for a lot of kids. but even jill geary sent her kid to choice ibx program. after being in the choice hcc cohort at wms/hims. so choice was her path. she just doesn't seem to want it for deaf kids, native kids, and well any kid that isn't her kid. since then, choice is now segregation. can't segregate the kids away others as it dilutes in the gen ed schools. but not much concern when she got her kid assigned.
no caps
hcc has nothing to do with this issue. hcc is an academic program, not cultural.
native kids should get a language immersion option school, open to others but native priority,and there should be native studies taught at every school and some serious high classes all created with native scholar input.
ap us history is not cutting it.
https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/education/native-education/new-ap-us-history-exam-perpetuates-lies-about-native-americans/
this needs to be district wide, not made into a ghetto.
river
This isn't about equity or best practices for kids or tracking. It is about simplifying enrollment. I don't think that should drive academics in this district. And yes, this derives from the MGJ years.
-Cynic
i don't know about the aa academy. it sounds like it was just that. that said this isn't race based. it is difference based. hcc/deaf-hh/ell/sped/native/2e/alternative learners are all cohorts.
walk up to coworker i want to introduce you to phil he is black like you so you should have a lot in common. not really going to fly.
have a school that celebrates hcc/deaf-hh/ell/sped/native/2e/alternative learners and allows for them to learn in an open forum. that would be swell.
devin bruckner has decided that hcc is too much for kids and they should all just go to their assignment school. so has jill geary. that is why choice is so important. and not conflating race into this subject is so necessary. not about race it is about perspective. i know as a na that i have been short changed by one size fits all. in fact we all have.
let us treat our gen-ed/hcc/deaf-hh/ell/sped/native/2e/alternative learners with as much respect as we do at our li schools. yeah i just went there.
no caps
Cohorting ELL students for any purpose other than a means to an end--English proficiency--is illegal (as SPS learned a few years back when they were busing students in order to cohort students to make service delivery easier for the adults.
Using these students as examples to support your argument to support a self-contained only service for HC students is beyond the pale.
Also, in a district as large as SPS, HC should have provide a continuum of services, where self-contained is reserved for those who are outliers and cannot get access services in their neighborhood school.
Just because teachers say, "I can't help your HC child," doesn't mean it's true. Those same teachers would likely have the same reaction toward SpEd and ELL students if the law didn't force them to provide instruction. That is where the support services to the classroom teacher come into play.
Using this continued narrative as an excuse to keep the HCC model is like the Margaret Thatcher model to public services: Starve the service, then have people complain that the service isn't sufficient, then create the need to access the service elsewhere.
If neighborhood schools were required to provide HC services, along with having support personnel, schools could service most HC students except the outliers.
Deleted EU
Well, isn’t that currently the case and the reason for minority groups’ unhappiness? This is a majority minority district and yet the teaching is geared more to white history/culture.
I think of this idea of ethnic studies like I do leaving HCC kids at their neighborhood schools - nice words but where is the plan and resources to back that up? Crickets. If there was urgency in this, I’d be impressed but Geary, among others, seems to think we need more talking.
We need more doing.
But there's a different kind of diversity gets completely ignored, and that is the ability of students who come from relatively small groups within SPS (deaf/hard of hearing, GLBTQ, HC, Native American, etc.) to be able to experience the kind of belonging at school that so many other kids experience automatically just by virtue of being part of less scarce groups.
Some students benefit from having access to peers who are like them, from not being the only one like them in their class or school.
Thank you.
Deleted EU
I know Melissa wants everything in place and running like a well-tuned machine before anyone is forced to attend their local school, but that isn't the real world.
Native American curriculum needs to be a priority at all schools, as does African-American, Southeast Asian, East African, LGBQT, etc. But segregating these groups into self-contained classrooms or schools is not the way.
I look around my kid's high school and there are clubs for different groups and the curriculum is improving. Staff is taking the lead and trying to learn about the cultures that kids come from that are different than their own and working with not just teachers, but the support staff that is often foreign-born and can provide useful input.
