Friday Open Thread
I don't know about you but I woke up to some snow on the ground. I did check SPS Communications Twitter feed but they have nothing about transportation so it's fine, I guess.
King County Executive Dow Constantine ordered that under 18 year old youth currently being held at the Regional Justice Center in Kent be released to the Seattle Youth Services Center. Those kids had been in solitary for up to 22 hours a day (in order to protect them from the adult inmates) and had 10 minute of face-to-face interaction with a teacher. This after a lawsuit was filed on behalf of those youth.
Bellevue School District is seeing an uptick in suicide interventions in their schools. From the Bellevue Reporter:
During the first month of this school year, the Bellevue School District reported 56 student suicide intervention plans, nine student hospitalizations and one death by suicide.
Lots of talk about STEM and here's an interesting article from the New York Times about how it's really computer science jobs that seem to be the driver.
On Saturday, Directors Harris and Burke are having a joint meeting on Career and Technical Education (CTE) at the Capitol Hill Library from 4-5:30 pm.
King County Executive Dow Constantine ordered that under 18 year old youth currently being held at the Regional Justice Center in Kent be released to the Seattle Youth Services Center. Those kids had been in solitary for up to 22 hours a day (in order to protect them from the adult inmates) and had 10 minute of face-to-face interaction with a teacher. This after a lawsuit was filed on behalf of those youth.
Bellevue School District is seeing an uptick in suicide interventions in their schools. From the Bellevue Reporter:
During the first month of this school year, the Bellevue School District reported 56 student suicide intervention plans, nine student hospitalizations and one death by suicide.
“It’s more than half what we did in 2015-16 and in 2016-17 – it’s probably 40 percent of what we did all year in 2016-17,” Bellevue School District’s Supervisor of Counseling Deborah Kraft said, noting that those numbers are “pretty high.”I note that one Bellevue school official says that the use of the socio-emotional curriculum, RULER, seems to be helping.
Kraft said she thinks a reason for the rise is that the district is doing a better of job of convincing students it’s good to tell a counselor or teacher when they’re having suicidal thoughts and, in turn, more students are opening up.
Lots of talk about STEM and here's an interesting article from the New York Times about how it's really computer science jobs that seem to be the driver.
Oh geez, looks like former head of the College of Education (and Mr. TFA), Tom Stritikus, may be in the running for yet another local university post. He's gone from UW to the Gates Foundation and now is looking for yet another job. This is just since 2010. That TFA for you.Much of the public enthusiasm for STEM education rests on the assumption that these fields are rich in job opportunity. Some are, some aren’t. STEM is an expansive category, spanning many disciplines and occupations, from software engineers and data scientists to geologists, astronomers and physicists.But he believes that STEM advocates, often executives and lobbyists for technology companies, do a disservice when they raise the alarm that America is facing a worrying shortfall of STEM workers, based on shortages in a relative handful of fast-growing fields like data analytics, artificial intelligence, cloud computing and computer security.
“There is a huge divide between the computing technology roles and the traditional sciences,” said Andrew Chamberlain, Glassdoor’s chief economist.“When it gets generalized to all of STEM, it’s misleading,” said Mr. Teitelbaum, a senior research associate in the Labor and Worklife Program at Harvard Law School. “We’re misleading a lot of young people.”
On Saturday, Directors Harris and Burke are having a joint meeting on Career and Technical Education (CTE) at the Capitol Hill Library from 4-5:30 pm.
Directors Burke and Harris are co-hosting a series of round table discussions with SPS educators. This November public meeting will be focused on Career and Technical Education. We enthusiastically invite our practitioners to share their success stories and ideas for improvement as we work to expand and align our CTE courses with future career opportunities.What's on your mind?
Comments
wondering
we all know the cohort of HC kids will be much thinner.
This will likely mean the kids are taking AP classes with kids 2 years older. The amount of same age peers (coming from HC cohort) will vary according to school. In some schools HC kids might find themselves surrounded by older kids for most of their classes.
