Friday Open Thread

Not sure what to make of this story in the Seattle Times this morning about a new group in our region created to incubate new types of schools.  Apparently the entire system of public education is "broken" and needs to be "blown up."  (Just to note, I think in this day and age, we might not ever use the term "blown up" about schools).

I have to smile.  This is the same ed reform party line that's been going on for years.  So what's this, a repackaging?
That’s part of the vision she shared on the first day of training last month with other principals and principals-to-be who are part of a new school leadership “incubator” in Seattle. Dubbed the School Foundry, the yearlong program has an inaugural class of five fellows: one each from the Renton and Seattle school districts, two from a new charter campus opening next year in Tukwila and another from an alternative high school in the rural Methow Valley Schools.
The fellows will spend the next year helping each other design schools that will focus on raising the performance of student groups that, on average, often lag behind their peers. Each fellow has committed to opening a new or transformed school in 2018-19. 
The article doesn't say who the principal is in SPS; I'll have to ask.

Who's fronting this? This group. It's a non-profit chartered by the U.S. Department of Education to oversee student loan processes. They have assets of about $1B and their top staff each make $800K a year. Who says there's no profit in non-profits?
The training is financially supported by the Los Angeles-based ECMC Foundation, the philanthropic arm of a nonprofit that handles student-loan collection.
We all know how good-hearted these student loan groups are so I'm sure great things will come from this "School Foundry."

What's on your mind?

Comments

Lynn said…
The program's first fellows:

These included Angela Bogan, the planning principal of Sartori Elementary in the Renton School District; Sara Mounsey, teacher leader at the Methow Valley Independent Learning Center; and Marcus Harden, a principal intern at Seattle Public Schools’ Interagency Academy. Also participating in the cohort are Jen Wickens who, along with Baionne Coleman, share one fellowship between them. Jen is Impact Public School's founding director, while Baionne is a new administrator at Impact Public Schools.

http://blog.eaglerockschool.org/school-foundry-incubator-launches-with-eagle-rocks-support/
Anonymous said…
Eagle Rock School is funded solely by Honda.

http://csr.honda.com/community/eagle-rock-school/

"...a mission to help the most disengaged students find their way back to an appreciation of education.

So what's the problem?

Toyota
Anonymous said…
Well, based on the first week of school I'd agree public education is broken. My son's 2nd grade class has 28 kids (I thought we voted for smaller class sizes for younger grades), my daughter's beloved orchestra teacher who created an award winning program was replaced by a band teacher who plays trombone and doesn't even know how to play stringed instruments, and my son was assigned to a bus stop 7 blocks away up a hill that leaves more than an hour before school starts (6:51am!) AND there is a bus stop going to the same school but on a different bus 1/2 block away from our house that transportation "ooops" missed. But they won't change it without 3 phone calls waiting on hold 20min each time + emails. Nope not changed yet. Keep emailing and calling. Oh & the bus is running 40 minutes late today. But here's an email about how we value attendance at school. Yup, that sounds broken to me.

Not to mention everything discussed daily on this blog! Overcrowding, not enough classes in high school, boundary changes/problems, not enough rigor, poor communication, RESMS should have been a high school etc etc.

I'd take a voucher or well run charter in an instant. I'm tired of fighting with SPS. I'm tired of them saying one thing yet pretty much doing the opposite. I'm tired of no accountability and everything falling on the parents. Why can't schools just run well?!?! Why why why???

So annoyed


What's the problem?

Well, how come the district didn't announce this?

And, as I reported, this kind of thing has been done before and, in fact, is the REAL basis for charter schools, not what we see today.

I have a hard time with wealthy people and non-profits deciding the vision/road for public education.

So annoyed, I'm a little surprised at the size of that class; it should be smaller. I would ask the principal.
I'm not sure I would call all that "a broken system" but for SPS, it's dysfunctional.

You are welcome to advocate for vouchers (which have not proven their worth in any state that has them) and, as for charters, well, they are opening up in Seattle. You can go try it. But you will not get the accountability that you think you might; charter schools do things their way and if you don't like it, there's the door. You have NO one to complain to especially on the types of issues you covered.

But yes, your last sentence is exactly what I've been saying for years.
Anonymous said…
I'm right with ya, So Annoyed, until the orchestra bit. I'm sure You realize orchestras are comprised of both string and brass instruments (and percussion and woodwinds, even!) and effective teachers might have any one of them as their primary instrument. Also that effective teachers might come from one district that doesn't have a string program and move to one that does - and that their comprehensive education and training means that's okay.

