Stripping Down Seattle Schools' High Schools
First I heard about overcrowded classrooms. We are coming up on that early October headcount so we can hope adjustments can be made. (Although if you have 35 students in a class, paring it down to 30 doesn't seem all that great.)
Second, I'm hearing about fewer foreign language choices.
Third, I'm hearing about fewer AP class choices.
Now I'm hearing SPS is NOT offering PSAT testing for 10th graders! It's such a good way to help students know what to expect (and where they are now) before they take the actual SAT as juniors.
Naturally, students whose parents can pay will send them somewhere for the test but what about "students furthest from educational justice?"
I did ask SPS Communications about making the PSAT unavailable for 10th graders but got no answer. It might be money but I guess we'll never know. (You could ask a director but I can guarantee they'd tell you some canned answer from administration.)
Comments
Thanks for the heads up on PSATs. You bet I’m going to pay for my kid to get a practice PSAT. Because when schools don’t meet your needs, that’s what you do.
Over It
Observer
I don’t disagree with you in concept, but I do think college alternatives are well-represented in the resources available online and the curriculum they offer. Obviously there is a strong relationship between SPS and Seattle Colleges with Running Start and the Promise Program https://www.seattleschools.org/academics/high-school-college-career/career-readiness/
It’s Weird
Mene Tekel
But what I like about AP classes is that all the other high school classes my kids have taken have been pretty weak- what SPS comes up with is very bad, generally, and getting worse(especially in sciences). AP is at least an outside entity guaranteeing a floor of quality since you have the test at the end that the kids either know the stuff for or don't. If SPS offered higher quality curriculum and some kind of accountability like the fancy private schools that are pulling back on AP classes I think it would be different, but the non-AP options we would have are pretty terrible.
The PSAT is a shot at free money, and though fewer and fewer SPS students qualify, seems a bummer to make that harder. I don't know if SPS students would want to go to the southeast for college, but if so it is a lot cheaper, and they continue to really like the SAT down there. Agree about west coast schools though.
-Blue Dog
I have to disagree. AP History classes provided my student with an opportunity to manage vast amounts of material. To this day, AP classes have helped him with college reading and writing assignments, papers etc.
AP Math classes allowed my student to skip some college level math classes and jump into higher level math classes in college. My student is taking classes that will incorporate vast amounts of data, problem solving etc. that will help solve our society's most vexing problems.
Lastly, the board and district have shown a complete disdain for advanced learning. AP classes assure some level of rigor.
Don't forget that the district's grading system has changed...every student gets an automatic 50%, every assignment and test is equally weighed etc. There is one middle school STEM class where students will pass...just by showing-up!!
I would like to see an audit of AP classes that have been cut.
We need an educated society and I no longer believe that SPS has the capacity to provide a level of education that will help solve our society's most difficult challenges i.e. future pandemics, climate etc.
observer
That’s a real tear down without any constructive ideas! Some families are stuck with the district so these rants are not so helpful. Sure, AP and SATs aren’t perfect but are they better than the same district generated curriculum for every student, regardless of capacity or skill? And universities are going SAT-blind or -optional, but I’m hearing it’s to your advantage to submit them anyways if they are impressive; it confirms your kid has the aptitude even if they went to a meh school district with grade inflation.
Ideas Needed
“UC will not consider SAT or ACT test scores when making admissions decisions or awarding scholarships. If you choose to submit test scores as part of your application, they may be used as an alternative method of fulfilling minimum requirements for eligibility or for course placement after you enroll.”
UW, Closer to home:
“In fact, when reading your application, the reviewers will not see your test scores, if provided. However, high test scores (1400 SAT/31 ACT or above) may be considered for a handful of students who may not otherwise be admitted. [] Moving forward, curriculum quality and performance in courses will remain the focus of our review of students’ academic preparation.”
If you’re privileged enough to be posting here, it is unlikely that your kid will be in the “handful of students who may not otherwise be admitted.” I’m reading it: minority, underprivileged, or on an athletic team.
SPS, in true form, in response to dropping the standardized tests which show privilege, is also systematically removing course offerings which also shows privilege. They already essentially dropped grades. The SPS goal is to make, on paper, every SPS graduate as indistinguishable from every other. No one will have one tiny bit of privilege over another. Skills and test scores will not matter.. No defining test scores, no defining grades, no defining coursework (to thwart UW). The only thing a parent can do for students is running start. And that is an extremely impoverished education at its core. It devalues the social growth considerations of students, the special trainings and expertise of high school teachers, and the basic joy and camaraderie possible in high school. It also leaves out a whole bunch of students who can’t do it for any reason.
Unfortunately, the private schools are all that’s left, and it isn’t a rant. It’s a fact.
observer
Try recruiting and supporting school board candidates.
Yes, more colleges and universities are turning away from the SAT but not all of them. The ability for younger.motivated students to take a practice test is a good thing especially for those who would be first generation to higher ed.
Plus the ability to take the test during the school day rather than going to a further away high school on a a Saturday would seem to service those "furthest from educational justice."
Abosolutely, all kids do not need to go to college. But many will; the district seems less and less interested in those kids.
