Question of the Day - Do You Think Seattle Schools Should Close Schools?

Update 2:

I typed too quickly and saw my error in the article about the closure list in the Seattle Times. 

Given that state law requires a hearing at every school site that’s slated to close, it would be a tight schedule to make the December vote if the list is unveiled in September.

That's right; the public hearing for each school has to happen BEFORE the school is voted on. So apparently, the Superintendent will present a preliminary list in - what? - September, then the public hearings, then the vote in December. 

end of update

Update: it appears that the Superintendent will NOT be submitting a plan or list for closing schools at Wednesday night's Board meeting. He has a message with several topics in it - including safety - but here's what he says on "well-resourced schools" (bold mine):

Board Meeting Update

While the rescheduled meeting will occur on June 26, this Regular School Board Meeting will not include a proposed “school closure list.”

Instead, the presentation will focus on the criteria guiding our decisions, such as budget and enrollment data, building condition assessments, program considerations, and community input.

We’ve heard from our community. Families and staff want to understand our planning process and react to proposals. The end of the school year and summer is not an ideal time for community engagement. Over the summer, my team will work hard to evaluate and consider the feedback we have heard and refine the plan that will be presented to our board.

Reports will resume with our School Board and community in September. Our board will be voting on the well-resourced schools plan before winter break in December 2024.

Community Input

We have received strong participation and valuable feedback during our community meetings. Our community cares deeply about our schools.

It is crucial to ensure any steps we take are in the best interest of our students and families. Therefore, we will take more time this summer to thoroughly consider your input before announcing school consolidations.

Budget Considerations

We are working to stabilize our district amid declining enrollment. As SPS does every year, we are proposing a balanced budget to our board for approval for the next school year.

The 2024-25 Budget includes forecasting for school consolidations to begin in the 2025-26 school year.

This recommendation will help us achieve savings over time rather than immediately. It is essential to start to align our resources to our values. We will also continue to strongly advocate with the legislature to fully fund education.

Please know, however, there will be no vote on school consolidations during the June 26 Regular School Board Meeting.

Commitment to Thoughtful Decision-Making

We recognize that the process of rightsizing our school buildings with our student enrollment is complex. Our focus is on creating stable, vibrant, and well-resourced schools that reflect the diversity and needs of our community.

We will involve external experts to review our work and suggest improvements and innovations. This will help ensure our plans are solid and will improve outcomes for students.

This timeline will enable detailed discussions about our school system, incorporating community input and expertise. We endeavor to build trust and create schools that reflect our shared values and vision.

Thank you for your understanding, patience, and ongoing support. Together, we will overcome these challenges and strive for a brighter future for all Seattle Public Schools students.

Thoughts:

- Glad the presentation will be about criteria because that will let us know if they are going to do this strictly on equal assessment or bring in their "value" assessment for "those students furthest from educational justice." 

- The end of the school year/summer not a good time you say?

- Savings over time, you say? Could that be the counterargument to "closing schools won't close the budget gap." 

- If the final list vote is in December, they will have to get to those legally required public meetings for each named school quickly in 2025. 

- "External experts? Are they paying for consultants now? Lordy. 

end of update

None? Some?

I got asked this question and was taken aback for a minute. Because, of course, my opinion doesn't matter but maybe yours does. 

My answer would be a loud NO.

First, it's not going to balance any budget. If it did by half, maybe I'd be persuaded. 

Second, the amount of work - planning, transportation changes, boundary changes, etc - is really going to be overwhelming. That's a direct cost to the district. I think if the district does close schools, they need to account for every single penny of doing so. 

Third, the amount of stress - administrators, teachers, parents, kids, district staff - is going to be very high and take a toll especially coming after COVID lockdown issues. That's a lot of stress for kids to take on.

However, the reality is there are some very small schools in old buildings. That, for me, should be the two criteria. That SPS has helped some schools shrink is moot at this point. 

(However, I'm still on that waitlist issue at Option Schools.) 

But that's not 20 schools. 

Problem is, that even if you closed 10, they would not be evenly spread throughout the district and there would be cries of unfairness if one region took it on the chin more than another. 

Plus, the district already signaled their hand years ago by creating these capital projects at Montlake, John Rogers, Viewlands and Alki Elementary. Mega elementaries are being created and there's no way the district is going back on that. But still, that would just be four schools to close. 

Maybe the district should consider a go-slow approach, given all the work and heartache closing schools entails.

Comments

Anonymous said…
Welp, looks like SPS is kicking the decision down the road, if any - per the email from a few minutes ago. I would LOVE if this non-decision is *the*decision but dang if they don’t make this process needlessly painful. Who would run TOWARDS such a dysfunctional district if they had a choice? How much energy have the invested families spent on tracking this?

