Tuesday, June 05, 2018

Tuesday Open Thread

Sad news to report; a Franklin High senior was shot and killed while hanging with friends in a park and telling ghost stories.  From the Franklin website:
As you are aware, soon-to-be Franklin graduate Ryan Dela Cruz, was fatally shot early Saturday morning. All accounts suggest he was at Martha Washington Park with friends and was mortally wounded by random gunfire.

Our students are heartbroken, as you can imagine.

Ryan’s father describes his son as a dreamer. Ryan had his heart set on joining the United States Marine Corps. He looked forward to being part of something bigger than himself and to serving both his community and country. Our students believe that Friday’s Call to Action helps to merge Ryan’s dream into Martin King’s dream of a nonviolent, beloved community.

In the true spirit of the Franklin mission, our students and staff plan to move through the grieving process in several ways. One of the ways in which they wish to honor Ryan’s life while also reinforcing our missing “toward a more peaceful and productive society” is a Call to Action to “keep the south end safe”. Far too many lives have been senselessly lost to gun violence.

This Friday, as part of our campus day celebration, we plan stand at MLK Blvd/Rainier Ave S intersection and extend down Rainier Ave with messages of nonviolence. We will be wearing orange ribbons and t-shirts, the national anti-gun violence campaign color, holding signs, and requesting all who pass by to proactively work toward greater south end safety. We anticipate that we will be lining the streets near 11:00 am.
 I hope to join this effort on Friday.

A really thoughtful and important piece of writing about why teachers are rising up from Known blog.  Not might be exactly for the reasons you might think.

The window for opting out of Naviance has opened.  From the district:

The opt out window for Fall 2018 began yesterday and will continue through 6/22. Families can enter the Source and update their preferences to opt out of Naviance. 

What's on your mind?

59 comments:

Anonymous said...

Why would I let SPS know if we are leaving? It's really none of their business.

Geez

Melissa Westbrook said...

To help a person who IS staying get off a waitlist. You know, to be nice.

Eric B said...

It kind of is SPS' business if you aren't going to show up in the fall, since they're staffing now for the numbers they're expecting. The more people that leave without telling SPS, the more staffing adjustments and/or requests for mitigation there will be in the fall. Staffing adjustments are no fun for anyone.

If you don't care about creating hassles for JSCEE (and that's pretty understandable), you can also think about the students on the waitlists. There's at least a possibility that waitlists will move and more students will get their desired assignment if people at the desired school are leaving and let SPS know sooner rather than later.

Anonymous said...

If SPS wants to encourage people to use the "won't be attending" form, they should do us the favor of adding a "why not?" question, plus room for an open-ended explanation. People frustrated by SPS might be more willing to bother filling out the form if they knew if gave them a way to vent--and data that could be used for analysis.

At first glance it sees absurd that SPS doesn't collect that information when you leave (or when they follow up with you after your kid doesn't show up in the fall, if they bother?). Then you remember that SPS really doesn't give a darn...which is why people often leave in the first place.

outta here

Anonymous said...

If I were going to try out another system I would not tell SPS until I'm sure the new system is better than SPS. Not telling them holds a spot, telling them does not hold a spot.

Geez

Transparency Please said...

Sadly, the minutes have not been updated since March.

https://www.seattleschools.org/cms/One.aspx?portalId=627&pageId=20963695#Audit & Finance Committee

The Audit and Finance Committee had a meeting on June 5th. According to the agenda, the committee will discuss internal audits. The following departments are to report to the board: Budget and Finance, Human Resource, Capital Projects and Curriculum and Instruction. I can't find the audits. Anyone?

https://www.seattleschools.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/District/Departments/School%20Board/committees/A&F/2017-18/June%205%202018%20Audit%20Quarterly_Agenda.pdf

Melissa Westbrook said...

I'll request them, Transparency.

GLP said...

Geez - If your child is at an option school, it's true that not telling them holds a spot. However, your child is guaranteed a spot at the attendance area school for your address. So, even if you withdraw if you re-enroll at some point they still get assigned to that school. No need to hold a spot.

