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Friday, June 15, 2018

Lincoln High School Issues

I have a new policy of cutting off Open Threads when I write the next one but I see at the Tuesday Open Thread that several people had started a discussion about Lincoln High.  Below are those comments and now here's a thread to continue that discussion on.

I'll just note that I believe parents whose children are likely to be at Lincoln should have an easy way to access current info on Lincoln including minutes at every community meeting.

From the Tuesday Open Thread:

Can someone expand on the Lincoln HS info on AP coursework? There is talk of AP and non-AP LA classes being scheduled at the same time (will classes follow the same general curriculum?) and AP students using a zero period for AP prep. Is this a means of serving students while classes ramp up to full 9-12 scheduling, or is this the model they're proposing as a means of fitting AP classes into a 7 period + advisory schedule??
Anyone? 

What???? Why would they do that? Does this have to do with HCC being placed there at the last second? My kid is not HCC and is being moved from Ballard. We just want a regular, comprehensive high school, where they can take a few AP classes and some interesting regular classes. Now they are just all going to be both AP and regular, so realistically not very good versions of both??? Come on, district. These kids are being jerked around enough already. I wish we could stay at Ballard. It seems like a really well run school.
Ducking District 

@anyone, do you mean you're hearing that everyone will be scheduled into the same class but that the AP students will do the "extra" AP part during the zero period, or did you mean they'll be separate classes but offered at the same time, and you either select the regular or AP version, but if you do the AP version you might need to take a zero period for all/part (?) of the year in order to prepare for the AP exam?

Does any other high school require students to take a zero period in order to take AP LA? If not, how is that equitable? If most schools can manage to teach AP classes during a regular day, LHS should be able to, too.

Also, what does that mean for other AP classes? If you take an AP science class, do you also need an extra prep period for that one, too? AP math? AP social studies? AP foreign language? There are only so many zero periods during the regular school day. (Actually there are ZERO during the regular school day, but you get my point.) How would that work for kids who want/need take 3 or 4 AP classes to get the right level of challenge?

And why are there no Lincoln planning meeting minutes posted since about a year ago? These are our BEX dollars at work--aren't they supposed to make the minutes (and agendas?) available?
Zero Confidence 


For students going to Lincoln. Ask for a course catalog. I hear the school will be offering ONE AP class.
OhMy

17 comments:

Anonymous said...

They are following Hale. That is the model she wants to copy. Not RHS/BHS/GHS.

20% of District Gr 1-8 AL/Spectrum enrollment is from the HIMS/McClure attendance area (biggest middle school feeders of Lincoln). Another 23% of the district's Gr 1-8 AL/Spectrum enrollment is from the Eckstein area alone.

2017 waitlists for Grade 9:
RHS 76 (borders Hale)
BHS 23
IHS 75 (borders Hale)
Hale 19

2017-18 District HCC Enrollment by High School Attendance Area (Gr 1-12):
GHS 14%
RHS 25%
BHS 23%
IHS 7%
Hale 8%

Methinks one AP course for Grades 9-10 is not going to cut it. Running Start numbers would be illuminating as well. Enrollment used to post a matrix of # of students enrolled in a given HS vs AA school. There was usually a swap of Hale students to RHS and RHS to Hale, IHS students to BHS, etc. Can't seem to find current numbers.

seeking data

Anonymous said...

The heat maps for Gr 6-8 AL/Spectrum and HCC eligible students provide good visuals. Compare Hale's area to Lincoln's.

AL/spectrum eligible Gr 6-8
http://seattleschools.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/District/Departments/Enrollment%20Planning/Maps/datamaps/2017-18/HCC/2017_HCC_eligible_6-8.pdf

HCC eligible Gr 6-8
http://seattleschools.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/District/Departments/Enrollment%20Planning/Maps/datamaps/2017-18/HCC/2017_HCC_eligible_6-8.pdf

Why wouldn't you model Lincoln after the schools from which it is drawing: BHS/RHS/GHS? For all the talk about being data driven, this district seems to willfully ignore some pretty basic data.

seeking data

Anonymous said...