Observer-I agree about grade inflation, but not sure if it’s any worse than other districts. Certainly, we’ve been hearing about it at the university level for years. -FormerTeacher
And
"..If you’re privileged enough to be posting here, it is unlikely that your kid will be in the “handful of students who may not otherwise be admitted." what the heck does that mean? This is an open forum at no cost.
Hey thanks for supporting public education guys!
Not
SP
Your characterization of Running Start as
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"an extremely impoverished education at its core. It devalues the social growth considerations of students, the special trainings and expertise of high school teachers, and the basic joy and camaraderie possible in high school."
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is so alien to my daughter's experience, in all aspects, that it makes me wonder if you don't have a personal axe to grind. She took a full course load from Day One, made the Dean's List at North, earned a full scholarship to UW, and made the Dean's List there. She said Running Start was the best thing she ever did, and that it freed her from all the bullshit that goes with high school.
She took all her classes at North early in the morning, then went over to Hale to hang out with her buddies and do all the extracurriculars. So she got all the social life at Hale, made new friends at North, and got real, transferable college credit, at a higher level, with better instruction and a higher-level peer group, than AP classes would have gotten her.
Parents who are faced with these questions need to listen to college counselors, not high school counselors. The UW counselor told us in no uncertain terms that community college credits counted for way more than high school AP courses did. We are eternally grateful that we took his advice.
-- Ivan Weiss
AP doesn't have to be expensive. For example for American history the American YAP is a free online textbook that can be used for AP. Generally because AP is so well defined there are many many online resources making AP great. And you can go into the library and get an AP book, or buy a used book online, because the course contents are very standardized for most classes and in many cases different books cover exactly the same topics.
But there are multiple obvious reasons the district doesn't like this. The first is that Seattle Public Schools can't decide what to teach. For example, at our neighborhood high School, the teacher spent much of the year in US history teaching about race. Much of what would have been covered in an AP US History course was ignored. The college board would not have approved the Seattle syllabus and the students wouldn't pass the AP test anyway.
Another problem with AP is that it's too hard for many students. An AP class must use a college equivalent book or the college board won't approve the syllabus. There's no point in a student that can't pass a regular high School class taking an AP class. I took non AP calculus when I was in high school, and had to take calculus again in college because the high school class was completely watered down.
Third it's no secret that based on ospi reporting, there are differences in test scores based on different races in Seattle public schools. If Seattle Public Schools offers AP as an option, different students will opt in based on race. The AP classes will then appear segregated. The only way to end this segregation is to remove the AP option and make everybody take the same class.
The argument that lakeside doesn't use a AP is silly. Even at Lakeside for many of the stem classes there are three different tracks, regular, accelerated, and honors. Seattle's goal is to get rid of the tracking, whereas even Lakeside has tracking.
Second many Lakeside students take AP tests and Lakeside offers AP testing. The content in many Lakeside AP equivalent classes is at the same level as the college level materials required by the College Board . Lakeside simply doesn't have the syllabuses approved by the college board so that it can teach what it wants which means there is not perfect alignment and students may have to study additional topics if they want to take the AP tests. But unlike with Seattle public schools, the goal is not to they have everybody take the same course.
After 4 years of a world language at Lakeside students will generally be able to pass the AP test for the language, regardless of whether the class was called AP. The same is not necessarily true for Seattle public schools.
The point is, the goal of Seattle Public Schools is to desegregate the classes. The only way to desegregate the classes when there are racial differences and students can opt into a class, is to get rid of the more difficult classes.
World languages has a similar problem in that it's an elective that students can choose, and students of different races choose differently. The only way to desegregate these classes is to eliminate those choices that are only being selected by certain races.
1. AP classes can earn credit that can be very helpful in college. The credit could be for a specific class, or it could be for a credit that's just a placeholder (eg Bio 100 might not exist at a school, but if you get the score you need on the AP, then you get the credit).
These credits can be very helpful. In some majors, getting done in four years is very hard. With AP credits, students may have extra slots.
These credits can also enable students to skip large intro classes and move into higher classes sooner.
At some programs in some colleges, the standard 4 year track assumes students have had more than just an intro high school class. An example is the Chem needed for engineering at Montana State U.
The tests I've seen that are most helpful: either of the English classes, world language, AP US History, AP World History, AP Psych, AP Government, and for STEM AP Chem, any of the AP Physics, and AP Calc (either). AP Bio, AP Human Geography are not all that helpful. Students may still want to retake the class that they get the credit for, because at some schools the content can be very different than the AP content.
2. Testing: having PSAT in 10th is helpful as a warmup. Yes, some colleges are test blind. Yes, some are test optional.
But here's the reality: college admissions is very subjective, especially for direct admit into competitive majors such as engineering or comp sci. The only options some students may want for some majors may be at test blind schools that are incredibly competitive for that major (UW), or at colleges that are not test blind / test optional.
Here's another reality: some students have had a very rough past few years. Their grades may have tanked. A test score can give a student a way to demonstrate their skills.
There are some schools that do use test scores to allocate merit aid, or for admission into specific programs.
The bottom line is keep your options open. SPS is not doing students a service with these choices.
And one other comment: finding AP test locations if you're studying outside is very hard. There are some students who self study, or take an AP class online but need a school location where they can take the test. So this hurts more than just SPS students.
SP