Tuesday Open Thread
I see the Superintendent supported the National Day of Racial Healing last week. What's odd is that his press release/tweet about it was put out yesterday. I also note from SPS twitter that Eckstein had a lockdown last Friday for about 25 minutes - Staff followed procedure in response to a student behavioral situation. All are safe and classes continue.
Tomorrow, Wednesday, Jan. 25th, is another kindergarten enrollment day at Rainier Beach Community Center from 6:45 pm to 8:45 pm.
The Washington State House passed a measure yesterday to prevent the levy cliff until 2019. A couple of Republicans crossed the aisle to pass the bill. The Senate has yet to even get it out of committee but I think the pressure is on to get it to the floor of the Senate for a vote.
Hale's basketball team is #1 in the nation and the Times examines how that team came to be.
Oh look, the White House website is now no longer available in Spanish or has info for disabled readers. On the other end of the political spectrum, a Saturday Night Live writer was suspended for a tweet about Trump's youngest son (who is a minor.) Note to all: underaged children of elected officials are off-limits. Always.
Mississippi has sued Google, claiming they violate student privacy. From ABC News:
Tomorrow, Wednesday, Jan. 25th, is another kindergarten enrollment day at Rainier Beach Community Center from 6:45 pm to 8:45 pm.
The Washington State House passed a measure yesterday to prevent the levy cliff until 2019. A couple of Republicans crossed the aisle to pass the bill. The Senate has yet to even get it out of committee but I think the pressure is on to get it to the floor of the Senate for a vote.
Hale's basketball team is #1 in the nation and the Times examines how that team came to be.
Oh look, the White House website is now no longer available in Spanish or has info for disabled readers. On the other end of the political spectrum, a Saturday Night Live writer was suspended for a tweet about Trump's youngest son (who is a minor.) Note to all: underaged children of elected officials are off-limits. Always.
Mississippi has sued Google, claiming they violate student privacy. From ABC News:
In a news conference Tuesday, Hood said Google is breaking Mississippi consumer protection law by selling ads using data from services it provides to schools.
"They're building a profile so they can advertise to them," Hood said. "They expressly stated in writing that they would not do that."The suit says Google could be fined up to $10,000 for each of its student accounts in Mississippi. With half the state's school districts using Google's email, calendar and other online services, that amount could top $1 billion.Hood sent a letter to local school superintendents Friday asking them to preserve evidence to help with the lawsuit. He's advising parents to consult their local school systems.
The Seattle Public Library Foundation announces the Stimson Bullitt Civic Courage Scholarship Competition.
The competition asks students to write an essay about an individual or group of individuals from Washington state who have demonstrated civic courage on an issue of importance to the community at great personal, political or professional risk.What's on your mind?
Essay submissions will be open from January 1 – March 15 and should be submitted here. Please make sure to fully read the eligibility and rules and judging criteria before submitting your essay.
1st Place: $5,000 scholarship
2nd Place: Two $2,500 scholarships
Comments
Here's what I think they should do:
$16.6 M to eliminate cuts to the WSS
$3.8 M to restore the fall enrollment reserve and funding to reduce school splits
$2.3 M to move to a two tier bell schedule
This leaves $7.3M for curriculum adoptions and to restore central office spending. Central admin would howl about this but what were they expecting when they signed the SEA contract promising money we don't have?
The other thing they should be considering is moving John Rogers into the Cedar Park building. We received state funds to renovate Cedar Park for use as an interim site and that's what it's suitable for. This would allow replacement of John Rogers in BEX V (or with another state grant) and allow plenty of time to plan for a successful option school opening at Cedar Park when the John Rogers students move out.
Agreed on John Rogers.
Call anyway
We need a plan for providing two years of world language classes to every student. Because we have a shortage of language teachers every year, schools will have to replace sections of third and fourth year classes with first and second year sections. We cannot become a district that limits learning in this way.
We need a plan for kids (at Garfield for example) who are required to take reading and math support and COE biology courses. A freshman enrolled in both reading and math support classes has just used half of their allowable electives for their four years of high school. Support classes must be offered outside of the regular school day.