Also, the idea that out of anger and frustration at SPS people might not be willing to inform the district they are withdrawing their child makes me sad. It just screws other kids. And the current system is frustrating. The waitlist dissolves on August 31st, and then when a student who is expected at a school doesn't show up when school starts, their spots is just vacant. Meanwhile it may have been really important to the next kid on the list for that school.

-GLP

Grouchy Parent said...

But if you move to Seattle in October you could just waltz in after the waitlists are dissolved and after the families who will end up not showing up have found whatever other arrangements and start school the next day. Easy peasy.

Owler said...

We are opting for private for middle school, and we know of at least three other families in our circle of friends who are doing the same. Like outta here, I would love to be able to tell the district why we are leaving, if only for the transparency to speak for the families we know who are staying but have similar concerns. Alas, I would also feel a greater urgency to tell SPS if I ACTUALLY thought that the waitlists would move or Staff would actually communicate why certain schools don't seem to have anyone move off the waitlist (like Whitman last summer). Waiting for a class of 30? Tell us!

z said...

Speaking of Naviance opt-out, which the Board insisted on, it looks like the district has done it again, and is trying to sneak this past parents. There is only a short window right now to opt your children out of this data mining grab by the Hobsons (Naviance) corporation.

The window to opt out appears to only be from June 4 through June 22, so the clock has already started! Parents, you should be complaining to the Board about this, because they dug in and insisted on allowing families to opt out, and a 2-week window in June is NOT good enough!

If you do not opt your children out, our district will be sending Hobsons, Inc. a variety of detailed information about your children, including demographic data (ethnicity, gender, etc.), academic records, and frankly we don't know what all else because the full extent of what will data be shared has not been made public. You can see some info here: SPS Naviance, including the very short opt-out window.

Unbelievable.

Anonymous said...

Our school made it sound like only juniors would be using Naviance next school year - will all HS students automatically be in the system this Fall, as the SPS website states, or do individual schools make this decision?

mixed messages

Anonymous said...

I read some of the discussions a few months ago about Naviance, but I’m a little puzzled. Is this part of the state graduation requirements? If so, why is there an opt-out, and if not, why is it not opt-in?

What are the pluses and minuses of either opting in or out?

- North central

Sonics said...

Here's an article a parent education activist in Colorado wrote up about student privacy and Naviance:
https://seattleducation.com/2017/10/03/naviance-not-so-transparent-cooking-up-data-starting-in-kindergarten/

Here's the letter Hobson's sent declaring their third party providers they share information with for Colorado. The list includes Gallup Strengths Explorer, Roadtrip Nation, Sallie Mae, and TeenLife Media. Apparently some information about all students is shared with those.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7epgdVXe0gKZ0Q4SFJadE0zdUNlLVVCVzB6M19qemxmcVI0/view

And then there are a bunch of add ons, including National Student Clearinghouse about which it says: "Naviance Alumni Tracker allows high schools to measure college enrollment and graduation rates for high school classes and individual students. This intelligence provides a benchmark for college readiness initiatives and insights about how to improve."

I find that one kind of creepy.

Anonymous said...

It seems like bit of paranoia to fear Naviance. This is what Navience requires:

from their privacy policy,
"
Grades K-2: Grade and teacher name
Grades 3-5: Last name, unique ID number, grade and teacher name
Grades 6-12: Last name, unique ID number, gender, class year and district campus
"

SSP can add other things and they mention ethnicity. And for college planning grades and transcripts they use that, so I've heard, to provide data on gpa's and test scores that kids need to get into colleges.

from SPS website,

"For students to utilize the college application support tools in Naviance, some student demographic and academic records need to be shared. This may include gender, ethnicity, and transcripts. Students will also have the opportunity to add information about themselves when developing their high school and beyond plan and using other college and career exploratory resources within the Naviance tool."

I know they have it at Holy Names and the parents love it.

15

Anonymous said...