We live in a world that needs to incorporate the best of all cultures, not keep them isolated to themselves.
HC dad
So, in Seattle, many students of color are ALREADY attending schools with mostly students of color. Look at the demographics in the OSPI report.
So, yes, like Isolation from Peers stated, requiring students to attend their neighborhood schools is simply wrong, if only because the neighborhood school is likely to result in lower academic progress.
Why isn't the priority here to change the continued use of the neighborhood-only model for those FRL students, which is already producing worse outcomes for students in highly impacted schools?
Why is this elephant in the room being avoided in this conversation about students with academic and emotional risks?
Not reaching your academic potential carries all kinds of life-long risks.
Btw, students who have experienced trauma are often among our most isolated students.
Deleted EU
Is an ethnically specific program providing specific services to that group in order to bridge a gap that will then allow those students to succeed? That's the purpose of school so we should do that.
Should the school district become the holder, teacher, and auditor of a culture? No, it should not. That is the place of the community itself to teach in its own time and place.
I think that a magnet program would solve this particular issue. Create a magnet at a smartly chosen high school and then instead of a new building provide the services within that school. If it works well, has meaning, and isn't a token attempt then that program will grow. Which could eventually see replication in other districts. This should be funded through the city since it is a cultural program.
I am very hesitant to charge SPS or any government agency with the control and propagation of any culture because history shows how the BIA did such a smash up job. The tendency to try and have the school system teach authentic and specific culture is laudable from a well meaning perspective but having a bunch of white teachers, and they will be majority white and well meaning, isn't the answer to a community needing to aculturate its own children.
Mr. Theo Moriarty
You have an HC qualified kid who remained at a north end neighborhood school and received appropriate services? That's great for you! Which school does your child attend?
There are only 5 HC students from the Olympic Hills zone that attend Cascadia. And 8 from Northgate. 16 from Broadview-Thomson and 17 from Sacajawea and 22 from John Rogers.
Whatever your neighborhood school is, I suspect a lot of families can't afford to live in your neighborhood. Children in all neighborhoods deserve the kind of access to services and peers that your child benefits from.
choice.
that is the crux of this. theo says yes to choice (magnet program is a good idea) for the na emphasis school. i agree that center/world school/nova would be a great start for such a program.
choice.
jill geary doesn't want choice anymore after her kid has benefited from choice. some parents who used an appeal to get into hc don't want appeals any more. hypocrites?
choice.
waitlist are not moved because district staff chose not to move them.
choice.
is it really segregation if one chooses to do it? drop the segregation term. kids are not being segregated into gen ed classes. they are getting their academic needs met in gen ed classes. kids are not being segregated into hcc/app classes they are having their academic needs met.
choice.
is it really an honors class if some kids don't want to be there but are required to by the principal. honors classes are about willingness too. disgruntled and honors aren't the same thing.
choice.
yes if you choose to segregate yourselves from others na/hcc/deaf-hh/ell then sps should figure that out and provide programs for you. michael tolley should have something to do, right? kari hanson? wyeth jesse? how about all the those executive directors?
choice!
@ HC mom, I don't know what north-end elementary school your student is at, but I know that at my child's north-end elementary, with about 1/3 of the class HC-eligible (or ultimately eligible for middle school), and probably an even larger percentage Spectrum-eligible, they did NOT get appropriate differentiation. Having lots of AP and CIHS options available in high school is great and probably fine for HC students once you get to the high school level, but you do realize that this only happens in high schools that have a critical mass of HC students, right? We don't have the resources--or demand--for this at all schools, so that's the reason for HC pathways in high school. Don't get caught up in the "this worked out for us so it should work out for everyone" trap.