Eye Roll
Ambivalent said…
I think it’s pretty obvious that a handful of specific schools should be closed and consolidated. The small neighborhood ones in old buildings close to the brand new ones. We know which those are (it’s the ones at the top of everyone’s lists when they discuss this). start with those, see how it goes, learn from that experience, and then roll out the rest of the plan later in a smart way based on gained experience.
Anonymous said…
I don't think we can really say that the number of schools we currently have is the exact perfect number of schools and should be set in stone for all eternity. Enrollment hasn't changed enough that there seems to be any good justification to close 20 schools all at once right now, but occasionally adjusting the number of schools up or down a bit to better fit current enrollment patterns in different neighborhoods seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do in general.

A good time to look at this is when a building is nearing the end of its useful life and needs to be significantly renovated or replaced if the school is to stay open. This seems to happen after a few decades for every school building. If at that time this school and a few of the neighboring schools are all underenrolled, I don't think it's the worst idea to consider closing the one aging building and redistributing its students to other nearby schools. You save the capital expense of constructing a new building and the remaining buildings are now used more efficiently. These are good things!

Moving kids around halfway through their elementary career is disruptive, but so is making everyone go to a completely new school in 6th and 9th grade. In the case of the need to renovate a building the standard practice seems to be moving the whole school community to a temporary building halfway across town for a year while the construction happens on their permanent home, and that's disruptive too! So sometimes these things can't be helped.

- Eric
Jessica said…
I strongly encourage all parents visit the office of washing state auditors website and pull reports for Seattle school districts. Limit your search to reports and findings to learn more about where the money is going.
Anonymous said…
This is district is run by clowns. I cannot take this fiscal crisis seriously if the district never actually makes a concrete recommendation or decision.

Where are the state powerbrokers/auditors and teachers union in all of this? I feel like family input is mostly window dressing, and the real power is with these back room decision makers.

Bozo
"Moving kids around halfway through their elementary career is disruptive, but so is making everyone go to a completely new school in 6th and 9th grade"

Eric, a bit disingenuous. Closing down a student's school is NOT the same as moving to a new school because of a grade change.

Someone else had a comment for this post that I approved but it went somewhere just not here. Please send it in again.

I did a request for the list of community groups/rep who the Board engaged with in school year 2023-2024. I can guess a few but I'd like to know for sure. There should be no mystery about this but I'm taking bets on how long it will take to get that list. I'm guessing 4 months.

For sure:
- SCPTSA
- Alliance for Education
- NAACP
- SE Seattle Education Coalition
- not sure if he's in this category but Mayor Bruce Harrell
- El Centro de la Raza
- Asian Americans/Pacific Islanders
Anonymous said…
"Eric, a bit disingenuous. Closing down a student's school is NOT the same as moving to a new school because of a grade change."

Not the same, no, but also not all that much different.

A kid moving from elementary to middle school is going to have to learn to navigate a different building with a different administration and different expectations and different social circles, but with quite a few familiar classmates from their previous school. Academically they'll be taught things one grade level higher than the previous year. The student and family will need to adjust to a different pickup/dropoff routine.

A kid switching elementary schools after 3rd grade because their building closed and the population was split between a couple of neighboring elementary schools is going to go through much the same process. They'll need to learn to survive and thrive in a different building, with different administration, different social circles, and many familiar classmates.

The main practical difference I see is that most kids go through this type of transition going into 6th grade. It's common and expected. Fewer do it going into 4th grade.

There's certainly an emotional component to seeing a place you spent a lot of time be shut down or changed in a negative way. I think we've all been through that at one point or another. It's sad when that happens, and it's also part of life.

Closing schools isn't something that should be done willy-nilly. I certainly haven't seen evidence that closing 20 schools is the best path forward for the long-term success of the school district. But if you picked out a small handful of the most run-down under-enrolled buildings and made a case for closing them instead of doing a multi-million rebuild project at each, I could buy the case for that.

- Eric
Eric, you and I will have to agree to disagree because you are very "oh well" about kids and their feelings.
Patrick said…
It's hard to take the District seriously when they haven't made a real case for closing schools. They aren't showing us the math. That means either they haven't done the math (bad), or they have done the math but it doesn't support the conclusion they wanted (worse).

Where's the money savings? Same number of students means about the same number of teachers will be needed and probably about the same number of school administrators. Maybe they save one principal and one secretary for each closed school. That's a drop in the bucket for the District's problems. Instead of distracting themselves with closures, they should be looking at ways to save more significant amounts of money - or fix their relationship with the legislature.

Seattle's planners in the 1930s-1950s were very farsighted when they put schools within easy walking distance of almost all of Seattle. Walking to schools promotes health, helps the kids be fully awake by the time class starts, helps the parents engage with school functions in the evenings. Has the District even calculated how many more students would need busing with the schools closed? Or, just for information, how many would end up being driven by parents every day?

The last time the District closed schools was a disaster. The ink was scarely dry on the closures when they realized their demographic projections were all wrong, and they needed to be opening schools, quickly, not closing them. Are the projections any better now?

And that brings me to what happens to the closed buildings. The projections are so unreliable that we might need the schools again on only a year's notice. That means not selling them, and no long-term leases. Is the District going to make any money at all under terms like that? And if they're vacant, has the math they're not showing us considered paying for night watchmen so that thieves don't end up stealing the wiring and pipes like last time?