I understand the paranoia. In my house, we try to limit screen time. However, at school, my elementary school kids have been signed up for various on-line, for-profit math programs without my consent. And my 4th grader now informs me that he has an email address through the school. It may be limited access - I don't know as the school has not informed me of anything about this. I would have liked to receive notice from the school if they feel the need to give my child an email account, and I would like to know how to access it. And no, poking around on the SPS website and asking other parents does not count as adequate notice nor proper dissemination of info from SPS.

So yes, I do not trust SPS to keep my child's digital data safe.

-NW

Transparency Please said...

Thanks, Melissa. I don't ever recall all department heads responding to an audit.

Melissa Westbrook said...

North Central, here's my original post on this subject.

http://saveseattleschools.blogspot.com/2017/11/naviance-i-have-some-questions.html#more

In rereading that thread, I note the support from Garfield counselors and I'll have to follow up on that.

Naviance is not part of any graduation requirement except that I believe districts have to prove some level of college/career counseling (which I suspect is very loose).

If you opt-in, you allegedly get a lot of info on colleges, scholarships, etc. Frankly, I'm not sure it's worth selling your kid's data (and that's what you are doing if you opt in because Naviance then gives that data to a plethora of groups/companies). I would suggest looking closely at what will be done with the data.

To note, staff really want the Board to okay more data. I will have more on this in my next thread on discussions at C&I including this one.

I will verify but I believe everyone is enrolled unless they opt out in two timeframes - the next two weeks until June 22nd and one week in September.

15, it's not paranoia. It's wanting to know who knows what about your child. And, per my first thread, Holy Names is NOT using Naviance as SPS will. I know because I called and talked to a very nice guidance counselor at Holy Names. They only use it for Common Application purposes.

NW, the new Technology Advisory Committee, which I am a member of, will try to find ways that make parents feel confident that they know what is happening in their child's school around use of technology and protecting student data.

I believe it is a parent's right to protect their child's data privacy. If that is not a worry to you, fine, but every has a different parenting outlook. I believe schools should be required to list what technology is being used in each classroom, what data a child puts in for each website, why this is being used and what outcomes the teacher will be able to provide to parents.

Sonics said...

Naviance isn't just one thing. Holy Names may subscribe to one portion of it and not use other features. Colorado law might mean that Naviance has to disclose certain things in Colorado but not necessarily in Texas.

The thing is, we're talking about minors. Some of these kids will be entering the job market in the mid 2030s, maybe even later if they get a graduate degree.

There are a lot of potential problems to SPS making decisions about what information gets shared about them. Especially for kids whose families are NOT in a good position to safeguard their data. If a kid has a parent who works in the tech sector and can deal with all the security settings and opt out forms and password managers and teaching kids to use screen names that are not their actual name and helping them learn how to set up secure passwords and live a relatively safe digital life, bully for those kids. But what about kids whose parents are recent immigrants who don't speak English or don't have internet access at home or are subsumed in mental health problems they are self-medicating with a drug addiction? What about those kids?

If Naviance is using an alumni tracker which will allow "high schools to measure college enrollment and graduation rates for high school classes and individual students," don't you think they're going to figure out that kids who flunk a class in 9th grade are less likely to do well in college? If you're the kid who does that but then turns things around, it's pretty easy to see this Naviance thing not panning out for you. Does Naviance want what's best for the students? Do they want them to become fulfilled, satisfied, productive adults? Or do they want to sell actuarial odds about whether the kid will be a good credit risk at the age of 25? How do you know? And although the Hobsons Corporation says one thing now, who's to say they won't change? After all, we're talking about the 2030s.

What I would like to know is if the district has considered this Naviance opt out window using Policy No. 0030. If there is discrimination in schools (high school -> college), then it seems like handing colleges specific information about which students are actuarially viewed as statistically less likely to succeed in college would go against Policy No. 0030 which is supposed to ensure all students regardless of race or class graduate from Seattle Public Schools ready to succeed in a racially and culturally diverse local, national, and global community.