@HC dad, what you said about cultures and curriculum sounds great, but that doesn't preclude separate services designed for HC students, too--it's just that those services would need to also address the cultural diversity that should be better addressed everywhere. Like I said to HC mom, not all HS's are created equally when it comes to advanced offerings, and like it or not, the cohort--or really, the pathway--makes a difference in access to appropriate education. Critical mass.
@ Deleted EU, how exactly would you define "outliers"? Would it be 99th percentile instead of 98th, even if our current tests aren't sensitive enough to detect such a difference? Would you require expensive IQ testing for all? Would it be something more subjective, like parent and/or teacher recommendations, which have been shown to exacerbate racial (and maybe gender?) disparities? How would FRL, ELL, learning disabilities, etc. factor into identification of "outliers"? Would outliers be based on set criteria, or relative to school (i.e., could you not be considered an outlier at school x, but gain that designation if you switched schools?)
Re: the NSAP and attendance area schools, to be fair, it has some benefits and has had some positive impacts, too. Some schools that had experienced more "white flight" to other schools have seen some increased diversity and lower FRL rates, and student travel times have likely decreased, while parent participation is likely up. Very-high FRL schools haven't seen much improvement, but discussion of the impacts and whether or not people should be fighting for elimination of attendance area schools should look at all sides. I could go either way, depending on the data and a reasonable review of the impacts.
all types
The starting point should be how can we effectively serve everyone, not what can we do to make things appear more equitable?
all types
I started think about whether I believe in a cohort, while removing the idea of 'choice', and I finally got some clarity around what I have been thinking:
We believe in a cohort system because EITHER it is more economical AND/OR we believe students need to be with their peer groups.
The economical argument is that specialized services need to be provided, and it is more efficient to move all the students who need those services to one location and provide them once, instead of trying to duplicate the effort in every school. This is relatively easy to understand, and accommodate. For example, if you need to provide sign-language interpreters and instruction to students using them for 5 students in 5 schools, you need to pay 5 experts. If you can put the 5 students in one classroom you only need to pay 1 expert for the same service. (*Assuming multiple students can use one interpreter, which I stipulate I might misunderstand.) It is more economical to work with a cohort.
The economical argument explains all the cohorted services - Special education (of which AL is a subset), Deaf/HH, Medically fragile. It is also what appears to be common among my friends in other parts of the country - their districts provide no choice, but do provide cohort locations for these services.
Worth noting that our option schools (Hazel Wolfe and Licton Springs are the ones near me) do not meet this criteria. The schools are not providing services deemed necessary and not available elsewhere, nor are they less expensive to run. A native focused school would only be able to qualify in this regime if they were able to identify specific services that are required by native families and not available in a distributed manner. (I stipulate that it may be desirable for the native community to do just this identification; this is not an anti-native high school argument.)
This same criteria does lead us to magnet schools at the high-school level - while it may be prohibitively expensive to offer advanced art classes to all schools for the students who require or desire them, it becomes more economical if we cluster the students who want those classes into one or two schools.
The peer group argument is that kids do better socially if they are able to find friends and classmates who are similar to them. Many people here have argued that allowing kids to develop into healthy adults requires that they do not have the isolation they may face if they do not have other similar peers at their schools. We can also argue that having a peer group allows the school to address issues specific to that peer group in an economical manner. We can observe the numerous studies that show that children who find similar peers in their schools develop more robust social-emotional skills.
Its much fuzzier, though - how do you specify who is included in a peer group? How do you specify which peer groups require a cohort? I'd argue that we see benefits for essentially every group that requires specialized services, plus our additional minority groups and ethnic groups.
I believe our option schools come into focus when we take this approach - parents opt into a school for families of a similar background (LS), or for families with an interest in e-stem (HW).
To get back to the main question at hand - Jill Geary obviously dismisses the peer group argument, and appears to be optimistic enough to believe that the economical argument doesn't exist.
I think the peer group argument holds a lot of weight, if we view students as whole people not just test score generators. And I'm extremely skeptical that the economic issues can be addressed sufficiently.
