Running Start and High School Alternatives
Requested by Kellie L:
If you measure on a per year basis, this two year program is the LARGEST SPS high school at the moment and it is not part of the high school boundary conversation or any of the capacity conversations.
I have done a little more research and there are a few more dynamics at play, the community college enrollment includes Running Start as well as a variety of CTE programs and a few program geared towards dropout prevention. This is a huge aspect of the high school conversation.
If you measure on a per year basis, this two year program is the LARGEST SPS high school at the moment and it is not part of the high school boundary conversation or any of the capacity conversations.
I have done a little more research and there are a few more dynamics at play, the community college enrollment includes Running Start as well as a variety of CTE programs and a few program geared towards dropout prevention. This is a huge aspect of the high school conversation.
Comments
Please note North Seattle College's FAQs "Because we can’t guarantee your registration in particular classes, you should make alternate plans in case the classes you need are full. Talk to your high school counselor about other ways to meet your graduation requirements if you can’t do so through Running Start."
https://resources.northseattle.edu/running-start/frequently-asked-questions
What will happen when Seattle's current and very large classes of 9th graders and younger hit 11th and 12th grades, and the community college classes fill and/or are unavailable?
It is a wee bit challenging to get an accurate picture of what is happening in Running Start based on publicly available information. I have been keeping an eye on it for a few years and as far as I can tell there isn't anyone tracking this data at the district.
Here are a few little snippets
* Running Start information is NOT included in any of the annual enrollment reports. It should be a line item in the high schools reports but the Running Start students simply vanish from all of the official reports included in the Annual Enrollment report to the Board.
* Running Start is reported on the p223 [Enrollment Data by School Report] as an AGGREGATE number of Full Time Equivalent students. In other words, all of the PART time RS students are aggregated into a total number. As such, there is no way to determine the number of full time vs part time from this report.
* There were 773 FTE students in RS for 2015-16 and this increased to 985 FTE for the 2016-17 school year. That was a 27% increase and would expect to see another jump for the 2017-18 school year.
* There are no reports that break out these students by either school or the reported "reason" for going to RS.
* There was a new report last year that showed enrollment week by week for September. (I have no idea if Enrollment will produce this report again but it was a FANTASTIC and very helpful report that showed clearly and crispy which schools gain and lose enrollment during September.)
* For High Schools, Rainier Beach, Nova, Franklin and Cleveland added approximately 200 students in September. The other schools all lost students in September ... over 500 were subtracted from these remaining schools between the September and October reports. The net change for all high school was about 300 students but as you can see, the region variation was striking.
* It is reasonable to assume that many of the students who left for Running Start in September had not planned this shift. Students who planned on Running Start and completed their paperwork the previous Spring would have been accurately counted at the beginning.
As a side note, 985 FTE makes the Running Start program LARGER than several of the high schools.
Smells Fishy
It is dated 2011, but I hadnt heard of a change.
http://knkx.org/post/running-start-students-could-face-financial-hurdle-next-year
Is Nyland's family on the board?
Smells Fishy
realist
Smells Fishy
And students can be homeschooled but "enroll" in a school district for the sole purpose of participating in RS?
And colleges can award students high school diplomas? How many high school diplomas are colleges handing out?
And RS students still have to take the SBAC their junior year?
So, if a HS junior gets a 3 or a 4 on the SBAC, then the student can use that SBAC score to enroll directly into college courses without taking a placement test? So, basically students who get a 3 or 4 the SBAC can take part of college without paying tuition? And, added bonus, without taking up space in a high school?
So, it essentially deprives high-scoring students of a senior high school experience and deprives low-scoring students of a free year of college?
And RS students can take their college classes online for both HS and college credit?
And you can do RS while participating in a study abroad program offered by "your" college?
Hmm.
Sweet Deal
Running Start is intended to provide students a program option consisting of attendance at certain institutions of higher education and the simultaneous earning of high school and college/university credit. Running Start was initiated by the Legislature as a component of the 1990 parent and student Learning by Choice Law.
Students in grades 11 and 12 are allowed to take college courses at Washington’s community and technical colleges, and at Central Washington University, Eastern Washington University, Washington State University, and Northwest Indian College.
