Tuesday Open Thread
Sad news to report; a Franklin High senior was shot and killed while hanging with friends in a park and telling ghost stories. From the Franklin website:
As you are aware, soon-to-be Franklin graduate Ryan Dela Cruz, was fatally shot early Saturday morning. All accounts suggest he was at Martha Washington Park with friends and was mortally wounded by random gunfire.I hope to join this effort on Friday.
Our students are heartbroken, as you can imagine.
Ryan’s father describes his son as a dreamer. Ryan had his heart set on joining the United States Marine Corps. He looked forward to being part of something bigger than himself and to serving both his community and country. Our students believe that Friday’s Call to Action helps to merge Ryan’s dream into Martin King’s dream of a nonviolent, beloved community.
In the true spirit of the Franklin mission, our students and staff plan to move through the grieving process in several ways. One of the ways in which they wish to honor Ryan’s life while also reinforcing our missing “toward a more peaceful and productive society” is a Call to Action to “keep the south end safe”. Far too many lives have been senselessly lost to gun violence.
This Friday, as part of our campus day celebration, we plan stand at MLK Blvd/Rainier Ave S intersection and extend down Rainier Ave with messages of nonviolence. We will be wearing orange ribbons and t-shirts, the national anti-gun violence campaign color, holding signs, and requesting all who pass by to proactively work toward greater south end safety. We anticipate that we will be lining the streets near 11:00 am.
A really thoughtful and important piece of writing about why teachers are rising up from Known blog. Not might be exactly for the reasons you might think.
The window for opting out of Naviance has opened. From the district:
The opt out window for Fall 2018 began yesterday and will continue through 6/22. Families can enter the Source and update their preferences to opt out of Naviance.
What's on your mind?
Comments
Geez
If you don't care about creating hassles for JSCEE (and that's pretty understandable), you can also think about the students on the waitlists. There's at least a possibility that waitlists will move and more students will get their desired assignment if people at the desired school are leaving and let SPS know sooner rather than later.
At first glance it sees absurd that SPS doesn't collect that information when you leave (or when they follow up with you after your kid doesn't show up in the fall, if they bother?). Then you remember that SPS really doesn't give a darn...which is why people often leave in the first place.
outta here
Geez
https://www.seattleschools.org/cms/One.aspx?portalId=627&pageId=20963695#Audit & Finance Committee
The Audit and Finance Committee had a meeting on June 5th. According to the agenda, the committee will discuss internal audits. The following departments are to report to the board: Budget and Finance, Human Resource, Capital Projects and Curriculum and Instruction. I can't find the audits. Anyone?
https://www.seattleschools.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/District/Departments/School%20Board/committees/A&F/2017-18/June%205%202018%20Audit%20Quarterly_Agenda.pdf
Also, the idea that out of anger and frustration at SPS people might not be willing to inform the district they are withdrawing their child makes me sad. It just screws other kids. And the current system is frustrating. The waitlist dissolves on August 31st, and then when a student who is expected at a school doesn't show up when school starts, their spots is just vacant. Meanwhile it may have been really important to the next kid on the list for that school.
-GLP
The window to opt out appears to only be from June 4 through June 22, so the clock has already started! Parents, you should be complaining to the Board about this, because they dug in and insisted on allowing families to opt out, and a 2-week window in June is NOT good enough!
If you do not opt your children out, our district will be sending Hobsons, Inc. a variety of detailed information about your children, including demographic data (ethnicity, gender, etc.), academic records, and frankly we don't know what all else because the full extent of what will data be shared has not been made public. You can see some info here: SPS Naviance, including the very short opt-out window.
Unbelievable.
mixed messages
What are the pluses and minuses of either opting in or out?
- North central
https://seattleducation.com/2017/10/03/naviance-not-so-transparent-cooking-up-data-starting-in-kindergarten/
Here's the letter Hobson's sent declaring their third party providers they share information with for Colorado. The list includes Gallup Strengths Explorer, Roadtrip Nation, Sallie Mae, and TeenLife Media. Apparently some information about all students is shared with those.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7epgdVXe0gKZ0Q4SFJadE0zdUNlLVVCVzB6M19qemxmcVI0/view
And then there are a bunch of add ons, including National Student Clearinghouse about which it says: "Naviance Alumni Tracker allows high schools to measure college enrollment and graduation rates for high school classes and individual students. This intelligence provides a benchmark for college readiness initiatives and insights about how to improve."