Whenever this choice conversation starts, there is lots of speculation about choice but precious few facts in the conversation. The NSAP gets a pretty bad rap for creating disparity problems. More numbers pointed out the drastic change in SPS FRL numbers. if you go back even further, the FRL numbers were over 50%. This was one of the primary drivers for the NSAP.
Back in 2002, when the talks around the NSAP started, SPS FRL numbers was about 50% while Seattle's FRL number was closer to 20%. This was a clear indication that the middle class was simply not attending public schools. Under the old 100% choice system, the disparity that we see today with our schools was far greater. The choice system created a handful of winning schools with long waitlists and a handful of schools that were severely impacted with no tools for creating stability.
*Evidence has emerged that academic outcomes for everyone are improved in economically and racially diverse schools (e.g. https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/03/16/515788673/try-this-one-trick-to-improve-student-outcomes).
*The current arguments around the equity of PTA fundraising to support schools would be moot if SPS school attempted to draw boundaries that created diversity within the school. And yes, this can be achieved without north/south busing.
However, I had a recent conversation with a Muslim friend who is scared in the current political environment and argued against diversity. Why, she asked, should she put her young children in a potentially unsafe environment simply so my kids should experience diversity?
I don't know the answer, but I appreciate the conversation.
-NW
Our other son loved Ballard and the Biotech Academy there. It worked well for him.
Too many administrators want a one size fits all approach. Promising programs, like Montessori, get watered down by neglect. I worry about cuts in funding to the arts at Center or a retreat from Academies like Biotech or the Maritime Program. Parents and students like these programs.
If SPS is going to offer specialized programs, they need to stand behind them and replicate the successes in other schools. Instead, they retreat and look mediocre to everyone.
S parent
How can you be in favor of diversity, but want students to stay in their geozoned schools to achieve it? Not to mention that if you're the one Native Hawaiian/Other Pacific Islander student at Ballard or one of the two Native American students at RB, these considerations of "diversity" probably didn't even consider your perspective.
When every other student at your school is a different race from you, that's not exactly diversity from your perspective, is it? I think there's something off in Director Geary's thinking that one lone student should "bring" diversity to a school even if this results in a poorer outcome for that student. Wouldn't you want to have a second (or third or more) Native American or Native Hawaiian student in class with you for some of the discussions that go on in AP US History class?
Improving outcomes for individual students should trump one-size-fits-all rules. Especially for students who are part of a small minority group where there might only be one or a handful of students like you in a school of 500 or even 1800 students.
veteran parent
Ding ding ding we have a winner for the dumbest comment of the year!
You might as well have said "don't think about elephants." Same effect. And so it goes.
same old
I don't want anyone forced to do anything but it takes more than words in the real world. My concern is based on decades of experience so sorry if I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for change in this district. And, just because some schools have some staff that are doing the work; good for your child and your school. It's not the norm.
Bravo, Choice; I'll probably send your comment to the Board.
I agree with Theo on this:
"Should the school district become the holder, teacher, and auditor of a culture? No, it should not. That is the place of the community itself to teach in its own time and place."
But, black culture IS American culture (rap and hip hop dominate American music). Native American culture IS American culture (it's the culture of the Americas before they were "America"). Native Americans - Navajos - helped us win WWII because the Nazis couldn't break the "code" which was Navajo language.
But I'm not so concerned with culture as I am with history. A snail's pace on this work just won't work. Piecemeal efforts won't work.
"If SPS is going to offer specialized programs, they need to stand behind them and replicate the successes in other schools. Instead, they retreat and look mediocre to everyone."
Yup. And they never learn from their mistakes.
I was asked to speak at a local university about charters and I found that the issue of segregation in charters - which is much higher than many traditional districts - was of great interest. I'll do a thread on that talk and the research I did before I gave it. What I learned was eye-opening.