How can you make it an HCC pathway school then create it in the image of a neighborhood school that is typically avoided by HC students?

What about all those parents who expressed concern early on that the principal would not provide a sufficiently rigorous experience for HC students, and who were told not to worry?

Where's Director Burke on this, since he's been involved since the beginning? Where's Sue Peters, as someone who seems to support advanced learning? Where are all those staff and directors who theoretically support equity, when this clearly provides a clearly inequitable experience for HCC students at one pathway compared to another?

all types

Grouchy Parent said...

Sue Peters is no longer on the board.

SPS is apparently going to bring "equity" to the district by gradually turning all the high schools into Hale. Then families who can afford to live in Queen Anne and Ballard and Wallingford and View Ridge and Leschi will finally be in the same boat as the families who live in Lake City and Pinehurst and Cedar Park. How equitable.

Anonymous said...

This is so great for HCC kids assigned to Nathan Hale, who tend to be lower income, because they will have a choice between Nathan Hale's non-college-prep program and now Lincoln's non-college-prep program. Woo hoo.

Many of the wealthier (and whiter) neighborhoods' HCC kids will have a choice between college prep at Ballard and Roosevelt and non-college-prep at Lincoln, and will rightly choose Ballard and Roosevelt.

THAT IS NOT EQUITY. THAT IS MALPRACTICE.

Meanwhile, disregarding HCC kids, all the who will be assigned to Lincoln are stuck with no choice: they must attend a high school that will apparently not be offering AP classes. That will look SO GREAT on their transcripts for college applications.

I guess the principals at Hale and Lincoln want to prepare students for all the manufacturing and clerical jobs that the region needs employees for. They obviously do not want to prepare students to go make into information technology, engineering, analytical, and biotech careers. It's not like the 21st century economy is based on that kind of thing or whatever.

:Sarcastic but Actually Depressed (SAD)

Helen said...

I am not sure anyone commenting here went to Monday's Lincoln meeting. It was really positive and showed how the school will provide a really great curriculum for college bound students. Some parents were even concerned there were too many AP classes. The newly hired teachers seem really excited and motivated. I think it's going to be a great school. I think Ballard and Roosevelt are great models so it seems like it is a good thing that Lincoln looks like it will emulate them.

I would really recommend going to one of the Lincoln meetings as it makes a lot of parents excited for its opening.

Helen

Anonymous said...

Gee, Helen, it sounds like you are recommending that this gossipy crowd actually finds out the truth before they spread rumors and/or innuendo.

You are way too classy and positive to say those things directly, so I'll take up the cause and cut to the chase:

Stop spreading lies and gossip, people. Until you have evidence, hold your tongues.

Deleted

Melissa Westbrook said...

Well Deleted, don’t you think the district should have info available on what is the plan and what is discussed at meetings for those who can’t go?

I do.

Anonymous said...

I have never been an apologist for this district.

However, the mob mentality that often occurs here isn't much better.

Treating rumors as facts, and using rumor to justify fears and pre-conceptions, isn't something I'm an apologist for, either.

Deleted

Anonymous said...

Helen, I went to the meeting and have personally met with principal Medsker. The "gossips" are right. I saw some parents who didn't want any AP classes concerned Monday. My students have a couple of the newly hired teachers now, and we have talked to them about the philosophy for the new school, which in their words is "Hale." Tell me what you have heard differently. I am very interested, but I am informed and what I have heard matches the above statements.

Maybe I'll just be
Shoreline bound

Anonymous said...

@ Deleted, if you or the district don't want supposed misinformation spread, how about sharing some info sources with us? Like meeting minutes from planning sessions. Like a link to the Lincoln HS course catalog? Like info about when the Lincoln HS counsel its ( if hired) did meet with incoming students re: course selection (if the did). If you're concerned that the info out there is wrong, provide the info that allows people to see that. If what you call gossip is the only info people have, they'll go with it.