Running Start Students and their families do not pay tuition, but they do pay college fees and buy their own books, as well as provide their own transportation. Students receive both high school and college credit for these classes and therefore accelerate their progress through the education system. The exercise of that right is subject only to minimal eligibility and procedural requirements, which are spelled out, in state administrative rules. See RCW 28A.600.300 for more information.
That said, this is a legitimate program that has been in place for almost 30 years and there is nothing fishy about the program itself.
IMHO, the problem is that the official enrollment reports, do not include any Running Start information and therefore nobody is watching this piece of the puzzle. The enrollment reports have been showing the high school enrollment has been relatively flat for 6 years, despite the simple fact that the increases in the Kindergarten cohort started with the K class of 04, aka the graduating class of 2017.
The lack of curiosity about how there has been year over year growth since 2004 but yet, high school enrollment has remained flat is a mystery to me.
High School boundaries were originally drawn so as to allow about 10% extra space for choice seats. They way this worked in theory, was as students elected the option high schools, this would open an attendance area seat that was now vacant. That now vacant seat could be used by another attendance area student. The game of musical chairs would progress until one school was full and then a wait list would start.
High School choice seats worked this way for a little while but then Roosevelt and Ballard were over-capacity and choice seats virtually vanished. This combined with staff changes downtown means that choice seats at high school is becoming an urban legend, despite the guarantee of these seats in the Student Assignment plan.
I suspect that one of the "updates" in the pipeline for the SAP this year will attempt to take any the little remaining school choice at high school.
The irony here is that the choice mechanism, is a extraordinary capacity tool that would allow the district and families to re-direct students from crazy crowded schools to less crowded schools, but this is not happening.
High School is very different from K-8. Elementary is a homeroom based experience. Middle school has mostly core classes with some limited electives. But high school is an individual pathway for each student. If most of the students at a school are doing the same or similar things, then the master schedule is very efficient and there are more options. If there are multiple programs and/or lots of variation the schedule becomes less efficient and options are limited.
As all schools must prioritize graduation requirements, this means that the classes outside of the minimum requirements are the first to go. This is why so many families are reporting the inability for their seniors to get the math and science classes required for college.
Simply put, the priority for the master schedule has to be ... graduation requirements, all remediation to get students to their graduation requirements, and then anything over and above. This is why advanced and/or honors courses are often the first thing to vanish when the schedule gets tight.
We have several years of significant increases in Running Start enrollment as the high schools are less able to provide a college ready experience for students.
It is wonderful that we have this option and many students would be taking this opportunity, because is a fantastic way to get college credits and save a lot of college tuition in the process.
But it is the students that are getting trapped in yet another failure to manage capacity, that are being overlooked. Students who do NOT want to go to Running Start and want to be in high school are needing to do Running Start just to get math classes. This issue needs some oversight and at the moment, there simply isn't any.
Krab
I want to clarify that school counselors are the heroes in this situation. For those not yet familiar with how high school operates, high school counselors are the people who are accountable for ensuring that students navigate their "individual pathway" to graduations.
Because the State of Washington dramatically underfunds high school, more than other grades, there have always been students who were "outliers" and were unable to get a functional pathway. Counselors know this and they are well versed in a variety of alternative options to get students what they need.
It used to be a handful of students every year would run into challenges getting their needs met. It is not economically feasible for high schools to run classes that are not full. As such, if there are only 5-6 students who need an advanced course, the high school will not be able to provide it.
The current challenge is that there are now instances where there are more than enough students to fill a class, but that the constraints on the master schedule make it impossible for the school to provide that class. That is the challenge that is not being addressed by downtown.
Fix AL
http://www.k12.wa.us/BulletinsMemos/Bulletins2016/B035-16AttachB.pdf
Funds are allocated to both the college and the high school in proportion to their FTE status. The state will fund up to 1.2 FTE, so that a full time running start student may take ONE high school course (typically band or another specialty course).
SPS receives a small stipend (about $500) for each full time running start student, in order to cover the administrative costs of managing the program and providing the high school credits. It is notable that the high schools do not get any additional funding via the WSS and it is expected that the counselors will managed these students are part of their standard budget.
Here is what that looks like.
* Full time RS, with no additional classes - the high school needs to providing counseling services, access to clubs and sports, college and career ready service, and receives ZERO dollars for this student.
* Full time RS, with one class - the high school is funded for this student as a .2 FTE.
* One RS classes, with 4 classes high school - the high school is funded as .8 FTE.
This is a positive thing for students so stop raining on their parade.