In some schools, there will likely be issues with HC competing for classes with graduating seniors. Anyone else see this as a potential issue?
-L
Fairmount Parent
I'll add that some of those sophomores are still my close friends and have become rock star adults with very successful careers (wealthy orthodontist and a research engineer) so it didn't seem to hold them back in college or life not taking geometry as 8th or 9th graders....
I now stink at math.
Perspective
We know a kid who skipped and is a young HC kid working 3 years ahead in math (so really 4 years!). That parent has concerns about a 13 year old taking classes with 18 year olds.
Thanks Mel, I will read your notes. Yes, it seems they will be ensuring there is no same age peer group. This is a big difference parents should be aware, as IBX and Garfield historically had a large same age peer group.
L
Whitman Fam.
R
This is happening with IBX as the cohort gets split within the school - some students follow the IBX pathway, but more are being encouraged to follow a more traditional IB pathway. If 40 students need a post IB English class, are they going to offer two classes of advanced 12th grade English? No. Classes need to be run as full as possible. They might offer one class and suggest the other students do Running Start, online classes, or ? What happens when that IBX cohort is less than 30 students? They have little assurance they will have a full schedule of core classes come senior year.
If Garfield and Ingraham are unable to offer HC cohorts core classes senior year, with only two HC sites, how is this going to play out when there are 4 more pathway sites? This is why SPS has operated with the cohort model in high school, and minimized the number of HC sites. It's the best guarantee that students can be served within budget constraints. The "new" high school model being proposed will leave many students without options for senior year. Students should not be forced into Running Start.
Don't be lulled into thinking the proposed 5 pathway (6 if IHS is included) model will adequately serve students.
-forewarned
Sure, but if each principal is making the decision about these course, then that has to be clarified by senior staff. Either it's a policy abided by all or then the policy changes.
Can you please share these concerns widely? For example, I am wondering if they would even run a Calc BC class with 15 or 20 students?
At Ingraham Mr Rice mentioned they have put 40 kids into an AP class if they have 10 over 30. So I guess one class instead of two sections of 20.
The HCC advisory board made a recommendation. Why was there recommendation not shared at the operations meeting yesterday? Is it to be shared Nov 15th?
R
Yes and it sounds like at least at Ballard and Ingraham this is not followed in practice. At Ballard & Ingraham they are unaware of this policy. I was repeating what someone else stated after writing advanced learning when their student had an issue.
R
http://www.psasadler.org/calendar.pdf
-NP
Movin' Along
-NP
Newbie SPS parent here with a question about PTA funds. My child started kindergarten in SPS this year. Seeing the breakdown of how the school's PTA spends the money that parents donate raised some eyebrows for me. The PTA uses much of the funds to pay for f/t school counselor and music teacher. I found it strange that PTA funds are being used to pay for school staff, especially ones as crucial as school counselor and music teacher. Is this the norm in SPS? What happens to the schools in the district that don't have enough PTA funding--do they lose out on staff too? How is this equitable? --OR--is this just a temporary band-aid fix to deal with budget shortfalls? And if temporary, what does that mean? One year? 2 years? 5? Growing up in a smaller, suburban school district where PTA funds are explicitly *NOT* to be used for staff salary, I find this really strange. Shouldn't PTA funds mainly be used for things like school events, field trips, class parties, supplies, extra resources, etc? Rather than basic fundamental necessary staff positions?
--SPS Newbie
HF
Orange Marshmallows
BLTer
If we all took a few moments to be considerate with one another on this blog, we might actually start solving problems. I no longer have a K–12-age child, but I still care about all children and Seattle public schools, so I pay attention. I hate reading posts that devolve into name-calling, race-baiting, and other forms of denigration.
Seattle Public Schools are a mess and for many of the same reasons that much of our government institutions are a mess. We need to find common ground and come together. Yeah, I'm an optimist, see the half-full glass, I still have some hope that people are inherently good. Flame me if that makes you feel better, but I'd like to see us at least try to work together.