It seems like there is a lot of leeway for the Hobsons Corp. to use this Naviance information to perpetuate discriminatory practices even well beyond a student's tenure within Seattle Public Schools. Because Naviance doesn't delete the data once the students graduate. They can use this data to measure college graduation rates for individual students based on data they collect as early as kindergarten. They think career planning starts in kindergarten. So, which kids look less interesting to future employers based on how they're doing in kindergarten? Do you really want the Hobsons Corporation making those calls? Maybe they have a kid's best interest at heart, or maybe they don't.

I suspect this crazy-short opt out window disadvantages some families in the district more than other families. What does Policy No. 0030 have to say about this?

Anonymous said...

Having recently gone through the college search and application process with next to no help from school or elsewhere (staff is stretched very thin), additional resources would have been very, very helpful. The high school counseling office was using paper request forms for transcript and letter of rec requests - there has to be a better way for both staff and students. Is there some middle ground where families can use Naviance for college info and ease of submitting application materials, while limiting other uses? How much control do families have over what info is uploaded for their child? As a side note, the majority of colleges to which our child applied used the Coalition App.

college bound

Melissa Westbrook said...

College Bound, good points. Except for opting out, parents have zero control over what info is uploaded on their child. I think what the Board should do is say to pilot Naviance for a year or two and see how useful it is with just a child's ID number and grade. If Naviance has no service with just those two pieces of info, how much more beyond gender or race/ethnicity?

Make no mistake, Naviance is in it to be able to make money selling kids data. How much that is worth to parents - and how much data will be out there in the ether that your child cannot get back - is the question.

Sonics said...

Only about 3/4 of Seattle students even enroll in college. What benefit does Naviance bring to the other 1/4? How long does Hobsons Corp. retain the personal information about students who never go to college? Could this information potentially be used to effect these students' credit rating when they're 30 years old?

Anonymous said...

Are they asking for the name associated to the grades and test scores? And Melissa how is it different than how Holy Names is using it?

I have seen it in action for private schools and it is a game changer when it comes to applying to college. It allows you to see who got in where from your school with comprable GPA/test scores. I have no understanding as to why you would use it before high school though.

APP dad

Jenny said...

First of all, let's talk equity. If 54% of kids are kids of color and all these parents are opting to send their kids to private schools that already use Naviance, then our kids are at a disadvantage. 1/4 of our kids may not go to college because they don't think they can. This tool will help them find scholarships and complete their college applications and send their transcripts all in one tool without having to navigate a bunch of systems they aren't familiar with.
Also staff will be able to see who applied and who hasnt and help them figure it out. Focusing their time on the kids that need it because they can find them instead of guessing or making assumptions. Lakeside, Lake Washington, Bellevue etc and schools across the country use this tool, Tech Seattle once again all scary and full of crap. You don't want to tell the district your leaving to a school who has this tool but want to act like you don't want the rest of us to have this tool. Leave then, and when you leave quite commenting on this blog about schools you aren't apart of. I want my kids to know what I don't know.

As for security if your kid has a phone with snap chat and Instagram your kids has no privacy so this really doesn't matter. That will impact job prospects, not that they applied to college in high school. Can we for once focus on something positive?

https://youtu.be/7wv5Oea3Fg8

Anonymous said...

Shoreline uses Naviance. This page explains it.

https://www.shorelineschools.org/Page/1404

This would be a welcome service for my student in seeing what other kids needed to gain acceptance to colleges.

BB

jb said...

I did a *lot* of research on Naviance a few months ago, and the situation is complex. I have a lot to say, so I’m going to attempt to address various issues in separate comments.

First, @mixed messages. It’s not just next year’s juniors. The eventual plan is that they enroll kids into these services starting in 8th grade. There was some discussion about waiting with the youngest kids, but I’m not sure where that stands at the moment. As far as I understand it, individual schools aren’t able to set their own rules because this is all being managed from downtown, from the main district student databases.

jb said...

@15. As others have mentioned, unfortunately, (and hopefully unintentionally) you’re spreading misinformation. When you say “the parents love it”, you need to understand that Holy Names is using only (or nearly so) the parts of Naviance which help with the college application process, like filling out the actual apps, sending transcripts and coordinating recommendation letters. Parents may love some parts of that, but it’s apples-oranges because that is only a tiny fraction of what SPS intends to use.

jb said...