RS Parent
Smells Fishy
North of 85th
There is no "raining on their parade" here.
Running Start is a fantastic option. There are lots of advantages here. There are many kids for whom, this is the best option.
The challenge here is that there is no light on how Running Start fits into the overall capacity puzzle, boundary conversation, Core 24, etc. Let alone any conversation about the distinction between students who WANT this option (and enroll in the Spring) and students who enroll at the last minute. Maybe all of the last minute students just took a while to commit, but the numbers are just too large and coincidentally coming from schools over capacity.
The first week of school should not be a game of musical chairs, where some students are pressed into leaving for Running Start to just get basic courses and other students cross their fingers that enough students leave so that they get the space that was vacated.
I have raised this issue multiple times in a variety of formats downtown over the last few years and the response was "the RS numbers are not big enough for it to be a concern."
Well ... 1,000 RS students out of total enrollment is not necessarily a large number. But when you consider that RS is a TWO year program, then on a per year basis RS now has more FTE students enrolled than the largest comprehensive high school. It is just just time that SPS looked at this program more closely.
As long as there are good resources these kids can achieve more faster than sitting in a crowded SPS classroom.
Parents need to be cautious because there are always those who aren't disciplined that could get into trouble in a self paced online program so keep an eye on them.
My2Cents
parent
These kids are knocking out the online classes in a few weeks ans scoring very well on the tests. I think there is a new paradigm in HS education that is more efficient that some feel threatened by.
RS Parent
All of the 11th graders will have RS as a viable and extremely competitive option as compared to geo-splitting to Lincoln and "RS Parent" made it clear how attractive that option can be.
"My2Cents" noted that online math programs are viable options with the possibility of it being a better option that High School Math.
Opening a new high school is incredibly complex and expensive. Running Start is just another piece of this puzzle. Without some better insight into exactly how many student are leaving and for what reason, it will be nearly impossible to accurately staff for opening Lincoln.
I am not threatened by opportunities. I am concerned about helping meet my 9th grade student's needs and also trying to help provide the high school experience they wish for. If the whole high school pathway changes, and classes that my student was looking forward to are not available, including certain language classes that are enjoyable in a community group, and also if certain music classes are not available at the level that is looked forward to, and also if certain math/science classes are not available in the future pathway, it concerns me as a parent. I hope my child's high school time will be enjoyable in order that he enjoys progressing to be a capable university student and on to a career that he enjoys. I don't look forward to huge barriers in the way. So RS is one possible option I am considering if it is necessary or the best choice. But it is not "high school".
North of 85th
And P.S. My kid can and has taken math online and soared ahead in rote learning. Still wasn't the best choice for my kid. The point most definitely is not "knock out the online class and score very well on tests." Sheesh. Struggling through group work, close mentorship, math in the community, peers with same interests - my kid needs these opportunities and they aren't going to be met online.
They would need the option to take electives at a local school if needed, but I think this option need to be seriously looked at.
My2Cents
You sound bitter, sorry to hear it.
RS Parent
No. That's no way to schedule Seattle public high school students.
North of 85th
http://www.digitallearning.k12.wa.us
Fix AL
http://www.k12.wa.us/safs/rep/enr/1617/17001h.pdf
I suspect this is the district's way of "dealing" with the capacity issue until Lincoln opens, 500 seats added to Ingraham, QA high school opens etc. The senior SPS administrators have all said no new capacity will be added until schools open etc.
When someone questions them about enrollment projections & capacity concerns there is no answer. This is because RS, online classes are what they are thinking, but not saying aloud.
-lousy plan
More mature HS students can optimize their time and also work a paying job to save money for collage when enrolled in a online HS. The prep rally crowd type probably needs to stay in a traditional HS school.
Things change some people just have a hard time accepting the inevitable. It's like Amazon vs brick and mortar, I think we all know what the future of public education looks like.
My2Cents
B-A-S-I-C-S vs. O-P-T-I-O-N-A-L.
SPS taking responsibility for BASICS.
And no, this has nothing to do with my student or others not being "mature" enough or "self starting" enough to handle R.S. or online. And I won't even get started with the social justice issues around telling kids to get the connectivity at home or the scheduling freedom and transportation to get their basic education needs met. Again: sheesh.
North of 85th
'I think we all know what the future of public education looks like' = "Tech Bro" or"Edupreneur".