We need a plan that provides every high school student with opportunities for credit retrieval and to receive credit for online classes. The availability of these opportunities must not continue to be a site-based decision. We need a plan for summer school course offerings.
hopeful
Seen It
As is the case now, it is cheaper for the district to pay overages in classrooms than pay for more FTE - by contract, HS gen-ed teachers get paid a little bit extra for anything over 150 per day. It's cheaper to pay that than hire another teacher:
let's say a teacher has about 15 kids overage, at 165 - they get about $4,000. This is three kids per section. If there were ten teachers all teaching three over, that's 30 extra kids. Pay the teachers $40,000, or pay for a whole 'nother teacher for $80,000. Hmmm.....hmmm....
They pay the overages. Teachers "gain," oh, 5% more in pay, students lose because teachers just can't do much more in crowded classrooms. A false economy.
My belief is that in a seven period scenario the district will want to pay existing teachers slightly more to do 20% more work rather than hire more FTE. There isn't a chance they are giving the teachers a 20% raise (an extra period's worth,) nor will they want to spend the money to buy 16% more FTE to cover an additional class for 1500 students.
Expect contract negotiations with the district wanting to pay teachers, oh, 8-10% more, if that.
IF the state pays for that extra period, giving more money to the district, otherwise.....
The proposed 3x5 schedule is a disaster. @SeattleCitizen, you say it's likely coming, but how on earth can it actually WORK? AP classes and IB programs are a particular problem. There are many others, as was discussed when the initial recommendation came out.
HF
International High School board member Sophia Dossin said Wednesday that the schedule makes it difficult for many students to just enroll in the classes they need to graduate....“Students who loaded their schedules with the hard classes are now having to pay out of pocket to take online classes because there’s not enough time or periods to get those things done,” Dossin said.
eugene-high-schools-may-move-toward-quarters-or-semesters
Too bad it's too late for my kid, who had to suffer through this screwball 3x5 system for the past three years, along with the incredibly idiotic CPM math curriculum, which teaches "working in groups" rather than math.
Can we not learn from the mistakes of others?
SPS insanity
- Curious
In that scenario, teachers would teach 6x45 = 4.5 hours instead of 5x50 = 4.17 hours and their workload would increase.
But I favor this schedule because, as you note, it provides flexibility to students, allows for additional electives, and avoids the wonky split core classes and significantly shortened seat time of the 3x5.
HP
http://www.seattleweekly.com/news/naacp-launches-movement-to-make-ethnic-studies-mandatory-in-seattle-schools/
sunny
HF
HF
-8th grade parent
How about just teaching history - the entire history - what came before, how this country came about, what happened (good and bad) during that creation and all the things (good and bad done by all kinds of people.)
That way no mucky-mucks at headquarters can whine about time or curriculum - there's plenty of curriculum out there. Just integrate it all into "history" and get it done.
Seen It
@ Seen It, what is this faculty committee you mentioned? Is it the group that came up with the initial recommendation (you know, the recommendation that they straight up noted they didn't know was even feasible for AP/IB)? Or is this a different group, charged with evaluating the other group's recommendation? If the latter, where can we get our hands on their additional analysis.
HF
#2 .. Given the above is moving to a 7 period day with only one plan period a good idea?
#3 .. At one time West Seattle HS used a 4 period day of 85 minute periods. Fife HS used 90 minute periods in a 4 period day.
#4 .. Vachon HS used a 5 period day on Trimesters for many years.
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The 3x5 idea I find very appealing. Class time can be scheduled based on content needing to be covered. Cool electives could be one trimester. That first Algebra Class can be 3 trimesters. Geometry needs only 2 trimesters. Frosh English could be 3 trimesters. AP Calculus could be 3 trimesters.
Some schools currently have students double dipping to learn enough math freshman year to learn algebra.