I find that one kind of creepy.
from their privacy policy,
"
Grades K-2: Grade and teacher name
Grades 3-5: Last name, unique ID number, grade and teacher name
Grades 6-12: Last name, unique ID number, gender, class year and district campus
"
SSP can add other things and they mention ethnicity. And for college planning grades and transcripts they use that, so I've heard, to provide data on gpa's and test scores that kids need to get into colleges.
from SPS website,
"For students to utilize the college application support tools in Naviance, some student demographic and academic records need to be shared. This may include gender, ethnicity, and transcripts. Students will also have the opportunity to add information about themselves when developing their high school and beyond plan and using other college and career exploratory resources within the Naviance tool."
I know they have it at Holy Names and the parents love it.
15
So yes, I do not trust SPS to keep my child's digital data safe.
-NW
http://saveseattleschools.blogspot.com/2017/11/naviance-i-have-some-questions.html#more
In rereading that thread, I note the support from Garfield counselors and I'll have to follow up on that.
Naviance is not part of any graduation requirement except that I believe districts have to prove some level of college/career counseling (which I suspect is very loose).
If you opt-in, you allegedly get a lot of info on colleges, scholarships, etc. Frankly, I'm not sure it's worth selling your kid's data (and that's what you are doing if you opt in because Naviance then gives that data to a plethora of groups/companies). I would suggest looking closely at what will be done with the data.
To note, staff really want the Board to okay more data. I will have more on this in my next thread on discussions at C&I including this one.
I will verify but I believe everyone is enrolled unless they opt out in two timeframes - the next two weeks until June 22nd and one week in September.
15, it's not paranoia. It's wanting to know who knows what about your child. And, per my first thread, Holy Names is NOT using Naviance as SPS will. I know because I called and talked to a very nice guidance counselor at Holy Names. They only use it for Common Application purposes.
NW, the new Technology Advisory Committee, which I am a member of, will try to find ways that make parents feel confident that they know what is happening in their child's school around use of technology and protecting student data.
I believe it is a parent's right to protect their child's data privacy. If that is not a worry to you, fine, but every has a different parenting outlook. I believe schools should be required to list what technology is being used in each classroom, what data a child puts in for each website, why this is being used and what outcomes the teacher will be able to provide to parents.
The thing is, we're talking about minors. Some of these kids will be entering the job market in the mid 2030s, maybe even later if they get a graduate degree.
There are a lot of potential problems to SPS making decisions about what information gets shared about them. Especially for kids whose families are NOT in a good position to safeguard their data. If a kid has a parent who works in the tech sector and can deal with all the security settings and opt out forms and password managers and teaching kids to use screen names that are not their actual name and helping them learn how to set up secure passwords and live a relatively safe digital life, bully for those kids. But what about kids whose parents are recent immigrants who don't speak English or don't have internet access at home or are subsumed in mental health problems they are self-medicating with a drug addiction? What about those kids?
If Naviance is using an alumni tracker which will allow "high schools to measure college enrollment and graduation rates for high school classes and individual students," don't you think they're going to figure out that kids who flunk a class in 9th grade are less likely to do well in college? If you're the kid who does that but then turns things around, it's pretty easy to see this Naviance thing not panning out for you. Does Naviance want what's best for the students? Do they want them to become fulfilled, satisfied, productive adults? Or do they want to sell actuarial odds about whether the kid will be a good credit risk at the age of 25? How do you know? And although the Hobsons Corporation says one thing now, who's to say they won't change? After all, we're talking about the 2030s.
What I would like to know is if the district has considered this Naviance opt out window using Policy No. 0030. If there is discrimination in schools (high school -> college), then it seems like handing colleges specific information about which students are actuarially viewed as statistically less likely to succeed in college would go against Policy No. 0030 which is supposed to ensure all students regardless of race or class graduate from Seattle Public Schools ready to succeed in a racially and culturally diverse local, national, and global community.
