The Letter's in the Mail
Hopping over to Denise Gonzalez-Walker's PI blog, I see that last Friday the district sent out assignment letters. Boy, I'll bet there's a lot of people rifling through their mail today.
Here's some other info:
"Waiting List Information
Waiting List Moves Will Begin May 1. If your child has been placed on a waiting list, the waiting list school is included in the letter. Waiting lists are maintained until October 31.
To find out your child's place on the waiting list, call our Automated Student Information Line at 252-0212. You will need the child's birth date and the student ID# from the assignment letter."
(Also, only new to the district students can take open spots after the waitlists are dissolved so even if a spot were to open up, it's not available to previously enrolled students. This is what I was told by Tracy Libros in Enrollment.)
Speaking from the high school perspective, this year is certainly a wild card. Garfield is reopening which is great and I'm sure they'll have a waitlist out the door. (Roosevelt's crashed the system last year.) However, since Hale is going into renovation - for 3 years on-site - that may turn some people away. Sealth, as well, is exiting their building for 2 years over at Boren only to come back and then be a worksite for Denny for another 2 years. That might turn a few people away (not to mention people who might wonder about the unity in that building between the principal and the staff).
I can't speak for Garfield or Ballard but Roosevelt is certainly going to try to hold the line against any increases (and we're actually hoping for a smaller freshman class than in the past 2 years). We just have too many kids for our building and too few resources. I'm sure there are parents out there who would rather have their child in a school they preferred, even if packed, then a different choice. But the kids are complaining, the staff is packed into every space (some have to rotate out of classrooms and there are no extra rooms there at all for any purpose) and the seniors don't get lockers. But the first round of assignments goes to the district so we'll have to see how many they put into Roosevelt in the first place and then go from there on the waitlist.
Here's some other info:
"Waiting List Information
Waiting List Moves Will Begin May 1. If your child has been placed on a waiting list, the waiting list school is included in the letter. Waiting lists are maintained until October 31.
To find out your child's place on the waiting list, call our Automated Student Information Line at 252-0212. You will need the child's birth date and the student ID# from the assignment letter."
(Also, only new to the district students can take open spots after the waitlists are dissolved so even if a spot were to open up, it's not available to previously enrolled students. This is what I was told by Tracy Libros in Enrollment.)
Speaking from the high school perspective, this year is certainly a wild card. Garfield is reopening which is great and I'm sure they'll have a waitlist out the door. (Roosevelt's crashed the system last year.) However, since Hale is going into renovation - for 3 years on-site - that may turn some people away. Sealth, as well, is exiting their building for 2 years over at Boren only to come back and then be a worksite for Denny for another 2 years. That might turn a few people away (not to mention people who might wonder about the unity in that building between the principal and the staff).
I can't speak for Garfield or Ballard but Roosevelt is certainly going to try to hold the line against any increases (and we're actually hoping for a smaller freshman class than in the past 2 years). We just have too many kids for our building and too few resources. I'm sure there are parents out there who would rather have their child in a school they preferred, even if packed, then a different choice. But the kids are complaining, the staff is packed into every space (some have to rotate out of classrooms and there are no extra rooms there at all for any purpose) and the seniors don't get lockers. But the first round of assignments goes to the district so we'll have to see how many they put into Roosevelt in the first place and then go from there on the waitlist.
Comments
Nice to know that SOMETHING for the district worked the way it was set up to do.
That's hopeful for those of us in the NE who were hoping for access to Roosevelt. I think the numbers vary so much year to year. I have a 7th grader this year, and he is in a bubble year where there were more than normal kids, and schools have been very difficult to get into, we we'll see what happens next year, but for now......there's hope...
Helen Schinske
However, district didn't assign the younger child to same school as sibling but one that wasn't on their list at all. Older sibs school is about 15 minutes away with moderate traffic, younger sibs new school will be opposite direction and about 30 minutes away from their home.
Things like this, push parents out of the city/public schools.Its not that the 2nd school is a bad school, but especially when your kids are young, you want them at the same school.
This makes me wonder if there is a larger population going to K this year, or perhaps because of the downturn, fewer parents able/willing to pay for private school. (Neither of the two families who applied to private, non-denominational school got in).
This is true of sibs in different grades too-so if K assignments were made before 2nd grade a kindergartener could bump their linked sib to sibling status, but if the 2nd grader got in, that wouldn't help the kindergartener.
