Tuesday Open Thread
One of the most cherished memories of my childhood is gone. Shirley Temple Black died today at the age of 85. She gave laughter and hope to many after the Depression. It's hard to pick a favorite moment from her films but her dazzling dance ability was apparent when she danced with Bill "Bojangles" Robinson in the The Littlest Rebel. Or my favorite song, On the Good Ship Lollipop from Bright Eyes.
Good news - Denver did win something. But really, the kids in the Boys & Girls clubs of Denver Metro and King County ALL won.
Student brings iPad into class (against the rules), teacher takes it, changes the password and gives the student an equation to the new password. Right or wrong?
What's on your mind?
Good news - Denver did win something. But really, the kids in the Boys & Girls clubs of Denver Metro and King County ALL won.
Student brings iPad into class (against the rules), teacher takes it, changes the password and gives the student an equation to the new password. Right or wrong?
What's on your mind?
Comments
--Venting
We were denied the opportunity for testing, based on his MAP scores.
I didn't think it was supposed to work that way?
- North-end Mom
The AL office seems unprepared for the additional time required to score the CogAT this year (using the nonverbal battery is new.) They also administered a CogAT screener to every second grade student in the SE - and it appears they're processing those at the same time. (The results from that experiment will guide the identification task force's evaluation of our nomination process.)
And finally Stephen Martin reported to the APP AC in January that the scanner that reads the CogAT answers was not working.
The real issue here is that 5,000 families feel their children's needs aren't being met in the general ed classrooms. If changes were made there, this process would be much less of a mess.
--Satisfied
Why can't SPS share the troubles they're having with parents instead of leaving us in the dark? Why can't SPS apologize for the delay? Asking parents to wait indefinitely with no explanation just further alienates parents from the District. Perhaps fixing the underlying problems with processing test results is challenging, but the negative PR they've generated could have easily been mitigated by better communication.
--Venting
We got 1 letter last Wed (denial we were expecting due to sub 95% MAP score) and 1 qualifying letter yesterday. My guess is since they were swamped they mailed the denial letters first to give maximum appeal time...
Here's my question: is it worth appealing a decision if a math MAP score is too low? IQ scores qualify, MAP scores qualified math and reading (fall and winter 2013) last year but not math this year. Kid is doing APP math (2 years ahead of grade level) w/strong grades but stumbled on both spring and fall MAP math tests... (for different, stupid, non-academic reasons both times) Is it worth our time to appeal or does the MAP seal our fate?
--appeal ambivalent
Bingo. If only those people in charge could see the obvious.
The destruction of Advanced Learning in SPS has been systematic and from all appearances, purposeful.
1) Dissolve Spectrum, building by building (and weaken APP entry criteria), causing:
2) many more families to push up into APP, causing:
3) unmanageable APP growth and watered down courses, causing:
4) program splits, causing:
5) unprepared/untrained teachers (and principals), general teacher frustration and turnover, causing:
6) ultimately, a vastly poorer experience for the kids who need both APP and Spectrum.
Thanks SPS.
I know this may just incite people, but sometimes I wonder if it's even possible to understand the needs of gifted kids without being gifted yourself. To take it a step further, I often think that it's impossible to truly understand the needs of the highly or profoundly gifted without being highly or profoundly gifted yourself. It's certainly possible to appreciate some of the issues from an academic standpoint, but apparently that's not enough. People constantly mix up the needs of bright kids who do well in school with gifted kids. Sadly, it's the parents of these bright kids who do well in school that often seem to be know-it-alls about "gifted" issues, when they don't really understand the issues themselves. With that in mind I guess it's easy to see how staff keeps getting it wrong. It's just depressing.
NEP
Signed, Bright?
parent
Still elected against HIMS due to the pending split and my uncertainty about its impact, marginal reviews of some teachers, a poorly-planned HIMS open house that gave us virtually no useful information about the program, great reviews of a few teachers at our neighborhood middle school, and our kid's wishes.
Super bright kid, and we are muddling through the best we can.
Muddling
I really, really, really do not like the idea of a "quirky enough" test, which is how this "bright" vs "gifted" line comes across (especially with the somewhat circular argument about who is qualified to speak on the issue), and want school to be focusing on how fast and how critically kids can learn. Not whose quirks are worthy of being worked into the curriculum. If you can learn much faster than average, you should get to learn more at school, because what school is fundamentally about is learning how to learn, and if you know all the concepts before you walk in the door, you're being denied the very basic opportunity to learn how to learn. But the other personality related stuff- I don't think that should be codified.
I wouldn't mind if they moved the line up to all 99's, made the appeal system like bellevue's(only internal) but I am afraid that would leave a lot of kids unserved since there is currently not middle ground. And I think it is more important to capture those kids than shrink the program, though if know the commenters here would love that, and it would probably be better for the kids who would still qualify.
I wonder if this discussion would be better suited to the app blog.
-sleeper
Interested
I think there should be something both for kids who don't need an all city draw to get peers, and for kids who are one area advanced, but it would not serve my family, so I don't know. I hear a lot of complaining at the schools that used to have spectrum but don't now(and everybody who could left for app) but I wonder what the way forward might be for those kids. Are any spectrum families working to get something back?