A 90 day semester at 50 min = 4500 minutes (for each class)
A 60 day trimester at 75 minutes = 4500 minutes
A 60 day trimester at 70 minutes = 4200 minutes (7% less than 4500)
7 x 50 minutes = 350 minutes per day
5 x 75 minutes = 375 minutes per day
5 x 70 minutes = 350 minutes per day
The 5 x 70 minute schedule
means a 2 trimester class has 7% less class time than a 2 semester class
Using 3 (70 min) trimesters instead of 2 (50 min) semesters adds 3600 minutes of additional class time.
12600 min to 9000 min
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What exactly are we attempting to do with a school schedule?
-- Dan Dempsey
7 period day at 50 min with one period plan
50/300 = 16.7%
5 period day at 70 min with one period plan
70/280 = 25%
A current day with teaching 5 periods at 55 min = 275 min
A current day with teaching 5 periods at 50 min = 250 min
Teaching 4 periods at 70 min = 280 min
-- Dan Dempsey
-JT
HP
Normal Schedule
8:00-8:10 a.m. • Homeroom
8:10-9:35 a.m. • First Class
9:35-9:55 a.m. • Activity Period
9:55-11:20 a.m. • Second Class
11:20 a.m.-1:15 p.m. • Third Class
(11:20-11:50 • 1st Lunch)
(12:45-1:15 • 2nd Lunch)
1:15-2:40 p.m. • Fourth Class
Students take 6 to 7 credits every year. Classes don't necessarily meet everyday.
HP
300 min = 6 periods x 50 minutes
For a traditional 2x6 schedule: Total instructional time per year, per course = 180 days x 50 min = 9000 min
For a 3x5 schedule (assuming a traditional course is now squeezed into 2 trimesters of 60 days each, and slightly longer periods of at most 60 min): Total instructional time per year, per course = 120 days x 60 min = 7200 min
By changing to a 3x5 schedule, a course needs to cover the same content with a 20% reduction in total class time. They loose the equivalent of (36) 50 min class periods, or over 7 weeks of class time. How is that possible? If students are struggling to cover the content with the existing 2 semester schedule, how is reducing the total contact time going to improve outcomes? The idea that students are somehow going to go more in depth with each class is laughable.
More magical thinking from SPS. It's hard to believe it was recommended without working out the basic math.
A schedule with 6 periods a day MWF, then 3 extended periods T and Th (periods 1, 3, and 5 on one day and periods 2, 4, and 6 on another, for example), could provide more flexibility without chipping away at class time.
It is very unclear what is going on with start/end times and scheduling for next year. There are 3 possible changes: 1) A 20 min extension to the day, 2) early release days every Wed, and 3) maybe a 3x5 schedule. When will schools and parents know what is what?
-No 3x5!
With a 3x5 schedule and the suggestion that some classes could be 3 trimesters, what happens to the elective? No band? No art? There would be no time left for a 6th class - a 6th class that is needed to get 24 credits: 4 years x 6 credits per year.
-No 3x5!
http://www.joannejacobs.com/2017/01/libertarian-builds-low-cost-private-schools/
It's a network of bare bones, low cost private schools that look like charters. Classes are large, facilities don't include lunch rooms, sports fields or large auditoriums, and unlike charters, they can exclude high needs students. Is this similar to what Lakeside is creating with a new campus in south Seattle?
-a reader
EdVoter
Your numbers are a little off. The current six-period day allows for 55-minute periods, so that's 450 more minutes per semester than you said.
A 90 day semester at 55 min = 4950 minutes (for each class)
Comparing this to the 60 day trimester at 70 min = 4200 minutes, it's 750 fewer minutes--15% less time, not 7% less.
Let's think about HW for a minute, too. If you need to cover the same amount of material in significantly fewer days, you'll need to assign more homework each night, right? You can't just work that into class time, since you're already losing 450 instructional minutes. If a class typically reads a novel each 30 days, they'll need to expedite and read it in 20 instead. If you have kids write a paper each month, you'll need to have them write one every 20 days instead. And so on. Or, you reduce the workload to accommodate the decrease in instructional time and term length--in other words, reduce the course content and rigor to reflect the new schedule.