Now, I can't be sure that that's the case at whatever school you're talking about; maybe they pulled some random from a ska band on the corner. I freely admit I'm hung up on this because this is my area. Still, unless we've gone back in time and the hottest composer is Haydn, I'd recommend taking a breath and waiting longer than a week to assess this new teacher. The days of first violin as conductor are long past. ;)

-Pragmatic Xennial
NESeattleMom said…
Pragmatic--It's a middle school string orchestra...not a full orchestra.
Anonymous said…
VASHON ISLAND, Wash. -- The Washington State Ferry system and the Vashon Island School District have worked together this year to create a code of conduct for hundreds of student commuters. More than 250 students from elementary to high school age commute to the island from Seattle and the Kitsap Peninsula to attend school.

NEVER KNEW
Anonymous said…
NEVER KNEW
The Fauntleroy ferry waiting area is insane both morning and late afternoon with parents dropping off and picking up kids who commute by ferry. Tue traffic is crazy and I often see kids getting off the feeeey with backpacks being picked up as late as 6pm. It's crazy! Why are so many kids going to Vashon?

-what does Vashon have?
Anonymous said…
"what does Vashon have?"

What it DOESN'T have is SPS...

(and is still public).

commute compute
Anonymous said…
This is highly speculative, but: Vashon has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the USA. Could it be more appealing to that subset of the population?

Kran
Anonymous said…
"You have NO one to complain to especially on the types of issues you covered."

Yes, but you can vote with your feet, unlike being trapped at a neighborhood school in Seattle.

No Options
Anonymous said…
Vashon has well regarded public schools and some parents prefer them to the schools in West Seattle.
-NP
Anonymous said…
My daughter's middle school orchestra teacher was a trumpet player. He taught a lot of kids to play string instruments, and did a great job with both band and string orchestra.

Have hope
Anonymous said…
-
Seeking advice. What do you do if a new, inexperienced teacher has a total freak-out in class to the extent that your student never wants to return to class again?

I'm not looking for advice on how to exit this newbie teacher (who has no experience teaching the subject matter), but rather best way to approach this new teacher for best outcomes for all. This is middle school and a dangerous environment for all.

-StepJ
Anonymous said…
Interesting article in the NYT on "The Resegregation of Jefferson County" in Alabama using the public school system/opting out of it by forging new distrcts.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/magazine/the-resegregation-of-jefferson-county.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=photo-spot-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

-NP
Anonymous said…
I would set up an appointment with the teacher and discuss the incident that your child mentioned. Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances that you might not have been aware of, or it could be just as your child described. But I think you owe it to the teacher to talk to them and get their version of events. If you don't get satisfactory results I would take it to the principal. New teachers often have mentors, and the principal could discuss the event with both the teacher and the mentor so that an issue like that doesn't happen again or is handled differently next time. Just speaking to the principal doesn't mean that the teacher's in trouble, new teachers often need a lot of support and this would just help direct the principal to get the teacher the support that they might need.

Teacher
Jet City mom said…
More info about the ILC in Twisp.

http://methowvalleynews.com/2016/06/15/changes-coming-to-mv-school-district-this-fall/
Anonymous said…
I think it depends on if it is elementary school or later. In elementary school I would think you needed to learn some more- kids interpret events differently than adults.

This happened to a child of mine when they were a middle schooler, though, and with emotions hot and my child very scared, I end up disagreeing with Teacher. I don't think me going in to meet with them would have been seen as anything but a hostile confrontation at that point. But only because as she says I knew going to the principal was not going to get the teacher in trouble (indeed the teacher is still there and is doing fine; another child of mine has them, and they aren't my favorite, but it's fine), but rather get them mentoring and support, which I knew they were already receiving for other incidents. They were a second year teacher, clearly in over their head. My kid felt ok about going back into the classroom after having the principal validate for them that the story they relayed was a freak out, not a normal reaction to what was going on in the classroom.

-sleeper
westello said…
What an interesting and yet vague story. But are snacks in a parent room an innovation?

As for the founders of this proposition, the Times blithely reports they are part of a non-profit that does student loans. THey have $1B in assets and their top officers make $800K a year. Who says there's no money in being a non-profit? There is when you are working for the government gouging young adults on their student loans.

And what makes this group know what to do anymore than the Gates Foundation? Funny thing about wealthy groups and people - they all seem to know what is best for other people's children.