HS soon

Anonymous said...

The last update on the Lincoln High "Updates" page is from 9/14/17. Really. Oh, and you can buy a sweatshirt. Posted on 6/14/18.

info needed

Charlie Mas said...

This continues to be a question and concern across the district and across the country: how to serve students with different academic needs - in one classroom or in separate classrooms?

For the last century or so it has been done in separate classrooms. That's why we have a 1st grade and a 2nd grade and so on. The one-room schoolhouse serving all ages is no longer the model for the bulk of education - public or private. Students learning 9th grade English are in a different classroom from those learning 10th grade English. To do otherwise would require us to believe that there is no difference between 9th grade and 10th grade English. Is that the case? If so, then why not mix all 9th graders and 10th graders together for English?

If we are to believe that AP classes are equivalent to college level work, then we have to believe that they are so different from high school work that the two classes cannot be taught together - which is why most schools make them separate classes.

If, however, we believe that AP classes are high school classes with a little additional enrichment and rigor then it is plausible that they could be taught together. Even so, teaching both courses simultaneously in a single classroom requires significant additional effort by a talented teacher. What assurances do we have of the enrichment, rigor, effort, and talent? None, and no meaningful assurances can be offered. So it is reasonable for people to be wary. It is understandable that some, the risk adverse, will not choose to accept those odds - especially without any recourse if the school fails to meet the challenge. It is understandable for all, risk adverse or not, to prefer not to run the risk.

Surely everyone can understand the value put at risk by merging the classes. I have to wonder, however, what is the value to be gained by merging the classes? How is this value different from combining grade levels in a single classroom? And if one is good and worthy of support why isn't the other also good and worthy of support?

At the heart of the question is curriculum - is the AP English curriculum no different from the regular high school English curriculum?

Anonymous said...


That is what they have been hoping to do with all of advanced learning. They did it with spectrum. I was uninformed about MTSS and but now that there is going to be a third AL task force I have no doubt that will be "their" finding that self contained HCC classes are not needed. The "good" Charlie is that they no longer have white classrooms and black classrooms in the same building at TM and WMS. Instead, they will have black and white buildings thanks in large part to the District's own gerrymandering and historical red lined areas with smaller -less expensive houses. A fine example of that is the lines drawn for Meany's opening. Students are bused from Leschi to Meany. Why? With WMS within walking distance.

And how about the honors for none/all classes at GHS. They said they would report back to us about that but nothing. Wouldn't it make sense to see how that is going (I am guessing by the lack of report - it isn't going very well) before we expect to do an AP for all/none program at LHS. You would think as staff was saying they could serve HC kids at all high schools they wouldn't make an error as egregious as this for LHS. Or was that their plan all along. Malpractice?

Truth Diet

Anonymous said...

Helen,
I was at the meeting on Monday and asked the new Assistant Principal directly if ELA would be offered as non- AP ONLY during school hours. He said that is definitely on the table and the route they'd like to take. That they were talking to the AP board (or governing body) about how they could meet requirements with AP part before or after school.

So, if students want AP ELA, then they need to commit to a zero period to get that content.

Not a rumor, not gossip, but EXACTLY how it was written on the handouts that were provided. And how a school leader confirmed it. AP offered as a zero period option.

Signed,
Getting a rental in Ballard

Melissa Westbrook said...

Getting a Rental, funny you should sign that way as I was recently asked if Enrollment still checks addresses if people report violations. Nope. I’d have to check but I don’t even think it’s in the Enrollment policies and procedures. And naturally, if you area top athlete, you can go anywhere.

Next time, a two-word name, that’s our policy.

Anonymous said...

Forcing students to take a zero period if they want AP? Talk about rationing rigor!

Is that consistent with state law re: basic education for HC students?

How is that equitable?

I hope the Colrge Board says no. Actually, I hope our Board of Directors shoots this idea down before that.

Cockamamie