It seems like there is a lot of leeway for the Hobsons Corp. to use this Naviance information to perpetuate discriminatory practices even well beyond a student's tenure within Seattle Public Schools. Because Naviance doesn't delete the data once the students graduate. They can use this data to measure college graduation rates for individual students based on data they collect as early as kindergarten. They think career planning starts in kindergarten. So, which kids look less interesting to future employers based on how they're doing in kindergarten? Do you really want the Hobsons Corporation making those calls? Maybe they have a kid's best interest at heart, or maybe they don't.
I suspect this crazy-short opt out window disadvantages some families in the district more than other families. What does Policy No. 0030 have to say about this?
college bound
Make no mistake, Naviance is in it to be able to make money selling kids data. How much that is worth to parents - and how much data will be out there in the ether that your child cannot get back - is the question.
I have seen it in action for private schools and it is a game changer when it comes to applying to college. It allows you to see who got in where from your school with comprable GPA/test scores. I have no understanding as to why you would use it before high school though.
APP dad
Also staff will be able to see who applied and who hasnt and help them figure it out. Focusing their time on the kids that need it because they can find them instead of guessing or making assumptions. Lakeside, Lake Washington, Bellevue etc and schools across the country use this tool, Tech Seattle once again all scary and full of crap. You don't want to tell the district your leaving to a school who has this tool but want to act like you don't want the rest of us to have this tool. Leave then, and when you leave quite commenting on this blog about schools you aren't apart of. I want my kids to know what I don't know.
As for security if your kid has a phone with snap chat and Instagram your kids has no privacy so this really doesn't matter. That will impact job prospects, not that they applied to college in high school. Can we for once focus on something positive?
https://youtu.be/7wv5Oea3Fg8
https://www.shorelineschools.org/Page/1404
This would be a welcome service for my student in seeing what other kids needed to gain acceptance to colleges.
BB
First, @mixed messages. It’s not just next year’s juniors. The eventual plan is that they enroll kids into these services starting in 8th grade. There was some discussion about waiting with the youngest kids, but I’m not sure where that stands at the moment. As far as I understand it, individual schools aren’t able to set their own rules because this is all being managed from downtown, from the main district student databases.
As for SPS “keeping your child’s digital data safe”, with the whole Naviance set of contracts, it’s not just SPS you have to trust, but more than 10 other companies that are all getting at least some amount of data directly from district databases. People should be wary of this entire package, and a 2-week window to opt-out in June is not okay. Everyone needs to pass the word quickly to all their friends and family to at least make sure everyone is going into this with their eyes wide open.
But Melissa, where is the information on another opt-out opportunity is September? The district page linked above is pretty clear about this only being available during the June 4 to June 22 window.
Also, why can't students opt themselves out? The system they've put in place requires parents to be fluent in English, have created a Source account, understand how to use it, and try to understand what this all means in a very short amount of time. Paper forms that come out during the fall would be a much better system, though there still should be more time for parents to understand what it all means.
Unfortunately, if the only data Hobsons gets is a child’s ID# and grade, then they won’t be able to use the tools that help with the actual college applications. It’s not clear to me how much that’s worth, but it should be something each and every family weigh for themselves, especially when that data is married to all the other personality profiling that SPS is contracting as part of this process.
Question: If parents don’t opt out, then we know some student data will be made available to the various companies participating in these contracts, however at that point, can your child refuse to sign in and take these surveys and other data grabs? Students should never feel compelled to engage in online surveys and such. I don’t know if students will be obligated to use all the tools if they don’t opt out.
SPS is not just signing a single data sharing contract with Hobsons, but an entire set of contracts with a bunch of companies, around 10 of them total. The contracts are not necessarily the same as far as who gets what data, nor are the restrictions, retention policies, etc. all going to be the same. It’s complex.
