Roosevelt
I may be jumping into a hornet's nest here but there's a lot of confusion and anger out there over high school assignments. (I may be repeating a few things I said elsewhere but I want to paint a full picture.)
I was at a Site Council meeting at Roosevelt last night and learned that the waitlist, including all grades not just 9th, is over 400. That's a lot of disappointed people.
The big issue that each and every one of us needs to get, that no enrollment plan can fairly address, is that we live in a geographically challenged city. Period.
Wednesday night I was at a PTSA meeting where the changed to Metro was discussed and a scatter map of eligible students given out. I was surprised at how many students come from Magnolia/QA/SE. But that will change in the coming years. Here's why.
First, a little review. When a school is overenrolled, a series of tiebreakers kick in. The first (and most obvious) is sibling. Then, it's region (except high school is an all-city draw so the city is the region). Then distance. Then lottery.
I think what happened this year (and maybe for a few more) is a perfect storm of conditions. New building for an academically successful school with great programs. More private school parents noticing this and applying to get in. The last of the siblings from students who were probably the last ones to use the racial tiebreaker are coming in from all directions. The distance circle got smaller as the sibs/private school students/closest distance students all converged.
But those sibs from other parts of the city are likely to be the last ones to get into Roosevelt. It will become a largely NE, above the ship canal school in the coming years.
But the NE didn't just suddenly sprout teenagers. Roosevelt will likely continue to be successful and continue to draw in private school students.
So what's the answer? It's not packing more students in. The school is already overenrolled, not enough money for everyone who wants a 6-period day to have one, not enough lockers, etc.
So two things could happen. One, the enrollment below the ship canal will ease, allowing more NE students in. (If it doesn't, then I would wonder what was happening and think the district needs to look at each enrollment application from south of the ship canal carefully.) Two, Hale could (and should) open its doors to more students. I don't know how they think they can continue (especially after they get renovated thanks to BEX III) as a 1050-1100 seat school. It's just not fair to Roosevelt to have to continue to expand as Hale holds the line.
I do wonder why Ingraham (according to what I have heard) has no waitlist. It's a pretty good school with a good IB program. Both Hale and Ingraham are comprehensive high schools so there should be a solution to this problem.
I was at a Site Council meeting at Roosevelt last night and learned that the waitlist, including all grades not just 9th, is over 400. That's a lot of disappointed people.
The big issue that each and every one of us needs to get, that no enrollment plan can fairly address, is that we live in a geographically challenged city. Period.
Wednesday night I was at a PTSA meeting where the changed to Metro was discussed and a scatter map of eligible students given out. I was surprised at how many students come from Magnolia/QA/SE. But that will change in the coming years. Here's why.
First, a little review. When a school is overenrolled, a series of tiebreakers kick in. The first (and most obvious) is sibling. Then, it's region (except high school is an all-city draw so the city is the region). Then distance. Then lottery.
I think what happened this year (and maybe for a few more) is a perfect storm of conditions. New building for an academically successful school with great programs. More private school parents noticing this and applying to get in. The last of the siblings from students who were probably the last ones to use the racial tiebreaker are coming in from all directions. The distance circle got smaller as the sibs/private school students/closest distance students all converged.
But those sibs from other parts of the city are likely to be the last ones to get into Roosevelt. It will become a largely NE, above the ship canal school in the coming years.
But the NE didn't just suddenly sprout teenagers. Roosevelt will likely continue to be successful and continue to draw in private school students.
So what's the answer? It's not packing more students in. The school is already overenrolled, not enough money for everyone who wants a 6-period day to have one, not enough lockers, etc.
So two things could happen. One, the enrollment below the ship canal will ease, allowing more NE students in. (If it doesn't, then I would wonder what was happening and think the district needs to look at each enrollment application from south of the ship canal carefully.) Two, Hale could (and should) open its doors to more students. I don't know how they think they can continue (especially after they get renovated thanks to BEX III) as a 1050-1100 seat school. It's just not fair to Roosevelt to have to continue to expand as Hale holds the line.
I do wonder why Ingraham (according to what I have heard) has no waitlist. It's a pretty good school with a good IB program. Both Hale and Ingraham are comprehensive high schools so there should be a solution to this problem.
Comments
Twenty years ago while I was teaching high school, I chaired a committee to look into IB. Two other teachers and I from a small private school in one of the toniest suburbs in the world spent the day at an inner-city Milwaukee school drooling (and were sad to conclude that we just were not big enough to create such a program ourselves). So why did we choose Roosevelt over Ingraham?
Mostly because my son is hoping to attend high school only one or two years, the transition school is his aspiration. (He is skipping 8th grade so will still be eligible to apply next year.) Young Scholars would be his next goal. So why attend Ingraham with only pre-IB for a year or two when he can get a comparable experience at Roosevelt?
Since he may very well be the youngest freshman on campus, I also considered the fact that he already knows a lot of kids who will be at Roosevelt, it being our neighborhood school. As many others agree, many folks like neighborhood schools.