As for Mr. Petty who is leading this effort - no, sir, our system is not broken. If it is, why are the numbers of students taking the ACT/SAT going up? Why is the graduation rate going up, across all groups?

And any reasonable person would NEVER use the term "blown up" in this day and age when talking about public education.

Lastly, this is exactly the same nonsense that the ed reform crowd has been pushing for years but apparently they are now trying to repackage it.

Garbage in, garbage out.
Anonymous said…
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Travesty? said…
Many music teachers have the capacity to teach many instruments. Unlikely second graders are ready for Carneigi Hall. Why not take your child to the bus stop half a block away?

Anonymous said…
Pragmatic,

This is a middle school strings only orchestra and part of the job is teaching beginning students how to play and proper technique. The new teacher has already joked about how he doesn't know how to play violin and has instructed students incorrectly. Now the school/PTA is asking for parent volunteers who know how to play to come assist teaching beginning and intermediate orchestra. This is not right. SPS hired the wrong person for this job and once again parents have to pick up the slack.

Travesty,

Of course I'm taking my child to the closet bus stop, but the bus/stop has to be officially changed which is proving very hard to do. 3+ phone calls and ignored emails later the change has not been made. This is elementary. You can't get on and off at any stop willynilly. Not to mention transportation assigned my kid to the wrong stop in the first place.

So annoyed
Jet City mom said…
I wish the district would handle their own transportation, instead of assigning contract to lowest bidder.


When my child was in elementary, I drove her six miles one way because her assigned transportatiin was a taxi.
( she had an iep)
She did not like to ride with her father, let alone strange random people.
I was seriously concerned that she would bolt into traffic.


https://www.nysut.org/news/nysut-united/issues/2013/december-2013-january-2014/district-control-over-bus-services-better-for-students-and-community
NESeattleMom said…
No options, Many people can't "go private" . Just because some people say that, it does not apply to every family.
Anonymous said…
How is your school using the new advisory period (if added to the schedule this year)?

Our child said they did a paper folding activity. I suggested doing homework next week in silent protest.

annoyed
Anonymous said…
The ones who predictably threaten to "go private" if they don't get their way are the ones I am talking about.

Whether or not the phantom private school(s) they are threatening to attend would accept them is another matter.

The point I am making is this: The animus that is driving this blog's readers to make the threat is often the same as southern parents in the NYTimes article who are trying to secede, using the same coded language to avoid the "undesirables" from being in their children's classes.

No Options
Anonymous said…
@ No Options, you're off base. People aren't threatening to go private because they aren't "getting their way" or to "escape undesirables." The desire to leave is based on not getting appropriate educational services--meaning an opportunity to learn and not find school a waste of time.

As well, who are these people "threatening"? To state what someone may do in certain circumstances is not necessarily a threat. People don't go private to hurt someone else or to make a point or get back at the district. They go for a more fitting education.

All types
The Supreme Court actually did say that race could be used in tiebreakers but as part of an overall strategy, not singly. You can go read the opinion as I did.

No Options, you left out, "in my opinion." You have no basis in evidence of why parents make the choices that they do and so to smear their decision is unfair and wrong. Next time, say it in the proprer manner.

Anonymous said…
I said couldn't be "based on tie-breakers" since I have certainly read the opinion (as have many other readers) more than a few times. What I said remains correct.

In most cases, whenever someone on this blog (or at a board meeting, etc,) THREATENS to "go private," the context is clear: it is response to Honors for All, a Spectrum discussion, or about some change or threat to a perceived benefit that is already largely excluding historically oppressed populations AND may start including these excluded students. That is factual and can searched and validated.

Why people ACTUALLY do go to private schools is another matter. I am not talking about that. There are many reasons for people to choose private schools.

The THREAT is a tactic used by parents to keep and maintain privileges in this district. The code words and animus mirror those in the NYTimes article.