I'll leave you with this story from KUOW about one Native American student and the experience for their family. Consider how you would deal with these issues before you say, let's all be one melting pot.
http://kuow.org/post/conflicting-educations-sam-schimmel
It is kind of amazing to me that given how deeply embedded the concept of closing the opportunity gaps is in the plan, how little time the board actually spends on it. If a native, african american or any other school has a strong foundation in data/evidence in making a significant (i.e. worth the cost/time etc) difference in closing the gaps, we should examine it. Otherwise, shouldn't we focus on making sure that set of kids gets to standards/graduate?
The real reason this district doesn't make any progress is because what is in the strategic plan is super hard and requires focus. What the district tends to do is get highly distracted by "progressive" pet causes and spend inordinate amounts of time on those. The politicization of our schools is amazing. some examples:
HCC - increasing "diversity" in these programs would likely have zero effect on closing the gap, as would eliminating the programs entirely. Any student that would be able to do the HCC work would likely be able to pass standards tests.
Identity security - is there actual evidence that suggests this is an issue? What is the data?
Diversity - Commenters here are misrepresenting the quoted article where if they suggest that everybody does better academically in diverse schools. The article doesn't say that - it says test scores won't be any lower. A real, but ignored implication of the same article is that by pushing so many engaged families/students out of public into private, it is likely having a statistically negative impact on minority test scores.
This sums it up right here:
"Rene and Jeremy would meet with school administrators. Some teachers and counselors suggested Sam had a learning disability or a behavioral disorder. His parents entertained that possibility but explained that Sam was growing up in a different environment than his peers. The family still spent summers in Gambell [on an island in the Bering Strait]. No one else at the school was from a subsistence hunting culture. Might it make sense that Sam would learn differently from most other students?"
Sam sounds like an amazing young man who's really learned to be a strong self-advocate. It is not fair of a school system to ask this kind of self-advocacy of an elementary school student, though. Skills like that take time and nurturing to develop. Oh, Seattle, we can do so much better for NA students.
Like assigning seats or groupings within a class so they are intentionally separated even within a class...but I digress.
HC is a service, not a program.
Semantics, isn't it? SPS has gone back and forth...The WAC refers to "Highly Capable Service Program." Each district shall submit an annual plan for the district's highly capable program...
http://www.k12.wa.us/HighlyCapable/default.aspx
I also note that if you do a search on OSPI's page for "highly capable" you get 11,200 results. A search for "native american" gets you 20 hits. Hmmm.
If you read the state law, it is clearly about delivering services, not delivering a "program."
Of course, SPS calls HCC a "program" because that's what it is in SPS. When they are pretending to be following the spirit of the law, they call their one-size-fits-all program "services."
Lohman was talking about a gifted "program" as a singular model and not a set of delivery services, which is why his research about models is irrelevant in the context of following state law for HC services.
EUer
Saying that either SpEd or HC, by law, is a defined "program" for which students must meet the definition of the program, rather than a service that meets the needs of the identified student is clearly uninformed.
EU
oh and again i see hcc as i would see a nac deaf/hh-c and etc. as long as they are choosing them.
hcc is not segregation as it is choice. desegregation was blacks choosing to go to white only schools. choice is what defines that. if no blacks choose to go to those schools they would still be segregated.
look at washington's gerrymandered attendance area. it is to make a show of mostly white hcc and majority black scholars. that didn't need to have that happen. they didn't need to have lake view households drive past wms to go to meany. also those whites are being bused to meany when they could have walked to wms. so we are losing money. that is michael tolley who brought us that and is also supporting the efforts of the anti hcc movement.
more choice, less demonizing. that should be this districts mission statement.
no caps
fwiw, likes to say things with the full force of their knowledge but they don't understand the basics.
hc is whatever sup nyland says it is. for sps it is 98 iq and 95/95 achievement percentile. i would say that is pretty flipping amazing. having had kids like that i know it is pretty flipping amazing. frustrating. minute by minute challenging. add learning disability or adhd and ok forget your weekend plans forever. that said that 'norm' is coming from larry. he could change it and add more or less kids. see altf 3 folks. does ospi care if it changes? hell no. heat your jets at larry and his 6 predecessors with your concerns. but all the racial tension started with michael tolley's reign imho.
