Seattle Schools Teacher Keeps Job Even Though He Left Students Alone on Field Trip
Update: I did read the investigation. Not good on any measure. The number of times Mr. Gundle said something like "in hindsight" he might have done things differently is deeply disappointing. The number of things done out of policy is deeply troubling. That the other teacher on the trip - it was her first field trip - did not question or confirm many details on the trip, either before or during the trip, is concerning.
It's astonishing that Gundle allowed someone's 19-year old boyfriend on the trip and left the kids without a group announcement (he says he talked to each kid separately), reminding them about the gender tent rule and allowed kids to drive other kids back to Seattle (one without a seatbelt.)
And, once again, we have chaperones paying lip service to district policies on field trip. I'm beginning to think that the district should have a moratorium on field trips; there are real safety issues here.
I realize this is a personnel matter but if you compare what happened on the Garfield choir trip to this trip, I believe the latter is much worse. And yet Carol Burton was fired (and later reinstated.)
end of update
I had only vaguely heard about this issue but apparently an investigation happened and the results are in. From the My Northwest:
It's astonishing that Gundle allowed someone's 19-year old boyfriend on the trip and left the kids without a group announcement (he says he talked to each kid separately), reminding them about the gender tent rule and allowed kids to drive other kids back to Seattle (one without a seatbelt.)
And, once again, we have chaperones paying lip service to district policies on field trip. I'm beginning to think that the district should have a moratorium on field trips; there are real safety issues here.
I realize this is a personnel matter but if you compare what happened on the Garfield choir trip to this trip, I believe the latter is much worse. And yet Carol Burton was fired (and later reinstated.)
end of update
I had only vaguely heard about this issue but apparently an investigation happened and the results are in. From the My Northwest:
A Ballard High School teacher remains on the job, even after an investigation found he “abandoned” high school students on an overnight field trip with no one but one of the student’s 19-year-old boyfriend.I have not read the entire investigative report (it's in the newsstory) but this is not good. I find the justification for Mr. Gundle's actions weak. They are not justifications I would expect from a teacher who is in charge of the field trip and the safety of every student attending.
Why did he leave them? So he could attend a Seattle teacher’s union protest.
Even though the Seattle Public School District recommended Noam Gundle be fired for conduct that put these students “at great risk…,” Seattle Schools Superintendent Dr. Larry Nyland imposed just a 10-day unpaid suspension and he won’t explain why. Meanwhile, Gundle still has his job.
On June 18, 2015, Assistant Superintendent for Human Resources Dr. Brent C. Jones wrote to Gundle to explain that the recommendation from the district that “there is probable cause to terminate your employment as a teacher for abandoning students during a District sponsored overnight field trip.”
Gundle fought the recommendation with the help of his union representative, arguing the termination was too harsh. After meeting with Superintendent Nyland, Gundle successfully lobbied to avoid termination, instead earning just a 10-day suspension without pay. He was also told he couldn’t host overnight field trips for two years, nor day field trips for one year.
Comments
Beaver Alum
-sleeper
The Greenberg case at Center School also played out in the media with very negative results for that teacher.
I have to wonder if the media attention pisses off the district and results in sharper punishments?
But...how about starting fresh this fall? Send a clear letter to all teachers, principals and school staff that things will be different from here on on out, and they will be held liable for violations of field trip policies. Tell them there's a new punishment scale for field trip violations. Spell out the specifics if need be: drinking alcohol or using drugs, abandoning students, allowing unauthorized chaperones or guests, allowing unapproved transportation, allowing unauthorized rooming arrangements, failure to provide reasonable supervision, etc., all warrant termination. Make the union sign off on it. Does the union really want to argue that those things are ok, as part of policy? If teachers won't agree to that, there shouldn't be field trips in the first place.
Do we need another set of chaperones to chaperone the teachers?
Unreal
How can he have been so stupid? How can the SEA have kept him on their board after he's provided such obvious evidence of his poor judgement?
A clear and uniform set of consequences would be an awfully nice thing, although I would maybe temper the "failing to adequately supervise" one to a somewhat sliding scale depending on what the failure was. Leaving the students unsupervised for 5 minutes is way different from overnight. Forgive me if I don't hold my breath for such a document.
Or do they just rely on students affirmations that everything is in order?
Yeah, that's worked really well.
On Burton's field trip a student with a known history of sexual misconduct was allowed on the trip, and an incident occurred that brought to light the error of allowing that student to participate without warning or notice to anyone of the danger the student posed, making the district need to explain/defend themselves. On Gundle's field trip, nothing bad happened, so no bad press, and no one taken to court. Burton violated a chaperone rule (that didn't affect or influence the student incident on her trip), owned up to it and apologized, and still had to fight for her job back over the course of a year. Leaving students unattended overnight is a huge lapse in judgement, and....10 day suspension? I don't pretend to know what an appropriate penalty would be for either teacher, but the differences between the two instances are pretty astonishing. Makes it look like SPS cares about PR above student safety.
http://stopsexualassaultinschools.org/about-us/our-familys-story/
Chaperoning negligence and lax field trip planning --
http://stopsexualassaultinschools.org/about-us/our-cases-documents/
I remember. . . . . .