The other companies involved are doing a lot of personality profiling (yes, really), among other more seemingly benign things like tracking service hours. Parents really need to understand that when personality profiles of your children are being created and used to help “guide” them to the “right” colleges where they can go to school with others that are “just like them”, that this is the worst kind of tracking. The products themselves use the “Do What You Are” theme. Yes, these companies want to decide what you should do with your life based on personality profiles when you’re 13 or 14 years old!
So what is Hobsons’ actual business model? Hobsons sells several different products, of which Naviance is only one. It’s part of their data collection branch. The other products, like Radius, Intersect, Starfish, are sold to colleges. So they can choose which of your kids will see advertisements for their schools. Essentially this is just like google or facebook business models, with the huge difference that they’re targeting children, and using services embedded in the school systems to make it “feel okay”. Hobsons may be telling the truth when they say they don’t actually sell your childrens’ data (directly), but at the end of the day Naviance exists to gather data about your children, and then sell access to their eyeballs.
Here are a couple quotes directly from their site:
“Delivering personalized, relevant information to the right student at the right time is crucial to finding best-fit students and keeping them interested.”
“It’s no longer enough to just increase the number of applications coming into your institution. It’s about making sure the right students are applying to ensure student success and retention through strategic enrollment management.”
For those who can’t read between the lines, this is tracking, plain and simple. I’m pretty sure most families in Seattle are opposed to that.
Please note that what you’re talking about can be done without any identifying information, demographics, psychological profiles, etc. Interesting data can be gleaned in a fully anonymous way. I know, I’ve played around looking at the same charts. It doesn’t excuse all the other shady and morally-questionable stuff happening.
Opting out
It should be noted that the city provided variances for charter schools and did so in a manner that is/was not consistent with Seattle's laws.
I don't expect transparency from the city.
TIA,
Krab
Please read my comments in full; I said this.
I will just say again that your child's information is valuable; don't just give it away. But maybe they will come to you in 20 years and ask why you did that.
JB, I heard about the week in September at a committee meeting (and I'm trying to get that thread up but my iPad was wonky today.)
Director Burke seemed to think a one-time "do you want to opt out" is okay. I don't.
(Again, he said this at a committee meeting.)
Opting Out, that was supposed to be fixed. Try again, and if that doesn't work, let me know (sss.westbrook@gmail.com).
Krab, I believe this is year to year so you should be able to opt in when you want to.
Please note, you don't need Naviance to use the Common App.
I do not work for Naviance; I'm concerned that my voice speech recognition has Naviance as an item. But right now if you're telling me student names arent identified to test scores / GPA. I don't give a flip.
Again I am glad I have walked the terrible terrible terrible John Stanford center nothing good comes from that but if you can't tell me that my child is going to be identified beyond the data I don't care.
I will welcome any information that says what we're offering and Seattle Public Schools is different from holy names u-prep SAS, Etc. And at that point I will ask why. I will ask superintendent Niland why. I will ask Michael Tully why.
We aren't a private school but if we're going to Breathe Again a private school tool that has been successfully placing University students then we should have the same tool.
app dad
We should have private school HS Naviance. If not why not? I thought that is what we got. Nyland should have to return any commissions he received.
app dad
"But right now if you're telling me student names arent identified to test scores / GPA. I don't give a flip."
No idea what this means. No one has said anything about test scores.
Yeah, a real person is nearly always preferable to tech and your voice recognition comments show that.
"I do not want my student(s) to access Naviance. I understand that my student/student's data will not be loaded to Naviance and my student(s) will be given an alternative activity to meet the high school and beyond graduation requirement."
"It has been a taxing several weeks at Seattle City Hall. There have been rollouts of a new $636 million education levy, $200 Waterfront Improvement District, and the highly controversial head tax.
And it all comes on the heels of voters approving the expensive Sound Transit 3 (ST3) measure and $930 million transportation levy."
https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/seattle-residents-feeling-taxed-out/281-562082688
IMO, the city would be smart not to ask for an enormous increase. The city spent $81M to provide approximately 2000 students with prek. The cost of a comprehensive high school with 2000 students costs about $13M per year. The city must do a better job with taxpayer funds.