But it feels wrong that not everyone in the neighborhood, in the community, can get in. All the APP arguments about how APP ought not be split up, since it forms a community and other kids get to remain in their communities just doesn't hold up when other kids do not get to remain with their community. (I am not saying APP should be split up, just don't claim that not splitting it up would be the norm and not a privilege.) There are five Integrated III kids at Eckstein, they've been in many classes together, they are teaching themselves Int III together as a semi-independent study, they participate (and do well) in Math competitions together, but alas, one lives just a few blocks too far east. What's Hale going to be like for a student who comes in ready for pre-calculus?
Not only is Roosevelt closer, it is also centrally located on metro bus routes to everywhere. Ingraham is very difficult to get to by metro from our house. Yes, there will be yellow bus, but for how long? And that limits after school choices. It will be much easier for him to have autonomy for after school activities at Roosevelt. I think that's an important aspect of growing up.
Melissa is right that the only way kids outside the 1.81 mile boundary can get in is as a sibling. The map she refers to states that 836 kids, about half the school, are outside that boundary. That number will definitely fall as the siblings graduate. Good news for Laurelhurst, since the 1.81 boundary may expand as the siblings in other parts of town graduate. Bad news for many others though, who mistakenly believe Seattle has school choice.
From what I'm hearing there are pockets of problems getting into some elementary schools (and some of that may be because the schools are so small) like McGilvra and Montlake or TOPS/John Stanford (because of popularity). Middle school is a real problem because there are not many "popular" schools - Washington, Whitman and Eckstein come to mind. But I'd like to hear from parents at other middle schools about how they feel. The other middle and K-8 schools aren't exactly empty. And then you have the high school issue.
Should we have different enrollment procedures for the different levels of schools? Should the district believe that "one size fits all" for an enrollment program?
If we changed high school enrollment from an all-city draw to region, you'd sure have a lot of unhappy people (just a different group than who are now unhappy). You'd have to have a lottery process for the bio-tech program at Ballard and the IB programs at Ingraham/Sealth (if demand warranted it). You'd have to have an audition process for the music programs at Roosevelt and Garfield because it would be beyond unfair to deny access to those nationally-ranked programs because of where someone lives. You'd likely have to put more AP at all the schools whose parents demanded it (or help students with navigating taking AP online which, apparently, is a growing trend). It's logistics such as those that the district would have to plow through and I'm not sure they want to given the high first-choice rate already in place.
I'd welcome any ideas because it is going to be discussed this fall and we might as well get a jump on it. This district, even with a high first choice rate, shouldn't be alienating any neighborhood so it's worth making the effort to discuss it.
Clarification--the student assignment plan is being overhauled this spring. The board has had at least one work session and several committee discussions of it. It is on the agenda for our next Student Learning Committee meeting next Tues. at 5:30 PM (entire meeting starts at 4:30).
We are discussing what a student assignment plan needs to look like to optimize student learning. The Board's operations committee is looking at the operational details.
Everyone is welcome to attend and observe the discussion. The current system is cumbersome, unfair, and hard to understand, with more of an illusion of choice than real choice.
Brita
Additionally, I suspect that the "90+%" figure for first-choice assignment is not really representative, as it does not account for folks who either go the private school route rather than take their chances on maybe getting what they want in the public schools. It also does not account for those who don't even put their real first choice on the form because they look at the system and conclude that there is no chance they will get it anyway, so they put as their first choice the one they like and feel like they have a realistic chance of getting into (yes, this really does happen: I have talked with people who have done it). All this adds up to significantly less than 90+% satisfaction with the assignment system.
Do you know if Roosevelt has made more seats available (like Ballard did yesterday)for 9th grade general education students wait listed there? Thanks,
anon
Nothing else would be data-based.
It may mean that the District needs to re-purpose some buildings. Perhaps Old Hay is converted from the Secondary B.O.C. to use as the Center School. Perhaps the Monroe building becomes an adjunct to Ballard High School and Salmon Bay moves to Viewlands. Perhaps Marshall becomes an adjunct to Roosevelt High School.
I don't know what changes will be needed, but whatever they are, they will be driven by the demand, not by bureaucratic fiat.
Why do we have to change enrollment at all? Why not just add capacity at the few places in the city that need it? If Roosevelt is over-crowded, then perhaps we need to duplicate it, band and all, so that families can be accomodated. And it still begs the question....why doesn't Hale have a waitlist? Parents want AP, band, great test scores etc. And, Hale with it's acadamies and lack of AP courses etc, has taken on an "alternative" persona, and families that want a traditional school are turning away. Many of the AEII and Salmon Bay wind up at Hale. They say it is compatable with an alternative program. It appears to me that we have enough alternative capacity, and that families are saying they want more traditional HS seats.