Grandmother
From Decembet 2014- saveourschools blog..
"In 2013, the district revised its field trip procedures and chaperone training requirements. School administrators were trained on these revisions during the summer of 2013. The field trip procedures and chaperone training requirements are being further reviewed this fall (2014) to reflect lessons learned.
We are taking the following steps to ensure the safety of our students on overnight field trips. Here’s what parents and staff need to know:
· There must be at least two chaperones on each trip of more than 6 students including at least one chaperone for every 10 students.
· We will not allow parent/teacher chaperones to bring their own younger children on the trip.
· We require 24/7 supervision with bed checks in the middle of the night.
· We require chaperones to maintain proximity to the students.
· Parents and students are required to sign off on the guidelines; including the understanding that violation of the field trip behavior requirements may result in the student being sent home.
· Lead chaperones are required to provide training to each of the chaperones on the trip. · Emergency procedures for the chaperones to report student or chaperone violations up the chain to security, the principal or the superintendent/designee as appropriate.
It appears that some things have changed. For example, it's not even a matter of getting permission to bring any younger children on a trip, the district isn't allowing any chaperone to do it. This was an issue on the Garfield trip.
It is also my understanding that no chaperone has to stay up all night: there are measures that can be taken to ensure bed checks periodically throughout the night.
I also note the "maintain proximity to the students" which, again, was an issue on the Garfield trip.
"
parent
1) some student gets hurt on a field trip (not that it hasn't happened already but further damage)
2) the district gets hit with a huge lawsuit
And this is why the union has a bad name. They care more about the adults than the students. This is simply a more egregious example of that priority.
Finally, and I've been around hundreds of adults like Gundle, he cleary has poor boundaries with teens. He's treating them more like pals and friends than a supervisory adult. He should have never allowed the students to drive themselves, let alone stay on the field trip after he abandoned them for a protest.
This issue, once it gains more media exposure --- and it will, is going to be a problem for SEA/WEA. And it's going to be a problem for their allies and apologists --- I'm looking at you, Soup for Teachers --- unless those allies and apologists call out the teacher and the union for their misplaced priorities.
Woody
I don't see anyone making apologies. I only see concern for student safety.
The responsibility for what happened here lies squarely with the teacher. And Melissa is forthright about that. The 10-day suspension is laughable, but behind that is the union.
Woody
Soup for Teachers is not the problem. Supporting teachers in their work as the educators of our children is not the problem.
The problem is two-fold. Teachers who, for whatever reason, don't understand or follow district policies on field trips. I don't get it and anyone who has had a teenager knows that you REALLY have to watch over teenagers on a trip.
The other issue is the union protecting that behavior. Certainly the union can argue for the teacher's past record, length of service to the district, etc.
But the problem are unions - whether teachers or police or any union - that just don't want to recognize AND act on members who clearly violate training or policies for the entity they work for.
I understand the union is a brother/sisterhood - I grew up in a union town. I believe in unions. But on this issue - safety - I have no patience.
Its a fair supposition that SEA had some influence in the ultimate discipline choice for Mr. Gundie - not a proven one, unless that's been publicly reported someplace - but also not a big leap of logic.
However, ultimately, Mr. Gundie screwed up. Mr. Gundie should have been fired because the actions here were pretty egregious frankly - if that were my kid left behind - aiyiyiyi!
I think its human nature to be in an uproar about the kid safety issues first and then get into some kind of more serious reactions to the adult behavior exhibited. I don't see that as apologist - just normal human reactivity. Time will tell what the ultimate outcome might be for all "interested parties", now that its public knowledge.
reader47
As a Beaver parent, I feel Mr Wynkoop bears a bit more blame for allowing Gundle to scale back the trip, and for not laying down the law on field trips before this happened. Also the office staff has a responsibility to the students that includes, or should, keeping an eye on good but eccentric teachers like Mr Gundle.
I would also like to see Mr Gundle remove the dangerous potted plants looming over students' heads in his classroom.
The online news service reporting this incident from last year is so disgustingly right-wing, racist and anti-union(read their comments section, but prepare to vomit).
They are the source for the recent headline claiming the woman who received 200k for getting her eye socket broken from an officer's punch while she was handcuffed amounted to getting rewarded:
http://mynorthwest.com/323175/seattle-woman-is-rewarded-195k-for-assaulting-officer/
Kim Chee
As a community member & parent do I want the schools to be teaching students by their behavior that it is OK to do what you want as long as you act surprised there was a problem and promise to do better NEXT time?