@NW. You should be informing SPS dept of tech services if your 4th grader has been given an email without your consent. There are federal laws that prevent many types of services like this for children under the age of 13. Perhaps your child doesn’t quite understand the situation, but it’s quite possible they do. It’s also possible that the central office has vetted this program and feel like they have a handle on it, but many individual teachers and buildings are signing kids up for services that have not been authorized or vetted by downtown and they’re essentially just running rogue. This needs to be stopped, and the only way right now seems to be for parents to be tattletales and inform the administration downtown.

As for SPS “keeping your child’s digital data safe”, with the whole Naviance set of contracts, it’s not just SPS you have to trust, but more than 10 other companies that are all getting at least some amount of data directly from district databases. People should be wary of this entire package, and a 2-week window to opt-out in June is not okay. Everyone needs to pass the word quickly to all their friends and family to at least make sure everyone is going into this with their eyes wide open.

jb said...

Melissa and Sonics make a bunch of good points.

But Melissa, where is the information on another opt-out opportunity is September? The district page linked above is pretty clear about this only being available during the June 4 to June 22 window.

Also, why can't students opt themselves out? The system they've put in place requires parents to be fluent in English, have created a Source account, understand how to use it, and try to understand what this all means in a very short amount of time. Paper forms that come out during the fall would be a much better system, though there still should be more time for parents to understand what it all means.

Unfortunately, if the only data Hobsons gets is a child’s ID# and grade, then they won’t be able to use the tools that help with the actual college applications. It’s not clear to me how much that’s worth, but it should be something each and every family weigh for themselves, especially when that data is married to all the other personality profiling that SPS is contracting as part of this process.

Question: If parents don’t opt out, then we know some student data will be made available to the various companies participating in these contracts, however at that point, can your child refuse to sign in and take these surveys and other data grabs? Students should never feel compelled to engage in online surveys and such. I don’t know if students will be obligated to use all the tools if they don’t opt out.

jb said...

General info.

SPS is not just signing a single data sharing contract with Hobsons, but an entire set of contracts with a bunch of companies, around 10 of them total. The contracts are not necessarily the same as far as who gets what data, nor are the restrictions, retention policies, etc. all going to be the same. It’s complex.

The other companies involved are doing a lot of personality profiling (yes, really), among other more seemingly benign things like tracking service hours. Parents really need to understand that when personality profiles of your children are being created and used to help “guide” them to the “right” colleges where they can go to school with others that are “just like them”, that this is the worst kind of tracking. The products themselves use the “Do What You Are” theme. Yes, these companies want to decide what you should do with your life based on personality profiles when you’re 13 or 14 years old!

So what is Hobsons’ actual business model? Hobsons sells several different products, of which Naviance is only one. It’s part of their data collection branch. The other products, like Radius, Intersect, Starfish, are sold to colleges. So they can choose which of your kids will see advertisements for their schools. Essentially this is just like google or facebook business models, with the huge difference that they’re targeting children, and using services embedded in the school systems to make it “feel okay”. Hobsons may be telling the truth when they say they don’t actually sell your childrens’ data (directly), but at the end of the day Naviance exists to gather data about your children, and then sell access to their eyeballs.

Here are a couple quotes directly from their site:

“Delivering personalized, relevant information to the right student at the right time is crucial to finding best-fit students and keeping them interested.”

“It’s no longer enough to just increase the number of applications coming into your institution. It’s about making sure the right students are applying to ensure student success and retention through strategic enrollment management.”

For those who can’t read between the lines, this is tracking, plain and simple. I’m pretty sure most families in Seattle are opposed to that.

jb said...

@APP dad and @BB

Please note that what you’re talking about can be done without any identifying information, demographics, psychological profiles, etc. Interesting data can be gleaned in a fully anonymous way. I know, I’ve played around looking at the same charts. It doesn’t excuse all the other shady and morally-questionable stuff happening.