I agree with the comment uneasy with accepting the 90+% getting their first choice at face value. I think the board (and the public) needs more information before buying this figure. The district makes all kind of pretty maps and data analysis. Are there maps about who gets first choice schools? Let's see some real information about choice and how many people at what grade level and in what section of the city get their first choice? Could younger siblings (for whom there is no concern) possibly be miscounted here? Or, if you think siblings ought to be counted, how about a breakdown of what percent of first children vs subsequent children get their first choice? I'd be very surprised if this analysis ended up showing 90+% at first choice schools spread out all over the city.
And that's not even considering polling parents citywide to find what percent didn't even apply for their first choice, thinking it impossible to get.
About Montlake and McGilvra, I just meant that because they are small, there are fewer spaces available. They are, of course, very popular. I had hoped that McGilvra would make the BEX III list because it would be a tremendous boon to that area and likely to draw back many private school parents in that neighborhood as well as be a great choice for displaced MLK students. Maybe next round which is about 6-7 years down the road.
If that's true about Salmon Bay kids going to Hale because they perceive it is more alternative then there's a problem because Summit, an alternative K-12, is right across the street.
We are coming back to the same question, though. Why can't successful programs be duplicated? Why can't the district listen to what parents want instead of having schools go off in their own directions? As Charlie says, the argument can be made to follow the successful (read: full) programs.
It's interesting because there are schools in our district that may not be popular and/or full but are well-liked by the families in them. For some kids and their families, a supportive school community is very important even if their academics are not strong and they have little in the way of enrichment. The question then to ask is can we have schools that are liked by a small segment of people but are not necessarily academically successful and may be taking capacity away from parents who want something different in that area?
I think it is good to have a K-12 school and I wish the district could have kept their promise and moved them back to a central location. That said, it would be nice if they had more effective leadership to re-establish a mission and identity.
One was that the district stated that she would not qualify for either gifted or disability support programs, despite being able to benefit from both.
The logistical reason even though we did identify a couple programs that we thought could work for her, assignments were not given until after the deposit for the private school was due, and while private school wait lists move during the summer, public school doesn't move their wait list until fall and I didn't want her to attend school for one or two months at one school and then switch, even if it was a school that we wanted.
I will also say, as a long time resident of Seattle, I had never known anyone who had attended private school except for a few peers who were Catholic, and never imagine my child would attend private.
However,since the private schools that value economic diversity have very good financial aid, we found it to be a more manageable choice than moving to the suburbs for better schools.
I do appreciate the menage of students in SPS, but I feel the city loses a lot, when families can't afford to live here, or when the ones that can, don't choose to, because they are frustrated with the lack of communication and continuity in SPS.
We are blue college- very moderate income, but if I had to do it over again, I would still live in the city, but I would keep both my kids in private school, not because of the students or families in public school, but because of a failure to put the child at the center of education at the district level.
I appreciate how people say that the school district should consider audtioning to allow students to get priority in certain schools due to the school's programs ie drama, music, etc. I spoke to someone yesterday whose daughter is going to Roosevelt in the Fall. The dad said that they didn't even list another school on the application because of the jazz choir was very important to their daughter. They are fortunate to live close enough,in the Bryant neighborhood, to not even worry about it. Then I heard a mom at my daughter's school talk about how they lost a house in Bryant that had multiple offers and went $70000 over asking (and was already way overpriced given the condition of the house) and was doing another inspection for another Bryant house with 2 other inspections scheduled for that same house that day. I had no idea the market was still that hot and I jokingly thought if these were families wanting their kids to get into Roosevelt who figured the extra mortgage cost/investment was less than what they would otherwise pay for private school. I know someone in Laurelhurst who already said they would buy in Wedgwood just to assure their children got into Roosevelt - it was that important to her.
Seriously though, the audtion idea sounds good unless you are a neighborhood kid who doesn't get into the school because your spot is taken by someone across town with a better musical talent. If your child is really great in theater, there are so many other programs in Seattle for youth to participate in.
I feel for the 2.1 miles though - that is what we live from Roosevelt too, and my oldest child is only in lower elementary school and LOVES drama and is already activly taking classes - so we could be in the similar situation.
I still believe you should be given priority to the school closest to your home period. Then at least when you buy a house, you know for sure (unless a new school is built/opened) which school your child has a 100% shot of getting into, and if it's not the right school, either take your chances or move.
Bottom line - geography is already what is being used to determine what school your child attends so people on the South end would not get into Roosevelt unless they had a sibling. My post was all about predictability - not about having all the affluent people buy houses where they want to get into schools - that happens, but my whole thing is I want my child at a school in his or her community and not have the inconveniences of driving across the city to go to school with kids that live in other parts of the city rather than the kids he or she grew up with. That's one reason we didn't do private school - (money was a factor of course too, but financial aid can be quite good)- we wanted that community factor/to walk to school.
When the predictable outcome is bad, predictability is bad.
Would those who wanted to get into Roosevelt and found themselves assigned to Cleveland have been happy if they had been told that they could 100% rely on being able to get into Cleveland?
Well, I have good news. They already HAVE that predictability because Cleveland is underenrolled. Anyone who wants to enroll their high school student at Cleveland is assured of access. There's your predictability. Happy now?