Solvay Girl
@ Orange Marshmallows, Just to be extra clear, I did not comment that there was not enough money for equity on the other thread. My point is that a true equity initiative always involves MORE resources. There is a profound need for MORE gifted education options and the creation of more options and broader identification will require resources. I would love to SPS to learn something from Rainier Scholars and try to build a new program that directly targets underserved communities with focused resources.
I strongly object to initiatives that don't require ANY new resources, being labeled as done in the name of equity. The entire notion that making five HCC pathways is being done to address equity in gifted education is pure optics and zero substance.
I also object to things that are done for sake of politics, that hurt students and eduction. The closures were pure politics and did tremendous damage to students district wide.
This is not correct. While highly impacted schools receive more money, it does not begin to cover the extra needs they have--students in trauma, math and reading intervention, etc.
There are lesser impacted schools that are not able to raise extensive PTA funds.
Neighboring districts no longer allow PTAs to fund positions because of the injustice of it.
About Time
SPS no longer has a choice. They have been mandated to find underserved students for HC: http://www.k12.wa.us/BulletinsMemos/Bulletins2017/B064-17.pdf
It's not going to be for a "Rainier Scholars" type of program, but for the actual HCC program that they have been excluded from all along.
About Time
It's actually the "opinion" of the state of WA.
By mandating that districts find underserved students who haven't yet been identified, the logic ensues that they had previously been excluded.
About Time
BLTer
Here's a perspective from a white man with two lack daughters that explains to the we're over racism crowd just how racism continues its pernicious damage to and corruption of society.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/11/03/im-the-descendant-of-a-founding-father-and-i-have-two-black-daughters-and-i-am-racist/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_with_top_mostshared_1_na&utm_term=.79df06b72e73
maelstrom
SPS Newbie
In lots and lots and lots of other senses, there are correlations between race and where students live, family income, parental educational attainment, intergenerational wealth, career choice, likelihood of qualifying for F/RL, ELL services, SPED services, likelihood of attending public school vs. private, SES, etc. But all of these things are not specific to HCC. Their effects are much broader.
I think the big driver behind STEM is ... vendor dollars.
It is another way to get
k-12 districts to feel inspired to buy more hardware and software.
The use of H1B visas has apparently solved the STEM labor shortage in most areas.
Wages for many STEM fields have been flat for years.
The high dollar tech jobs of today and the future
may require a solid academic high school foundation
coupled with a STEM centered university degree.
Vendors see k-12 as a huge revenue opportunity.
-- Dan Dempsey
https://www.nagc.org/resources-publications/resources/timely-topics/ensuring-diverse-learner-participation-gifted-0
The Supreme Court has ordered schools to use FRL as a first remedy in dealing with racial discrepancies in education for historically underserved students based on race, as does the mandate from WA State:
http://www.k12.wa.us/BulletinsMemos/Bulletins2017/B064-17.pdf
Blaming the lack of historically underserved students in HCC on societal factors is no longer an option. SPS identifying criterion does not follow best practices and research in identifying these students.
SPS will need to change their identifying protocol so that it is no longer biased against underserved students, starting with cut-off scores that are not validly normed.
About Time
Orange Marshmallows, don't be so grumpy. SPS Newbie, don't you worry, nobody is using the "same signature" as you. And to SPS Newbie and Newbie Mom, a very warm welcome for you both to what is actually a very kind and caring and informative blog community of parents and others who all do care deeply about the Seattle public schools and the education of our children.
Wondering if you really believe the nonsense you post here.
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/16/558087458/studies-skewed-by-focus-on-well-off-educated-brains?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=2043
Time’s Up
Ok. So you took my clarification about a misquote on another thread, to deliberately twist my words. So Let's just break this down.