Classof75: Could the kindergarteners 'needs' have impacted their assignment? Did the District assign them to a program that wasn't available at the sib's school?
I keep wondering what schools everyone is talking about (e.g., NW, so Whittier?) It would be especially interesting to know which schools don't have room for all of their siblings so we could tell if bubble classes or class size buy down might have been involved.
Not according to what Tracy Libros told me -- she said "If the sibling (twin) doesn’t get in based on her own “tiebreakers” she will be linked with the student who was admitted. This will pull the sibling up toward the top of the waiting list. However, there is not a guarantee – it depends on the applicant pool and the tiebreakers of that applicant pool." That suggests to me that the link is not a tiebreaker in itself, while sibling preference is.
I see on http://www.seattleschools.org/area/eso/faqs_secondary.html that the final tiebreaker is by lottery, though, so we may just have gotten lucky that way.
Helen
No, private schools are bulging at the seams this year.
Open seats in a Spectrum program use two tiebreakers - first, students with siblings at the same school and then students who live in the same cluster or reference area for the school requested. Then it goes to lottery. And when open seats are filled, students are wait listed.
We got waitlisted for Spectrum at Washington. Very disappointing as the other choices in SE are quite limited.
On the other hand, just because a family pursues private testing does not mean that their kid will achieve the needed test scores. And, the WASL is not a good choice of tests to determine advanced learning eligability - as has been pointed out in several other threads on this blog in the past.
I would agree that the Shoreline model makes sense. My understanding is that the Shoreline district is different to Seattle in that the make-up of the student population is pretty consistent from school to school. That would make it easier to move teachers around and reallocate resources if overall needs are pretty much the same in most schools. Seattle would need to get all schools performing at an adequate level in order to implement the system for a Spectrum-like program in SHoreline.
Of course, that's what they should be doing anyway.
Maybe we could have done private testing and gotten into Spectrum, but the money on that seemed like a crap-shoot, whereas the money for private school nearly guarantees a better result.
What a crazy bubble of kids in NE Seattle this year. There are a lot of really upset parents who felt like they would get into their reference school if not a school close by outside it (including Thorton Creek).
I don't think the answer is to keep squeezing kids into existing schools making them burst at the seams, like at Bryant, and Eckstein and Roosevelt. I don't think families should be turned away from their reference schools. YUK!
The answer is more capacity for the NE cluster. We need a new k-8 school to relieve the elementary and middle school pressure in this cluster. Jane Adams has a capacity for holding over a thousand students, yet is severely under enrolled as the all city draw, Summit k-12. It's time to move Summit to a more central location for all city busing, and use this space responsibly, for a new k-8 school in this cluster.
I think the closest Spectrum school to Whittier is Broadview. That isn't in the same cluster and it is a very different type of school than Whittier. Much, much bigger with very different programs. Of course, that Spectrum program is never even close to full.
Just to clarify about Shoreline... There is a test-into High Cap program at the elementary level. At middle school/high school, those kids just re-enter the general population and all kids are eligible to take honors classes. If a parent pushes for honors classes and the teacher thinks the child isn't ready, that is usually made clear to the parents.
There are only two middle schools (and one alternative K-8 which is a good school but very small) in all of Shoreline, so it is easier to create consistency across the programs. Also, there isn't a huge demographic difference between schools the way there is in Seattle.
Uhhhh, except that there's no law requiring that service. That is, there's no law requiring special service to the slightly above average. And there's a reason for that. Special education laws are in place because of HUGE inequities... like students with disabilities not even being allowed to go to ANY school until 1975. And now, students in special education being in portables with the same teachers 100% of their school careers. Like 5 year olds in the same classes with 12 year olds. Wanting an optimal education is commendable, but isn't a legal requirement.
As far as Shoreline goes, I will comment because we are in a Shoreline middle school. ALL, any, every kid who wants honors can take it in middle school AND high school. All, and, every kid who wants to take an AP class in high school can take it. No wait list....every. They move staff around to accommodate their students needs. I have NEVER heard a teacher discourage a student from taking honors. In fact they encourage every student interested to give it a try. The only requirement in MS is that they maintain a 75% or they can be bumped into a regular class. Very civilized, huh.
Could you be more specific about what you mean that the district focus is on diverting resources to the Southend?