Such a Republican tactic: Short-fund the system until it collapses, then declare it doesn't work. Privatize it. Make money! #Winning.
Gag.
DistrictWatcher
See Appendix B http://www.seattlecolleges.edu/hr/documents/2013-2016_AFT-SCCD_Agreement.pdf
SPS is relying on an outside organization to meet its educational commitment, is not hiring certificated teachers in numbers they should to accommodate their students, and is contributing to the exploitation of part time college faculty.
Do Right
There is NEVER going to be > 25 students per class in urban districts it's way too expensive to do. The state needs to push options that protect the state's budget and protects tax payers from run away taxes and meets it constitutional requirements.
Ample provisions can and should included online and CC options. Perhaps each district should have one online HS and staff it with the best teachers they can hire. I think it's is the future and resistance is a waste of energy.
My2Cents
"I'm a current high school counselor. Melissa is correct about funding. Schools lose funding for each Running Start course one of their students enrolls in. A student enrolled in a single Running Start class brings roughly 80% of the usual state money to the host school, with the other 20% going to the community college. It scales down from there. Students have to get each class signed off by their high school counseling staff / admin, and there are some additional restrictions about what courses students are allowed to take."
Also, blessings on our counselors and their huge volume of work. We need a dedicated career/college counselor at every single school to relieve the main counselors who tend to have a lot of schedule shifting to do.
Let's please watch the tone here. "The pep rally crowd?" Well, if you didn't know, sports means a lot to many students. As well, many students DO enjoy a traditional HS experience. Let's not put it down.
It is good to have options for HS but I do agree with North of 85th. Kids should be taking RS to either take courses at a better time or if not offered at HS, not because they cannot fulfill HS requirements at school.
Hard to know if this is just the district trying to hold on until LIncoln comes online or just allowing things to get worse in order to engage in a massive shift.
Lastly, I'm baffled by the idea that employers would be more impressed by someone who took online courses. The news coming out about online learning is pretty horrible and I have a raft of stories to back that up.
That is already happening and in many ways the entire point of this thread.
The State of Washington fully funds the cost of Running Start and similar programs. These program SAVE money at the State level as the total expenditure on the Community College is less that would be provided to school districts.
The same is true for online learning. I already provided the link above. The State of Washington has a long list of online course providers that are pre-approved for a fully funded high school option. I would expect that this is another cost savings at the State level.
That said, it is the lack of any clear picture of high school capacity for Seattle that is the problem. How many students are already doing part time online learning. The information has to be somewhere and this information is critical to figuring out high school capacity.
SPS is considering spending about $200 Million to convert Memorial Stadium into an additional high school after Lincoln is opened and Ingraham expanded. This is a huge expense and IMHO an unwarranted expenditure.
Elementary school enrollment has been under projections for three years now and I am willing to bet that it is under projections yet again. SPS has mis-managed capacity in such a way that the mis-management is a solution all by itself.
The state should be actively promoting all the options to families. SPS should be required to promote all the options to families. I believe SPS currently only offers online options to students who need to make up credits?
There's is a difference between being enrolled in the online school and taking classes online. There are even students that take band at SPS RS and online.
Perhaps offering late risers the online option could help reduce the high absenteeism in SPS.
My2Cents
My kid is pretty motivated. Neither my kid nor my family is part of any pep rally crowd, (so that was kind of a snide comment for people who like school).
Anyway, my kid does want to go to high school. That shouldn't be a big deal. My kid already is on the computer playing computer games or listening to podcasts for a lot of time. The last think I personally would want would be to have my kid on a computer for online learning, unless a class was not available and was necessary.
On that same note, my kid enjoyed his "flipped" science class in 8th grade. The head teacher videotaped the lectures and the students viewed them in the evenings and took notes. In class they did the homework and the discussions.
I like the idea of saving money by knocking out a few college credits, but not at the expense of getting into college. And maybe not at the expense of a solid, 4-year high school experience. So much in kids' lives these days is rush, rush, rush.
Thanks!
However, if you're in a smaller class, maybe an upper level class in your major, they tend to be discussion-based. Attendance is more important, but typically the class in more engaging so it's not as hard to drag yourself out of bed. And you're learning different skills in this setting -debate, effective communication skills, skills that may or may not be important later in your career, depending on what that career may be.