When you put like the above, it sounds bad, right? And you'd probably argue that no, that's not necessary--core academic classes that require a year's worth of material and assignments can take 3 trimesters instead. True. But that is also kind of an acknowledgement that those "other" courses--those that don't still require a year--will be reduced in content/rigor. Otherwise they'd need more time. Unless, of course, you think they have too much time right now, and that kids are currently spending too much time in them...
The 3x5 schedule is inequitable, disproportionately punishing students who want to take a strong college prep schedule. So much for promoting college readiness. A strong college prep schedule will include many year-long classes in core academic areas: math, science, english, and history. In addition, it will also include at least three full years of foreign language, and likely music.
It's not reasonable to expect AP classes, for example, to be covered in the greatly reduced timeframe, so that means AP classes would be three trimesters. Music classes, also, are typically year-long. Let's say a student takes this:
Science: 1 yr of pre-AP (2 trimesters) and 3 yrs of AP science = 11 classes
English: 2yrs of pre-AP and 2 yrs AP = 10 classes
Math: 1 yr pre-AP (2 trimesters), 3 yrs of AP = 11 classes
SS/History: 1 yr pre-AP (2 trimesters) and 3 yrs of AP History/US Govt = 11 classes
Orchestra: 4 full years = 12 classes
Foreign language: 2 yrs of pre-AP, 1 yr of AP = 7 classes
Health and Fitness: 4 classes
Career and Technical Ed: 2 classes
That's a total of...68 classes. Oops, the 3x5 only allows 60! And that's only if they can manage to get a full schedule every term, which is highly unlikely given how things have been.
So how could the student above fit in their classes? The Health and CTE are required by the state, so they need to cut elsewhere. It's not reasonable to expect students to give up their instrument, so the only real option is to drop AP classes in favor of shorter, less rigorous GE versions that can be done in 2 trimesters. But that's not really reasonable either, is it?
I just don't see how this works for kids on an AP, college prep path---which, we hope, is more and more kids. Can you better explain how this works???
Think of it one other way. A couple "plusses" of the 3x5 schedule as noted in the task force report were that it (1) increases the number/variety of classes kids can take; and (2) it decreases homework loads. If that's true, it has to decrease the amount of work kids do in each class. You can take more, but you do and cover less in each of them.
HF
The workload does not decrease, and the number of classes that can be taken is reduced because of the increased schedule limitations. The schedule only works when classes are staggered - some 1st and 3rd semester, some 2nd and 3rd semester, some 1st and 2nd semester, etc. The staggered schedule creates more challenges. Would different teachers teach each trimester? Would students remember material if they had a trimester gap in the course? Where is the continuity?
I am still baffled this got out of committee as a recommendation.
-No 3x5!
No 3x5 wrote:
"I am still baffled this got out of committee as a recommendation."
Most anything can come out of an SPS committee.
RLF wrote:
" Human learning is not a banking activity, but it seems like it from this discussion."
Yup .. for many in this discussion ... Vashon HS must have completely mis-educated youth for many years.
Look at what a teacher in Singapore does here, during 37 work hours per week and
teaching less than 50% of the time.
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"To improve a system requires the intelligent application of relevant data"
-- Dan Dempsey
I wonder if US spends a similar amount?
-- Dan Dempsey
7 period day with two planning periods => 28.7% of time for planning (2/7)
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How does one create an amazing educational environmemt?
-- Dan Dempsey
PS - Many parents have provided "relevant data" (e.g., scheduling examples) on why doing it as you suggested doesn't work well. I'm looking forward to seeing how you "intelligently apply" that information in your next response, as opposed to just providing more information on funding levels and planning time percentages.
I assume you're being sarcastic re: Vashon HS, but I did see an article on their change from 3x5 to 2x6 that said: "School district officials say there have been concerns and complaints about the trimester system at VHS for years. Many core classes are only assigned for two of three terms in a year, creating gaps in instruction that some say can be problematic, especially in skills-based classes." Yup. Sounds like 3x5 was problematic! It also sounds like they don't offer as much in the way of AP classes--only 40% participated, vs. 65% at Garfield.
HF
common sense