As a SE family, we really don't see too much evidence of that and in fact I see fewer choices and not more for quality programs and
fewer good advanced learning opportunities.
I continue to think that "spectrum" level instruction should be available to any child who wants it (and who can do the work). Who is it that opposes that solution? As I started with, I don't think it's a resource allocation issue, since the kids have to be taught anyway.
Does it cost more to offer a Spectrum classroom than a regular ed classroom?
Who decides how many Spectrum classes will be offered at a school? The principal at the school or the district?
Why can't any student take Spectrum classes? Why MUST you test in? Can't it be offered to any motivated student and just have a requirement to maintain a certain grade or GPA?
Why is Spectrum limited to only a couple subjects? Why doesn't it include social studies, science?? Why are there no honors options for these other subjects??
Make your case - swamp the supt with letters before a decision is made regarding the change in Advanced Learning programs. Copy the Board. You can use email. Unless you tell the supt, she doesn't know about this condition. She doesn't know there are waitlists and she doesn't know how much you'd appreciate a reasonable person addressing this need. The new Bd. doesn't know about this either. Ask a question or two - such as, how many children are on waitlists, doesn't the number of children exiting the public schools warrant a change in service, etc. Asking a question may initiate a conversation between the supt and the new Advanced Learning team. Just because this condition has a long history, doesn't mean it needs to remain a problem.
Spectrum should be in the schools that demand it. Why should someone who lives in the View Ridge neighborhood have to rip their child out of their neighborhood, away from their friends, and bus them across the cluster to Wedgewood to get Spectrum, when View Ridge OFFERS it?? Does that make sense????? And how about Eckstein?? It is THE ONLY middle school in the NE cluster. If you are put on their Spectrum WL, I guess you are just out of luck. Just because there are multiple offerings in the cluster does not mean that there is enough Spectrum seats to accommodate all the kids that are Spectrum qualified, as is obvious by the huge wait lists.
Also, if we had more access to Spectrum seats, maybe the district wouldn't have to keep such a tight leash on who "gets in", and they could do away with the expensive tests, and let all motivated students who want to give it a try. Hey now that's a concept isn't it.
My broad comment is that, sadly, this district does not like have to serve gifted kids. I'm sorry and you can disagree but from my experience, my view is that the district does understand the need to offer something but really, they don't have the time, inclination or belief in gifted education. (But Bob Vaughn in Advanced Learning is a highly qualified guy; it's just that you need someone in leadership to step up and that have never seen that happen.)
Indeed, I don't even think it's just the district; it's parents as well who perceive any parent saying their child is gifted is (a) asking for more for that child and (b) believing their child is more "precious" than other kids. What is missing is the link that gifted kids need their academic needs met just like any other student, no more, no less. They are NOT there to act as the calming presence for other students, they are NOT there to be teacher's helper and they are NOT there to quietly sit and wait while the teacher has to take longer with other students.
You can bitterly disagree with those statements but that's my experience. What I do know, for a fact, is that in other parts of the country there are public magnet schools just for gifted kids. No apologies, no excuses. That's where a lot of the Intel Science competition winners come from. There are states that don't have enough gifted schools in each town and thus have state boarding schools for gifted students. Why? Because those states perceive it to be necessary.
I've said this before, I'll say it again. We recognize talent in music and the arts and in sports in our schools but say a kid is academically advanced and parents get very upset. I don't get it.
I do sincerely wish that the audit had covered Spectrum and Advanced Learning Opportunities (and not just APP) because I think some detached observers would have clearly seen and explained the problems to the Super.
To try to answer questions:
-Spectrum, while a decent program, is not conducted in the same manner throughout the district. Each Spectrum school gets to decide how much they want to do and how the delivery is. Spectrum at Whittier is not the same as at Lafayette or at Viewridge or any other place. How the district can make any clear judgments on the success of the program (except that people value it and, clearly, fight to get in).
-ALOs are NOT the same as Spectrum. Again, the district allows each school to do as much or as little as they want in having an ALO. It doesn't really solve anything but is a good thing to have for kids who do want to reach a little higher.
-why can't Spectrum-type rigor just be incorporated into a regular ed classroom where it can benefit all students? It could and I for one would have no problem with it. I'd still want separate classes, though, for kids who test into them. Why? For a couple of reasons. One, there's a certain number of APP kids whose parents, for whatever reason, don't choose to send them to Lowell. They, like some of the Spectrum kids, are a different breed of learner. An analogy I read was putting a racehorse in a corral with regular work horses. All these horses are healthy and good at what they do but the racehorse is getting nothing out of standing in a corral. These kids need a cohort. I will never forget the day in elementary school when one of my son's friends said he liked his class because it was okay to be smart.