So in the case of high school, you can view it as an early step in this pre-career education. Are these courses ones you just need to plow through? Or are they ones that should start forming the building blocks of effective communication and discussion? Not all high school students even know what they'll need for their careers. This is why I'm not a fan of the blanket online approach, even if it really is the best option for some courses and some people.
-Pragmatic Xennial
For getting into college, the optimal mix of high school courses (including AP or IB) and college courses will vary depending on the college where the student applies. Large state universities, small liberal arts colleges, and highly selective colleges (like the Ivy League) are all looking for different things, so it is worthwhile to think ahead and read some college web sites to get a feel for what kind of things are most important for the schools the student might consider applying to.
For students who intend to go to a Washington state university, the opportunity to take community college courses with the tuition paid by the state, combined with the state universities' preference for students with a Washington community college AA degree, can be a huge savings in tuition costs. For students who intend to get a two-year degree as preparation for work, Running Start can provide their education at minimal cost. It's a great choice for some students, not for others.
Irene
I don't think the kids are plowing through the materials in a negative way. I think they get into the subject and don't have to stop just because a bell rings or there is some other disruption in class.
-Cat
Yes, almost a high school's worth of students, but most of these students would be seniors correct? Or do juniors also take running start? That is alot of seniors! Would love to know how many seniors are taking running start from various high schools. It's one thing if it is choice, quite another if they are told they have to leave their high school.
Also, the logistics of time and transportation satisfying some classes at high school and lining up other classes at a community college. Seems tough unless a kid goes to running start full time and does not attend high school at all.
-J
** Some students bored with their HS classes (for various reasons, some legit, some not) find it an option
** Some do RS for economics (free college credit, and towards the end of my HS teaching time I was encouraging it for students who will work hard whose families had limited $$
** Some students do RS so that nobody is taking their attendance (and a couple of them I knew did not graduate on time, although that was the rare exception).
** Some students do RS so that nobody is taking their attendance (due to having to work. Obviously it usually impacted their grades, but it did give them an option
** Some principals fight RS (even directing counselors not to sign up/support students for RS because, as sometimes correctly noted above, schools then lose a significant part of that student's $
** Some principals fight RS (one non-SPS school principal I worked for intentionally came up with an awkwardly unique school schedule that intentionally complicated the ability for students do RS very intentionally... and that principal is now a non-HS SPS principal
** Some counselors support RS as a student option, some do not
This isn't all about conspiracy theories for the district. RS is a great option for many... but definitely something other students should avoid.
former teacher
-NP
Egad, My2Cents. Ain't you a piece of work!
You're absolutely right that "online isn't for everyone." But you know what? Public education IS supposed to be for everyone.
"Students who choose to be self-motivated"? "More mature HS students"? "The prep rally crowd type probably needs to stay in a traditional HS school"? Ugh. Self-motivated and mature HS students can also be happy and successful in a regular high school setting, and they (and their parents) may prefer that for a host of valid and reasonable reasons. Also, some students who are plenty mature might have learning disabilities or other issues that make online education not the best fit. It has nothing to do with maturity and self-motivation. And seriously, the prep rally crowd? I'm not even sure what that means, but it's clear it was meant to be insulting. I guess if someone isn't as willing to spend their day in front of a screen learning in isolation they just aren't as good as you or yours, right? You sure have an odd way a breaking things down--there are those who want to and are able to do well in online classes vs. the prep rally crowd who needs to stay in traditional schools. Bizarre.
And what exactly is this "inevitable" future you claim some are having trouble accepting? I think it's pretty clear that online education doesn't work for all, so it's hard to see online becoming the one and only approach., and nobody is denying it has a role for those who choose it and can benefit from it. Pretty ironic that you used Amazon as the example, when they have been opening and buying brick and mortars stores...
all types
P.S. - I didn't know collage expensive. Doesn't it just require some glue or glaze or something?
all types
HP
The elite college population will reflect the country’s overall demographics only when schools 'blow up the system' of admissions, said Sheryll Cashin, a professor of law at Georgetown University and an expert on affirmative action. She proposed eliminating the consideration of standardized test scores and ending legacy admissions for the children of alumni.
'The elite schools are participating in and propagating the system of segregation,' Ms. Cashin said. Instead, she added, they ought to be willing to admit high-achieving students from high schools that offer few or no Advanced Placement courses.
