Tuesday, July 31, 2007

An Interview With Dr. Goodloe-Johnson

This interview appeared on July 18th in the Seattle Medium. Of note, this section about special education:

"Submersing herself into the realities that exist for others is nothing new to Goodloe-Johnson. Upon graduating from high school she was torn between going to school for psychology and teaching so she decided to participate in a summer work experience program — where she stayed in a mental institution for a weekend as she pretended to be a non-verbal, wheelchair-bound patient whose hands were bandaged because she supposedly had a history of hurting herself.

“At that time they still had institutions for youth who were mentally challenged,” recalled Goodloe-Johnson. “No one knew that you (the students who participated in the program) weren’t supposed to be there except for the head nurse.”

The experience wasn’t pleasant for her at the time, but the impact that it would have on her life and life’s work help set the stage for where she is today, as it motivated her to become a teacher and specialize in special education.

“It was an experience that I will never forget,” she said. “It made me want to teach students with special needs because I was so distraught at how people who didn’t have the capacity were treated just because of their lack of ability to participate like the rest of us kids.” "

And about AP and rigor:
"Goodloe-Johnson is a proponent of a rigorous academic curriculum and feels that all students should be challenged to meet high academic standards, and that the educational standards that are in place for advanced academic programs like AP should be the standard level of academic excellence that all students should strive for.

“I believe that all kids benefit from a high quality rigorous curriculum,” said Goodloe-Johson.

“If a student took an AP course and got a “C” in it and that same student took just a regular English course and got an “A” in it, they would be smarter and better challenged with a “C” from the AP course,” she added as she commented about some of the community concerns that quality academic programs and resources are not available throughout the district. “Chief Sealth doesn’t have any AP classes. I think that’s inappropriate, and I think we need to work to fix that!” "

And this example of her to-the-point talk:

"In her mind, principals need to be held accountable — they need to be aware of their school data, they need to be aware of their school performance, and in turn teachers need to be held accountable for performance targets for their students.

“When I used to be a high school principal, I used to have teachers complain that well (Johnny) just doesn’t have the skills or he’s lazy,” she recalled. “I said I’ll tell you what. How about if I pay you for only the kids that you’re successful with, does that change your thinking about what you do in the classroom. Well, quite frankly it did.” "


Roy Smith said...

Chief Sealth doesn’t have any AP classes. I think that’s inappropriate, and I think we need to work to fix that!

Chief Sealth does now have IB. Is IB not considered academically rigorous the same way that AP is?

Jet City mom said...

Some people apparently don't believe that it is.

AP advocates contend that their program has the upper hand because its tests are widely recognized among U.S. universities.

At Georgetown University, freshmen can get credit if they score a 4 or 5 on an AP exam after a one-year course. But IB students can get credit there for doing well on their IB exams only after taking two-year IB courses.

"Most people in my chair will say that IB is wonderful. I am not one of those," said Charles Deacon, Georgetown's dean of undergraduate admissions. "The AP program has been in effect for a very long time. It's got a very rigorous curriculum design, and it covers the subject matter we want to see, and it's scored on a rigorous basis, whereas in IB, it's not quite as rigorous."

Anonymous said...

To Roy Smith: Why pick fault in what Gooloe says??? Why not flip your probing, be positive, and look at it from a different angle. She is technically correct. As of date Sealth has nothing to offer in the way of advanced learning. The school wasn't accredited until April 2007. They are trying to get an IB program up and running for this coming year or next.

Class of 75: People will debate anything. Some will like AP better, others will like IB better. If you looked at both sides, you would find that both have equally passionate . IB is a widely used, very rigorous curriculum, used all over the WORLD. Bellevue had 3 schools rated in the top 100 in the country, and they all have IB programs. Seattle only had Garfield on the list and it ranked at about 500? or so. Perhaps Brita Butler-Wall could comment on the IB program. I know her daughter is in the Ingraham program.

Let's please be positive. The negativity is overwhelming on this blog.

Anonymous said...

And by the way Garfield, ranking in the 500? or so of schools in the country, has no IB program. Only AP.

Roy Smith said...