I'm not a fan of giant elementary schools in general. Smaller schools are more welcoming to each student and easier to make friends in.

Patrick (Yay, my kid survived 13 years of SPS and is almost done with college! Still very grateful to Ms. Nelson, Ms. Scofield, and the other great teachers)

chunga said…
I agree with your assessment at the end of this post Melissa. I'd add that talking about closing schools is very short-sighted if we look at longer terms trends of the city and what kind of public school system we want and need. The city is very likely going to continue growing and many long time low-density neighborhoods will start bearing some of that growth (due to state zoning changes and because this is needed for climate and equity). Neighborhood schools will continue to be hugely important as community hubs and reducing need to shuttle kids longer distances. We also know it's hugely expensive to re-open schools especially so if they're sold or repurposed - when, not if, demands change. This push to close schools reeks of an austerity mindset that will feed a viscous downwards cycle for the district and create openings for privatization efforts. The district should take this off the table and we should amp up pressure on WAleg to help address any funding issues.
Anonymous said…
SPS, can you include in your math as an alternative how much savings if you eliminate the “Executive Director of schools” positions?
Namely:
Dr Mercer (absent from district issues besides sitting on a panel for WRS and say nothing)
Dr McCarthy (MIA)
Katrina Hunt (Enabler. Won’t touch her pals even as they deeply hurt communities. Anitra Jones, Chanda Otis-I am looking at you)
Dr Davis Brown (No response from her regarding student safety post Ingraham murder)
Dr Chris Carter (Unable to support Pathfinder administration resulting in community outcry)
And also:
Dr Starosky (Nobody knows what he does besides collecting his paycheck)
Dr Pritchett (Climbed her way up to HR supreme bully. Covers up for sisters. Hunt, Otis, Jones - looking at you).
So many doctors in such sick district and we are not even close to health.
So, by my calculations their salaries, those of their assistants and benefits, we can save close to 8 million dollars a year and avoid closing 8 schools (one million reduced expenses per school)
DO IT.

Miss Apatos
John Nowicki said…
Ladies and Gentlemen, allow me to run you through what is going to happen here. I have no inside info, etc...just a (IMO) good understanding of how weasely a set of ideologues they are. First, they already have a target list that isn't being changed. Instead, they are running out the clock to manufacture a fake rush.

September, as late as possible:
Jones and the Board will pull out the list they already have, closing almost all, in not all of the Option Schools, K-8, and Multilingual Schools. There may be a smattering of others like Sandpoint they can easily justify in upscale neighborhoods with minimal local students as cover. This will be presented as a win for equity, as the closures will spare neighborhood schools and least impact "those farthest from educational justice". That will be the party line going fwd. It will also be the real intent here, same as Covid was good cover for killing AL/HCC.

October - Rush job "meetings" at each target school. Equity activists will be quietly engaged to flood the room with "opportunity hoarder" pushback on angry parents. One meeting per school will actually have no impact at all. Maybe SPS will be smart enough to have a fallback list of a couple "saves" they can pretend to be compromising with. they will close those a year or two later.

November - "oopsie, out of time, have to vote, sowwwwy"

Hey Miss Apatos, nice to hear from you.

I very much agree with Miss Apatos' assessment of the EDs as I have heard similar things from multiple sources. As for Mike Starosky, apparently he doesn't oversee anyone anymore but I'm not sure what he's doing either.

Honestly, I'll bet if you did add up the salaries of the top tier of staff, you would get at least $4M. And, if they give Jones, a salary, then again, I don't consider them serious people.

John, you are not the first person to say this to me. However, I did hear from a valuable source that they really are trying to readjust where they are.

I absolutely believe there is a list but I don't think it will have many Option Schools on it. I think equity should be an outcome of closures but I think protecting any truly underenrolled school in a bad building is wrong.

But yes, it's a very fast timeline.
Anonymous said…
Regarding the waitlist issue at the option schools, here's some info on Thornton Creek. It seems like fears that the district is intentionally keeping enrollment lower than capacity there could be real, despite the long waitlist. https://myemail-api.constantcontact.com/Thornton-Creek-s-Future-needs-your-engagement-.html?soid=1102230246467&aid=pDyzTlxKTRM
-Maple Leaf
Anonymous said…
Just tried to add a comment but it didn't seem to work -- sending in some info on Thornton Creek and intentional underenrollment there: https://myemail-api.constantcontact.com/Thornton-Creek-s-Future-needs-your-engagement-.html -Maple Leaf
Another Name said…
Wowza! Miss Apatos weighs in on Melissa's blog.

I think the district should look at eliminated one professional development day each month. I think you will have some cost savings, there.
Anonymous said…
Another Name - Miss Apatos commented here, or some third party republished their comment wholesale from the Stranger and added their name. Either way, valuable ideas to consider.

https://www.thestranger.com/slog-am/2024/06/26/79574875/slog-am-sps-wont-yet-say-which-schools-are-closing-wa-performs-more-abortions-now-jamaal-bowman-loses-new-york-primary/comments/5

Careful Reader

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