And if you replace "elite college" with the program that shall not be mentioned, it sounds eerily familiar to some of the things we hear in blog comments here and on Soup for Teachers here in Seattle. Anyhow, I agree: something is in the air.
Hale is getting two portables installed in October, because enrollment was much higher than downtown projected and budgeted, but about what families expected. I think this thread is on to something because downtown projected a substantial drop in the number of seniors at Hale this year and the number of seniors was about the same as the number of juniors last year.
I have also been hearing from friends at Ingraham that Ingraham is also having challenges with higher enrollment than their budget.
I guess this becomes a self-fullfilling prophesy. Downtown projects a drop in enrollment between junior and senior year. The master schedule is built to reflect that drop. The seniors arrive in September without enough classes. Then it is a game of musical chairs as some students leave. Viola! Enrollment matches the projection.
- lake city mom
HP
My kid had 45 in their calculus class senior year. Physics was also overloaded but not as much. Some kids couldn't take physics. Not enough space.
HP
-Pissed
She would have liked to have taken AP Spanish, but considering third yr Spanish was taught by a sub for most of the year, she didnt feel prepared.
She also had fulfilled her state graduation requirements for the most part, so giving her more electives wasnt a priority.
I believe she had a couple TA slots.
However, she was accepted to all the colleges that she applied, so I cant say she was harmed by their lack of higher courses.
Yes agree. "High-achieving kids" from schools that offer few or no AP courses. Absolutely agree. Also, kids of all backgrounds and races, including white & Asian. There are all sort of advantages and disadvantages people of all backgrounds have in their backgrounds and family histories. It is time to dig deeper. We have just began to scratch the surface in these discussions, too often in my opinion superficially focused on race alone. For example, I have a disabled friend (with grit) who faced all sorts of challenges and went to a poor high school etc.
-P
I'll have to read that article; I thought most colleges/universities looked at the high school the student came from and discountfor its challenges.
"I asked this question the last time this subject came up, but I'd love any further thoughts from those in the know: How do colleges view Running Start in their admissions decisions? I always thought colleges want students to take the most rigorous classes possible in their high school. For example, would they prefer to see a high school AP Statistics class or a Statistics class from a community college? Is one more desirable than the other? "
--
In my daughter's case -- which I do not claim is representative -- we sat down with the head admissions counselor at UW *before* my daughter decided whether she was going to do Running Start or not. He stated pretty bluntly that Running Start was not for sissies, and that if we had any doubts about it whatever, maybe we shouldn't do it.
The effect on my daughter was quite remarkable. He had really pissed her off. She told me, "That does it, Dad. I'm signing up for a full load. I'll show him!"
She showed him, all right. She aced two years of a full load at North, which earned her a full scholarship at UW, where she also excelled. UW Financial Aid told her they looked with great favor on students who not only seek out the most challenging path, but who thrive on the challenge. I hope this is helpful.
-- Ivan Weiss
Ya think maybe it has to do with Trump and the awareness that we are not living in a post-racial society after all?
Could be
I didn't understand that Running Start classes could be more rigorous, and looked on even more favorably, than AP classes at high school Thank you for the insight.
Froyo
She reported that her friends at Hale raved about their AP Chemistry, how demanding it was, how it was "college level," and how they were all going to get college credit for it. She was taking Chem at North at the time, and after comparing notes, she told me: "Dad, I just didn't have the heart to tell them, but we were covering twice the material, in twice the detail, in half the time."
High school is high school, and college is college. Those who want college credit should get it in college. I get that Running Start is not for everybody, and I don't claim it is. But we thank our lucky stars for it.
-- Ivan Weiss
I think it is just a profound gap of institutional memory between downtown and schools about how the choice system actually works in practice. This is one of those times that I am really glad that I testified last year, the negative impacts to schools with regard to how enrollment was managing their "staffing capacity," instead of honoring building capacity and promised made to communities.
I had testified that TOTAL enrollment was going to be significantly short of projected enrollment if they didn't honor their promises and fill the buildings that had more than ample space. I also testified about how high school was under-projected and this dynamic was going to be very hard to fix once school started.
I am sadly not surprised to hear that there are now "emergency" portables being placed at Hale. This is something that could have easily been managed last Spring, if downtown had just been willing to work with school communities instead of being plagued by the worst budget situation since the levies failed in the 80's.