I may have said some things could be viewed as negative on this blog, but I honestly didn't think that this particular comment was ... it was asking the question "Is IB considered comparable to AP in academic rigor, or not?" I don't know the answer, and I was hoping maybe I could find one here.

Why is asking honest questions considered equivalent to being critical?

Anonymous said...

You didn't ask, Roy.

You said that some peope don't believe that Ib is as rigorous as AP, and gave quotes and links to substantiate your comments. That suggests that in your research you find that people do not believe IB to be as rigorous as AP.

That's much more loaded than a simple question such as:

Is IB comparable to AP?

Anonymous said...

Sorry, last post was for Class of 75, not Roy Smith. My apology, Roy.

Anonymous said...

All I have to say is

GO DR. GOODLOE !!!!!!!!!!

She sounds fabulous, and is just what Seattle needed !!!!!!!

Melissa Westbrook said...

IB has been around since 1968 and AP since 1955 (although AP was originally only for kids in private schools). The basic difference is that IB is a program with a curriculum. It is available from 1-12 although 9-12 is what we have. AP offers individual classes that students can pick from. I'll write up a post with links.

Jet City mom said...

To the anon poster #! - I am well aware of IB- I have two nieces who pursued the IB program at Interlake high school in Bellevue, one who finished college a few years ago & one who is taking a year off after two years at the same college.
A very good college to be sure,but possibly because IB is not as well known as AP, the oldest was forced to attend her 6th choice after her preferred choices declined to admit her.

I also have several friends who have kids in the IB program at Ingraham. ( including one who proctored recent testing for IB- an interesting procedure)

While I brought the perspective of the admission counselor at Georgetown University to Roy’s attention & while that perspective was biased towards AP, is it unacceptable to increase the spread of information on this blog?

He raised a legitimate question- as to why the new supe may feel that AB & IB may not be equally rigorous.
Instead of shooting the messenger, I tried to answer the question.

I agree that AP can provide college credit with test scores of a 4 or 5 at some universities ( some universities even give credit with a 3)

I also realize that taking an AP course through the school is not required, and some students, for example, those who are home schooled, or who are enrolled in private schools that don't offer AP do take AP tests.

IB is more structured- it is a whole program, and afterwards you can apply for either the certificate or the diploma.

However, you are unlikely to get college credit in high school, if you are attending a U.S. university. It is a way to show that you are taking the most rigorous classes possible however to the colleges, especially if your high school doesn't offer AP.

Given the choice of having a child attend a high school with IB, which is a comprehensive program and in some schools students enrolled in IB remain separate from the bulk of the school, having a child attend a high school where many hoops must be gone through to attempt AP classes, or having them attend a high school where if they are up for the work, they can attempt AP, whether they take one AP class or three- I like the flexibility of taking AP when appropriate, rather than all or none.

Some of the "regular" classes my youngest has had at Garfield, are easily the equivalent of an AP class- they just didn't follow the AP structured curriculum.

While she may take advantage of placing out of college classes with the scores of her AP tests, the reason she is taking the classes, is to have the challenge.

I also have a question for Anon-
Bellevue, as far as I know- does have a combined AP/IB curriculum for gifted students at Interlake. I am unfamiliar with other Bellevue schools that have IB, it is usually a very expensive procedure, requiring extra staff/remodeling etc., but couldn't verify that other Bellevue schools offer IB, on the district website.

As far as the Newsweek rankings go, those are for students taking AP/IB courses, not students taking AP/IB tests, or for the scores they receive on those tests.
It also leaves out schools that may have a very rigorous curriculum but don't call their classes AP or IB


Charlie Mas said...

Wow! There is a lot to like here.

"she is adamant about two things - accountability and improving academic achievement"

I would love to see her bring these about.

"As it relates to eliminating the achievement gap that exists not only in Seattle but in school districts across the country Goodloe-Johnson has a recipe for success."

"When you have an achievement gap or you have students who come to school under-prepared you have to have a quality teacher in the classroom," she says. "Not a first-year teacher, not a teacher who is an average or a weak teacher, but a high quality teacher that knows how to teach the curriculum not just from a book, but how to really interact and connect with the students and teach the curriculum."