Anonymous said...

I just logged onto my source account to opt out of Naviance and there’s was no way to do this under “preferences”

Opting out

NO 1240 said...

It appears, via public comment, that President Harris has asked the city if Family and Education dollars would be used to support charter schools.

It should be noted that the city provided variances for charter schools and did so in a manner that is/was not consistent with Seattle's laws.

I don't expect transparency from the city.

Anonymous said...

Two questions, if anyone knows: My child is in 7th grade, so it looks like they will be automatically registered unless we opt out. Is there any benefit for 8th graders? If we opt out now, can we opt back in when the college application process happens?

TIA,
Krab

Melissa Westbrook said...

"And Melissa how is it different than how Holy Names is using it?"

Please read my comments in full; I said this.

I will just say again that your child's information is valuable; don't just give it away. But maybe they will come to you in 20 years and ask why you did that.

JB, I heard about the week in September at a committee meeting (and I'm trying to get that thread up but my iPad was wonky today.)

Director Burke seemed to think a one-time "do you want to opt out" is okay. I don't.
(Again, he said this at a committee meeting.)

Opting Out, that was supposed to be fixed. Try again, and if that doesn't work, let me know (sss.westbrook@gmail.com).

Krab, I believe this is year to year so you should be able to opt in when you want to.

Please note, you don't need Naviance to use the Common App.

Anonymous said...

Sorry yes I did read your comments and they shared nothing that was different from wet holy names was offering through the use of Naviance. Right now I'm getting a lot of boo boo boo and scare me scare me data data.

I do not work for Naviance; I'm concerned that my voice speech recognition has Naviance as an item. But right now if you're telling me student names arent identified to test scores / GPA. I don't give a flip.

Again I am glad I have walked the terrible terrible terrible John Stanford center nothing good comes from that but if you can't tell me that my child is going to be identified beyond the data I don't care.

I will welcome any information that says what we're offering and Seattle Public Schools is different from holy names u-prep SAS, Etc. And at that point I will ask why. I will ask superintendent Niland why. I will ask Michael Tully why.

We aren't a private school but if we're going to Breathe Again a private school tool that has been successfully placing University students then we should have the same tool.

app dad

Anonymous said...

Too much Reliance on voice to text above. And Merlot to lip editing.

We should have private school HS Naviance. If not why not? I thought that is what we got. Nyland should have to return any commissions he received.

app dad

Melissa Westbrook said...

Holy Names ONLY uses Naviance for the Common App. SPS will be using it for college and career guidance in addition to the Common App. Apples to oranges.

"But right now if you're telling me student names arent identified to test scores / GPA. I don't give a flip."

No idea what this means. No one has said anything about test scores.

Yeah, a real person is nearly always preferable to tech and your voice recognition comments show that.

Melissa Westbrook said...

Here's what you will see when you opt-out (the issues around opting out have been corrected at the district website):

"I do not want my student(s) to access Naviance. I understand that my student/student's data will not be loaded to Naviance and my student(s) will be given an alternative activity to meet the high school and beyond graduation requirement."

F&E Levy said...

Another news story about the increasing cost of the Family and Education Levy. The story indicates that voters may be feeling taxed out.


"It has been a taxing several weeks at Seattle City Hall. There have been rollouts of a new $636 million education levy, $200 Waterfront Improvement District, and the highly controversial head tax.
And it all comes on the heels of voters approving the expensive Sound Transit 3 (ST3) measure and $930 million transportation levy."

https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/seattle-residents-feeling-taxed-out/281-562082688

IMO, the city would be smart not to ask for an enormous increase. The city spent $81M to provide approximately 2000 students with prek. The cost of a comprehensive high school with 2000 students costs about $13M per year. The city must do a better job with taxpayer funds.

Regarding the upcoming SEA contract: Washington state lawmakers provided a framework for teacher salaries. The district will be fine next year, but the following year, the district is expecting a precipitous drop in revenue. The district and board would be smart to stay within the state framework. Otherwise, I can't imagine lawmakers would be sympathetic to offering the district additional funds.