My statement is that I am for identifying historically underserved gifted students and then serving those student appropriately and with resources. The memo focuses on identification and reporting. I like to focus on actually doing the hard work.
I mention that I would love for SPS to learn from Rainier Scholars. To be extra clear, equity requires resources. Rainier Scholars delivers extra resources. HCC does not get extra resources.
To just spell this out, I am strongly opposed to this change that HCC in high school is no longer a cohort but instead the delivery model for HCC in High School will be AP courses. I am opposed to this because this is a zero cost solution that will empower SPS to check off the identification box. This may be intentional or unintentional, I can't address that. But I can address the consequences to reporting because of this change.
As 90% of students who take AP coursework are NOT HCC students. AP courses are available to every student in the district AND at some schools 100% of students take at least one AP course. For example, AP Human Geography is 10th grade Social Studies at Roosevelt.
If SPS changes the definition of gifted services in high school to AP coursework on the annual gifted services report, then SPS will have completely satisfied the mandate "on paper" to identify more historically underserved students.
I object to this because I dislike political optics delivered as equity solutions. This change in high school delivery has profound consequences all across the district. This change was not vetted by the community and does nothing to help historically underserved students.
and how STEM dollars intertwine...
How Silicon Valley Plans to Conquer the Classroom
The School grounds provide for hardware and software a market expected to reach $21 Billion by 2020.
-- Dan Dempsey
I thought you and others argued previously that HCC was not a cohort, that APP classes were open to everyone and that was OK. Why is it no longer OK?
-NP
-NP
Are there ways this number could be calculated and be true? I suppose if you count all students that took at least 1 AP class, then yes, this number probably makes sense.
But how about if we instead look at the number of students that look the most advanced AP math and science classes? Are we really to believe that only 10% of the students in those classes are HCC? It's not that these classes aren't open to everyone, it is just that it is hard to believe that non-HCC students would meet the necessary prerequisites to qualify.
The district has a long history of twisting numbers to its own purposes. If it smells like a lie, it perhaps it is.
I can't and don't speak for other, so please don't lump my comments into some monolithic conversation.
To spell this out, the definition of gifted services at high school on the paperwork that SPS sends to Olympia, in order to justify the extra money that Olympia sends to SPS for gifted services, defines high school services as a "cohort." That is the paperwork definition and I object to the change in the paperwork definition, because this will create the optics that identification of underserved students has been done.
There are many people on this blog with younger kids, that don't have direct experience with high school. As such, it is reasonable that many people would think that cohort means the same things in all grade bands. That is not the case. I suspect that is the underlying reason for your lumped argument, because AP classes are open to everyone. There is NO self-contained aspect in high school.
High school is different from K-8 in many ways, including the funding and scheduling mechanism. Cohort at elementary means they act as a cohort. Cohort at middle school means a cohort for LA/SS and science. Cohort at high school has NOTHING to do with the schedule.
At high school, the cohort simply means that there is a density of students, to drive advanced classes on the master schedule.
Mostly true, but it's not only to ensure critical mass for advanced offerings. It also provides a cohort effect of sorts--not a cohort that sticks together for all/most core classes, but a cohort in that you're more likely to find other students with whom you relate. It's a social-emotional health component. For example, a 10th grader taking AP Calculus in a class full of non-HCC seniors is likely to feel more isolated and out-of-place than if there were other HCC 10th and 11th graders also in the class.
DisAPP
I think it falls into the "lies, damn lies, and statistics" category. It may be very well true that 90% of students who took AP coursework were not HCC students, meaning not in the cohort at Garfield taking AP classes? Does HCC mean in the cohort, vs identified and not in the cohort? What about students in IBX/IB? What percent of HC identified students enrolled at Ingraham, Ballard, or Roosevelt? Kind of disingenuous to leave out IB, isn't it?
I don't disbelieve the statistic, but think it is purposely not providing the entire picture.