-sleeper
Point taken; I am just sensitive to the people who don't like reading about advanced learning on this blog. But I am happy to keep yammering and listening here.
-sleeper
According to the appeal website:
Qualifying Fall 2013 MAP scores may be used to support an appeal.
If you're on the fence, it seems like an appeal just using the Fall 2013 scores without having to get a private test wouldn't take too much of your time. Then you can figure out what to do next.
Since single sex private schools, especially for girls - Holy Names, Seattle Girls School and the like are popular in Seattle, this seemed an interesting study to pass along.
Something more like the old IPP program, and based purely on IQ would work better for 2E kids, and for kids at the far right end of the bell curve. Combined with some sort of honors program for high achieving kids regardless of IQ, and raising of the GenEd standards (common core may be doing this?) would serve the educational needs of more kids than programs that require both IQ and achievement to be high.
Again, there is no excuse whatsoever for non-inclusion for children who meet the intellectual standards and with their 504 or IEP accommodations/plans can be in the classroom. There are a lot of kids in this district who should be getting advanced learning opportunities who have been shut out of APP by the administration and the APP community. Those days need to end now.
Yes we are pressing this through multiple channels.
2E Family
Also, when a family has been excluded from a community it makes one sensitive to single-sex classrooms. Philosophically our family has given them a thumbs down and it is interesting to see current research that shows it doesn't do much for kid achievement.
A new meta-study looking at controlled data reports that single sex classrooms do not help academic achievement.
Since single sex private schools, especially for girls - Holy Names, Seattle Girls School and the like are popular in Seattle, this seemed an interesting study to pass along.
2E Family
Isn't this what 'reform' and charters are built on? Isn't this what curriculum alignment was supposed to be all about? So, is any of this working? On whose word is any of this going to work, when the jewel in the crown of doing things differently is the Harlem Children's Zone, and nobody, nobody, is going to spend for another HCZ. Gates won't pay, not even in their own back yard. Poors gotta work, gotta live. Just don't do it here?
Westside
Or do you just mean poor kids? I'd dispute that, too, but different poor kids need different things.
-sleeper
'You think you never read about special ed?' I'm not talking about Sped. I'm also not lobbing anything at AP. They have their own fight. It's one of several, and if you don't agree with my observation, disagree, but don't misconstrue what I said.
I've read here since before the MGJ era. The majority who are posting are often discussing the details in how their AP child is under served, or don't have access. I don't dispute this. What I don't read are comments from parents, or even students, who are failing academically. It is these students are are the premise for a lot of the reform schemes we'll be paying for, but again, where is the Big Data that says new standards are going to - FIX - these students. In that, I think this particular cohort shares the same relegation that Sped students face.
Westside
You are right on these promises to under-served and/or at-risk kids. Big Data IS saying they will do better with these new standards, testing, etc. but really, they are guinea pigs in the Gates education test lab.
Feeling thoroughly frustrated with this process.
-- D's mom
We had a similar situation - our child scored high in the CoGAT (we are among the few who got our letter last week), but had a very low MAP math score. We had her privately retested with a district-approved math achievement test (Kaufman Test of Educational Achievement, 2nd Ed. (K-TEA-II)) and she scored very high. We plan to appeal with this information.
Question to Lynn or anyone who might know:
I have a SE 2nd grader who took the CoGAT screening test (which I wouldn't have known about if not for this blog - there was zero communication about it from the school). If she scores high, will she be considered for advanced learning for 2014/15, even though we didn't go through the traditional process? Or are the SE 2nd graders just guinea pigs for future screenings?
- southpaw
They were not, in fact, nominated for APP, so they cannot be admitted to the program based on the results of their CogAT.
In addition, WAC 392-170-047 requires parental permission obtained in writing before conducting any assessment to determine eligibility for participation in programs for highly capable students. No such permission was sought or provided for the universal screening.
So does the District simply go ahead and advise the families that their children are eligible, or does the District send them a letter strongly encouraging them to nominate their child for the program - similar to the letters that the District has sent out for years to students who get high scores on MAP or state proficiency tests?
For example, suppose that a district were in violation of the WAC referenced above. What, if anything, would anyone do about it? What do you do, call a cop? And what would the cop do, arrest the superintendent? The program manager? the test proctor? And what is the penalty for breaking this law? There is none.
The illusory nature of the rules is part of the culture of lawlessness. There is only the illusion of regulation. In practice there is none.
All of the Special Education families know about this.
-wsmom
I agree with a blogger who said:
Among the worst of the movies was undoubtedly The Littlest Rebel that starred Temple as Virgie, a little girl trying to save her Confederate officer dad from the Union army.
The point of giving the screener was to assess the effectiveness of our nomination process. They're having a hard time finding children in the SE who qualify for Spectrum or APP and wanted to see if they are out there and just not being nominated for testing.
I hope that they contact the parents of children who performed well on the screener and recommend that they nominate their children for advanced learning testing next fall.
We've been fortunate to have some moms who are teachers who have subbed quite a bit, especially in last minute situations. I can imagine it would be quite disruptive to break classes up.
NE Mom on 3
-southpaw
That is all I am going to say.
That's all I am going to say.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1612506348/
"The authors conclude by outlining the elements of a new agenda for education reform."
Chris S.
William