Two, there are always a number of parents who believe all kids should just stay together and thus you will never have all the gifted kids in one class. There will always be a spread of abilities in regular ed classes.
-I don't know why, if the waitlists exist, that the district doesn't fill that demand. But it's probably because they don't have to (as another person here pointed out).
-No, it does not cost more to have Spectrum. Most of the teachers have received some professional development in teaching gifted kids but there is not a different curriculum.
-How Spectrum kids are assigned is one I won't touch because my kids have been out of the program for awhile. It used to be completely random from whoever was eligible and applied to that school. You do end up with some odd configurations (which continue on for years as most Spectrum kids don't leave that class). My son was in a Spectrum class with 6 boys and 16 girls for 3 years and then 6 boys and 26 girls for 2 years.
-Technically, the district could assign a school to be Spectrum but there are some very resistant principals out there so it is principal driven. My observation is the more the principal supports the program, that's where the better programs exist.
-Spectrum in elementary covers all subjects except music and PE. Why that changes at middle school is a mystery and why Spectrum isn't available in high school is also a mystery. Some middle schools do social studies, LA and math (although most middle schools have kids take a math placement test and every kid just gets placed and it isn't based on whether he or she was in Spectrum before or not). I assume there is no Spectrum in high school because of the availability of AP and honors. (There's technically no APP in high school either although APP students have an "in" to Garfield.)
I see many queries about why rigor like Spectrum can't be found in most classrooms. That's a good question to ask your teacher, your principal and the Superintendent.
This makes no sense, and I have been struggling for the past couple days with this. I've come to understand that even though I bought our house in the Bryant reference area, there are some bubble years, like this one, where some kids can't get in while friends across the street can. Furthermore, because we are on the edge of the cluster, we have fewer options than those who live in the central part of the cluster. For them, the distance tiebreaker works in their favor. I know someone who lives in Meadowbrook (John Rogers reference area) and got into their second choice, Wedgwood. Even though Wedgwood was one of our choices, I guess we were a few tenths of a mile farther away. So now my child is being sent to my friend's reference school.
My daughter's preschool teachers have been telling me she's bright and might test into Spectrum (or APP), so I suppose I should just get used to disappointment (after reading the other posts here).
It worked and their WASL scores went up.
Did we see this being piloted elsewhere? Nope, a great story of success that went nowhere in this district.
The good news is that many people who choose Bryant as their school also have the means to go private. Many families don't know which if any private school will admit their children so they apply for Bryant too. Once they find out which private school accepts them, they let their spots at Bryant go, and the wait list moves. It is not uncommon at all to move 21 kids.
Another piece of advice would be to call the enrollment center and find out which, if any, schools have a wait list where your number would be less that 21. If there are any, and the school is acceptable, move your child to that wait list.
And, lastly, it is much easier to get into popular schools at later grades. We live in Meadowbrook and when our son was in 2nd grade we decided to change schools. We called the enrollment center AFTER on time assignment and still found that there was space at View Ridge, Bryant, Sacajewea, Laurelhurst and John Rogers (we were at Thorton Creek). We ultimately chose Bryant and have been happy there since.
Good luck to you.
The Bryant situation sounds pretty dreadful (especially the part about the neighbors across the street getting in and you not). It breaks up and disrupts neighborhoods.
my interest is academic, but I should wish everyone good luck, and hope that things work out for everyone.
Just wanted to say good luck to the person on the Whittier Spectrum wait list. My daughter tested into the Spectrum program at Whittier, took the test in first grade to get in in second grade, and was on the waiting list for the next 4 years; she never made it into the class. I recently discovered 4 other kids in her 5th grade class that had been on the waiting list the entire time as well. There are just many advanced kids there, apparently. All four of these kids did not have a sibling in the school. Again, I see the sib preference for getting into a school, of course, but I will never get why there is sib preference to get into Spectrum as well. It makes absolutely no sense to me. I did get a letter saying that North Beach had room in their Spectrum program, but we lived three blocks from Whittier and ultimately decided being there was more important than being in Spectrum.