Of course that may be the only thing the district consistently models.
The down side of protecting the employee's privacy is that it inherently creates opacity in the process. So two employees might commit indiscretions that appear to be similar on some levels but result in distinctly different corrective actions. This can lead to poor morale stemming from a sense of perceived injustice or favoritism. Especially if the more severely punished employee promotes a version of his or her treatment that doesn't paint the whole picture. But I, as a manager, have to stay disciplined and keep my mouth shut (even, sometimes, when I know there are downright lies being spread) about all the distinct differences and histories between the two cases that make the resulting corrective actions make a lot more sense. And I don't work with a unionized workforce; I imagine management's obligations to remain silent on corrective action process may be magnified when dealing with organized labor.
So, when I see something like this, I tend extend a bit more grace than the average responder and figure that there is probably a lot more to the story than what which we are privvy to. I am not suggesting that we blindly have faith that everything is being managed perfectly behind closed doors. I am suggesting that we don't assume the opposite and that vote we conscientiously for school board members so we can have faith that they are providing appropriate oversight to ensure these actions are being done in a way that makes sense.
- SeaDad
-HS Parent
Personally I will not do any overnight field trips. Don't get me wrong - I can't believe the extreme carelessness of some aspects of the Burton and Gundle cases and so I'd probably be fine, but at some point upheld terminations for field trips will begin and my career isn't worth risking it.
Idea - what if all teachers who are going to plan/chaperone overnight field trips have to attend a PAID district training on field trips (2 hours should cover it, maybe a 3rd hour for organizers to provide extra rules/clarifications not needed by support chaperone teachers)? That would force real documentation and standards and then both the district and teachers would truly be on the hook (although overall everybody - SPS and teachers - would be equally on the hook after thorough trainings). I say "paid" training (overnight field trip teachers are already clearly volunteering many extra hours so it's not about the $) because that $ trail helps provide the ultimate proof that a teacher was present and is now on the hook for "best practice field trip standards".
SPS could produce some videos too on overnight field trip standards (teachers can log in to prove they watched them).
Not tripping
chaperone
sss.westbrook@gmail.com
It is situations like this that make the general public wary about educator's unions, and rightfully so. But it's a shame because educator's unions do so much to facilitate quality education for students and safe and fair working conditions for educators. My union, the PFT, helps to ensure that the School District of Philadelphia abides by class size limits, ensures that teachers receive prep time (or are compensated if they lose prep time), work to make sure that every school has a counselor, protects teachers and other staff from bullying administrators, and many other activities.
It is the union's job to protect its members, but in egregious cases like this one, protecting one member comes at the expense of hurting the union's membership as a whole because defending this kind of neglectful behavior undermines the professional standards that the union membership should be upholding. If unionized educators want to maintain credibility, we have to set higher standards for ourselves and regulate each other -- or else people are going to continue to criticize our unions. Educators have to step up and say "enough is enough" -- this kind of behavior is unacceptable.
Although I think the Burton & Gundle cases were more just stupid decisions rather than really bad people/teachers (unlike some of the predator teachers who have previously been protected), termination from their jobs still would have been appropriate and helpful to the profession. Note that I'm not stating they should have their teacher's license revoked for these decisions (unlike the predators)... but as we often state it's good for student's to live up to the consequences for their actions so too we can as teachers. If really good (Burton sounds great overall) they'd land other jobs with lessons learned.
Bad cops and irresponsible actions by teachers, protected at all costs by their unions and peers, ultimately hurt the public image of both (in my opinion).
... and from what I've heard - there are a lot of social justice educators who are quick to call out the cops as racist who will defend Gundle and whom I actually heard defend Burton, meaning IMHO we are too quick to defend our own to the detriment of the credibility of our profession.
NT
Thank you for mentioning the police unions. I was actually thinking about the police unions when I was writing my comment, but opted not to mention it (for reasons that I cannot recall).
I'm a strong believer in unions, but it's also important to be honest about the shortcomings of unions and to address these issues even if it is uncomfortable.
I am a union person but the unions - all unions -hurt themselves when they protect members who either need help in their job performance or should be exited. That the police union won't come out and say that is troubling.
I have always said the only thing between us and bad guys is the police force. Bless them for the terrible work they get up and do each and every day.
But having a badge, a gun and a rulebook should not be a license to be a bully. To treat people disrespectfully and, most of all, escalate situations. I don't get this 0 to 60 escalation of a situation as we have seen time after time and it's deeply troubling.
It would really help if unions would openly say that they are working to help members become better at their jobs because they care about the people they serve.
Woody
skeptic