No Options

Anonymous said…
correction: threat to a perceived or ACTUAL benefit

No Options
Anonymous said…
After I digested all of the Asian names on the National Merit Scholars list, I took another look through and reflected on how many girls were on the various lists across the schools. We don't talk enough about gender bias and the issues girls face. I say kudos to all those hard working young ladies and I wish them the best in that man-eat-man world out there!
Girl Power
Anonymous said…
No Options, you are so funny! Haven't you figured it out by now? Seriously, the district does not care if families go private. Does. Not. Care. A threat is only a threat if it actually means something. So its laughable that you really think it's a "tactic parents use to keep and maintain privileges in this district." SPS is an equal opportunity neglector, as in, all our kids get the same opportunity to be neglected!
Long Road
Anonymous said…
Here's something I was wondering about: when we're talking about HC kids and there's a disproportionate amount of Asian kids, people talk about "cultural differences" and "parents must be doing something right" and "they must be the kids of smart tech workers." When there's a disproportionate amount of white kids, people say it's "fishy" and the parents are "buying their way in" and "fleeing diversity" and "you can prep for anything." The slightest intimation that these smart kids may get have smart parents is "eugenics lite." Is this not racism or am I missing something?

To clarify, I'm aware of the achievement gap, that we need to do better in identifying kids from a broader base, etc, and this isn't meant to excuse the disproportionate demographics. I just notice that there are a lot of assumptions being made about the intent of these families.

-Pragmatic Xennial
Jet City mom said…
Its not racism to be aware that socioeconomic status is often the biggest factor with academic testing.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-athletes-way/201504/why-do-rich-kids-have-higher-standardized-test-scores
Anonymous said…
This may shed some light on why it is so challenging for the ultra-progressive crowd to discuss Asian Americans in terms of high achievement. They call it the "Asian Tax." There are so many ultra high achieving Asian Americans that some are now trying to hide their ethnic background in order to gain admissions to elite colleges.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/us/affirmative-action-battle-has-a-new-focus-asian-americans.html?mcubz=0&_r=0

- bulldog
SusanH said…
Annoyed: Regarding advisory at Garfield, my son reported that on the first day, the advisory teacher said, "yeah, the teachers voted for this, but everyone has different ideas of what we're supposed to do with the time." So, she polled the students about what they wanted to do. Most voted for homework time. A couple voted for sleep. I think it's just become a study period. Which is better than paper folding, but my son would 100% rather get out of school earlier and manage his studying when/where/how he sees fit. He's in high school; he doesn't need hand-holding to get his homework done. The other benefit of getting out earlier would be less crazy transit situation, less competition with all the adult workers trying to get home at the same time.
Great News said…
Seattle didn't make Bloomberg's list of most unequal cities:

Most Unequal U.S. Big Cities:
1. Miami
2. Atlanta
3. New Orleans
4. New York
5. Dallas
6. Boston
7. Tampa
8. Cincinnati
9. Pittsburgh
10. Washington DC

That's actually great news.
Anonymous said…

"Its not racism to be aware that socioeconomic status is often the biggest factor with academic testing."

That is ridiculous. To be "aware" is form in one's mind cause and effect, gut feelings, past experiences, etc.

So one could easily be aware in a racist way.

If you don't think you're racist, great, that's everybody's own struggle along with all our other personal shortcomings.

It's this constant battle of parents trying to get an education for their children that is competitive in today's college market that makes people try to cover their decisions. I mean it's not so hard to defend public inclusive schools if your kids are say at Ballard as opposed to Sealth.

Every college advisor will say kids need to take the hardest classes at their school, so by extension kids should go the hardest high school they can. I find it hard to fault parents for giving their kids the best shot at success. If people who do it are racist, they would still be racist if they had to stay at Sealth, and if Vashon was diverse and still substantially better than Sealth, it would still be popular.

SPS needs to make every school inclusive and able to meet the needs of all students.

Work Harder!

BT
Anonymous said…
BT,

I believe college admissions officers do try to assess kids within the contexts of their own high schools. A student at a struggling urban high school, unable to access AP or other advanced classes, will not be evaluated the same way as a student who attends a private school such as Lakeside, Seattle Prep, etc., with a group of high-achieving peers, small classes, a team of college advisors, and a slew of high-level course offerings. They will not "fault" the public school student for not having that same kind of environment, and may even (slightly) favor a high-achieving public school student, who may have had to struggle against greater odds in order to succeed (large class sizes, less access to teachers, lack of adequate college advising, etc.).

That being said, I think it *is* important for students to try to take the most rigorous classes possible at their own high school - but not necessarily change schools altogether.

-parent
Jet City mom said…
Parent is correct.
Some schools may just go by numbers for admissions. Have a cuttoff for SAT scores and GPA for example, but many consider the entire student.
Not just their test scores and grades, but the school profile, what courses were offered, what FRL rate is, even what jobs and education their parents have.