now back to the topic stated; the native american focus school which i support, as it is by choice for both na kids and potentially others who would join it, i strongly disagree with jill geary. this could certainly work. just like li schools. why not? also i find the argument that they will have to pull none tribal affiliated hispanics out troubling. still indigenous people right? just another 'norm' i guess. hope to see fwiw understand what being consistent is and have her group steal board time to insure that indigenous peoples reagardless of the island or continent they are from could have access to such a program.
no caps
In Special Education, which HCC is often compared to because of the needs that HCC-identified students might have, the law REQUIRES that a student be placed in the Least Restrictive Environment (LRE) because the belief is that students should, where possible, NOT be singled out and placed in separate classrooms ("cohorts")
If you are going to compare HCC to SpEd, then each student who does well on the Cogat test would then be given an Individual Education Plan - IEP - and be placed in gen-ed classrooms wherever possible, reserving pull-outs or separate classrooms ONLY for instance where they absolutely necessary.
This is one aspect of HCC that I don't get - that somehow taking some IQ tests tells us that the whole kid is this thing, is "HCC" generally, when no, they're...kids. Like any other.
Granted, services for a student who is, oh, three levels above "the average" in one particular skill or content might need to be pulled out for attention regarding THAT skill or content, and often that might not be available, but shouldn't the idea be that all students should be together, with their age groups, not singled out and pushed into a separate group? This is what LRE intentionally aims to avoid, because its stigmatizing and often SpEd students have been shoved out of the mainstream and into back rooms.
Work on providing services where necessary, but the ideal should be that ALL students are mainstreamed where possible.
Just caught this, River. Very poor choice of words.
Highly capable services are not special education services in this state as evidenced by the lack of funding for services and lack of LRE and IEP requirements.
The LRE for most highly capable students is a self-contained classroom because that provides the most academic benefit and does so without limiting access to non-disabled peers. For these students, access to the on-grade level curriculum is not beneficial.
Fairmount Parent
Back to the Future
Licton Springs is an option school. An option is not forced. Presumably any NA focused school (K8, K12 or a high school) would be an option and would welcome non-NA student as well. The HC schools are option schools. Families can choose to stay at their neighborhood school instead. The goal should be optimizing outcomes for students, both socioemotional and academic outcomes. Optimal outcomes should be more important than the misguided belief that if we just force everyone to stay in their neighborhood, all disparities will evaporate.
LMFAO
What if some people want a deaf/HOH focused school? What if a group want a Somali-focused school? What if black student in the north end want an African-American focused school to complement the AA male efforts? What if HC students want their own schools (not just Cascadia, which happened for capacity reasons)? What if student athletes want their own school with a schedule that better matches their game times and travel do they don't have to miss so much time?
Should decisions be based on politics, history, demographics, academic research, practicality, other?
Not convinced
Yes, actually, LRE does happen. Maybe not in all instances and in all places, but I know many educators who work hard to ensure that where possible.
yuri
Blaming it on "income" is a joke, especially when compared to the outsized showing of so many Asian students on the eastside who are often children of immigrants.
"sleeper", who has claimed to be a lawyer and former NMSF recipient on this blog, used that excuse recently: NMSF in SPS is lower because of income of HCC!!!!
Blaming it on the "poor HCC curriculum," when HCC is comprised of mostly children of highly educated parents who are in self-contained, homogeneous classrooms for the entirety of their elementary schooling ("the cohort")--getting "two years ahead" (or so they claim when offerings of AP classes at their grade level aren't enough).
The proof is in the pudding...
"Isn't it rich?" to quote Stephen Sondheim...
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/education/27-from-bellevues-interlake-high-among-this-years-national-merit-semifinalists/
DeletEUd
-sleeper