That said, there is a very basic budget practice that SPS just does not utilize. Downtown uses their projections to give buildings their budgets. The methodology they use for these projections is pretty standard for school districts nationwide. However, because SPS is undergoing so much change this methodology does not accurately reflect what is really happening in the district.
They way to address this typically is to just establish a baseline. The baseline would be ... "if everything stayed the same. what would enrollment be." In other words, if all the grades simply "rolled up" to the next grade and there were neither additions nor subtractions, what is that number. This is the number that families and building level staff intuitively calculate.
You then compare that number to the projections and if there is a big discrepancy, you can then have a conversation. If this had been done at high school ... the budget would have been wildly different.
Now of course, this "roll up" number is not going to be accurate. There is grade to grade attrition, every year after 2nd grade. This year is (once again) the largest Freshman class in a decade. The projections for high school should have been even higher than the modest increase that was projected.
Right now, it seems faintly ridiculous that it took so much public testimony to get downtown to move Center School wait list.
When enrollment information is finally released, I am certain that parents on this blog won't be very surprised. Ironically, downtown's stated reason for their plan last year was that they needed to protect the start of school budget and they didn't want to be in a position of Rif'ing teaching in October.
At this point, many of us have been in the capacity trenches for over a decade. At some point, the boots on the ground really do know what is going on.
-NW Mom
Husky Promise. She entered as a junior.
-- Ivan Weiss
SPS Skeptic
Momof2
How many families are jumping ship? Either leaving SPS for private (or Running Start) or moving to better school districts with a lower cost of living? Every.single.year, SPS families are asked to make some new adjustment - move schools, changes start times, change start times AGAIN, be pushed into Running Start...programs change on a whim or just dissolve...families who can exercise choices are probably getting out while they can.
On top of that, it's getting harder and harder for families to live within city limits. Older single family homes are being torn down to build $1M homes or make way for multi-unit buildings that serve young professionals, not families.
pushed out?
The vast majority of a district's costs are salaries, benefits and payroll taxes. Given that the average full cost of one teacher is something like $80K or $90K, it would be very difficult to find enough savings anywhere else in the budget.
What usually happens is that some schools are over staffed and others are under staffed. If we don't move teachers out of schools with lower than anticipated enrollment, we are unable to provide more teachers for schools that need them.
If enrollment really is down by 1,000, I predict that Ballard, Garfield & Roosevelt will lose teachers, student schedules will be changed and many classes will have to essentially restart in a week or two.
One question I have related to this issue is TA periods. Does a school get to report a student as a 1.0 FTE if they're assigned a couple of TA periods because the school didn't offer them appropriate classes? That doesn't seem right. I know my child's counselor was so concerned that she have a full schedule that she was assigned a TA period she never attended.
Will also be curious to know what grade bands are most affected. If it's juniors and seniors it's pretty obviously forced out to running start. RESMS is apparently over projections(is Meany?), so I don't think it's avoiding new schools.
-sleeper
But surely we can admit that finding and retaining good teachers is much more likely to improve a school than purchasing new software. Can't we simply invest more money in the teachers at all schools so all schools are adequately staffed at the beginning of the year, rather than label them an "expense"? Eighteen kids in a kindergarten class in an off year, or 10 kids in a Calculus class sounds like a great opportunity to me, not an unnecessary expense.
As a result of the penny pinching, Loyal Heights now has a K/1 split with 15 first graders and 5 kindergarteners. Wouldn't it make more sense to absorb the kindergarteners into the K classroom, resulting in maybe 24/kids per class? No, because then they would lose a 1st grade teacher, because the numbers wouldn't fit downtown's formulations.
-NW Mom
SPS outperforms the state average, which is completely the opposit of the types of districts you mention.
Seattle (and SPS) continues to become even more white in demographics.
If people choose to leave SPS because of the waitlists and dysfunction, who can blame them? Heck, I was a teacher and left because of their dysfunction.
If they choose to make threats because they don't want to integrate schools and programs, I will continue to object to that.
No Options
I'm all for integration of programs, schools, whatever, but not at the expense of a quality education for all. Is a diverse experience part of a good education? Yes. But only part. The academics need to be there, too. When program integration means a one-size-fits-all experience and/or the loss of rigor for some students, it becomes problematic. It's not the integration that parents object to--it's the district's unwillingness to address the needs of some students. But you know that already.
dead horse
Argh, I'm deleting your comment on that story.