"In addition to quality instruction, Goodloe-Johnson believes that tutoring, after-school programs, summer school and pre-k programs are all ways to help close the achievement gaps that exist in public school education."

So this is what we can expect: an actual plan for closing the gap. For as long as that as been the District's number one stated goal, we have never had a plan for achieving it. Here, in a few words, she has described the elements of such a plan.

"Goodloe-Johnson is a proponent of a rigorous academic curriculum and feels that all students should be challenged to meet high academic standards, and that the educational standards that are in place for advanced academic programs like AP should be the standard level of academic excellence that all students should strive for."

This has got to be an element of the plan: setting and maintaining high academic expectations for all students. That's how they have been successful at Van Asselt and at Maple. That has been part of the mix at EVERY successful program.

Then, as if that talk about high expectations wasn't enough, she hits the other high scoring target as well: accountability.

"(From my experience) public education doesn’t have the mindset of accountability in product," she said."

"In her mind, principals need to be held accountable — they need to be aware of their school data, they need to be aware of their school performance, and in turn teachers need to be held accountable for performance targets for their students."

It sounds to me as if she knows how to hold people accountable - even in this industry where it is antithetical to the culture.

This statement means a lot to me:

"I believe that when all students come to school they need to see growth, they need to improve," she said.

This tells me that she is not going to abandon high performing students to focus exclusively on those working below grade level.

I think she sounds terrific.

Jet City mom said...

I agree Charlie- I think she sounds very focused- I admit I was very hesitant after what felt like was a rushed process- since the only other likely candidate dropped out of the running, but I'm looking forward to watching G-J & Santorno show Seattle what women can do

Anonymous said...

"It is available from 1-12 although 9-12 is what we have"

I think that the plan is that Denny and Sealth are going to create a 6-12 IB track.

Jet City mom said...


This has some helpful info

I hope the Denny/Sealth plan has more community support than the 4-period day at West Seattle-

Anonymous said...


The four period day has a LOT of support in West Seattle. That is the crux of the problem, as many, if not more, people want to keep the 4 period day than those who want the 6. Two groups equally passionate that they are right.

But, seperate from that monster, the IB program has a lot of community support, it was an idea proposed by the community to West Seattle intially, the did not bite, and then really developed when John Boyd and Jeff Clark moved to Sealth and Denny, are were ready to put in the effort needed to bring the programs in.

Brita said...

Hello all,

Our elder daughter went through the APP track in Seattle Public Schools grades 2-12 (Madrona, Washington, Garfield). The younger daughter went through Bryant and Eckstein Spectrum and now is in I.B. at Ingraham (she qualified for APP all along, BTW).

The elder daughter took a lot of AP courses at Garfield and got into all 6 colleges she applied to, including an Ivy, and graduated with honors from Wesleyan in CT. She did not get credit at college for any AP courses but I'm sure her AP courses and tests scores were a factor in admissions. College admissions officers told us that they look to see what courses the student took from those offered at their particular high school.

IB is administered differently at different schools. At Ingraham, students take 2 years of pre-IB courses which turned out to be really wonderful, rigorous and interesting courses. In Jr. and Sr. years, students can take one or all IB courses offered and can choose to take the tests or not. Students apply for the program but my understanding is that all who are interested can get in. Most importantly, the IB organization requires that teachers trained by IB must teach in the school's regular program as well as in the IB program, thus spreading good teaching practices. Our younger daughter has taken a full IB load, did extremely well on the two IB exams she took this spring, and plans to go for the IB diploma (optional) which involves writing a 4000-word essay, taking a 7th period class after school for two semesters, and perhaps some other requirements I'm forgetting.

Both AP and IB have been rigorous and not for the faint-hearted! Both require a ton of outside reading and work. It appears to us that the pre-IB and IB courses are more oriented to critical thinking than to memorization but there is a fair amount of that also. AP history courses taught students to work with primary documents, which I really liked. IB's extra class, Theory of Knowledge, is something to get students to think about their own learning.

IMHO these two types of advanced learning are both very rigorous. We'll see how daughter #2 fares in her college apps.

Just random thoughts, since you asked.