F&E Levy said...

Signing the above comment.

Anonymous said...

@ jb, my thoughts exactly. If Naviance is going to be used to decide who is the "right" student for each college--or even which students are "right" for college in the first place--that is a form of tracking MUCH more so than is HCC (since in the latter students get access to the same curriculum regardless and also end up with the same class options as other students in high school).

If a low-performing student in SPS doesn't end up in HCC, that's not going to impact their college options. However, if a low-performing student is fully tracked via Naviance, it likely will.

I wonder when FWIW (or some version thereof) will chime in and lead the charge against Naviance?

all types

Tara S. said...

Everyone here is all freaking out about Naviance but no one is complaining about how we pay for the privilege to have the College Board sell out students information to colleges and private test prep companies and our students give away all their information to them during the PSAT and SAT. Why aren't we upset about that? How much do we spend on College Board testing while they turn around and give our kids info away to who knows what without anyone being worried about controlling that data. Name, address, test scores,college interest survey data, school id, phone number, social security number is optional, and there might be a option for military sharing, scholarship entities, Merit Scholar group, but you all are worried about a college planning tool?

Anonymous said...

I think Naviance helps students sort through the morass of options to find schools that specialize in what interests them. My kid's private school uses it for more than the common ap.

If it's "tracking" to tell a kid with a 3.0 and no activities that they won't be a good candidate for Harvard, then maybe that's ok.

asdf

Anonymous said...

When our child applied to colleges, we spent a great deal of time researching college data to find the best academic fit, as well as likelihood of acceptance and merit aid. By comparing average SAT/ACT and GPA for admitted students (nces.ed.gov website was useful) we could make a realistic list of college options. We were able to limit time spent on applications that were likely to be rejected (and be money misspent), and focus on schools that were more likely to want our child. If Naviance would have helped that process, then it sounds like a useful tool. And as Tara notes, the College Board has a good deal of info on students as well. What's not clear to me is just how much info SPS will be sharing with Naviance, and whether it's worth fretting about.

college bound

Melissa Westbrook said...

Tara, I certainly have called out College Board. I would think that because this discussion is about Naviance, people didn't feel compelled to bring in everything else. Doesn't mean they don't care.

Anonymous said...

@ college bound,

would you be so kind as to guide us through the .gov website you referenced?
I can't locate the SAT/GPA info for admitted students. That is what I'm interested in from Naviance like the Holy Names kids get.

Good point on the college board already having your kid's name and address and scores of course.

I think the the fear that Naviance is going to impact credit ratings, etc. is a far-fetched, but who knows.

O

B

Melissa Westbrook said...

More on Naviance:


https://seattleducation.com/2017/10/03/naviance-not-so-transparent-cooking-up-data-starting-in-kindergarten/

"Naviance is a bundle of different applications and information is shared with third parties such as the Gallup Strengths Explorer, Roadtrip Nation, Sallie Mae, and TeenLife Media.

The Gallup Strength explorer was intended to be used by kids under the guidance of a parent or guardian to determine career paths. This isn't allowed with Naviance, kids do it alone."


https://achsstinger.com/5431/news/the-nuance-of-naviance/

Their partners:

https://www.naviance.com/partners

The bottom line -whether you want to believe it or not - is that data is the new coin of the realm. The more of it the better (meaning, someone makes money) and the earlier the better (that means kids). Naviance doesn't have all these partners for no reason.

Again, you can choose to believe there is no privacy anymore but I still believe that parents should have control over who has access to your child and your child's data.

But that's just me.

Anonymous said...

At the College Navigator website, type in the name of the university and expand the "admissions" tab:

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/

2017 enrolled freshmen at University of Washington, Seattle campus, for example, have 25%ile and 75%ile scores of 600 and 730, respectively, for SAT Math (somewhat of a guestimate for fit, depending on major). For Western Washington, the %ile scores are 530 and 630 for SAT Math; Stanford, 700 and 780. So if a student is scoring in the 600 range, Stanford might be a stretch in many ways, and they would possibly be in the lower quartile of enrolled UW students, but they would be closer to the average student at WWU. Under the "More Search Options" you can also search colleges with specified target SAT/ACT scores for the lower 25%ile of enrolled students, among other options.

college bound

Anonymous said...