Regarding the upcoming SEA contract: Washington state lawmakers provided a framework for teacher salaries. The district will be fine next year, but the following year, the district is expecting a precipitous drop in revenue. The district and board would be smart to stay within the state framework. Otherwise, I can't imagine lawmakers would be sympathetic to offering the district additional funds.
If a low-performing student in SPS doesn't end up in HCC, that's not going to impact their college options. However, if a low-performing student is fully tracked via Naviance, it likely will.
I wonder when FWIW (or some version thereof) will chime in and lead the charge against Naviance?
all types
If it's "tracking" to tell a kid with a 3.0 and no activities that they won't be a good candidate for Harvard, then maybe that's ok.
asdf
college bound
would you be so kind as to guide us through the .gov website you referenced?
I can't locate the SAT/GPA info for admitted students. That is what I'm interested in from Naviance like the Holy Names kids get.
Good point on the college board already having your kid's name and address and scores of course.
I think the the fear that Naviance is going to impact credit ratings, etc. is a far-fetched, but who knows.
O
B
https://seattleducation.com/2017/10/03/naviance-not-so-transparent-cooking-up-data-starting-in-kindergarten/
"Naviance is a bundle of different applications and information is shared with third parties such as the Gallup Strengths Explorer, Roadtrip Nation, Sallie Mae, and TeenLife Media.
The Gallup Strength explorer was intended to be used by kids under the guidance of a parent or guardian to determine career paths. This isn't allowed with Naviance, kids do it alone."
https://achsstinger.com/5431/news/the-nuance-of-naviance/
Their partners:
https://www.naviance.com/partners
The bottom line -whether you want to believe it or not - is that data is the new coin of the realm. The more of it the better (meaning, someone makes money) and the earlier the better (that means kids). Naviance doesn't have all these partners for no reason.
Again, you can choose to believe there is no privacy anymore but I still believe that parents should have control over who has access to your child and your child's data.
But that's just me.
https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/
2017 enrolled freshmen at University of Washington, Seattle campus, for example, have 25%ile and 75%ile scores of 600 and 730, respectively, for SAT Math (somewhat of a guestimate for fit, depending on major). For Western Washington, the %ile scores are 530 and 630 for SAT Math; Stanford, 700 and 780. So if a student is scoring in the 600 range, Stanford might be a stretch in many ways, and they would possibly be in the lower quartile of enrolled UW students, but they would be closer to the average student at WWU. Under the "More Search Options" you can also search colleges with specified target SAT/ACT scores for the lower 25%ile of enrolled students, among other options.
college bound
navigating
The ACT and SAT scores and GPA are what Holy Names has paired with historical (prior 10 years?) HN applicant's enrollment (accepted, rejected or wait listed). My understanding is that info is associated to a student ID and not a student name. That is what I would want for all my kids and will be invaluable for them finding a good fit college. It is really slick in that it is plotted graph with gpa on one access and the the test score (which ever one you selected) on the other. We have reviewed universities on it with a friends account but those are HN girls so we have no idea if that would be the same for a GHS or IHS student. Could be but probably isn't. That said I am weighing opting out until jr/sr year or seeing what info is divulged
And College Navigator is good but nothing compared to Naviance. There is no GPA for instance. And the Common App doesn't list the UW.
APP Dad
Academic achievement stats for middle 50%:
High School GPA 3.70-3.95 (out of 4.0)
SAT Composite 1180-1370 (out of 1600)
SAT Math 600–720
SAT Evidence-Based Reading + Writing 590-680
ACT Composite 27-32
HF
Thanks HF, do appreciate it.
APP Dad
The rest of your comment kind of answered your own question. All that data sharing that you're talking about with PSAT and SAT is OPTIONAL. Your student doesn't have to fill out any of the personal-interest information, they don't have to give phone numbers or home address or any of that.
Naviance is designed so that all the student data flows directly from SPS databases to Hobsons and a host of other companies. This is why having the ability to opt out is important.
thanks, great site!
O
college bound
My students also thought this meant they had an email address, but it does not.
Now, if they were given a gmail account or something to use a program that's a totally different story of course.
Seattlelifer
- Quaker for Life