You might have SAT scores of 1300, but that could put you in the top 20%in one school and the top 5% in another school.
If a school rarely offers much financial aid, the admissions and financial aid depts may be completely separate.
But at schools which attempt to meet full need, it is more practical to be aware what the financial need will be when admitting, as large as their endowments may be, they are still limited in how generous they can be.
In most cases, whenever someone on this blog (or at a board meeting, etc,) THREATENS to "go private," the context is clear: it is response to Honors for All, a Spectrum discussion, or about some change or threat to a perceived benefit that is already largely excluding historically oppressed populations AND may start including these excluded students. That is factual and can searched and validated. "

Certainly people have threatened to "go private" here but no one has said what you are saying, No OPtion. They have said that the district has NOT made clear what is happening, Garfield never clearly explained Honors for All and, if they get no answers, they might leave. Again, it is your opinion on their reasons for being in the program and why they may leave.

Pragmatic Xennial seems to be echoing my thought - a lot of assumptions being made.

Anonymous said…
We are considering private because SPS is roughly a decade behind the curve balancing basic supply & demand. Have been watching the capacity train wreck for 13 years (oldest heading to HS next year) and it looks like if you want any choices in your HS education you leave Seattle or go private. I grew up in SPS and fully intended to send our kids to SPS but I want my kids to have room to grow, not a shrink-to-fit experience.

These feels like an economic straw that breaks the camels back for SPS - wouldn't be surprised to see another wave of families out of the city just like the 70s and 80s.

-Invisible Hand
Anonymous said…
Disagree if you are saying better to stay at a school with scores like Sealth when there's the option to go to Vashon High!

Seems like you have a double standard regards students' need for a challenging environment.

HCC kids will suffer in any non-HCC environment while for the other kids it makes no difference the academic level at their school?

Huh?

BT
Anonymous said…
Who said that?

I'm saying that this district is, in many ways, worse than most other districts because it has no options.

A big reason it has no options is because most parents with power are just fine with the SAP. They are also mostly fine with the HCC demographics.

The district listens to those in power...period. Threatening to pull out your PTA funds at Garfield, saying to the district, "I need my way or else", etc. It goes on and on.

If you can get out of Sealth for Vashon, get out if you can. Most students who don't even know they can get out are the same ones who are most vulnerable to start with.

The only good point with this overcrowding is that, like Long Road makes clear, the district really could care less about your private threats.

No Options



Anonymous said…
Pragmatic Xennial, all of the comments you posted are from the same person that just posts under many different names.

It is not multiple people expressing racist reasons for parent decisions. It is just one person who thinks anyone other than her making educational decisions for their children outside of their neighborhood school is due to racist reasons.

No Options (see above) - You suggest that the current neighborhood SAP, proposed and enacted by Maria Goodloe Johnson, our first female African American Female Superintendent, was done to intentionally segregate schools? You didn't do your homework.

Game Over
Anonymous said…
MGJ said that black kids didn't need to sit next to white kids to make them smart.

Sounds so good, doesn't it? Clarence Thomas also plays that that colorblind game, too. Until you read the Brown v. Board opinion and look at the contined intersection between poverty and being African America.

When MGJ started closing schools, parents rebelled. When she started the SAP, parents in power said (and still say) amen.

That was then, this is now. Research OVERWHELMINGLY proves that highly impacted schools have worse outcomes for students compared to the same student profiles in lesser impacted schools.

Where is the pushback? Oh, yeah, blame the deceased former, former superintendent. Much simpler and easier on the privilege.

No Options



Anonymous said…
@no options-hard to follow what you're saying. Are you advocating for SPS to return to bussing students around to desegregate and achieve equity in education? Are you suggesting no option schools by using the moniker "no options" and does this mean every school would have the same offerings? No STEM, no Montessori, no Art school, no Experiential Learning, no HCC? Is that what you're getting at, or are you just beating a dead horse to complain for the sake of complaining with no suggestions of a way forward (no disrespect intended to MGJ)?

Bottom Line
Anonymous said…
no options consistently harangues about "parents in power". This, more than any of the other nut job statements emanating from this poster underscores the delusional nature of his/her world view. Has any parent, anywhere, under ANY circumstance felt powerful when dealing with the SPS?? no options is trying to push a perceived political agenda by using a repetitive deluge of false propaganda under a variety of monikers to create the appearance of a group of like-minded individuals.

-StopTheTroll



BT, who said that? Again, making assumptions is not making a point.

No Options, you have made your point about going private. Move on.

I think we are done now.

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