As suggested above, there are probably many students taking one or two AP classes. What needs to be included in the statistics is how many unique AP and IB courses are offered at each high school, and for each course, what percent are taken by HC vs non HC. It would provide a better picture what courses might be considered baseline offerings at a comprehensive high school and what courses are considered baseline offerings for HCC (what's offered at Garfield that's not offered elsewhere? What IB courses are offered at Ingraham vs other IB schools?). Where is the overlap and would the number of HC sites suggested in the latest proposal be able to provide those additional offerings? I think we know the answer: unlikely.
darn startistics
Readers, if you are told someone use has your moniker -pick a new one. It's wrong to try to confuse others or pretend you are another commenter.
Dam Startistics, you should ask the Board to ask for this info. It might be helpful.
--SPS Newbie
PTA is about enhancement and enrichment and funding staff salaries is not in that category (to me).
HP
AP LA 11th and 12th
AP Calc AB (5)
AP Calc BC (1)
AP Stats (3)
AP Env Sci (5)
AP Biology (3)
AP Chemistry (5)
AP Physics (2)
AP World History (11)
AP Amer Gov (2)
AP US Hist (4)
AP Japanese (2)
AP French (1)
AP Latin (1)
AP Spanish (2)
AP Macro (1)
AP Computer Science (2)
AP Studio Art (1)
If HCC was to split into 5 cohorts (+ Ingraham), any course with only 1 or 2 (or even 3) sections could be in jeopardy. Again, where is a detailed analysis by the district? For each course, what percentage of the students are HC vs non-HCC?
forewarned
HSsoon
Whether to pursue the testing is optional. But even that is suspect since the communication about it is so lame.
About Time
Time’s Up
"one thing that can be chosen from a set of POSSIBILITIES, or the freedom to make a choice"
When the possibility virtually doesn't exist--in this case because of biases and/or invalid scoring norms and/or lack of using multiple evidences--it takes the option out of optional.
Too bad concern about reaching the students who are being denied HC services in SPS isn't getting as much attention or energy here as word parsing.
History shows that the government or courts need to step in when systems don't do the right thing. We see that happening now with the WA state mandate about identifying underserved HC students.
About Time
all types
There have been some accounts here that the district has changed scoring norms for some populations.
However, it's too little (whatever it is) because the demographics remain totally skewed.
About time
All types
Hard to see how any amount of commenting on this blog will move the dial on how SPS selects students for HCC. The increase in funding and threats of lawsuits are sooner likely to do that.
NCLB included no accountability for the achievement of advanced students. This resulted particularly in disadvantaged students not having sufficient access to gifted education services and other advanced opportunities. NCLB also did not address achievement gaps at the advanced level between populations of students. And it didn't provide teachers training in identifying the indicators of giftedness or having effective strategies for how to respond and support those students.
The Every Student Succeeds Act should help. Thanks to it:
* State and local report cards must now report on student achievement at the advanced level, disaggregated by subgroups
* Title I funds can be used to identify and serve low-income gifted and talented students
* State plans for use of federal Title II professional development funds must address how the state will enable teachers to identify gifted and talented students and provide instruction based on their needs.
* Districts receiving Title II funds must provide training to address the learning of gifted and talented students and may provide training to support the identification of gifted students, including high-ability students who have not been formally identified as gifted.
Seattle's HCC program as it stands today truly is an entirely optional system. True, the district has started screening second graders at title one schools. But that definitely leaves a lot of students in the district who are not being screened. The only way any of those other students get screened is for someone to refer them. Lord knows why a child who needs faster or harder schoolwork should need multiple adults to jump through multiple hoops on specific, cryptically communicated, dates to get the child the schoolwork the child needs.
Before high school in Seattle, HCC is just acceleration, and there's really no reason why any school couldn't just skip a student who needs acceleration ahead a grade or two. There is NO reason for this. And yet staff and teachers fight tooth and nail against this.
Hopefully ESSA will help. And the state funding for fairer identification. I have my doubts about comments on this blog, though.