There really is a wealth of information on the College Navigator website - you can see the admit rate, as well as the percent of admitted who enrolled. Wondering if your child should take the ACT? There are regional differences in the % submitting ACT and/or SAT scores. More students at University of Michigan have submitted ACT scores than SAT scores (76% vs 53%) while at UW it's almost flipped (40% vs 75%).

navigating

Anonymous said...

Melissa,

The ACT and SAT scores and GPA are what Holy Names has paired with historical (prior 10 years?) HN applicant's enrollment (accepted, rejected or wait listed). My understanding is that info is associated to a student ID and not a student name. That is what I would want for all my kids and will be invaluable for them finding a good fit college. It is really slick in that it is plotted graph with gpa on one access and the the test score (which ever one you selected) on the other. We have reviewed universities on it with a friends account but those are HN girls so we have no idea if that would be the same for a GHS or IHS student. Could be but probably isn't. That said I am weighing opting out until jr/sr year or seeing what info is divulged

And College Navigator is good but nothing compared to Naviance. There is no GPA for instance. And the Common App doesn't list the UW.

APP Dad

Anonymous said...

@ APP Dad, if you're looking for UW admissions profile info, you can find it on their website at http://admit.washington.edu/why-uw/about-uw-university-of-washington/. You may already know this, but if not, here's what's posted re: the 2017 freshman class.

Academic achievement stats for middle 50%:

High School GPA 3.70-3.95 (out of 4.0)
SAT Composite 1180-1370 (out of 1600)
SAT Math 600–720
SAT Evidence-Based Reading + Writing 590-680
ACT Composite 27-32

HF

Anonymous said...


Thanks HF, do appreciate it.

APP Dad

z said...

Tara said: Everyone here is all freaking out about Naviance but no one is complaining about how we pay for the privilege to have the College Board sell out students information to colleges and private test prep companies and our students give away all their information to them during the PSAT and SAT.

The rest of your comment kind of answered your own question. All that data sharing that you're talking about with PSAT and SAT is OPTIONAL. Your student doesn't have to fill out any of the personal-interest information, they don't have to give phone numbers or home address or any of that.

Naviance is designed so that all the student data flows directly from SPS databases to Hobsons and a host of other companies. This is why having the ability to opt out is important.

Anonymous said...

@college bound,

thanks, great site!

O

Melissa Westbrook said...

APP Dad, good points and that's why the district chose Naviance over College Navigator.

Anonymous said...

College Navigator is free. It's a government operated website, not a service like Naviance. It's filled with useful data - you can look up anything from number of degrees awarded per major to crime stats - but it's only one tool. Different from Naviance, but useful nonetheless.

college bound

Anonymous said...

NW, re the email address - if this is your child needing to use @seattleschools.org following their district account login, it is not actually an email address. Inside the system - in the school - students login with a combination of the school prefix and their name, but externally they have to add @seattleschools.org

My students also thought this meant they had an email address, but it does not.

Now, if they were given a gmail account or something to use a program that's a totally different story of course.

Seattlelifer

Anonymous said...

The people posting on this blog should be embarrassed. More concerned about Naviance than the loss experienced by the Franklin community - not a single comment in support for an already marginalized community, for adolescents who have now lost a second member of their community during a single school year. Instead, the concern is about (maybe?) privacy for those who already have, and don't have to fear the gun violence of South Seattle. You all only speak for those who already have privilege, and simply speak their continued entitlement here. Concern over Naviance is more important, more worth talking about, than the loss of an SPS senior with who was about to graduate and enter the Marines? If he was white, and not Filipino (or from another marginalized community), would you be having a different discussion? This world would be a better place if you cared for ALL students instead of being so entitled and unable to admit, recognize, and face your own white fragility.
- Quaker for Life